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Yuyu

Any Fun and Underrated Unit Promotions for the FE8 cast?

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Yesterday, I was thinking, if I do another playthrough of Sacred Stones, about going the Sage route with Ewan (or Saleh or Lute) and then using that enemy glitch to give him Demon Surge and get him to use dark magic. That way I can have a Sage that knows ALL the forms of magic since they already got Light, Anima, and Staves proficiency (though I'd still have to S rank only one of them).
One of my save files has as many horse and pegasus units as possible cuz I tried a horse emblem challenge on that one. So yeah, Ewan was a mage knight, Amelia a great knight, etc. Probably won't promote them to that again, but still a nice experiment I tried out at that time.

Are there any other fun unit builds and promotions that don't normally see the light of day but are super fun when played around with? I'd love to experiment again the next time I start another Sacred Stones save.

 

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The problem with FE8's split promotions is that they broadly fall into "the obvious choice" and "the good choice". The obvious choice for Amelia and Gilliam is General- the good choice is Paladin and Great Knight, respectively. Mage Knight is better than Sage, but Sage is what you intuitively think Lute should be. The same applies with Hero and Warrior for Garcia.

All well and good, Uncle Anon. What does that mean for me?

Well, it means that you've probably already done both before, and neither can be underrated since it's either the clear choice for casuals or the clear choice for elitists. For units where the good and obvious choice overlap- like Swordmaster for Joshua- the alternative is usually just a straight downgrade. Ranger Gerik is probably the closest to an "uncommon" promotion in FE8 where you'd actually get some utility out of it.

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15 hours ago, Yuyu said:

One of my save files has as many horse and pegasus units as possible cuz I tried a horse emblem challenge on that one. So yeah, Ewan was a mage knight, Amelia a great knight, etc. Probably won't promote them to that again, but still a nice experiment I tried out at that time.

Perhaps you could do the opposite, and only do no-horse promotions? Stuff like Archer -> Sniper Neimi, Cleric -> Bishop Natasha, and so on. If you forbid yourself from using Cavs and Paladins at all, then it's a legit challenge run.

13 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Ranger Gerik is probably the closest to an "uncommon" promotion in FE8 where you'd actually get some utility out of it.

Maybe Valkyrie Natasha as well? Missing Slayer sucks, but a horse is always worth some consideration. 

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Assassin is an interesting pick for Joshua and Marisa, actually. In the kill XP formula, Assassins only have {Lv+10} as their internal level, instead of {Lv+20} like most other promoted classes. You lose a few stat points upon promotion in favour of faster level gain, the ability to use Lockpicks, and (for what it's worth) the Silencer skill.

Similarly, L'Arachel gets more kill XP if she goes Valkyrie, but only starts with Light (D) instead of Anima (C).

Otherwise, I think that most characters have one promo option that is just more useful than the other. Gerik has been mentioned as an exception (Axes vs. Canto and +1 move), Ross is another (Warrior is his worst option, but both 'serker and Hero have their merits). Can't think of another one, though.

 

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I think most choices actually have very little difference between them, and that difference is usually one just being better than the other for the most part. That said I do think there are a few that are pretty balanced.

Gerik has already been mentioned as has Natasha and I agree on both of those. I also think Sage vs Bishop is pretty balanced for both Artur and Moulder, though both classes offer different advantages between the two.

1 hour ago, ping said:

Assassin is an interesting pick for Joshua and Marisa, actually. In the kill XP formula, Assassins only have {Lv+10} as their internal level, instead of {Lv+20} like most other promoted classes. You lose a few stat points upon promotion in favour of faster level gain, the ability to use Lockpicks, and (for what it's worth) the Silencer skill.

Similarly, L'Arachel gets more kill XP if she goes Valkyrie, but only starts with Light (D) instead of Anima (C).

Oh that’s interesting. I never thought of that. That’s definitely something to consider.

Edit: Also I actually think Great Knight might be a slightly under rated option for Cavaliers. It’s probably not worth losing 2 Movement for, and the higher Con can be a bad thing for Rescue/Dropping, but an additional +1 Str with more potential Atk from Axes, and an additional +1 Spd with more potential AS (or Atk) from higher Con can noticeably improve combat performance.

Edited by Whisky

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6 hours ago, ping said:

Assassin is an interesting pick for Joshua and Marisa, actually. In the kill XP formula, Assassins only have {Lv+10} as their internal level, instead of {Lv+20} like most other promoted classes. You lose a few stat points upon promotion in favour of faster level gain, the ability to use Lockpicks, and (for what it's worth) the Silencer skill.

I am very tempted to promote those two to Assassin the next time I play SS. I've always thought about it before in my previous playthroughs but I don't think I went through with it.

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On 9/7/2022 at 2:50 PM, Whisky said:

Gerik has already been mentioned as has Natasha and I agree on both of those. I also think Sage vs Bishop is pretty balanced for both Artur and Moulder, though both classes offer different advantages between the two.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Sage for these two.

Sage definitely looks better for both of them, but I'm not sure what the practical advantage is. Elfire access?

Valkyrie vs Bishop for Natasha isn't too bad either. I actually tend to go Valkyrie, since I don't really user her as a combat unit most of the time, but I can see the argument for Bishop.

On 9/7/2022 at 2:50 PM, Whisky said:

Edit: Also I actually think Great Knight might be a slightly under rated option for Cavaliers. It’s probably not worth losing 2 Movement for, and the higher Con can be a bad thing for Rescue/Dropping, but an additional +1 Str with more potential Atk from Axes, and an additional +1 Spd with more potential AS (or Atk) from higher Con can noticeably improve combat performance.

The stats might matter if FE8 enemies weren't made of cheap plaster and Elmer's glue.

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To be honest, I think Bishop is just straight up the better class for both Moulder and Artur. Yes, Anima magic is better than Light, but there are enough monsters in the lategame that the Bishop's effective damage against those outweighs that advantage (especially if you plan to do the Lagdou ruins).

Artur also directly goes to Staves (C) instead of (D), which is quite significant in a game as short as SacSto. He can immediately use Barrier to boost himself to Physic rank, which is great even if you don't care about warp skipping.

Not that Sage is a bad class for them. But its only real bonus compared to Bishop is the Anima access, i.e. purely combat, and it's outdone by the Slayer skill. Sage's higher Mag cap doesn't really come into play - Moulder's Mag is pretty arse (19.4 as 20/20 Sage, 20.4 as 20/20 Bishop), so it's completely irrelevant for him, while Artur hits Bishop Mag cap at 20/17 (at 25). However, his 20/20 Sage average is 25 point five, so this is still only relevant for a Mag-blesses Artur with an Energy Ring on top. Maybe a bit more relevant in a Lagdou run, but, well, that's where Slayer is particularly strong.

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On 9/7/2022 at 1:50 PM, Whisky said:

Edit: Also I actually think Great Knight might be a slightly under rated option for Cavaliers. It’s probably not worth losing 2 Movement for, and the higher Con can be a bad thing for Rescue/Dropping, but an additional +1 Str with more potential Atk from Axes, and an additional +1 Spd with more potential AS (or Atk) from higher Con can noticeably improve combat performance.

I disagree, personally. The trademark characteristic of cavalry units is high mobility, and the fact that a Cavalier going into Great Knight LOSES movement defeats the purpose of Great Knights being mounted. I find it hard to believe axe access is enough to make up for being brought down to infantry movement.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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16 hours ago, ping said:

To be honest, I think Bishop is just straight up the better class for both Moulder and Artur. Yes, Anima magic is better than Light, but there are enough monsters in the lategame that the Bishop's effective damage against those outweighs that advantage (especially if you plan to do the Lagdou ruins).

 

Hm, I'm not so sure, at least if you're just planning to beat the game. The monster-heavy maps are usually considered the easy ones lategame, are they not? I certainly have more kneejerk respect for Scorched Sands, Ruled by Madness, and Last Hope than I do the gorgon map or the last two. So it seems to me that Slayer only performing in the easier maps is a pretty major point against Bishop. That said it does have the better exp gain so I think it's an open choice regardless.

On 9/7/2022 at 10:47 AM, ping said:

Assassin is an interesting pick for Joshua and Marisa, actually. In the kill XP formula, Assassins only have {Lv+10} as their internal level, instead of {Lv+20} like most other promoted classes. You lose a few stat points upon promotion in favour of faster level gain, the ability to use Lockpicks, and (for what it's worth) the Silencer skill.

 

Yeah I agree with this. Once I realized the exp difference and ran the numbers, I came down pretty cleanly on the "Assassin is the better choice, actually" side of things. Too bad I dislike how that class looks.

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On 9/9/2022 at 5:41 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

The stats might matter if FE8 enemies weren't made of cheap plaster and Elmer's glue.

11 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I disagree, personally. The trademark characteristic of cavalry units is high mobility, and the fact that a Cavalier going into Great Knight LOSES movement defeats the purpose of Great Knights being mounted. I find it hard to believe axe access is enough to make up for being brought down to infantry movement.

Great Knight really probably isn’t worth losing 2 Movement for. And you’re right, it’s even arguably better to just not promote and keep the 7 Move as a Cavalier. On top of less Move, Great Knight’s lose Rescue/Drop utility. Higher Con means less Aid so they can’t Rescue as many units and it also means they themselves are harder to Rescue. To showcase this, Great Knights cannot Rescue other Great Knights. Paladins being able to Rescue/Drop other Paladins is very nice utility.

That being said while it probably isn’t worth it, I do think that Great Knight’s do have some nice advantages that sometimes seem to get overlooked. I have often noticed situations where Paladins fail to 1RKO an enemy by only a few stats. Great Knights can, at least on occasion, perform much better than Paladins in combat. They not only get +1 Str and Spd, but also higher Con and Axes. Against Sword enemies, Paladins will usually use what, Iron Lances? Great Knights can use Steel Lances with no AS loss to have a total of +4 Atk and +1 AS. If Paladins do use Steel Lances for the higher Atk the. great Knights still have +1 Atk and now have +3 AS. There are quite a lot of Lance enemies in the game, from Cavaliers and Armor Knights to Wyvern Riders and Gargoyles. Against Lances enemies, Paladins will again use mostly Iron Lances, yeah? A Great Knight with an Iron Axe would have +3 Atk and +1 AS, not to mention greater Hit, Def, and Avo. If the Paladin uses a Steel Lance to catch up in Atk, the Great Knight can either do the same, or use a Steel Axe and still have more AS. They can also have +2 Atk (+3 against Lance enemies) at 1-2 range by using a Hand Axe, which can easily make the difference of 1RKOing or not. Javelins are not powerful weapons so Paladins can struggle to 1RKO with them.

These disadvantages don’t matter as much if the Paladin uses better weapons like Killer or Silver, but those are obviously rarer and generally not available as early, and the Great Knight can maintain these advantages still if they raise their Axe rank enough.

1 point of Str and Spd might not seem like much, but Great Knights can sometimes have +3-4 Atk/AS by using the right weapons, especially against Lance enemies. I think this difference in combat performance is not negligible.

I’ll comment on Sage vs Bishop at a later date.

Edited by Whisky

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Oh yeah, the ability to throw on a hand axe and run into the middle of things can make almost any unit good. However, if I wanted a unit with six move and hand-axes, I'd probably just use Gerik.

It's kinda weird to think that Great Knight has higher speed the Paladin, even aside from con, but the numbers do seem impressive. I'm just not sure how common those thresholds are. No AS loss from steel lance is kinda weird, because usually it's better to stick to 1-2 range, but hand axes are definitely an improvement over javelins anyway.

8 minutes ago, Whisky said:

I’ll comment on Sage vs Bishop at a later date.

I am looking forward to it.

Edited by AnonymousSpeed

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7 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Hm, I'm not so sure, at least if you're just planning to beat the game. The monster-heavy maps are usually considered the easy ones lategame, are they not? I certainly have more kneejerk respect for Scorched Sands, Ruled by Madness, and Last Hope than I do the gorgon map or the last two. So it seems to me that Slayer only performing in the easier maps is a pretty major point against Bishop. That said it does have the better exp gain so I think it's an open choice regardless.

Well, there's Phantom Ship (I'm never too sure if I remember XP curves correctly, but early-promoted Artur should be realistic, right?), a handful of midgame monster maps that aren't quite as rough, and I personally do find Darkling Woods challenging, although that one might be related to me not warp- or flyer-skip any of the reinforcement zones.

However, I don't disagree that maps with human enemies are overall more difficult than monster maps. But I don't think that the Sage class is that much better at fighting humans than the bishop. Getting Thunder is good, don't get me wrong, but the way I see it, it's a pretty minor bonus in "vs. Human" maps opposed to a very significant bonus in "vs. Monster" maps.

To put some numbers behind this -

  • Bishop w/Lighting vs. Sage w/Fire: +7 Hit, +5.5 Crit, same Atk, same AS.
  • Bishop w/Lightning vs Sage w/Thunder: +17 Hit, +0.5 Crit, -3 Atk, same AS.
  • Bishop w/Shine vs. Sage w/Thunder: +12 Hit, +3.5 Crit, -1 Atk, same (Moulder) or -1 (Artur) AS
  • Bishop w/Divine vs. Sage w/Elfire: +2 Hit, +10.5 Crit, -1 Atk, -2 AS

As long as you're not attacking Brigands in the mountains, and assuming that you're not using Fire, the Sage promotion is better, or at least more consistent. But it's just not that big, compared to a Bishop's ability to throw a 36 Mt Divine at a Deathgoyle. Plus, for Artur, there's still the instant Staves (C) rank, which I think is honestly more important than all this "who does fighting better" talk.

7 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yeah I agree with this. Once I realized the exp difference and ran the numbers, I came down pretty cleanly on the "Assassin is the better choice, actually" side of things. Too bad I dislike how that class looks.

I think I got the idea from you :lol:

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On 9/7/2022 at 12:47 PM, ping said:

Assassin is an interesting pick for Joshua and Marisa, actually. In the kill XP formula, Assassins only have {Lv+10} as their internal level, instead of {Lv+20} like most other promoted classes. You lose a few stat points upon promotion in favour of faster level gain, the ability to use Lockpicks, and (for what it's worth) the Silencer skill.

I would disagree - imho, better stats and more crit chance, and thus a better chance to kill whatever they fight, outstrips Assassin's meager offerings.

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20 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would disagree - imho, better stats and more crit chance, and thus a better chance to kill whatever they fight, outstrips Assassin's meager offerings.

The "better stats" you're talking about consist of 2 HP and 1 strength. (Also 1 con, but Female Assassin has +1 speed which always offsets that, and the con is often gratuitous for Joshua as he's not weighed down by silver/killer regardless).

Within two maps of promotion, you can expect assassin to outstrip swordmaster by 3 levels (assuming you get ~10% of the kills per chapter, which I don't think is unreasonable... if you're getting significantly less with these characters they should be benched instead IMO, because as foot units with little utility they'll really struggle to be useful if behind on levels). The gap continues to expand from there, likely reaching a gap of ~6 by the end, so 3 makes a nice compromise point. At a gap of 3 levels, the Str/HP advantages of promotion are both erased (as is Joshua's 1 spd with heavier weapons), while Assassin will open up a lead in every other stat.

The crit is a fair point. Personally I don't like relying on crits and send my units preferentially after things they one-round reliably. And even if I do decide to fish for crits, the crit boost affects fewer than 1 in 6 combats... so it's going to come up what, once or twice per playthrough at best? So I value lockpick and increased fog vision more than the crit boost, myself.

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50 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

The "better stats" you're talking about consist of 2 HP and 1 strength. (Also 1 con, but Female Assassin has +1 speed which always offsets that, and the con is often gratuitous for Joshua as he's not weighed down by silver/killer regardless).

Within two maps of promotion, you can expect assassin to outstrip swordmaster by 3 levels (assuming you get ~10% of the kills per chapter, which I don't think is unreasonable... if you're getting significantly less with these characters they should be benched instead IMO, because as foot units with little utility they'll really struggle to be useful if behind on levels). The gap continues to expand from there, likely reaching a gap of ~6 by the end, so 3 makes a nice compromise point. At a gap of 3 levels, the Str/HP advantages of promotion are both erased (as is Joshua's 1 spd with heavier weapons), while Assassin will open up a lead in every other stat.

The crit is a fair point. Personally I don't like relying on crits and send my units preferentially after things they one-round reliably. And even if I do decide to fish for crits, the crit boost affects fewer than 1 in 6 combats... so it's going to come up what, once or twice per playthrough at best? So I value lockpick and increased fog vision more than the crit boost, myself.

Increased fog vision might have been a good argument for Assassin were it not for the fact that by the time you promote either Joshua or Marisa, there is only one fog map left (there are all of four fog maps in Sacred Stones, but you only play three of them in any given run)... and aside from that, it only really helps in the occasional skirmish. And honestly, I'd consider it dubious to pick a promotion that only helps in one specific chapter and is pretty much a brick otherwise. Also, in my humble opinion, if you're having trouble killing, like Marisa tends to do, I'd consider a boost to crit chance to be more helpful to that end than an unreliable one-shot.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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On 9/9/2022 at 5:41 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about Sage for these two.

Sage definitely looks better for both of them, but I'm not sure what the practical advantage is. Elfire access?

On 9/10/2022 at 12:09 AM, ping said:

To be honest, I think Bishop is just straight up the better class for both Moulder and Artur. Yes, Anima magic is better than Light, but there are enough monsters in the lategame that the Bishop's effective damage against those outweighs that advantage (especially if you plan to do the Lagdou ruins).

Artur also directly goes to Staves (C) instead of (D), which is quite significant in a game as short as SacSto. He can immediately use Barrier to boost himself to Physic rank, which is great even if you don't care about warp skipping.

Not that Sage is a bad class for them. But its only real bonus compared to Bishop is the Anima access, i.e. purely combat, and it's outdone by the Slayer skill. Sage's higher Mag cap doesn't really come into play - Moulder's Mag is pretty arse (19.4 as 20/20 Sage, 20.4 as 20/20 Bishop), so it's completely irrelevant for him, while Artur hits Bishop Mag cap at 20/17 (at 25). However, his 20/20 Sage average is 25 point five, so this is still only relevant for a Mag-blesses Artur with an Energy Ring on top. Maybe a bit more relevant in a Lagdou run, but, well, that's where Slayer is particularly strong.

Alright. So thinking it over I actually think that Bishop is the better choice for Artur but I think Sage might be better for Moulder, and I don’t think Sage is far behind for Artur either plus it looks cooler so I’d still go with Sage.

I don’t think I’ll bother going over the differences in Atk between Sage and Bishop as we all agree that Sage is better against humans due to Anima being better than Light, while Bishop is better against monsters (*) due to Slayer. Probably both classes will end up performing the same in most scenarios anyway because:

On 9/9/2022 at 5:41 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

The stats might matter if FE8 enemies weren't made of cheap plaster and Elmer's glue.

It’s true that most enemies in Sacred Stones are pretty weak. Which should mean that Sage is able to 1RKO many monsters even without Slayer. And if it doesn’t then that means that Bishop would struggle even more to 1RKO humans right, since Bishop is  overall weaker? Unless monsters are significantly stronger than humans? So Sage would seem to have the more consistent combat performance.

Artur does get a bump up to C Staves from Bishop and that alone could arguably make it better than Sage. He also will have higher Light rank than Anima even if he goes with Sage. Moulder on the other hand will only have D Light while he will have C Anima from promoting to Sage. Bishop does give him a higher Staff rank bonus, but I don’t think he needs it. I think his Staff rank will be high enough as a Sage. It might be even be a little too high as a Bishop, if you don’t want to S rank Staves.

The most monster heavy maps are late in the game. Phantom Ship is an exception and can be challenging so a Bishop might be nice to have there, but for the late game monster maps, Slayer isn’t the only way to get effective damage against monsters. Excalibur always deals effective damage against monsters even without Slayer, and is better than any Light magic, even Ivaldi (you also get it before Ivaldi). Moulder should be able to 1RKO weak monsters with Thunder or Elfire anyway, and when you’re up against something really strong, Excalibur is better to have than Slayer. Moulder actually gains AS from Excalibur despite its weight.

Of course Moulder’s primary role is probably as a support healer, not a combat unit in which case there really isn’t much of a difference between either Sage or Bishop anyway.

Edited by Whisky

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On 9/11/2022 at 4:14 PM, Shadow Mir said:

Also, in my humble opinion, if you're having trouble killing, like Marisa tends to do, I'd consider a boost to crit chance to be more helpful to that end than an unreliable one-shot.

Assassin is the best class for Marisa because she's too weak to kill even with a crit.

6 hours ago, Whisky said:

Alright. So thinking it over I actually think that Bishop is the better choice for Artur but I think Sage might be better for Moulder, and I don’t think Sage is far behind for Artur either plus it looks cooler so I’d still go with Sage.

Yeah man, Bishop Artur is pretty generic looking, but Sage Artur is extremely slick. Almost silver in appearance. Beautiful.

6 hours ago, Whisky said:

Moulder actually gains AS from Excalibur despite its weight.

The Boulder persists.

Kebe used Sage Moulder in his unfinished 0% growths run, and while I think he just going to be a staffbot, I can see picking Sage for him. C Anima is a lot more appealing than D Light, and he'll be at a good staff rank regardless.

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1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Assassin is the best class for Marisa because she's too weak to kill even with a crit.

I hard disagree. Sure, Silencer might help her kill stuff she might not have otherwise, but it's generally just useless and win-more (let's face it, anything that's actually nasty enough that Silencer might be warranted on has infinitely better methods of killing).

Edited by Shadow Mir

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On 9/12/2022 at 5:33 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

The Boulder persists.

Kebe used Sage Moulder in his unfinished 0% growths run, and while I think he just going to be a staffbot, I can see picking Sage for him. C Anima is a lot more appealing than D Light, and he'll be at a good staff rank regardless.

Being mainly designated to a support role anyway and having a high Staff rank either way means the difference is pretty negligible.

Although something I didn’t mention is that if he is being mainly designated to a support role then he may be unlikely to reach S rank Anima, especially before reaching S rank in Staves.

Another small advantage Bishop might have over Sage is that Shine gives +2 WepExp while Fire and Thunder only give +1. Elfire gives +2 but can’t be purchased until Ch15 (found on SerenesForest page). That might give Bishop the chance to catch up on weapon rank and maybe even get ahead. That also means they can’t benefit from Elfire’s higher Mt until later. I’m not sure if Elfire’s are available before this or not though. If they are I suppose it wouldn’t be in bulk like Shine’s.

Also Bishop’s gain more Exp than Sage’s? I don’t know how to factor that in or how big of a difference that makes?

Also yeah, Hand Axe with up to +3 more Atk is probably the best point Great Knight has going for it.

Edited by Whisky

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1 hour ago, Whisky said:

Also yeah, Hand Axe with up to +3 more Atk is probably the best point Great Knight has going for it.

Is that +3 counting the additional might of the hand axe?

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3 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Is that +3 counting the additional might of the hand axe?

Yeah that’s everything.

+1 Str promo bonus

+1 Mt over Javelin

+1 WTA against Lances.

Against other weapon types it would still be +2 so that’s nice too.

Also also, it is strange that Great Knights have more Spd than Paladins, and it’s also strange that they don’t have more Def.

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23 hours ago, Whisky said:

Also also, it is strange that Great Knights have more Spd than Paladins, and it’s also strange that they don’t have more Def.

That is extremely strange, and probably not good for balance. A couple more defense points over Paladin would've been a fine way to make the class more appealing.

Aside. I know we've mentioned Assassin leveling up faster than Swordmaster, but I'm not sure that'd actually make up for the worse promotion gains. Swordmaster gives +1 strength if I recall correctly. Marisa's strength growth is 30 and Joshua's is 35, so they only get a point of strength in three levels on average. This means Assassin needs accelerated XP gain to end up with the same strength Swordmaster would have right away.

Edited by AnonymousSpeed

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On 9/13/2022 at 6:02 PM, Whisky said:

Elfire gives +1 but can’t be purchased until Ch15 (found on SerenesForest page).

Correction to above, I meant to say: Elfire gives +2*. Sorry for any confusion.

17 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

That is extremely strange, and probably not good for balance. A couple more defense points over Paladin would've been a fine way to make the class more appealing.

Yeah that would help. It’s so strange seeing them in pretty bulky looking armor but having the same Def as Paladin.

17 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Aside. I know we've mentioned Assassin leveling up faster than Swordmaster, but I'm not sure that'd actually make up for the worse promotion gains. Swordmaster gives +1 strength if I recall correctly. Marisa's strength growth is 30 and Joshua's is 35, so they only get a point of strength in three levels on average. This means Assassin needs accelerated XP gain to end up with the same strength Swordmaster would have right away.

So it becomes sort of like ‘bases vs growths’? I don’t really know how much of a difference the increased Exp makes. How much more do they actually get. I’ve always just seen Assassin as the class you pick if you want give them some utility with lock picking and stuff. Silencer is way too unreliable to be useful unfortunately.

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5 hours ago, Whisky said:

So it becomes sort of like ‘bases vs growths’? I don’t really know how much of a difference the increased Exp makes. How much more do they actually get.

I was basing my comparison on DHE's predictions:

On 9/11/2022 at 3:25 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Within two maps of promotion, you can expect assassin to outstrip swordmaster by 3 levels (assuming you get ~10% of the kills per chapter, which I don't think is unreasonable... if you're getting significantly less with these characters they should be benched instead IMO, because as foot units with little utility they'll really struggle to be useful if behind on levels). The gap continues to expand from there, likely reaching a gap of ~6 by the end, so 3 makes a nice compromise point. At a gap of 3 levels, the Str/HP advantages of promotion are both erased (as is Joshua's 1 spd with heavier weapons), while Assassin will open up a lead in every other stat.

I'm not sure how reliable 10% of kills is, because you're not going to have 1-2 range either way, but I think the only stat your myrmidons are really going to be hurting for is strength, which Swordmaster helps them get ahead on both from the immediate benefit of the promotion bonus and the additional crit. Would I rely on crit? No, but that's why I wouldn't use a myrmidon in the first place. If you insist on using one, I think the utility benefits are pretty minor unless you've lost both Colm and Rennac while playing an ironman.

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