Japanese Fire Emblem Twitter posts

[Crubat]

7 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Corrin's design was fanservicey, but it was also elegant. Alear was just drawn by someone with precisely zero talent.

okay thats plain wrong, do not diss the artist on this, it's all IS' doing.

[Cysx]

11 minutes ago, Crubat said:

okay thats plain wrong, do not diss the artist on this, it's all IS' doing.

Agreed, and also :

Spoiler

 

 

That's just a great piece, same for the other promotional artworks we got. I'd argue the 3D models (female Alear's specifically) are at fault, which has nothing to do with the artist. Even still, 3D modelling isn't easy.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Cysx

[KoriCongo]

43 minutes ago, Troublesome Knight said:

As a girl I can't help but feel like there's something very uncomfortable about people acting like a female character having obvious breasts as somehow inherently sexual/fanservice-y you know...

To be blunt, there's not many other reasons to have a character with obvious breasts. They aren't a "practical" choice, the modern zeitgeist would prefer more equivalent or asexual looks to character designs, and very few people understand how to read one's personality via design over actions and words. The only "acceptable" way of having obvious breasts would be for clear comedic or disturbing purposes, as if to "punish" the "male gaze". You can call sex-negative or body shaming, but you can't have a character with obvious primary/secondary sexual characteristics without it being seen as fetishy or appealing, whether female or male. 

...I say all this, but it is not like I am immune to big breasts~. Would actually prefer F!Alear having F!Byleth's size, if I had a say in her look.

14 minutes ago, Crubat said:

okay thats plain wrong, do not diss the artist on this, it's all IS' doing.

To play's Devil Advocate, Intelligent Systems give a lot of control to their artists. Out of the massive rotation of artists that have contributed to the franchise, very few have brought up feeling restricted or micromanaged to death by them. Many of their character designs have been accepted. It is very reasonable to specifically target the artists for overall design choices. You don't have to scapegoat the publisher/head company for every bad decision...

Of course, it is LUNACY to call Mika Pikasso a bad artist at all. Even if you don't like her designs or interpretation of "blue and red hair", it is very technically skilled with only a few oddities that we have seen so far, such as Vander's beard or Orange Axe Man's shrunken head, and that would fall into the lap of the 3D artists. She's an amazing artist, you can see why many people commission her for VTuber designs and why IntSys picked her up.

[Fabulously Olivier]

31 minutes ago, Crubat said:

okay thats plain wrong, do not diss the artist on this, it's all IS' doing.

Only to the point that Nintendo hired them on to a series where their style is completely outlandish, and not one where it would be normal.

 

It is wrong to harass the artist, as people have. That is never acceptable behavior. But it is not wrong to call out what you think is bad art.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[KoriCongo]

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Only to the point that Nintendo hired them on to a series where their style is completely outlandish, and not one where it would be normal (ie: Splatoon, or maybe even Pokemon). 

 

It is wrong to harass the artist, as people have. That is never acceptable behavior. But it is not wrong to call out what you think is bad art.

Please note that there are huge differences between "I don't like their style", "I don't think it is fitting", and "This is bad art".

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, KoriCongo said:

Please note that there are huge differences between "I don't like their style", "I don't think it is fitting", and "This is bad art".

So are we not allowed to call things bad art now? Because bad art definitely exists, and as a subjective medium, one must determine what they see as good art or bad art.

[Troublesome Knight]

15 minutes ago, KoriCongo said:

To be blunt, there's not many other reasons to have a character with obvious breasts. They aren't a "practical" choice, the modern zeitgeist would prefer more equivalent or asexual looks to character designs, and very few people understand how to read one's personality via design over actions and words. The only "acceptable" way of having obvious breasts would be for clear comedic or disturbing purposes, as if to "punish" the "male gaze". You can call sex-negative or body shaming, but you can't have a character with obvious primary/secondary sexual characteristics without it being seen as fetishy or appealing, whether female or male. 

That just sounds even worse. Also blatantly untrue. Also, what's even wrong with letting men have things anyway? People act like men will turn into rape monsters and stop thinking women are people if they see a boob like a red flag to a bull. Doesn't anyone think women want to have cute avatars too? What's even the point of having a male and female option if they look the same?

Edited October 15, 2022 by Troublesome Knight

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, Troublesome Knight said:

That just sounds even worse. Also blatantly untrue. Also, what's even wrong with letting men have things anyway? People act like men will turn into rape monsters and stop thinking women are people if they see a boob like a red flag to a bull. Doesn't anyone think women want to have cute avatars too?

 

14 minutes ago, KoriCongo said:

To be blunt, there's not many other reasons to have a character with obvious breasts. They aren't a "practical" choice, the modern zeitgeist would prefer more equivalent or asexual looks to character designs, and very few people understand how to read one's personality via design over actions and words. The only "acceptable" way of having obvious breasts would be for clear comedic or disturbing purposes, as if to "punish" the "male gaze". You can call sex-negative or body shaming, but you can't have a character with obvious primary/secondary sexual characteristics without it being seen as fetishy or appealing, whether female or male. 

Eesh. I see neither side of the breast size argument going anywhere good. All I'll say on the matter is that I feel it wrong to body shame characters for having body proportions that actual human beings naturally have. That's not a healthy road.

 

It's a lot worse to call someone's common, real-world body type impractical than it is to call someone's art bad, fam. It doesn't matter if it is meant to be appealing to an audience (all art should be - and when it isn't, that is when it is bad art). It doesn't even matter if the character is intentionally using their appearance to attract people. People do that, and it is normal.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Cysx said:

Agreed, and also :

  Hide contents

 

 

That's just a great piece,

If I didn't know this belonged to Fire Emblem Engage, I'd hazard a guess this was some hyperviolent anime with characters bathing in blood.

[Cysx]

2 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

If I didn't know this belonged to Fire Emblem Engage, I'd hazard a guess this was some hyperviolent anime with characters bathing in blood.

Er, really? Looks a bit too colorful to me.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Cysx

[eclipse]

3 hours ago, Cysx said:

Agreed, and also :

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

That's just a great piece, same for the other promotional artworks we got. I'd argue the 3D models (female Alear's specifically) are at fault, which has nothing to do with the artist. Even still, 3D modelling isn't easy.

I don't much care for how busy it is, but that's personal taste speaking.

---

This is the Twitter topic, not the gender studies topic.  If you want to argue the latter, do so via PM.

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

If I didn't know this belonged to Fire Emblem Engage, I'd hazard a guess this was some hyperviolent anime with characters bathing in blood.

I would have said generic gacha game from 5 years ago.

 

Also, no, I don't care for it either. There's certainly a nice use of background color, but it's masking how textureless and flat the characters' clothing is (which it also is ingame).

[KoriCongo]

6 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

So are we not allowed to call things bad art now? Because bad art definitely exists, and as a subjective medium, one must determine what they see as good art or bad art.

I am definitely a believer in objective qualities to art. I just find it hard to actually believe you are one of those people and not just salty, whether it is because you've done nothing to explain what makes it bad or even unfitting, or the fact that you botched your avatar so badly you can see the artifacting from a distance and you are okay with that...

No one is saying you have to like the style, nor are they saying that Fire Emblem has to be receptive to every artstyle in the world. But it is incredibly valid to say if you are going to call someone's art bad, you better actually throw your weight around and explain WHY it is bad and why those that are defending it are doing a disservice.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by KoriCongo

[Fabulously Olivier]

29 minutes ago, KoriCongo said:

I am definitely a believer in objective qualities to art. I just find it hard to actually believe you are one of those people and not just salty, whether it is because you've done nothing to explain what makes it bad or even unfitting, or the fact that you botched your avatar so badly you can see the artifacting from a distance and you are okay with that...

No one is saying you have to like the style, nor are they saying that Fire Emblem has to be receptive to every artstyle in the world. But it is incredibly valid to say if you are going to call someone's art bad, you better actually throw your weight around and explain WHY it is bad and why those that are defending it are doing a disservice.

 

My lack of personal computer/image cropping know-how is an entirely separate issue, thanks. Nor does one have to be an artist to be able to say something looks bad. If you ascribe to that notion, kindly drop all of your personal opinions on bad films, games, etc. unless you have an active career in said mediums.

 

By the same token, you are not doing an adequate job of explaining why this works for Fire Emblem. Maybe you should be the one to consider why, in a series with almost as many distinct art directions as games, this one still manages to stand out for good and for bad.

 

Nor am I going so far as to say anyone defending it is doing a disservice. That would just be a downright rude thing to say. Game design decisions of all kinds (be that art, difficulty, etc.) are generally a zero-sum game, and it's generally hard to please mutually exclusive interests without providing separate experiences.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Rose482]

I feel like regardless if you think the art direction of this game to be a good or a bad one, to say the artist has zero talent would be a bit too much. 

I personally do prefer Echoes's art style more to what we're getting in Engage, but I guess the good (or it could be bad) thing when it comes to Fire Emblem is that you can always count on them changing their artist by the next mainline game, so we really don't have to deal with a FE game looking exactly like this again, for better or worst. 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Rose482

[KoriCongo]

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

My lack of personal computer/image cropping know-how is an entirely separate issue, thanks. Nor does one have to be an artist to be able to say something looks bad. If you ascribe to that notion, kindly drop all of your personal opinions on bad films, games, etc. unless you have an active career in said mediums.

 

By the same token, you are not doing an adequate job of explaining why this works for Fire Emblem. Maybe you should be the one to consider why, in a series with almost as many distinct art directions as games, this one still manages to stand out for good and for bad.

 

Nor am I going so far as to say anyone defending it is doing a disservice. That would just be a downright rude thing to say. Game design decisions of all kinds (be that art, difficulty, etc.) are generally a zero-sum game, and it's generally hard to please mutually exclusive interests without providing separate experiences.

as if calling someone outright a bad artist is polite...

Excusing the fact that the burden of proof is on you to prove your claim of "Mike Pikasso is a bad artist", not mines, this works for Fire Emblem, at least its modern incarnation, because it likes wild designs. At least since Awakening, it is very focused on having very memorable-if-somewhat-impractical outfits compared to the more conservative looks of the GBA/Gamecube-era of Senri Kita and Wada Sachiko, whether it is Kozaki's jelly skellies, Hidari's weird feminine armor styles, or Chinatsu's intense otome game stares. I personally believe that IntSys took a lot of the criticism they get for their inclusion of Marth and Roy in Smash, how they are not visually interesting even compared to other humanoids to heart. They want to make sure every character has very interesting aspects to their designs. Even their classic artists like Kita and Sachiko get in on the fun, whether its Kita BUFFING the hell out of Altina or Sachiko really "puffing" up Karla in Heroes. 

Engage, being originally designed as an Anniversary title, have very little reason to be "restrained" in anything. It has to somehow integrate ideas from every mainline game from the franchise and still standout for itself. I think the more colorful, flamboyant art and designs for everyone both help show how different the game would be in its attempt to standout and showcase IntSys's mastery over the technical limitations of the Switch, compared to their obvious struggles with Three Houses. All without doing something drastic like Codename: STEAM or Tokyo Mirage Sessions in terms of style and presentation (and I wouldn't call either of those styles bad either).

I bring this up because when you call styles "generic", you are implying that so many people like the style that it HAS to be overdone, that other styles struggle to receive the popularity they deserve. That's why I mention "those that defend it are doing it a disservice". It is fundamentally a callout of a culture, whether popular or geographic, and you do have to acknowledge that you know why that culture is unhealthy for the zeitgeist as a whole. I.E. the massive Isekai fad in anime and manga and how it dilutes medieval fantasy writing and discussion...

and yes, I would say your personal image editing skills DO shoot your credibility down, if at least a notch or two. there's a difference between the classic "you don't need to be a chef to tell when food is burnt" and "telling the chef how to cook when you can't use a stove yourself"... Even your main critique of the major art piece is outright wrong, as textures such as gold, fabric, and ruffles are clearly visible despite the intense colors. It shows that you just don't know what you are talking about, and you are better off just saying "I don't like the art" over trying to prove you know what good and bad art looks like....

 

[Crubat]

horrible takes aside,

new NoA engage tweet, i dont think these are important enough to put in the main post

[ciphertul]

4 minutes ago, Crubat said:

horrible takes aside,

new NoA engage tweet, i dont think these are important enough to put in the main post

Confirms that it's always Marth for those who doubted it.

[Sentinel07]

Well at least it looks like they're finally doing something.

And if nothing else, we're getting screenshots of stuff outside the trailers, even if it is predictable stuff. 🙂

Edited October 15, 2022 by Sentinel07

[Seazas]

lmao, NOA is already getting more consistent than the JP account. 

10 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

So are we not allowed to call things bad art now? Because bad art definitely exists, and as a subjective medium, one must determine what they see as good art or bad art.

Sorry Oliver, it's objectively wrong to claim the artist has no talent. They're good at their craft, damn good. It's just not preferable in terms of design.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Seazas

[eclipse]

I'm in this thread twice in less than 12 hours to do Mod Stuff.

"No talent" may be objectively wrong, but again, this isn't the thread of objective truths.  It's also fine to dislike the art style.  I have my own issues with how the art is drawn, but I don't think my input will be particularly helpful.  What I can say is that the artist drew their characters with proper spines, and that's always good to see.

---

Now, for what I'd like to post as a user.

1 hour ago, Crubat said:

horrible takes aside,

new NoA engage tweet, i dont think these are important enough to put in the main post

Kinda wondering if this thread should just be renamed "the Twitter post" (or something like that), since NoA finally woke up.

[Crubat]

4 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Kinda wondering if this thread should just be renamed "the Twitter post" (or something like that), since NoA finally woke up.

Maybe, but seeing that they're just reposting stuff and all we're truly getting from this are the new screenshots, idk if we wanna update main post with it, up to everyone else. They haven't even started talking about the characters apart from Alear lol

Edited October 15, 2022 by Crubat

[KoriCongo]

I would say it would make sense to rename it as Twitter information.

If Three Houses was any indication, NoA will round up JP information and have it own look at stuff, it will just take another week or two.

[Sentinel07]

As for my opinion on art takes, I'd say debate is fine so long as no one pulls the objective card.

Personally, I hate Engages art style and have found very little from Mika Pikazo that I like in general, but that is merely own subjective opinion and represents no views but my own.

As for the section here, renaming it to Twitter information sounds good, and we can leave updating the first post to if NoA shows anything major.

[Vexal]

When it comes to Alear's design....It's fine for the most part, only gripe I have is F!Alear's a bit too....form-fitting. That and the model for either Alear just doesn't look that great. In the actual artwork for the game they look great imo. Specifically it's something about the face for their models that just feels weird but I can't think of what is causing them to look so weird in-game, as everyone else looks fine.

As for the topic name, I think changing it from "Japanese twitter posts" to just "Twitter posts" is a good idea, as correct me if I'm wrong, but the screen for the gender choice is completely new, so we may see things that weren't gleamed from the Japanese tweets, or were completely absent.