Three Hopes surpasses 1 million units shipped

[Fabulously Olivier]

Just now, Florete said:

Oh, no, I was just being facetious.

Cool. I factually believe you. 

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

(yes - the post-Awakening time is now greater than the pre-Awakening time, don't you feel old yet) 

Huh? No its not. 1990-2012 = 22 years. 2012-2022=10 years. Even Radiant Dawn isn't at the half way point of the series history yet.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Huh? No its not. 1990-2012 = 22 years. 2012-2022=10 years. Even Radiant Dawn isn't at the half way point of the series history yet.

Oh, right. The bit of info I saw was the western timeline of the series, my bad.

 

FE7 to Awakening is shorter now (by less than a year) than Awakening to now.

[ZeManaphy]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:53 PM, Florete said:

While I can't say I'm surprised, it's the first time that I kinda wanted a Fire Emblem title to bomb. That's petty, I know, but Three Hopes is the first game with Fire Emblem in the title to ever give me buyer's remorse, and this probably means we're never seeing a true sequel to FEW1, which was just so much better imo.

Not to join the "criticizing you " parade, but I'm surprised that you even bought Three Hopes since it was clearly a Three Houses love letter; and the fact you didn't enjoy Three Houses. I'm also shocked to see you FEW 1 was better, from what I've spoken too with my friends, they believe Three Hopes is vast improvement over the original, myself included.  

[Florete]

11 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

Not to join the "criticizing you " parade, but I'm surprised that you even bought Three Hopes since it was clearly a Three Houses love letter; and the fact you didn't enjoy Three Houses. I'm also shocked to see you FEW 1 was better, from what I've spoken too with my friends, they believe Three Hopes is vast improvement over the original, myself included.  

I liked the characters in Three Houses (one of the only things about it I did like), and I have liked the Warriors games I've played, so it looked like a good situation, despite my other hang-ups. Your friends are free to their own opinions, of course, but that's anecdotal. I find the gameplay in Three Hopes far more generic and spammy.

And don't worry, your post is waaay less infuriating than the others I've recently had the misfortune of responding to.

[Fabulously Olivier]

20 hours ago, Tediz64 said:

I'm so glad to hear another person is near the same boat as me. I remember back being 100+ hours in and I read some people's posts in these threads suggesting they were already done with multiple play throughs/routes and I was just baffled. My first route (Scarlet/Recruit Byleth) took somewhere between 170-190 hours and my 2nd run (Azure/no Byleth) was at 130-ish hours. Now I'm on my 3rd run (Azure/Recruit Byleth) and I'm past chapter 10. I was just shocked other people could move so fast thru the game. But then again I took a break for two weeks after the game came out and then when I was back I was doing research so I can help fill some pages on the wiki. In fact I'm still doing that but more slowly now. 

 

I have to say, I'm still disappointed these games sell well, but the effort into these games being made so is piss-poor. Like can't Koei or IS do better? I noticed they recycled so much. Like for example during the meals, most the guys tend sit the same all hunched over with just a few sitting upright and during the tea-time/expeditions the little gestures between the girls are almost all recycled. I tend to notice the effort as far as animations go in these games is absolutely non-existent. With less than about 6 variations; they stand the same, they sit at the dinner table the same, they wave their hands the same during tea time, during important discussions revolving around the story its always just them all standing in a little cluster taking turns talking and my list of criticism goes on. Does nobody else notice they recycle their assets so much? What can't they animate them sitting at a conference table discussing these things or something different? Like for example an informant walking up to Hubert and handing him a folder he opens up and reads the content of a report. I remember vividly in 3 Houses, after a few select cutscenes such as after the mock battle of Gronder Field, before the ball the night you promise to reunite, and some more, everyone just randomly makes a step sound effect and they appear out of nowhere surrounding you and the house leader and the cutscene starts just like that. They couldn't even animate them walking down the hall or turning a corner before arriving to talk with you. Don't get me started on how they walk away so easily. They literally pivot their body and take one step at most and because of the camera angle they get offscreen just slightly and then they are gone. You don't contine to hear footsteps or see their back, let alone an actual walking animation. Only a step and turn/pivot animation. They simply use clever camera angles to take people on/off screen when needed and that's it. An even more glaringly obvious flaw is the the always empty spaces where they talk. Take chapter 8/9 for example when rescuing Dimitri. You actually get an anime style cutscene and see him sitting on a bed, but when screen goes black and returns back to the normal style cutscenes they appear in a empty room with no furniture and are all standing in a little cluster talking. I'm just gonna stop there. I feel like it's pointless to bring this up since neither of these studios will ever rectify these low budget animations/scenes. It just bothered me so much to see so little effort. Even FEW1 was like this. Only the anime style cutscenes bring it to life and even then, it's still low quality compared to other game franchises. 

 

There is a reason why both FEW1 and this one took up less than 15-ish GB each meanwhile a game modified greatly like The Witcher 3 still ended up taking more than 32 GB. Heck even some Tales games were larger than these and they hard more variety to their animations. I don't think these games should be priced at 60 like those other ones when they clearly exert significantly less effort and are lower quality. Dragon's Dogma is less than $60 and had richer environments/scenes. I definitely experienced massive buyer's remorse with this game and outside of the Tellius games being port overed for the switch, I'm dropping this franchise. As far as spin offs go. Unless they price them appropriately at $30 or 40 they won't get me again with these low quality games. I expect more and that isn't unreasonable. Especially when other games franchises are priced at $60 and the effort in them matches or justifies that tag. I'm sad about this decision cause it'll mean less exposure to the stories I really like but Nintendo needs to step up with quality if they want to get away with $60 tags. Emphasis on spin offs. I'll stick with the core series

Ah, yes. The company that isn't stuffing its games with hundreds of dollars of microtransactions is the one that needs to justify its $60 price tag. Yep. Definitely.

 

Obsessing over graphics and animations is how games got shitty and low quality in the first place. You're asking for a niche franchises to misallocate their limited resources to eye candy, at the cost of everything else. And if that's really your issue, aim your ire at the franchises that actually DO make enough money to invest top dollar in presentation (looking at you, Pokemon).

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Ah, yes. The company that isn't stuffing its games with hundreds of dollars of microtransactions is the one that needs to justify its $60 price tag. Yep. Definitely.

 

Obsessing over graphics and animations is how games got shitty and low quality in the first place. You're asking for a niche franchises to misallocate their limited resources to eye candy, at the cost of everything else. And if that's really your issue, aim your ire at the franchises that actually DO make enough money to invest top dollar in presentation (looking at you, Pokemon).

I don't think modern Fire Emblem's presentation issues are down much to budget. More will. They just don't want to make more dynamic looking cutscenes. Everyone standing around is good enough for them and they expect it to be good enough for us. As was pointed out in the tables thread, they have animations for characters sitting at tables and they just plain don't use them for anything other than transitional cutscenes. It doesn't take a big budget for graphics to make a cinematic looking game. Look at the first Metal Gear Solid. The characters didn't even have faces yet the game still put effort into have actual presentation.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Jotari

[Tediz64]

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Ah, yes. The company that isn't stuffing its games with hundreds of dollars of microtransactions is the one that needs to justify its $60 price tag. Yep. Definitely.

 

Obsessing over graphics and animations is how games got shitty and low quality in the first place. You're asking for a niche franchises to misallocate their limited resources to eye candy, at the cost of everything else. And if that's really your issue, aim your ire at the franchises that actually DO make enough money to invest top dollar in presentation (looking at you, Pokemon).

Making excuses for them simply enables them or more accurately let's them continue to get away with it. For the record, I don't play games with micro transactions much at all either. It wasn't until after I think Tales of Xillia (cause Symphonia and Abyss didn't have them)that they started adding dlc geared at aesthetics and some post game stuff. And Dragon's Dogma has only cosmetic stuff as well which I didn't buy. 

Referring to it as "misallocate" and "eye candy" shows what your expectations of a game are and priorities which are subjective and don't match with what segment of the population does care about stuff like what im talking about. So before you go invalidating how we feel about what we want, keep in mine we also purchase these games so these studios are absolutely obligated hear us out. If they continue to fail to satisfy us, then it shouldn't come as a shock or surprise when we pull our funding and buy games from companies that do listen to us. If you are so eager to brush us aside, don't ponder or wonder why the game will suffer to some degree in the sales later on down the line. I'm also not asking them to sacrifice anything in exchange. You stating that is how they got low quality in the first place says quite a bit. I most definitely won't bring into this thread a discussion of game production and the semantics that follow but please don't diminish, dismiss, minimize, or downplay other people's feelings or expectations. Our dollar is equal to yours and we want to be happy playing these games just as much as you do. 

And again for the record, me and thousands quite possibly millions are in fact on serebii and bulbapedia (pokemon sites that have forums) making sure they know where we stand regarding pokemon's game quality. I have plenty of "ire" to go around (as you referred to it as).

What I'm curious to know is why you want to deflect criticism from this game franchise? Why are you dismissing it? Are you an employee of IS or Koei? Are you obligated in some way to nip in the bud any discontent? Also why the sarcasm in your first paragraph? Cause I can't think of any other interpretation when you said "Yep. Definitely." I don't think it is appropriate to come into these threads and conduct yourself in such a way. It isn't just immature but it also seems hostile or like as if you are trying to antagonize people. It may not be worthy of grabbing a mod's attention but it will quickly spread that you don't have good social etiquette. Then you'll find less people wanting to interact with you. I've never once done anything to otherwise slight you in any kind of way, but I'm not going to respond anymore if you just plan on downplaying what I say like it doesn't matter. 

"Niche" (as you referred to it as) communities thrive on word of mouth recommendations and positive reviews so that the game can score sales. By saying good stuff, a friend may be inclined to buy a game and this is what leads not just sales but people discovering a game they like. This snowballs. A few youtubers show charts in their videos as well explains the psychology of why games like 5 nights at Freddie's, Angry birds, and so forth saw such success and widespread fame. Many game companies even admitted to watching Pewdiepie and a few other influencers so they could replicate the successful results like Fall Guys had. Obscure games like Fire Emblem (which has become less obscure as time has shown) don't have some of these perks but do in fact benefit the players themselves at least saying good stuff....okay so I was mid typing this paragraph and realized this could take a while to illustrate my point. But instead I'll assume you are not only educated enough to see where I was going with that point, but also understand the importance of why they need to deliver on our expectations. All it takes is a few hundred people to be unhappy. Those people will in turn tell theirs friends not to bother with a certain game which will lead to even exponentially more people not possibly buying it. Which could be all it takes to ax a game's success or prospect at sequels. 

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Oh, right. The bit of info I saw was the western timeline of the series, my bad.

 

FE7 to Awakening is shorter now (by less than a year) than Awakening to now.

Funnily enough the west's first taste of Fire Emblem was actually the anime which was localized into English in 1997.

[MagicCanonBalls]

On 8/21/2022 at 1:43 PM, Tediz64 said:

And again for the record, me and thousands quite possibly millions are in fact on serebii and bulbapedia (pokemon sites that have forums) making sure they know where we stand regarding pokemon's game quality. I have plenty of "ire" to go around (as you referred to it as).

Not the guy you are replaying to but this always gets me a little bit furious when people like you just go and assume your idea of standard and quality is universal. Sword and Shield is probably my 2nd fav pokemon game right after Black and White 2 because of how simple it is. Lack of maze and dungeons was listed as negative point but for me it was a HUGE QoL improvement. I absolutely do not want the "improvement" some of these fans suggested. That's why I didn't buy Diamond or Arceus because that is definitely not what I want in Pokemon games. Witcher 3 was regarded as one of the best RPG and boast about it's meaningful side quests and super long story, but to me that sounds exhausting. I want game that I can play like once every two week without looking at guide everytime I boot up because I forgot where was I. For me Pokemon is the comfort game that I absolutely love. You asked why he deflect criticism, but I want to ask you instead: why can't you just find something else to "fix" or "improve" if you got so many bright ideas? Same with this Warrior franchise, I like how braindead it is to just smash buttons. I can skip the story and watch them on youtube on 2.x speed on my free time. I mean those things that you listed are like the least of my priority of what I am looking for in a Warriors game. If every game franchise become some "masterpiece" like Zelda or Witcher 3 then wouldn't it be super boring? To use your own words, please don't diminish, dismiss, minimize, or downplay lazy gamers like me who just wants some bare minimum game to have maximum fun. My dollar is equal to yours and I want to be happy playing these games without using what's left of my braincell after a long day/week.

[ZanaLyrander]

Not to step into the middle of a shitstorm, but I must admit, of all the things to complain about in Three Hopes, the visuals wouldn't have even occurred to me to mention. I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that visuals in games have reached the point of diminishing returns, at which making them look better isn't cost effective, the amount of effort and money involved is disproportionate to the increase in entertainment value you'd see as a result. Sure, Three Hopes could certainly look better, but honestly, I'd rather see that effort and funding directed elsewhere, there are other improvements that I'd consider far more valuable and far easier to achieve. The game looks good enough, and further improvement wouldn't have a significant impact on my enjoyment of the game.

If I were to suggest improvements to Three Hopes, it would be things like increased class diversity, more movesets, making abilities and weapon attributes less obtuse in terms of the magnitude of their effects, more customizability for weapons, more support conversations, stronger endings, things like that. The visuals wouldn't even make the list. There are plenty of areas I can see for improvement in Three Hopes, but visual improvements, while certainly very possible, would not be high on my list of priorities. I'm not saying the criticisms of the visuals and animations are invalid or not worthwhile, just that I don't really understand the focus on it. A game that looks really good right now probably won't look very good ten or twenty years from now, while a game with enjoyable gameplay and an engaging story will have people coming back to replay it multiple console generations later. Making things look nice is not without value, but imo it should be lower on the priority list than many gamers and game companies place it.

[Archeleon]

Am I the only one that thinks it's silly to come to the Three Hopes-specific section of the forum, go into a congratulatory post within it and reply that you didn't like the game? Perhaps a lapse of judgment? 

[ZanaLyrander]

1 minute ago, Archeleon said:

Am I the only one that thinks it's silly to come to the Three Hopes-specific section of the forum, go into a congratulatory post within it and reply that you didn't like the game? Perhaps a lapse of judgment? 

I... didn't want to say it, since I didn't want to come across as dismissive, but it did seem an odd place for this kind of negative feedback. It's especially odd seeing such negativity coming from people who by their own admission have put hundreds of hours into the game. It's like seeing negative steam reviews from people with hundreds or even thousands of hours spent in game. It's certainly valid to criticize even games you enjoy, and the ability to critique even things you enjoy is valuable. But declaring an entire game poor quality after literally hundreds of hours spent in game does kinda make my head spin. If the game is poor quality, why spend so much time playing it? I've certainly encountered games I consider poor quality, and usually I don't play them for very long, they're not fun, I go back and play something better instead. I would certainly never sink hundreds of hours into a game if I wasn't having fun.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 hour ago, ZanaLyrander said:

I... didn't want to say it, since I didn't want to come across as dismissive, but it did seem an odd place for this kind of negative feedback. It's especially odd seeing such negativity coming from people who by their own admission have put hundreds of hours into the game. It's like seeing negative steam reviews from people with hundreds or even thousands of hours spent in game. It's certainly valid to criticize even games you enjoy, and the ability to critique even things you enjoy is valuable. But declaring an entire game poor quality after literally hundreds of hours spent in game does kinda make my head spin. If the game is poor quality, why spend so much time playing it? I've certainly encountered games I consider poor quality, and usually I don't play them for very long, they're not fun, I go back and play something better instead. I would certainly never sink hundreds of hours into a game if I wasn't having fun.

 

1 hour ago, Archeleon said:

Am I the only one that thinks it's silly to come to the Three Hopes-specific section of the forum, go into a congratulatory post within it and reply that you didn't like the game? Perhaps a lapse of judgment? 

Yes. It's in remarkably poor taste, and also in remarkably poor taste to call the other person infuriating for taking issue with it. 

 

There's a reason I don't hang out in the SoV board. I think it's a bad game. There's a reason why I don't post in Fates. I think it's a bad game. There's a reason I quit posting in Heroes after I stopped playing it. It IS a bad game. I have nothing positive to contribute there, and my input is not wanted.

 

The boards exist for those who care to discuss the game, not to stamp your feet and wish for a game to flop.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Florete]

4 hours ago, Archeleon said:

Am I the only one that thinks it's silly to come to the Three Hopes-specific section of the forum, go into a congratulatory post within it and reply that you didn't like the game? Perhaps a lapse of judgment? 

It's a forum. People are going to say what they feel about a subject. You can think it's silly all you want, and perhaps you're right, but it's always happened and will continue to happen.

I, at least, would have only had one or two posts in this thread instead of...however many it is now if a couple specific individuals hadn't been so contentious with me.

4 hours ago, ZanaLyrander said:

It's especially odd seeing such negativity coming from people who by their own admission have put hundreds of hours into the game. 

Not sure if you're meaning to refer to me or not, but I've spent far less than even one hundred hours in the game.

3 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Yes. It's in remarkably poor taste, and also in remarkably poor taste to call the other person infuriating for taking issue with it. 

I take issue with your horrible attitude towards any discontent with the game. Seriously, I had respect for you, but it's like you became a different person in some of these responses, like you just can't handle people not liking any aspect of a Warriors game that you liked. You can take issue with me airing certain grievances here instead of somewhere else without being as immature about it as you've been.

[ZanaLyrander]

13 minutes ago, Florete said:

Not sure if you're meaning to refer to me or not, but I've spent far less than even one hundred hours in the game.

No, I was not referring to you, but Tediz64 mentioned that he evidently spent about 300+ hours on his first couple of runs of the game, and yet also said the game was 'piss-poor quality', which I admit I find a bit confusing, as I would expect one to come to that conclusion well before that point, and then stop playing.

While I can understand and even agree that some of the responses in this thread to the negativity have been perhaps a bit too hostile, I can also understand the frustration: this was clearly a thread intended as a celebration of the financial success of a game people here enjoyed. Having numerous people come into this thread bemoaning said success and expressing a desire for the game to fail... I mean, again, I agree that perhaps some of the responses were overly hostile, but if you come into a celebration specifically to complain about the very thing people are celebrating, it's perhaps foolish to expect a receptive audience. It does come across as intentionally trying to rain on the parade.

Edited August 22, 2022 by ZanaLyrander

[Fabulously Olivier]

23 minutes ago, Florete said:

It's a forum. People are going to say what they feel about a subject. You can think it's silly all you want, and perhaps you're right, but it's always happened and will continue to happen.

I, at least, would have only had one or two posts in this thread instead of...however many it is now if a couple specific individuals hadn't been so contentious with me.

Not sure if you're meaning to refer to me or not, but I've spent far less than even one hundred hours in the game.

I take issue with your horrible attitude towards any discontent with the game. Seriously, I had respect for you, but it's like you became a different person in some of these responses, like you just can't handle people not liking any aspect of a Warriors game that you liked. You can take issue with me airing certain grievances here instead of somewhere else without being as immature about it as you've been.

For what it's worth, I'm going through a lot at the moment, and some of that is bleeding through. Serious family emergency. 

 

But also, you started that, you got smarmy with me, and you threw out insults as well. You called me out further than is necessary, and on things that do not matter to the discussion. It's a two way street, and I have the right to reflect that whole sentiment. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Florete]

2 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

While I can understand and even agree that some of the responses in this thread to the negativity have been perhaps a bit too hostile, I can also understand the frustration: this was clearly a thread intended as a celebration of the financial success of a game people here enjoyed. Having numerous people come into this thread bemoaning said success and expressing a desire for the game to fail... I mean, again, I agree that perhaps some of the responses were overly hostile, but if you come into a celebration specifically to complain about the very thing people are celebrating, it's perhaps foolish to expect a receptive audience. It does come across as intentionally trying to rain on the parade.

I get what you're saying, and I have been in your position before, but that's just how things are. It's a public forum, people will state their thoughts, and not all of them will be positive. And like I said in my previous post, if people had just left me alone, I'd have one or two posts in this thread and that would be it. People are fully within their rights to respond to me, of course, but I am also within my rights to respond back, so if people don't want to see continued discontent, sometimes the best option is to just leave it (and if you care to go back and check, you'll notice that all of these lines of conversation have ultimately ended with me choosing to disengage).

I don't know, maybe I'm just jaded from being a part of online communities like this for so long.

3 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

But also, you started that, you got smarmy with me, and you threw out insults as well. You called me out further than is necessary, and on things that do not matter to the discussion. It's a two way street, and I have the right to reflect that whole sentiment.

Sigh...No, I'm not doing this with you. I can see where it will go and it's far from pleasant.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Archeleon said:

Am I the only one that thinks it's silly to come to the Three Hopes-specific section of the forum, go into a congratulatory post within it and reply that you didn't like the game? Perhaps a lapse of judgment? 

Eh, if someone feels it's bad the game shipped over a million copies then they're entitled to feel that way.

[Tediz64]

Okay so i have to break up this response into sections to make sure i don't create any kind of misunderstanding. I want to make sure we are on the same page and not confused about what is being said and how it should be interpreted

17 hours ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

Not the guy you are replaying to but this always gets me a little bit furious when people like you just go and assume your idea of standard and quality is universal. Sword and Shield is probably my 2nd fav pokemon game right after Black and White 2 because of how simple it is. Lack of maze and dungeons was listed as negative point but for me it was a HUGE QoL improvement. I absolutely do not want the "improvement" some of these fans suggested. That's why I didn't buy Diamond or Arceus because that is definitely not what I want in Pokemon games. Witcher 3 was regarded as one of the best RPG and boast about it's meaningful side quests and super long story, but to me that sounds exhausting. I want game that I can play like once every two week without looking at guide everytime I boot up because I forgot where was I. For me Pokemon is the comfort game that I absolutely love. You asked why he deflect criticism, but I want to ask you instead: why can't you just find something else to "fix" or "improve" if you got so many bright ideas? Same with this Warrior franchise, I like how braindead it is to just smash buttons. I can skip the story and watch them on youtube on 2.x speed on my free time. I mean those things that you listed are like the least of my priority of what I am looking for in a Warriors game. If every game franchise become some "masterpiece" like Zelda or Witcher 3 then wouldn't it be super boring? To use your own words, please don't diminish, dismiss, minimize, or downplay lazy gamers like me who just wants some bare minimum game to have maximum fun. My dollar is equal to yours and I want to be happy playing these games without using what's left of my braincell after a long day/week.

What i'm not suggesting is every game become some materpiece. But for nintendo to price their games appropriately. I understand everyone plays games for different reasons, with different play styles, and certain moods. I grasp that. But you tell me how a game with a significant amount of effort exerted into it's creation (and any person can objectively see that regardless if the said individual likes the game or not) is price tagged $60 and then another game with a fraction of that effort is also priced at $60 and it can be considered okay/fair. They literally recycled a bunch of assests. They have all the engines and coding they could have pulled from two Hyrule Warrior games and their previous FEW game. Combine that with all the models already being in place that they pulled from Fire Emblem 3 Houses. If i had to try to come up with a metaphor or analogy for what they did, it was like they went to a junkyard, bought a car, slapped a fresh coat of paint on it and maybe changed out the interior seats but left the engine and most of the other parts required for it to run all still in tact and then sold it to you. As opposed to from the ground up, go to a factory and start the assembly line and literally put a new car together with not only all new parts, a new body frame, and interior. The Witcher 3 (complete edition with all DLC) for reference is $60 while the base game is $40. This Fire Emblem Warriors 3 Hopes is also $60. Are you actually okay with being ripped off like that? When they clearly didn't even put effort into making their product. This game at most should be like $30. The only "new" section/part they couldn't recyle was battlefields which they only gave us i think either 13 or 14. All the side quests are chopped maps from the whole map itself. Also deflecting me by saying "why can't you just find something else to fix or improve if you go so many bright ideas" totally reeked of condescension. So not only did you miss the point of what i was trying to convey but when you couldn't even refute me, you patronized me. Here i am acting in a manner/asking for what is in your best interest, and you mock me? Your account and existence on these forums contradicts your very own statements. This website is primarily for a strategy game that requires thinking (not being braindead) and despite the fact that pokemon somehow got brought up (not by me) you just went ahead and made a whole bunch of assumptions of how i feel about SwSh and who knows what else. I can already tell you don't want to actually engage me in any kind of meaningful conversation so don't even @ me or quote me back after this. You already have this mental image/idea of what i stand for after reading one of my posts about a game not even related to Pokemon with the wrong context/interpretation from another person responding to me. Do you have any idea what that says about you? Please...think carefully. Not for my sake, but your own (i was going to make a joke and say "use what's left of that braincell"  you mentioned but i'm almost certain that'd be taken the wrong way). I'm not your enemy and i'm not the person you think i am. I'm not trying to belittle you or anything. If you want to know about how i feel towards pokemon it is actually pretty short and simple. I just want them to lower their price tags and if they aren't going to do that, make something more visually beautiful. Outside of me asking them to stop with the gimmicks they create every gen (for example Z-moves) i don't even really dabble in suggesting gameplay changes or performance. And since customization is already an existing mechanic, all i'd ask for is more fashion types. That in a nutshell is all i even demand from them. Compared to other gamers asking for things such as an improved interfaces, online chat rooms, more features for online and etc, i'm more so on the tame side.

16 hours ago, Archeleon said:

Am I the only one that thinks it's silly to come to the Three Hopes-specific section of the forum, go into a congratulatory post within it and reply that you didn't like the game? Perhaps a lapse of judgment? 

I was just frustrated with the fact that people are celebrating this reoccuring concept of a game company not actually exerting effort when it comes to making games but then still making loads of money. I took a class in college regarding business and one thing the teacher covered was an idea (it was also in the book). That we the consumers have the most power in our relationship but we actually need to come to a consensus and act collectively. They can't get away predatory practices if the consumers simply all in mass don't give them our patronage. But in order for us all to act accordingly, we have to be informed. We need individuals who can still identify or spot their malpratice. I just want people to know that this game they gave us is the bare minimum of what they could do and that we need to demand better/more. It isn't unreasonable. Of course maybe i probably should have put more thought into what i'm accomplishing. My post was irrelevant to what this thread's main discussion was and even if i created a separate thread, i doubt a few hundred people on serenes can achieve any meaningful impact on a company like IS/Koei let alone Nintendo.

 

17 hours ago, ZanaLyrander said:

I... didn't want to say it, since I didn't want to come across as dismissive, but it did seem an odd place for this kind of negative feedback. It's especially odd seeing such negativity coming from people who by their own admission have put hundreds of hours into the game. It's like seeing negative steam reviews from people with hundreds or even thousands of hours spent in game. It's certainly valid to criticize even games you enjoy, and the ability to critique even things you enjoy is valuable. But declaring an entire game poor quality after literally hundreds of hours spent in game does kinda make my head spin. If the game is poor quality, why spend so much time playing it? I've certainly encountered games I consider poor quality, and usually I don't play them for very long, they're not fun, I go back and play something better instead. I would certainly never sink hundreds of hours into a game if I wasn't having fun.

It is poor quality. I can say that objectively. The only way i'd be able to come to that conclusion is after sinking at least 100 hours and throughly examining it. However that point i was trying to convey/make was lost cause of misunderstanding or misinterpretation. I think...I'm not sure. With that be said though, i still do like the game even though i don't think it is worth $60. I like playing musou games with hack 'n' slash. I'm also here for more lore from the Fodlan series since i do like some of these characters and i want to see it for myself. So all in all, i'm having fun. Here i'll try to use an analogy here to try to convey what is happening. Take for example a person who doesn't like to waste food. Say they cook something and it doesn't come out exactly the way the wanted it too. The food is still edible and won't otherwise poison the individual. So at the very least they are going to eat it as opposed to throwing in the trash can since that would be a total waste. It did cost money to buy those ingredients and time to prepare it and even if it isn't perfect it'll still at least get the job done and make you feel full. Now exiting the analogy (or was that a metaphor?). I bought the game and it is still fun. I just wanted it to be better than what it was. 

 

16 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

 

Yes. It's in remarkably poor taste, and also in remarkably poor taste to call the other person infuriating for taking issue with it. 

 

There's a reason I don't hang out in the SoV board. I think it's a bad game. There's a reason why I don't post in Fates. I think it's a bad game. There's a reason I quit posting in Heroes after I stopped playing it. It IS a bad game. I have nothing positive to contribute there, and my input is not wanted.

 

The boards exist for those who care to discuss the game, not to stamp your feet and wish for a game to flop.

Even if it isn't inherently clear, my point that i was trying to make as well as what i'm fighting for (not in the literal sense) is actually in your best interest. I won't ever stop demanding higher quality games from Nintendo. Which you would benefit from by the way. I didn't try to antagonize you and it isn't like as if i percieve you poorly as a result of this exchange. I do think this game is low/poor quality but that doesn't mean i'm not having fun playing it. I'm also still like reading what others chat about since it is usually informative and even broadens my perspective from time to time. This includes some of the things you've said in other threads in this subsection. Plus i'm also here (in this subsection of 3 Hopes) because i'm a volunteer and i'm making a decent amount of contributions toward filling out the wiki's page. And for anyone who is responding to me either in this thread or other threads, even if a discussion turns into a debate, i will always endeavor to understand others and their perspective because i can't grow unless i can see beyond my own perspective. Being able to understand and see things from other angles that other people concieve is important to me as well as gathering new information that can possibly update my understanding/view. It has happened a handful times in the past (in other threads, years ago) where something like this debate will happen and usually it is cause i fail to articulate what i'm thinking but none the less, i still respond to others and try to figure what is being said to me and what the other person is trying to convey to me. I didn't come here wishing this game flopped. I have buyer's remoarse sure, but more than anything i just expected more and want more. I also think it is in everyone's best interest. I criticized this game and i'll stand by that since i'm sure that my assessment isn't inaccurate however i wanted to know why you deflected and otherwise dismissed my remarks. Since you took the time to respond others but not my questions i'll assume you don't want to discuss it anymore so i'll go ahead and drop it. And for what it's worth, i hope you and your family overcome whatever misfortune has landed your way. 

 

[ZanaLyrander]

24 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

It is poor quality. I can say that objectively. 

Um... no, you can not, that is an inherently subjective claim, a statement of opinion. No one can objectively declare something to be poor quality.

26 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

The only way i'd be able to come to that conclusion is after sinking at least 100 hours and throughly examining it. However that point i was trying to convey/make was lost cause of misunderstanding or misinterpretation. I think...I'm not sure. With that be said though, i still do like the game even though i don't think it is worth $60. I like playing musou games with hack 'n' slash. I'm also here for more lore from the Fodlan series since i do like some of these characters and i want to see it for myself. So all in all, i'm having fun. Here i'll try to use an analogy here to try to convey what is happening. Take for example a person who doesn't like to waste food. Say they cook something and it doesn't come out exactly the way the wanted it too. The food is still edible and won't otherwise poison the individual. So at the very least they are going to eat it as opposed to throwing in the trash can since that would be a total waste. It did cost money to buy those ingredients and time to prepare it and even if it isn't perfect it'll still at least get the job done and make you feel full. Now exiting the analogy (or was that a metaphor?). I bought the game and it is still fun. I just wanted it to be better than what it was. 

I understand your point of view a bit better, but... well, the number of games I can play for 300+ hours and still be having fun is low. Three Hopes is one of those games, I have sunk almost 350 hours into this game, and I had a great time. There are numerous games I would consider good that don't meet those standards. So hearing that you had 300+ hours of entertainment from a game and then hearing you turn around and call it poor quality... I'm certainly not saying you're incorrect, as I said, quality is subjective, it is a matter of opinion. I'm only saying that if your standards for games are so high that 300 hours of enjoyment and entertainment are not worth $60, you're going to be disappointed more often than not.

I certainly don't consider the game perfect, there are numerous improvements I would like to see. There are plenty of ways it could be better. But having extracted as much enjoyment and entertainment out of the game as I have (enjoyment and entertainment being the entire point of a game), I can't possibly declare it poor quality. I am merely surprised that we seem to have had a similar experience with the game (played for 300+ hours and are still enjoying it), and yet come to polar opposite conclusions.

[Fabulously Olivier]

I reckon the game's we each consider to be poor quality are different games. This isn't what I think of when I think poor quality, especially not within the given budget.

 

When I think poor quality - I think Bethesda - games with more bugs than a dive hotel. When I think poor quality, I think EA - games stuffed with hundreds of dollars in mtx. When I think poor quality, I think games that run so poorly, even my slow eyes can perceive the frame drops. When I think poor quality, I think games with no story, and next to no content (Destiny!)

[ciphertul]

I will also add that most gamers have had a game that they wish would fail, most of the time it’s not done out of spite but out of the hope it doesn’t continue down a path the player doesn’t enjoy. I know I have done that.

On terms of pricing appropriately, worth is a very subjective topic. As you all know Worth is what someone is willing to pay for it. While you can full regret paying that much for it and feel that it wasn’t worth it to you. However what it’s worth to you have little to do with how much it’s worth for everyone else. It sold well meaning many felt it was worth 60$, if they didn’t they would have waited until a sale to pick it up. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

I will also add that most gamers have had a game that they wish would fail, most of the time it’s not done out of spite but out of the hope it doesn’t continue down a path the player doesn’t enjoy. I know I have done that.

And if that's in response to anticonsumer business practices, fair enough. Otherwise, not fair enough. 

 

And we're the last community who should be engaging in that behavior because our franchise almost did fail, and almost did end entirely. We should know better, and I am ashamed that we do not.

[ZanaLyrander]

I have to agree, when I wish for a game to fail, its because it's predatory, with loads of microtransations, or worse, gambling, preying on vulnerable people. The only fire emblem I have ever wished would fail is Heroes, because I despise lootboxes and Gacha games in all forms. If your business model relies on harming people with gambling addictions in order to succeed, then you deserve to fail, and should be ashamed of what you have created.

But hoping a game will fail just because it's not the sort of game I enjoy feels bitter and petty. I don't enjoy competitive multiplayer. I don't hope such games fail, I simply seek out other games. If a game from a single player series I normally enjoy became competitive multiplayer, I'd certainly be disappointed, but even then, hoping it fails feels like a bit of a stretch. I continue to support the games that provide what I am looking for. It's all a consumer can do. It's our way of saying "I approve of this". When you don't buy a game, the developer has no idea why: maybe you couldn't afford it, maybe you don't like the genre, maybe you dislike their business practices, maybe the game wasn't very well made, maybe something else you were more interested in came out around the same time, who knows? Providing negative feedback to a developer through purchasing decisions is all but impossible, because the message is so muddled. Positive feedback is much easier to provide, much easier to measure.