When you realize that Edelgard is the only female lord not to make the cut.

[Florete]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just choose whether we wanted male or female Corrin/Byleth at the start of the game to begin with?

I mean, we might. We know next to nothing about this mechanic. Maybe there will be gender selections for avatar rings, or maybe there will just be separate rings altogether for both versions of the avatars.

[Maimishou]

3 hours ago, Seazas said:

Sothis and/or Byleth are the poster children. They are the ones who are in the center of 3 Houses' box and best represent all three-four routes. There's a reason Sothis is used as the Fodlan icon while all the lords are usually used as the icon in Heroes. 

That's not a good enough reason to prioritize her when Byleth is still the central character and the one we directly play as and see the world through in all routes. Even then, Sothis best fits the mascot label. She directly has the design of a mascot type character and exists to help push our protagonist forward. Sothis has been used as a mascot countless time. Along with that, Byleth best represents everything about 3 Houses to the point they are the teacher and have exclusive mechanics centered around them that Edelgard doesn't get. She gets no exclusive gameplay mechanics around her. Again, the song you mentioned is directly sung to Byleth from Edelgard. So it still ties into Byleth and her getting an entire trailer is nothing new. Byleth got a focus before too.

Edelgard being the one to get a dedicated trailer and song on top of being the one driving the plot is absolutely a good enough reason to prioritize her over Dimitri and Claude. I'll concede that Byleth and Sothis may be better choices, but that doesn't mean I or others have to like it. If they weren't going to give us Edelgard they could've at least given us Sothis or even Rhea who holds about the same level of importance as Edelgard does.

46 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Can you show me a literal poster of her that doesn't have an equivalent with Claude and Dimitiri?

Do they or any other character aside from maybe Sothis have an entire trailer narrated by and from their point of view? No? Then they don't represent the game better than Edelgard does. I don't care if it'd upset their fans. They are not as important as she is.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Maimishou

[eclipse]

Last I checked, Edelgard wasn't the lord for Azure Moon/Verdant Wind/Silver Snow.  I'm all for Byleth being the 3H rep here.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Maimishou said:

Do they or any other character aside from maybe Sothis have an entire trailer narrated by and from their point of view? No? Then they don't represent the game better than Edelgard does. I don't care if it'd upset their fans. They are not as important as she is.

It's not about importance. I mean, Edelgard isn't more important than the other lords, but even if she were that is not the same thing as importance. Pikachu remains the mascot of the Pokemon Franchise to this day, yet the only game in which Pikachu is in any way important is in Pokemon Yellow (and I guess that Let's Go Pikachu game). Nor did Charizard or Venesaur have any extra relevance as Mascots for the first two games (subsequent legendary mascots have importance that varies). The Mascot is the face of the franchise. It doesn't matter how relevant they are to the actual story as mascot is a feature of advertising, not narrative. And Edelgard is not the face of Three Houses. She just plain isn't. If she were then it would be her chibi on the loading screen of Three Houses, the icon representing Three Houses in Heroes would have been her and she would have been more than a literal background character in Smash. And yes, she would have been in this game. As I said, Edelgard is not a mascot that keeps getting snubbed.  The fact that she isn't used in these things is what means she's not a mascot. They are simply not using Edelgard's image to represent the game. This factually and demonstratable true. You are looking at her role in the franchise through rose tinted glasses and giving her importance she simply does not have in reality. My comment that you replied to was "show me a poster of her that doesn't have an equivalent with Claude and Dimitiri?" after you said she was the literal posterchild. That isn't sarcasm, it's a literal challenge. Find a poster of Edelgard for me that doesn't exist in a similar style for Dimitri and Edelgard. It should be easy if she's the mascot.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Jotari

[Maimishou]

20 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Last I checked, Edelgard wasn't the lord for Azure Moon/Verdant Wind/Silver Snow.  I'm all for Byleth being the 3H rep here.

Last I checked she was the one who started the war on every route and is a main villain in every route but her own.

 

18 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The Mascot is the face of the franchise. It doesn't matter how relevant they are to the actual story as mascot is a feature of advertising, not narrative. And Edelgard is not the face of Three Houses. She just plain isn't.

You literally just described how she's the mascot of the game. Edelgard's the one with her own trailer and song. Byleth is the main character, there's no denying that, but that doesn't make them the posterchild for the game. That's Edelgard's role.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Maimishou

[eclipse]

11 minutes ago, Maimishou said:

Last I checked she was the one who started the war on every route and is a main villain in every route but her own.

Being a villain doesn't make someone a lord.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Mycen narrated the original trailer for Echoes. Why isn't he in instead of Celica???

Marth narrated the trailer for Fire Emblem Heroes. Why isn't he in instead of Feh the Owl? Scratch that, terrible idea. Feh All Day. 

[know_naim]

You folks really think that the mural-lords is all we are getting? I can't imagine this being the case. Judging from the little info we have, I'd say collecting the main rings is a plot point, and may be required each playthrough. Any additional rings though can be optional recruits, opening up choices for subsequent runs. Like, there will be a Edelgard, a Dimitri and a Claude ring but you can only get one going forward, then you keep the optional rings for New Game+ playthroughs or use renown for getting the one you missed / did not choose. 

I mean, there has to be an Edelgard ring, right? Or maybe I'm just in denial. 

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Maimishou said:

Last I checked she was the one who started the war on every route and is a main villain in every route but her own.

 

You literally just described how she's the mascot of the game. Edelgard's the one with her own trailer and song. Byleth is the main character, there's no denying that, but that doesn't make them the posterchild for the game. That's Edelgard's role.

You're just blatantly ignoring me now. A song is not a poster, nor is a trailer narration. Both of those are exposition.  If she's the poster child then show me the poster.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Jotari

[Maimishou]

4 hours ago, eclipse said:

Being a villain doesn't make someone a lord.

Nobody's talking about whether she's a lord or not? That's not really relevant to the conversation in the thread you inserted yourself into.

1 hour ago, know_naim said:

You folks really think that the mural-lords is all we are getting? I can't imagine this being the case. Judging from the little info we have, I'd say collecting the main rings is a plot point, and may be required each playthrough. Any additional rings though can be optional recruits, opening up choices for subsequent runs. Like, there will be a Edelgard, a Dimitri and a Claude ring but you can only get one going forward, then you keep the optional rings for New Game+ playthroughs or use renown for getting the one you missed / did not choose. 

I mean, there has to be an Edelgard ring, right? Or maybe I'm just in denial. 

Well the common expectation is that we're only getting those in the mural. I personally hope that's not the case, but we really don't know either way.

 

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You're just blatantly ignoring me now. A song is not a poster, nor is a trailer narration. Both of those are exposition.  If she's the poster child then show me the poster.

That's because your insistance on being shown a poster is illogical. Post child is an expression. She doesn't need an actual poster to be the poster child of the game.

[Jotari]

34 minutes ago, Maimishou said:

Nobody's talking about whether she's a lord or not? That's not really relevant to the conversation in the thread you inserted yourself into.

Well the common expectation is that we're only getting those in the mural. I personally hope that's not the case, but we really don't know either way.

 

That's because your insistance on being shown a poster is illogical. Post child is an expression. She doesn't need an actual poster to be the poster child of the game.

It's also quite literal. Posters are the kind of things mascots are featured in. But if you can't find a poster then gamebox, loading screen, Heroes icon, website banner, literally anything other than something she shares with Mycen (unless your so obstinate you're going to now claim that Mycen is the mascot of Shadows of Valentia). And while you're at it explain to me why they didn't use Edelgard's head sprite to represent Three Houses in Heroes if she is obviously the mascot of the game.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Jotari

[MagicCanonBalls]

9 hours ago, Maimishou said:

You literally just described how she's the mascot of the game. Edelgard's the one with her own trailer and song. Byleth is the main character, there's no denying that, but that doesn't make them the posterchild for the game. That's Edelgard's role.

The fact that you have to keep debating and fighting for her to be the "face" or mascot of FE already proved that she just isn't. You can go to any Pokemon or Digimon forum, nobody is gonna deny that Pikachu or Agumon are their mascots, even though they are not be everyone's fav. She is important in the story of 3H but that does not means posterchild status.

She is not on the mural. Even Leif got to be there and he is not the most popular guy in his own not very well-known game. She is not even in Smash, Byleth is, Lucina and Chrom are, Roy is. She is also not the free unit that FEH players get for purchasing FE3H, that's Male Byleth. Because mascot or posterchild are not determined by all these "evidence" that you keep pointing out. She is just, not. Keep saying it won't make her one.  

Being the mascot/posterchild means carrying the brand and image that would be accepted by fans and non-fans. If you can't even convinced longtime fans of the series here, do you really think casuals, outsiders, Edelgard-haters (ppl who WOULD be angry IF she really is the face of 3H) and those Nintendo/IS executives (you know the people who decide these thing), are gonna believe that Edelgard is the representative of 3H?

[Lut-ang]

She'll probably get in as a villain(Hegemon) along with Robin(Grima).

[eclipse]

8 hours ago, Maimishou said:

Nobody's talking about whether she's a lord or not? That's not really relevant to the conversation in the thread you inserted yourself into.

First, this is a message board, everything's public, so there's no inserting myself into a conversation.  Deal with it.  Second, this is what I originally said:

14 hours ago, eclipse said:

Last I checked, Edelgard wasn't the lord for Azure Moon/Verdant Wind/Silver Snow.  I'm all for Byleth being the 3H rep here.

And this is the what the person who created the topic said:

On 9/15/2022 at 7:16 AM, Rose482 said:

 It's just a little thing that I realized while I was thinking of all the lords that for all we know might not be in this game. I understand why they chose Byleth, but it does make it a bit sad how that means Edelgard is the only female lord (Not counting the avatars) that didn't make the cut, haha V_V 

 

[Maimishou]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's also quite literal. Posters are the kind of things mascots are featured in. But if you can't find a poster then gamebox, loading screen, Heroes icon, website banner, literally anything other than something she shares with Mycen (unless your so obstinate you're going to now claim that Mycen is the mascot of Shadows of Valentia). And while you're at it explain to me why they didn't use Edelgard's head sprite to represent Three Houses in Heroes if she is obviously the mascot of the game.

It's quite clear from the explanations I've given that I'm not talking about her being the poster child in a literal sense. I don't owe you any sort of picture or explanation beyond what I've thrown out.

3 hours ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

The fact that you have to keep debating and fighting for her to be the "face" or mascot of FE already proved that she just isn't. You can go to any Pokemon or Digimon forum, nobody is gonna deny that Pikachu or Agumon are their mascots, even though they are not be everyone's fav. She is important in the story of 3H but that does not means posterchild status.

She is not on the mural. Even Leif got to be there and he is not the most popular guy in his own not very well-known game. She is not even in Smash, Byleth is, Lucina and Chrom are, Roy is. She is also not the free unit that FEH players get for purchasing FE3H, that's Male Byleth. Because mascot or posterchild are not determined by all these "evidence" that you keep pointing out. She is just, not. Keep saying it won't make her one.  

Being the mascot/posterchild means carrying the brand and image that would be accepted by fans and non-fans. If you can't even convinced longtime fans of the series here, do you really think casuals, outsiders, Edelgard-haters (ppl who WOULD be angry IF she really is the face of 3H) and those Nintendo/IS executives (you know the people who decide these thing), are gonna believe that Edelgard is the representative of 3H?

If Edelgard isn't meant to be the poster child explain why she's the only one of the three lords to get her own trailer and why she got one over the main character.  Why is she the character chosen to introduce the game to potential players when they go to look up trailers for the game? Ya'll keep bringing up that she isn't in Smash or isn't the one being promoted by Heroes or the icon for the game, but like, of course she isn't. She's not the main character that's Byleth so of course Byleth is going to get the brunt of the promotional stuff. And since we're clearly not limiting things to just Three Houses itself explain why her song is the first thing we hear in the Three Hopes announcement trailer? That isn't a coincidence. Sorry not sorry but when I think of Three Houses Byleth isn't the first character to come to mind. Especially when Three Hopes has proven that they're replaceable since they literally replace them with Shez.

6 minutes ago, eclipse said:

First, this is a message board, everything's public, so there's no inserting myself into a conversation.  Deal with it. 

I apologize. Your message came after a reply I made so I assumed it was directed towards me. My mistake for assuming things.

[Jotari]

On 9/18/2022 at 4:47 AM, Maimishou said:

It's quite clear from the explanations I've given that I'm not talking about her being the poster child in a literal sense. I don't owe you any sort of picture or explanation beyond what I've thrown out.

Sure you don't new me anything, but the reason you're not providing a satisfactory explanation is because you simply don't have one. If you're not talking about poster child in the literal sense then what are you talking about? Some kind of religious sense? Because I and many have pointed out, Edelgard just simply isn't marketed like the mascot of Three Houses, in any way. You have one trailer narration a song, two things which have absolutely nothing to do with being a mascot (has pickachu ever narrated a trailer or sang a song?...well probably but it'd still be a mascot even if it hasn't)  in the face of overwhelming and consistent evidence of IS treating Edelgard as an equivalent to Claude and Dimitiri in terms of representation of the game.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Jotari

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'm a big Edelgard fan but it's pretty silly to claim she's the "poster child" of the game to the point where her not being on this mural is surprising. Almost all material surrounding the game (notably including the box art) features her, Dimitri, and Claude relatively equally. She's often "first" when they're forced to choose (e.g. where the cursor defaults when you choose a house, the tutorial screens, etc.) and I even agree that she is the most important character of the three (Claude and Dimitri are less important than her on routes that aren't their own), but the gap is not that significant, and there are good reasons to avoid using a character who isn't even playable depending on which route the player goes with (unlike Eirika/Ephraim/Celica/Alm).

Though I think that it's pretty hard to choose a single good representative for Three Houses in things like this regardless. Even Byleth, the obvious/neutral choice, has a split based on gender. I definitely understand why the devs often treat Sothis as the game's mascot, even if she isn't as important as the lords; she's the only one who (a) is always on the player's side, and (b) is equally prominent regardless of the player's choices, and thus using her avoids "canonizing" said choices.

[Kori]

Edelgard has more narrative importance than the other two lords, in that she is important even when you're not playing her route (sometimes in ways she shouldn't be - her theme appears in tracks that seem like they're common to all routes, but it would feel wrong to me to hear it when i'm viewing a support on Azure Moon), and they definitely leaned on that for Three Houses' early marketing. But since the game is out, they've treated the three more or less equally, and it's not in their interest to change that with how divided the fanbase seems to be. Byleth didn't deliver on the personality front, and Sothis didn't get the screentime she should have, but if one has to pick one face to represent the entire 3 houses and 4 routes, one of them makes the most sense.

(Speaking about the dissonance that sometimes happens between the narrative importance a character has and the screentime they get, Azura should be our Fates representative.)

I'd... maybe not welcome, but I wouldn't mind an Engage with four 3H representatives (though even that means a choice of gender for Byleth, unless we just replace them with Sothis, but even that is not ideal), if it meant an Engage with Marth and Tiki and Caeda (and/or Nyna, or Minerva), Alm and Celica, Sigurd and Seliph and Julia, Roy and Lilina (and Guinevere?), Lyn and Eliwood and Hector, both Renais twins, Ike and Micaiah and Elincia, Robin and Chrom and Lucina, and Corrin and Azura (and Ryoma and Xander, sure, okay), but that's either a game where they're nothing more than 2-bits reductions of themselves like (or even more than) in FEH, or a game where Engage's own cast is shafted to let the writers do the legacy characters justice. Making a hard rule of one character per game/universe is frustrating, but possibly the best way to strike a balance between the emblem characters and the new ones.

(That doesn't mean i think they will do them justice, I wish Ike wasn't in after how they wrote him in Fates, but one can hope.)

 

On 9/18/2022 at 12:51 AM, Jotari said:

You have one trailer narration a song, two things which have absolutely nothing to do with being a mascot (has pickachu ever narrated a trailer or sang a song?...well probably butbitd still be a masclt even if it hasn't)  in the face of overwhelming and consistent evidence of IS treating Edelgard as an equivalent to Claude and Dimitiri in terms of representation of the game.

(As it happens, yes, and it's exactly what you could expect.)

[Jotari]

42 minutes ago, Kori said:

Edelgard has more narrative importance than the other two lords, in that she is important even when you're not playing her route (sometimes in ways she shouldn't be - her theme appears in tracks that seem like they're common to all routes, but it would feel wrong to me to hear it when i'm viewing a support on Azure Moon), and they definitely leaned on that for Three Houses' early marketing. But since the game is out, they've treated the three more or less equally, and it's not in their interest to change that with how divided the fanbase seems to be. Byleth didn't deliver on the personality front, and Sothis didn't get the screentime she should have, but if one has to pick one face to represent the entire 3 houses and 4 routes, one of them makes the most sense.

(Speaking about the dissonance that sometimes happens between the narrative importance a character has and the screentime they get, Azura should be our Fates representative.)

I'd... maybe not welcome, but I wouldn't mind an Engage with four 3H representatives (though even that means a choice of gender for Byleth, unless we just replace them with Sothis, but even that is not ideal), if it meant an Engage with Marth and Tiki and Caeda (and/or Nyna, or Minerva), Alm and Celica, Sigurd and Seliph and Julia, Roy and Lilina (and Guinevere?), Lyn and Eliwood and Hector, both Renais twins, Ike and Micaiah and Elincia, Robin and Chrom and Lucina, and Corrin and Azura (and Ryoma and Xander, sure, okay), but that's either a game where they're nothing more than 2-bits reductions of themselves like (or even more than) in FEH, or a game where Engage's own cast is shafted to let the writers do the legacy characters justice. Making a hard rule of one character per game/universe is frustrating, but possibly the best way to strike a balance between the emblem characters and the new ones.

(That doesn't mean i think they will do them justice, I wish Ike wasn't in after how they wrote him in Fates, but one can hope.)

 

(As it happens, yes, and it's exactly what you could expect.)

Azura definitely could work as a choice. I think she has at least as much presence in Fates as Lucina does in Awakening. And being a dancer could be an interesting niche, depending on how the whole thing even works. Though Corrin can turn into a dragon which is also distinct.

[kratoscar2008]

Funny to see Lord stans infighting while we Bylads keep eating good.

In my opinion Edelgard isnt the mascot, heck she wasnt meant to have her own route. I fail to see how she is when she is irrelevant in most playthroughs as you barely interact with her in  White Clouds and then just makes sporadic apperances in the war phase.

Not that is relevant anyways as the mascot is decided by the creators,  not fans. Thats why Anna is the mascot of FE despite being mostly a background character.

Plus I wouldnt want a "hero" who turns people into demonic beasts, has the clear bad guys on their side and in their route, said bads destroy a city who then the "hero" deceives their friends by blaming the city's destruction on the church.

Also isnt Dimitri more popular? I remember him being S supported more than Edelgard and being him being one of the most popular Nintendo characters.

Regardless yeah Byleth is the best choice as they are clearly the protagonist who decides the fate of the routes.

[Dark Holy Elf]

40 minutes ago, kratoscar2008 said:

Also isnt Dimitri more popular? I remember him being S supported more than Edelgard and being him being one of the most popular Nintendo characters.

I'd be interested to see your source for the S support thing. It wouldn't completely stun me, but I would have guessed that Edelgard would have an advantage due to being S supportable by either gender, and also due to the fact that CF appears to be the most-played route based on available online game data ("who gets deployed most" / "taken to tea most" / "given gifts most" / etc. all favours Eagles characters).

Edelgard got more votes in CYL than Dimitri, which is probably the biggest sample size poll we have, but all polls are innately imperfect, because they tend to have self-selecting samples (e.g. is the type of person who votes in CYL broadly representative of all players? Probably not! And polls from individual magazines/websites are even worse). They're both very popular by the standards of Fire Emblem characters, certainly (significantly moreso than Byleth, which proves that popularity isn't the only thing they considered). And they're probably both fairly close overall.

"One of the most popular Nintendo characters"? I guess that depends how you define it. I don't think I'd go that far, for any FE character - that's a label I'd prefer to save for the likes of Mario / Link / Samus / Kirby / Pikachu.

45 minutes ago, kratoscar2008 said:

heck she wasnt meant to have her own route.

This is a bit of a nothing statement, since this was only the case very early in development; it changed long before the game was released, and then was doubled down on in Hopes.

Pikachu wasn't originally intended as the most important Pokemon either, and in his case, this change didn't even come about until after the original game's release. Not that I consider Edelgard as relevant as Pikachu by any measure, of course; just illustrating how silly it is to use early intentions as a guidepost.

[Maimishou]

On 9/17/2022 at 6:51 PM, Jotari said:

If you're not talking about poster child in the literal sense then what are you talking about?

I'm using it in the figurative sense which is obvious from my explanations of what makes her the poster child.

On 9/17/2022 at 7:31 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm a big Edelgard fan but it's pretty silly to claim she's the "poster child" of the game to the point where her not being on this mural is surprising.

No it's not. This thread was literally started because someone realized Byleth was chosen over her and as I've pointed out she's literally the character you're primed to associate the game with due to her being the focus of the first trailer and the game's theme song.

 

8 hours ago, Kori said:

Edelgard has more narrative importance than the other two lords, in that she is important even when you're not playing her route (sometimes in ways she shouldn't be - her theme appears in tracks that seem like they're common to all routes, but it would feel wrong to me to hear it when i'm viewing a support on Azure Moon), and they definitely leaned on that for Three Houses' early marketing. But since the game is out, they've treated the three more or less equally,

Exactly my point. Yes they might treat her and the other two as equals now, but they didn't before. They gave her her own dedicated trailer whereas the other two have to share every other trailer after the announcement trailer with her, the lone exceptions being the indivdual house trailers which they still have to share with the rest of the cast. The game's theme song is from her perspective. Neither of these things are coincidences. The early marketing of the game is priming you to associate the game with her. If that doesn't make her the mascot I don't know what does.  It doesn't matter that they shifted marketing focus later on when they set the game up to be heavily associated with Edelgard.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'd be interested to see your source for the S support thing. It wouldn't completely stun me, but I would have guessed that Edelgard would have an advantage due to being S supportable by either gender, and also due to the fact that CF appears to be the most-played route based on available online game data ("who gets deployed most" / "taken to tea most" / "given gifts most" / etc. all favours Eagles characters).

Edelgard got more votes in CYL than Dimitri, which is probably the biggest sample size poll we have, but all polls are innately imperfect, because they tend to have self-selecting samples (e.g. is the type of person who votes in CYL broadly representative of all players? Probably not! And polls from individual magazines/websites are even worse). They're both very popular by the standards of Fire Emblem characters, certainly (significantly moreso than Byleth, which proves that popularity isn't the only thing they considered). And they're probably both fairly close overall.

I doubt Crimson Flower is the most played route, given Black Eagles is the only route with a second route split which is going to divide Crimson Flower with Silver Snow. What online game data are you referring to (and I'm not sure that can even be taken as veritable as it's more than possible to play the game offline)?

3 hours ago, Maimishou said:

I'm using it in the figurative sense which is obvious from my explanations of what makes her the poster child.

And what's the difference between a literal and figurative sense for a marketing concept?

[Nio]

I don't really want to enter the Edelgard debate, but i want to point out some stuff from that old 3H Developer interview, in which is clarified that the first route was designed to show Edelgard progression and her becoming the antagonist and then the other protagonist were expanded. Also they wanted a character that guided the story and those usually are males so they decided to go the opposite way, in which they went with Edelgard.

 

I guess theres always room for interpretation, but at the very least i think it is 100% safe to say that Edelgard was the main focus for the developers when they created the game story. Does that makes her the protagonist or the poster child or anything like that? Guess it is up to anybody to decide but i dont think it is crazy to consider her the central piece in the game.

[Hrothgar777]

9 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

Plus I wouldnt want a "hero" who turns people into demonic beasts, has the clear bad guys on their side and in their route, said bads destroy a city who then the "hero" deceives their friends by blaming the city's destruction on the church.

This is definitely a stretch.

 

Most Fire Emblem are "value neutral" in terms of setting. Or that is, Marth and whoever can fight their war. No matter who wins it'll still be a fantasy Medieval-like world a thousand years later. And the same with Chrom and Sigurd and all them.

But this is the first game that actually shows us what the world could be like, if not for something or someone holding it back.

 

I've read enough scholarly and polemic literature to understand just how much worse life was for the average before the Industrial Revolution. By every single metric the quality of life has improved dramatically. Even North Korea is arguably better off than the average country from 400 years ago.

Today the world looks at North Korea and wishes that the people would just rise up against Kim Jong Un and end the local dystopian experiment. And it has lasted about 75-80 years. Rhea, in contrast, has kept Fodlan in its even more crude state for almost 1,200 years.

 

In the context of that reality, Edelgard is liberalism and modernity embodied in a person. She is "this world-soul, astride a horse, who reaches out over the world and masters it", or so the philosopher Hegel once said of Napoleon on horseback in the streets of Jena.

I'm not interested in jumping into this current flame war about mascots but honestly the Nintendo development team didn't think this through when they aimed to make 4 morally equivalent routes but made everyone except Edelgard into 14th century reactionaries.