Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted October 15, 2022 Author Share Posted October 15, 2022 Personally, I really enjoyed doing the Recon Missions. It's hide-and-seek at its core, and it's the one activity that actually takes advantage of how sstupidly oversized the monastery is. That said... 7 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said: Given the massive disparity in scoring patterns for Essar Research Group, I also wonder whether there is any point in @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate coming to an aggregate score - the average score won't reflect the battalion-specific reasons why people rated it 0 or N/A. 8 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said: Essbar Research Group: N/A. I don't have online services, so I wouldn't have any way to obtain it normally. Based off it's stats I'd give it an easy 8/10, but I have no idea how obtainable it is. Personally, I don't think this battalion should be rated at all just because I don't think anyone here has actually used it. 9 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said: Essar Research Group: ??? I've never done an online liason mission. They sound boring. And you have to do four of them? I'm... definitely leaning towards scoring this similarly to lenticular, but feel unqualified to weigh in on content I haven't done myself. Abstain for now. 12 hours ago, SnowFire said: Essar Research Group: 8/10 if gotten early, 6/10 if gotten later? With the reception they've gotten, I'm considering leaving the Essar Research Group unrated. It would be an unprecedented step, admittedly, but this battalion is so unique and peculiar in how it's acquired that I don't think refusing to rank it would set a problematic precedent. And thematically, it'd be pretty fitting for this one, of all battalions, to not get a clear rating. 10 hours ago, lenticular said: For the record, if a battalion existed that was unlocked through tea parties or fishing, I would probably give it the same score.) What, you mean you've never gotten Flayn's Fishy Forces Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Swimfantry Availability: From chapter 3 onward (all routes), catch 5 more Carassius, then talk to Flayn Gambit: Poisson Tactic Endurance: 75 Phys: +1 / +3 Mag: +3 / +5 Hit: 0 Crit: 0 Avo: +5 / +15 Prt: 0 Rsl: +5 / +9 Cha: +3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 Hey folks - no new round today. I've just been caught up with a bunch of real-life stuff this weekend. I should be able to post it tomorrow, though. As a prelude, here are the battalions we'll be covering: Spoiler Empire Cavalry Empire Armored Co. Empire Pegasus Co. Empire Snipers Empire Magic Users Empire Pavise Co. Empire Wyvern Co. Feel free to think about these, and get your thoughts ready if you feel like it. In any case, have a great evening, and I hope to see you around soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 Welcome back, everybody! I may be a bit late, but it's time for a new round today! After, of course, the results show: Spoiler Essar Research Group received NaN grades, averaging out to <Null>. Nuvelle Chamberlain Co. received 6 grades, averaging out to 7.525. Nuvelle Attendants Co. received 6 grades, averaging out to 7.333. Nuvelle Stewards Co. received 6 grades, averaging out to 6.733. Seiros Brawlers received 6 grades, averaging out to 2.117. Seiros Armored Co. received 6 grades, averaging out to 2.45. So, while the Nuvelle battalions got some fairly solid reviews, the latter-day Seiros battalions seemed to underwhelm. And the Essar Research Group remain a serial enigma. Round 8: Imperial Icons Today, we'll be looking at seven more battalions. Starting in chapter 8, you can hire them from the Battalion Guild... but only if you chose to lead the Black Eagles. What do these Imperial battalions look like? Empire Cavalry Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Cavalry Availability: From chapter 8 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold Gambit: Assault Troop Endurance: 45 Phys: +2 / +4 Mag: -2 Hit: 0 Crit: 0 Avo: 0 / +5 Prt: +2 / +4 Rsl: 0 Cha: +3 Empire Armored Co. Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Armor Availability: From chapter 8 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold Gambit: Impregnable Wall Endurance: 60 Phys: +1 / +3 Mag: -2 Hit: 0 / +5 Crit: 0 Avo: -10 Prt: +3 / +5 Rsl: 0 Cha: +3 Empire Pegasus Co. Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Fliers Availability: From chapter 8 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Group Lance Attack Endurance: 60 Phys: +2 / +4 Mag: 0 Hit: +10 / +15 Crit: 0 Avo: 0 Prt: +1 / +3 Rsl: +2 / +4 Cha: +6 Empire Snipers Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Flash-Fire Arrows Endurance: 60 Phys: +3 / +5 Mag: -2 Hit: +5 / +10 Crit: 0 Avo: 0 Prt: +1 / +3 Rsl: 0 Cha: +5 Empire Magic Users Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Resonant Flames Endurance: 45 Phys: -2 Mag: +3 / +5 Hit: 0 Crit: +5 / +10 Avo: 0 Prt: 0 Rsl: +2 / +4 Cha: +5 Empire Pavise Co. Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Armor Availability: From chapter 8 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Blaze Endurance: 75 Phys: 0 / +2 Mag: -2 Hit: 0 / +5 Crit: 0 Avo: -10 Prt: +4 / +6 Rsl: +1 Cha: +5 Empire Wyvern Co. Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Flier Availability: From chapter 8 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Reversal Endurance: 60 Phys: +3 / +5 Mag: -2 Hit: +5 Crit: +5 / +10 Avo: 0 Prt: +2 / +4 Rsl: 0 Cha: +5 Now, how do I feel about these battalions? The reviews are included below. Spoiler Availability: All of these battalions become available in chapter 8. There's still a lot of game to go, but this means they're unusable for the tough early- and mid-pre-skip chapters, and won't be fully-leveled without more effort. As such, I believe 3 is appropriate for this cohort. Accessibility: Empire Pegasus Co. are D-rank Fliers, so they get a 5. It's always nice to have something to put on your low-level fliers. Empire Cavalry and Empire Armored Co. are grounded D-rank battalions, which is good for 4. Most of your grounded units will be able to equip them by jointime. Empire Wyvern Co. are C-rank Fliers, so they get a 4. Perhaps your flier can proceed from the D-rank battalion to this one? Finally, Empire Snipers, Empire Magic Users, and Empire Pavise Co., are all grounded C-rank battalions, earning each of them a 3. Gambit: Empire Cavalry offer Assault Troop. A fairly common gambit, but it offers a good balance of power and area-of-effect. That's good for 5. Empire Armored Co. introduce Impregnable Wall, a unique support gambit that lets its targets survive against even the toughest of foes. That's worth a strong 8. Empire Pegasus Co. provide Group Lance Attack. It's a rather weak gambit, so it earns a 3. Empire Snipers provide Flash-Fire Arrows, a rarer (and arguably better) variant of Assault Troop. That warrants a 6. Empire Magic Users introduce Resonant Flames into the mix, the most accurate wider-range magical gambit. As the best magical gambit in the game, I give it an 8. Empire Pavise Co. provide Blaze. We've already seen this gambit, but its large range warrants at least a 5. Finally, Empire Wyvern Co. use the elusive Reversal gambit. Known for its small area-of-effect and tendency to glitch, this doesn't rise above a 2. Stats: Empire Cavalry offer up to +4 each in Attack and Protection, plus +5 Avoid and +3 Charm. But it comes at a cost of -2 Magic. Not bad, but nothing too standout, so it gets 4. Empire Armored Co. get +3 Attack and +5 Protection, along with +5 Hit... but they suffer -10 Avoid and -2 Magic. This feels pretty lateral, so they get 4 as well. Empire Pegasus Co. provide +4 Attack, +15 Hit, +3 Protection, +4 Resilience, and they round it out with an uncharacteristic +6 Charm. Perhaps Fliers being locked to Flying battalions would be a nerf, if they didn't have far better stats than their peers! Seriously, with this loaded spread I don't think anything less than a 6 is appropriate. Empire Snipers combine a healthy +5 Attack and +3 Protection with +10 Hit, but at the cost of -2 Magic. I would say 5 is fair for this one. Empire Magic Users flip the script, by providing +5 Magic, +10 Crit, and +4 Resilience... but at a cost of -2 Attack. It's solid enough for a magical attacker, so let's give them 5. Empire Pavise Co. only offer +2 Attack, and fall behind with -2 Magic and -10 Avoid... but the standout here is +6 Protection. Aided by +1 Resilience, it's a decent enough pick for defense-stacking, so that earns it a 4. Finally, Empire Wyvern Co. grants a comfortable +5 Attack, +5 Hit, +10 Crit, and +4 Prt, albeit at a cost of -2 Magic. It's relatively lateral from Empire Pegasus Co. for physical attackers, so I'll give it a 6 as well. Uniqueness: Empire Armored Co., Empire Pegasus Co., and Empire Wyvern Co. are each the only battalions that offer their respective gambits (Impregnable Wall, Group Lance Attack, and Reversal) on Black Eagle playthroughs. That means they're each deserving of a 3. Empire Snipers don't have exclusive access to Flash-Fire Arrows, but they are the only ones who provide it during the pre-skip. That warrants a 2. Empire Magic Users may be your first source of Resonant Flames (you can technically get Timotheos Magic Corps sooner), but there aren't a ton of Magic-boosting battalions. Likewise, while Empire Pavise Co. are largely underwhelming, their high defense boost is quite uncommon. As such, they each earn 1. This leaves Empire Cavalry the odd bunch out. You already have Assault Troop, and none of their boosts are exceptional, either for their jointime or their rank. They get 0 here. Convenience: Just hire them at the Battalion Guild. They each earn a 2. Endurance: Empire Pavise Co. have a meaty 75 durability, so they get a 2. As for the rest, they have 60 (Empire Armored Co, Empire Pegasus Co, Empire Snipers, Empire Wyvern Co) or 45 (Empire Cavalry, Empire Magic Users), warranting 1 each. Experience: Empire Cavalry... I honestly have no memory of this battalion. Maybe I used 'em, maybe I didn't. 0 points. With Empire Armored Co., there's always a place for an Impregnable Wall user on my team. It's probably my second-most-used support gambit, after Stride. This squad is seeing use nearly every chapter, so they get a 2. Empire Pegasus Co. are a very strong battalion for their joining rank. Their stats are great, and it's not like D-Authority fliers have many options. Stronger flying battalions (with better gambits) become available later on, but for their pre-skip utility, they get a 1. Empire Snipers provide boosts to Hit and Physical Attack, alongside one of the better attacking gambits. That gives them some use if I want that particular gambit, for a 1. Empire Magic Users are a great pick for my Mage (say Hubert, or Dorothea), especially if I haven't yet beaten the paralogues that award magical battalions. It doesn't really hold up post-skip, but it has its pre-skip uses, so that's good for 1. Empire Pavise Co. have a couple things to their credit. Blaze isn't super-common (and as a one-use gambit, it's nice to have a second copy), while the defense boost can help on my defensive tank of choice (out-of-house Balthus?). So that's good for 1. Finally, Empire Wyvern Co. enter the chat. Reversal sucks, but the stat boosts are nice enough. And your fliers with C-rank Authority don't have a ton of options yet. They get 1. Final Scores; Empire Cavalry: 3 + 4 + (2 * 5) + 4 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 24 -> 4.8 Empire Armored Co.: 3 + 4 + (2 * 8 ) + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 35 -> 7.0 Empire Pegasus Co.: 3 + 5 + 3 + (2 * 6) + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 30 -> 6.0 Empire Snipers: 3 + 3 + (2 * 6) + 5 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 29 -> 5.8 Empire Magic Users: 3 + 3 + (2 * 8 ) + 5 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 32 -> 6.4 Empire Pavise Co.: 3 + 3 + (2 * 5) + 4 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 26 -> 5.2 Empire Wyvern Co.: 3 + 4 + 2 + (2 * 6) + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 28 -> 5.6 In any case, let me know what you think! And, thanks for reading as ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Interesting group. Three of these are great, one is worth using because it's a flying battalion, and the other three are... remarkably similar to each other, and all mediocre. Empire Cavalry: 4 stats, 6 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 8. It's a knight battalion with slightly worse stats, but D rank! ... and in Chapter 8. Would have been very solid earlier. In a vacuum: 5.5. Adjusted: 3/10. Empire Armored Co.: 4 stats, 8 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 8. The Empire's source of Impregnable Wall, a good gambit which gives it a unique niche. The poor stats give me pause and makes it a battle-to-battle thing for me, but it maintains use through to the end of the game, which is nice. In a vacuum: 7. Adjusted: 7.5/10. Empire Pegasus Co.: 6 stats, 3 gambit. D rank flying, Chapter 8. Flying battalion! This is good. Its stats are slightly better than its Seiros equivalent, great hit/charm and solid elsewhere. As the best flying battalion below B rank (IMO), you're extremely likely to use it, but if you're only using a modest number of fliers, you'll eventually try to upgrade out of it. In a vacuum: 5. Adjusted: 7.5/10. Empire Snipers: 6 stats, 6 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 8. Despite its name, it's basically a knight battalion: C rank, 5 atk/5 charm, and a solid gambit (in this case, an Assault Troop remix). You already have two of these, though, so there's limited reason to level up this one, unless you have a major glut of physical grounded units who all happen to be at C rank exactly. It... could happen, especially if you don't plan on doing many paralogues and don't have the DLC. But not too likely. In a vacuum: 6.5. Adjusted: 4/10. Empire Magic Users: 5 stats, 9 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 8. A must-buy. The gambit breaks Part 1 paralogues in half, almost all of them have one or two key "tricky" turns where a swarm of enemies rush you (or try to escape from you) at once, and this lets you stun them all (and usually one-shot the primary target). Stats could definitely be better (obviously inferior to Gloucester and various DLC battalions), but they're an upgrade on everything else your mages are using when you can first buy it. In a vacuum: 7.5. Adjusted: 8/10. Empire Pavise Co.: 4 stats, 6 gambit Another "knight" battalion, notable for being your first source of 6 prot. To pay for that, its other stats are lower than you'd expect, particularly its 2 atk (starts at 0 at base level, ew). Has a niche use on dedicated def-tank but I probably wouldn't bother. In a vacuum: 5.5. Adjusted: 3/10. Empire Wyvern Co.: 6 stats, 1 gambit Just worse than Empire Pegasus, weirdly? Oh sure, +1 atk on them is appreciated, but its stats are actually lower overall otherwise (particularly for any flier using their magic stat, such as an early Dark Flier), and its gambit is bugged. And it's C rank instead of D. That said? Still solid because it's potentially one of three battalions a flier can use at this point. In a vacuum: 4. Adjusted: 6/10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haarhaarhaar Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Empire Cavalry - 3.5/10 Its stats aren't particularly competitive given it arrives in Chapter 8. Might see some use because we're now in the middle of paralogue season, which is the push to get as many units to C rank Authority as I can, but won't survive beyond that. Empire Armored Co. - 6/10 Impregnable Wall is never a must-have gambit in my opinion, but it's still obviously great, netting this battalion a 6. +5 protection is fine, especially if you've been recruiting physical units, although its stats alone won't keep the battalion in your army for very long. Empire Pegasus Co. - 6/10 A dearth of flying battalions, and that this is better than Seiros Pegasus Co., mean this battalion is guaranteed use for a while. However, its delayed availability compared to its Seiros equivalent means it won't get a higher score than 6. Empire Snipers - 3.5/10 Not a strong battalion for C-rank, and not having Fusillade despite being an archer-themed battalion hurts it too (although I do like the idea of Flash-Fire Arrows). Limited use if at all. Empire Magic Users - 8/10 Top-tier gambit chapters earlier than Vestra (you might not get its equivalent at all if you go SS), and a solid magic boost. Hubert and Constance are both obvious choices, allowing you to send Nuvelle Attendants to a magic attacker of choice. It might get benched at some point, but its main use is making Part 1 paralogues easier, and for that it deserves its 8. Empire Pavise Co. - 4/10 Blaze and +6 Prt stand out here. Other sources of Blaze or better (beyond the ones you have already) aren't far off now though, so +6 Prt is the only particularly unique selling point. I could see you giving this to Balthus or Alois, but it's unlikely to become a regular. Empire Wyvern Co. - 6/10 Strongest buff to physical attack of your flying battalions so far. I think this battalion is better for flier Edelgard than Empire Pegasus, but Empire Pegasus is better for flier Petra (and those are the two most common physical flier builds in BE), so it'll get an equivalent score, despite being locked behind C-rank authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 As I've mentioned before, I don't tend to recruit units that I'm not planning to use. And the native Black Eagles students do not get any battalions from paralogues in Part 1. Most of them have their paralogues in Part 2, with the lone exception, Dorothea, not getting a battalion from her paralogue. (Aside: I find this very odd about Dorothea. The only other students whose paralogues don't give a battalion are Claude and Hubert, both of whom get their own personal battalions auto assigned at the start of Part 2. Even among non-student, it's pretty rare. By my count, the only other characters who don't get a battalion from their paralogue are Catherine, Gilbert, Jeritza, and Byleth. I wonder if the original design intent was to have the Opera Co. Volunteers available as Dorothea's paralogue reward battalion, but they decided that Dance of the Goddess was too powerful to be giving out as early as Chapter 7? Regardless, I do wish that Dorothea got more from her paralogue than just a Goddess Ring.) Anyway, while it is probable that I will be recruiting at least some people with White Clouds paralogues, it isn't entirely guaranteed (except for Flayn), and there probably won't be many of them. That means that these battalions are seeing less competition than they would if we were playing as one of the other houses, which makes them relatively better than they would be on other routes. Empire Cavalary: 2/10. A D-rank battalion that arrives in Chapter 8 had better do something spectacular or unique. This does not, which means that it isn't good. Empire Armored Co: 6.5/10. On the other hand, this one does, in the form of Impregnable Wall. Though, I admit that this is hard for me to rate. Impregnable wall is a very strong gambit... but I find that I seldom actually use it. I don't know why. It's super good. I just... don't? Maybe it's a play style thing? So I'm left stuck between rating this based on how much use I personally get from it (where it would score lower) and how objectively good I think that it probably is (where it would score higher). My final score is an unsatisfying compromise, but I can't think of any better way to handle this. Empire Pegasus Co: 7.5/10. Another D rank battalion, but this one's selling point is that it's flying, which is automatically enough to catapult it out of the lower ranks and into usability. Unless you've either recruited Ingrid or managed to get up to A rank authority for Cichol Wyverns, this is probably the best flying battalion you have available in Part 1. And depending on which units you recruit and how many fliers you're running, it's not ridiculous to suggest that this might still be seeing use into endgame. Empire Snipers: 5/10. While I do largely agree with Dark Holy Elf's analysis, I think that I might be a little more likely to use this battalion than they are, given how I'm probably getting fewer paralogue battalions. It's still hard to get excited about what is essentially another copy of a battalion that we had two of 5 chapters ago. Empire Magic Users: 8/10. First off, I just want to say that the name on this is pretty awful. "Magic Users"? Really? That was the best you could come up with? Oh well. I won't hold it against them in my ranking. And this is really good. +5 Magic Attack and +5 Charm are both very competitive for that authority rank and the recruitment chapter, and the gambit is a great one. This is almost certainly seeing play -- and being very strong -- from the moment that it becomes available, and is another one that might conceivably last until end game. It depends on how many mages you're running, who you're recruiting, and the relative value weighting of gambits and stats, but I'm pretty sure that I have run this right up to the end of the game without it feeling out of place. Empire Pavise Co: 4/10. Like the Snipers but not as good. Yes, they have more prot, but they give up might, hit, and avoid in order to get it. And their gambit is one that we already have two copies of from the knights battalions from Chapter 3. Yeah, the niche of putting these onto an armour tank does technically exist, but no, I don't really believe in it. Empire Wyvern Co: 6.5/10. I'm finding it a little tricky to objectively grade these, just by virtue of them coming in at the same time as the Empire Pegasus Co. My initial gut reaction is to see that these require C authority but have overall worse stats and a worse gambit than a similar battalion that comesw available at the same time but only requires D authority, and to therefore think that this must be awful. But no, is isn't. It's still a flying battalion, there still aren't many alternatives, the stats are still OK, the gambit is still... well, OK, the gambit is pretty awful. But overall, this is a solid battalion, even if it is immediately overshadowed. (Another aside: Is anyone else having trouble deciding whether to refer to battalions in the singular or the plural? I find myself wanting to type "The Empire Snipers are a mediocre battalion" but also "Let's talk about the Empire Snipers. This battalion is mediocre." I think I'm switching between "it" and "they" when talking about battalions as well, and the inconsistency is irritating me.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowFire Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Belated reply: I'm with lenticular on assuming that the player doesn't necessarily go on a recruitment spree, so they might not have Lorenz or Balthus for Gloucester Knights / Leister Dicers. I do agree that Leicester Dicers is pretty great, but I also don't think Nuvelle Stewards is a massive step down from them or anything, and it is C-rank Authority available so might have a niche while Authority is built anyway since GK requires B-Authority. (But yeah, I'm definitely still on team "All the Nuvelle battalions are insane" per scores.) I do think assuming you recruited some extra students + their associated battalions is reasonable, of course, just not necessarily specific ones. Empire Cavalry: 2/10. Doesn't really do anything notable you couldn't have built from C3 battalions earlier. Empire Armored Co: 8/10. Stats are trash, but I feel like battalions with game-changing gambits like Impregnable Wall are hard to go below 8/10. And this is the Eagles' only source of it. It let me watch Nader quad Edelgard with a Brave Axe for 4 damage rather than like 120 damage, so there's that. Not as good as the Alliance Wyverns with IW but oh well. Empire Pegasus Co: 7/10. Weirdly solid for a D rank battalion per everyone else. Not inclined to assume you recruit Ingrid, which raises its stock due to the flying battalion crunch. Empire Snipers: 4/10. Not really that different from Empire Knights per Elf, which is okay but you already could have built those and some good Paralogue battalions will probably roll in shortly. Empire Magic Users: 7/10. They're good if you care about the Gambit, sure. I will note that I'm personally more willing to take Nuvelle Attendants over this for a worse Gambit but +3 Magic Attack at the same Authority threshold, joining just 1 chapter later. I'll grudgingly give 'em a 7 partially because the Eagles do run 3 mages by default (even in SS, you'll get Flayn to replace Hubert I guess) so every decent battalion helps. Empire Pavise Co: 3/10. I'm not a fan. It's okay if you're building a super-tank Armor Knight but we know we're in the Eagles and Edelgard is really the only unit who can credibly pull that off, and I feel like Edelgard doesn't want such a paltry Str boost. Empire Wyvern Co: 6/10. Not quite as good as the Pegasus Co., but absolutely still usable. Flayn's Fishy Forces: 7/10. It's a weird Nuvelle Attendants variant; usable. Good if you absolutely want to sandbag some mages with the better Resilience and acceptable Mag, but probably you'll find better stuff by the timeskip. But let's face facts, the real reason to use it is to watch the animation on Poisson Attack with the goofy French stereotypes wearing berets catapulting fish bombs. (Does "France" even exist somewhere in the world of Fodlan? Maybe Morfis?) 2 hours ago, lenticular said: (Another aside: Is anyone else having trouble deciding whether to refer to battalions in the singular or the plural? I find myself wanting to type "The Empire Snipers are a mediocre battalion" but also "Let's talk about the Empire Snipers. This battalion is mediocre." I think I'm switching between "it" and "they" when talking about battalions as well, and the inconsistency is irritating me.) It's a famous AmEnglish vs. BrEnglish split: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun#Metonymic_merging_of_grammatical_number Basically, singular is always acceptable, and plural may be acceptable if you're British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, SnowFire said: They're good if you care about the Gambit, sure. I will note that I'm personally more willing to take Nuvelle Attendants over this for a worse Gambit but +3 Magic Attack at the same Authority threshold, joining just 1 chapter later. I'll grudgingly give 'em a 7 partially because the Eagles do run 3 mages by default (even in SS, you'll get Flayn to replace Hubert I guess) so every decent battalion helps. Well you gave Nuvelle a 9 so given that this battalion is, at most, slightly worse, I don't really see why a 7 would need to be grudging. Personally I think Empire Magic Users is actually better, but it's close enough I can see disagreeing. To elaborate: +3 magic attack is cool, but how many extra kills will that let you snag? Because by not having access to a gambit, you're most likely giving up one. Resonant Flames has 6 might, +5 if your name is Hubert, + Charm/5 + (6 if you set Authority Lv 3) + (1-4 for each ally in range depending on support rank, with a max potential of +12 pre-timeskip). This hits far harder than most spells, and has greater range than combat arts. So you're most likely going to one-shot an enemy you otherwise couldn't with it (unless you decide to use it for an action you judge even better). It's possible that for certain fights, +3 magic actually lets you snag multiple extra kills you wouldn't otherwise (it depends on exactly where the stats fall). So at that point, there's absolutely a case that Nuvelle is better. Even then, though, I think it's reasonably competitive, because "one-shot one enemy and damage/rattle a giant AoE at the same time" is an incredibly powerful action, stronger than any offensive action normally available. And if that +3 magic isn't snagging you multiple extra kills? At that point it's a pretty clear win for Empire Magic Users in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowFire Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Yeah, fair that Hubert specifically does want to use a damage gambit due to his passive and we know we're on Eagles for these battalions. Still, there's Dorothea / Linhardt / SS Flayn / Recruited mages like Constance / Hapi / Hanneman to consider, most of whom would be happy to take the extra magic might. Dorothea is interesting since it's a "waste" of her good charm, but her magic growth is a little worse than some of the more hardcore mages, so she may appreciate the extra might anyway. I'lll grant that if we bake in *really* knowing our stuff, the gap (for me) would close somewhat, since loosely speaking "long" maps like C5 reward stats on a battalion, while "short" maps where you're blitzing to assassinate a boss in 5 turns tend to reward good single-use gambits like Resonant Flames more. And once you know the game well, you're probably able to close maps out more quickly, which shifts the balance more toward good damage gambits than long-term consistency. (Of course, at risk of spoilers, Timotheos Magic Corps is coming up, another DLC battalion that combines both 8 Magic Attack AND Resonant Flames! B-Authority, though.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneRecon400 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Empire Calvary: 4/10. +4 Atk and Def are not going to cut when you re starting to unlock Paralogue battalions. Empire Armored Corp: 8/10. While the battalion it self is pretty lackluster, Impregenable Wall is a real game changer. Not only can it make any unit capable of surviving any enemy phase, it also serves a lot of other useful roles as well. It can protect Vengeance users from siege equipment, it can help boost the rate of class masteries, it can divert enemies to attack a Wrath user rather than another unit, it can be used to deny same turn reinforcements, etc. That gambit opens up so many alternative strategies that would otherwise not be possible that giving it any lower of score would be undervaluing it imo. Empire Pegasus Corp: 7.5/10. I have to agree with Dark Holy Elf that this is the best non B rank flying battalion. +15 hit is par with most B and A rank battalions, and the fact that it's only D rank only amplifies how good it is. Really, it's enough to take it to endgame when paired with a powerful combat art like Venegnce or Swift Strikes. Empire Wyvern Co: 6.5/10. It's amazing how this is pretty much on par with Empire Cavs, but because it has a pair of wings, the score increases by an entire quarter. Empire Snipers: 6/10. And we can see the opposite of that as well. It's an alright battalion, but outside of giving hit, it's just another decent stat stick. Empire Pavise: 4.5/10. While I do agree it's not very good in general, I am going to have to give a shout out for enabling Def Stacking on a Fortress Knight for Hunting by Daybreak. Enabling a unit like Caspar to do something useful in that chapter does give it a concrete, if extremely niche, use I say. Empire Magic Users: 5/10. I find this battalion to be pretty meh since I only really evaluate by it's stats. By the time Chapter 8 rolls around, I typically have units focused on enemy phase already set up, so offensive gambits fall by the wayside in terms of usefulness pretty drastically. If you played without enemy phase units, I can see why you'd rate this battalion higher for paralogue maps. But even then, the Black Eagles are not going to be fighting many paralogues if you're not going to recruit out of house like a lot of people here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haarhaarhaar Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, lenticular said: First off, I just want to say that the name on this is pretty awful. "Magic Users"? Really? That was the best you could come up with? Oh well. I won't hold it against them in my ranking. In the Japanese, Magic Users is 魔道士隊 and Magic Corps (the battalion type one tier below) is 魔法隊. 魔法 translates pretty directly to magic and 隊 just means squad, whereas 魔道士 has quite a few possible translations (I've seen mage, wizard, sorcerer and others too). The 魔 indicates magic, 道 points to it being a discipline, and 士 suggests professionalisation. But I don't think they could stick magic in front of an English word for a combat-related professional (i.e. Magic Fighter, Warrior) because fighter/warrior etc. already have specific meanings within 3H. Other stand-alone translations (wizard, sorcerer, etc.) risk either evoking something stronger than what the battalion represents, or a specific concept that doesn't exist in 3H to begin with. I think the reason they didn't go with Mage Corps is because it'd be too similar in name to Magic Corps. As for just calling them Empire/Kingdom/Alliance Mages, I think they were worried that that would undersell the battalion. Note that the names of Beginner Classes map on to some names for E-rank battalions (Church of Seiros Soldiers), Intermediate classes for D-rank battalions (Seiros Brawlers), Advanced for C-rank (Empire Snipers), Master for B-rank (Holy Knights of Seiros) and then they go with proper nouns/lore references and names that otherwise don't reflect classes for A-rank (Macuil Evil Repelling Co.). I'm not sure whether the hierarchy captures every battalion name, and I know there are some exceptions, like Cethleann Monks, (although the Japanese is quite different for the "monks" in Cethleann Monks and the Beginner class Monk) but it gets a lot of them. I think this was probably on purpose, and potentially so the player could have a rough idea of whether a unit can equip a battalion just by looking at its name and the unit's authority. Well, it's all just my speculation, and it's an obsolete feature given unequippable battalions are greyed out anyway. There are also Japanese terms with similar meanings but different nuances (魔術師, 魔法使い) that a translator may not have wanted to tread on the toes of, in case the terms appeared elsewhere in the game. So yeah, there are surprisingly significant challenges in how to translate 魔道士, bringing across the relevant meanings without over-selling a C-rank battalion or confusing the player. Magic Users looks like the (relatively lo-fi) compromise they came to. Not sure why they didn't go with Empire Warlocks or Warlock Corps - but that doesn't sound amazing anyway IMO. EDIT: Just looked up warlock, apparently it used to mean, or still means, a male-only mage. So yeah, the gender-lock screws things up again, but in a completely different way. Edited October 18, 2022 by haarhaarhaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 The different relative weights that people are giving to gambits and stats are really interesting to me, and I can definitely see both sides of the argument. For me, I definitely tend to favour strong gambits, because I value the concentration of power that they offer. As an example, let's compare the Nuvelle Attendants and the Empire Magic Users. The former has strictly better stats, whereas I think it's fairly uncontroversial that the latter has the better gambit. Let us say, for sake of argument, that the stats on Nuvelle Attendants make a unit 10% better on every turn, but the gambit on the Empire Magic Users makes a unit 50% better for one out of every five turns. Now, these numbers are totally plucked out of the air and aren't meant to be accurate, but are just there to illustrate my point. Now, ostensibly, these two options should be equivalent, but I value the 50% for one turn more because it lets me deliver all that extra power onto the turns where I really need it. A lot of turns in any Fire Emblem game are fairly easy and inconsequential. Not all that much is going on, and the only way I'm going to fail or lose a unit is if I'm not paying attention and make a boneheaded mistake. In these cases, having a 10% boost isn't going to make much of a difference to me since I'm succeeding anyway. But then there are occasional turns which are genuinely difficult. Maybe it's a tough boss, a big wave of enemies, or a mess of my own making by risky play on a previous turn. On these occasions, the 10% boost is also probably not all that useful, since it's not going to be enough to make a big difference. The 50% boost, on the other hand, often can be enough to make the difference and salvaging what otherwise might have been a loss. It's the same overall increase in power, but the gambit lets me deliver that power to exactly where I need it. This is a deliberately simplistic analysis, of course. If you wanted a definitive answer as to which of these two battalions was better for a given unit, you'd have to do a much deeper dive examining stats, looking at different break points, considering each chapter in turn, comparing different play styles, different priorities, and so on and so forth. And my suspicion is that if you did sit down and do all of this, the answer you'd end up with is "it depends". It isn't hard for me to imagine play styles and priorities where the extra stats would be better, even as they aren'tmy preference. And for me, that's indicative of good design. Meaningful choices with legitimate trade-offs and no definitive right answer are at the core of strategy and tactical games. 5 hours ago, SnowFire said: It's a famous AmEnglish vs. BrEnglish split: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun#Metonymic_merging_of_grammatical_number Basically, singular is always acceptable, and plural may be acceptable if you're British. That would do it, since I am British. And it probably doesn't help that I'm mostly (I think) discussing battalions with people speaking American English, so I'm trying to reconcile the more natural British English usage with what I'm actually encountering in actual conversation. 1 hour ago, haarhaarhaar said: In the Japanese, Magic Users is 魔道士隊 and Magic Corps (the battalion type one tier below) is 魔法隊. 魔法 translates pretty directly to magic and 隊 just means squad, whereas 魔道士 has quite a few possible translations (I've seen mage, wizard, sorcerer and others too). The 魔 indicates magic, 道 points to it being a discipline, and 士 suggests professionalisation. But I don't think they could stick magic in front of an English word for a combat-related professional (i.e. Magic Fighter, Warrior) because fighter/warrior etc. already have specific meanings within 3H. Other stand-alone translations (wizard, sorcerer, etc.) risk either evoking something stronger than what the battalion represents, or a specific concept that doesn't exist in 3H to begin with. That's interesting. Thanks for the information! I do still think that they could have done better with this one, but it is always worth taking the time to remember that translation is a difficult artform with a lot of competing factors. I know that my own personal preference in translation -- especially for something like this -- is to not care too much about the direct literal translation and instead getting something that reads well in the target language (and for the target culture). But I know that there are people who think otherwise, as is evident by the people who will scream "censorship!" whenever anything is changed in a video game localisation. I think that part of my problem is that "magic users" sounds to me like it ought to be lower tier than "magic corps". "Users" just sounds like a bunch of people who do a bit of magic sometimes, whereas a "corps" sounds like a professional military group. So, if they wanted to keep those two names, I'd have preferred that they were switched around. But I think I'd maybe have gone with something like "Empire Veteran Mages". Although that might give the impression that they are a higher tier than they actually are. Empire Elite Wyvern Co. and Alliance Master Archers are both B rank, after all, but I don't think that "veteran" reads as being as strong as "elite" or "master". I'll also note that "sorcery" is a term used in multiple battalions: the School of Sorcery Soldiers, Vestra Sorcery Engineers, and Ordelia Sorcery Co. So I don't think that there would have been a problem with using "sorcerers" in the name here. But yes. Translation is hard, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 3 hours ago, lenticular said: The different relative weights that people are giving to gambits and stats are really interesting to me, and I can definitely see both sides of the argument. For me, I definitely tend to favour strong gambits, because I value the concentration of power that they offer. I think this analysis is excellent and I basically agree with all of it. 8 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said: If you played without enemy phase units, I can see why you'd rate this battalion higher for paralogue maps. But even then, the Black Eagles are not going to be fighting many paralogues if you're not going to recruit out of house like a lot of people here. I do recruit out of house myself, but... notably, if you don't, then Empire Magic Users is just straight-up going to be a good battalion for stats, being the only source of +5 magic prior to Chapter 12 without the DLC. Like even on a no-gambit run (I've done one, though not on BE), I'm certain I would use Empire Magic Users more than Empire Snipers, which feels like it has a much smaller niche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted October 19, 2022 Author Share Posted October 19, 2022 12 hours ago, SnowFire said: It's a famous AmEnglish vs. BrEnglish split: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun#Metonymic_merging_of_grammatical_number Basically, singular is always acceptable, and plural may be acceptable if you're British. Worth pointing out that, even in that example, it says that American English can use the plural form. Their example was an NFL team, but I think it could apply here too - especially to battalions that have an evidently plural name (i.e. "Empire Snipers") as opposed to a singular one (i.e. "Essar Research Group"). 6 hours ago, lenticular said: The different relative weights that people are giving to gambits and stats are really interesting to me, and I can definitely see both sides of the argument. For me, I definitely tend to favour strong gambits, because I value the concentration of power that they offer. I chose to weight the stronger of the two in each instance, because I think a battalion with a great gambit and poor stats (i.e. Seiros Holy Monks), or a weak gambit but excellent stats (i.e. the Nuvelle battalions), is much better than a battalion that's average in both regards (i.e. Empire Cavalry). When I field a unit with Seiros Holy Monks, I don't really care about the stat boosts - I just want Stride. And when I put Nuvelle Attendants on someone, the boost to Magical Attack (and various other stats) matters far more to me than its support gambit. A battalion that's moderate in both aspects doesn't give me much reason to field it. 10 hours ago, SnowFire said: Yeah, fair that Hubert specifically does want to use a damage gambit due to his passive and we know we're on Eagles for these battalions. Still, there's Dorothea / Linhardt / SS Flayn / Recruited mages like Constance / Hapi / Hanneman to consider, most of whom would be happy to take the extra magic might. Dorothea is interesting since it's a "waste" of her good charm, but her magic growth is a little worse than some of the more hardcore mages, so she may appreciate the extra might anyway. While Dorothea has good Charm, she's also your only user (pre-Manuela) of Rally Charm. Which she can use to enable someone else to get off a highly powerful and accurate offensive gambit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) Welcome back, one and all! It's time to begin another round. But first - the results. Spoiler Empire Cavalry received 6 grades, averaging out to 3.217. Empire Armored Co. received 6 grades, averaging out to 7.167. Empire Pegasus Co. received 6 grades, averaging out to 6.917. Empire Snipers received 6 grades, averaging out to 5.3. Empire Magic Users received 6 grades, averaging out to 7.233. Empire Pavise Co. received 6 grades, averaging out to 3.95. Empire Wyvern Co. received 6 grades, averaging out to 5.85. The resident Impregnable Wall battalion got a high score, as did the Mages and the Pegasi. On the flip side, the Cavalry and Pavise Co. off the Empire leave something to be desired. Chapter 9: Forces from Faerghus Today, we'll be discussing an analogous bunch of battalions to the last round. But this time, rather than the Empire, they hail from the Kingdom. They can be hired from the Battalion Guild, starting in chapter 8. Here they are: Kingdom Archers Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold Gambit: Retribution Endurance: 30 Phys: +2 / +4 Mag: -2 Hit: +5 / +10 Crit: 0 Avo: 0 Prt: +1 / +3 Rsl: 0 Cha: +3 Kingdom Cavalry Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Cavalry Availability: From chapter 8 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold Gambit: Stride Endurance: 45 Phys: +2 / +4 Mag: -2 Hit: 0 / +5 Crit: 0 Avo: 0 Prt: +2 / +4 Rsl: 0 Cha: +3 Kingdom Armored Co. Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Armor Availability: From chapter 8 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold Gambit: Impregnable Wall Endurance: 60 Phys: +1 / +3 Mag: -2 Hit: 0 / +5 Crit: 0 Avo: -10 Prt: +3 / +5 Rsl: 0 Cha: +3 Kingdom Pegasus Co. Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Flight Availability: From chapter 8 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Assembly Endurance: 60 Phys: +2 / +4 Mag: 0 Hit: 0 / +5 Crit: 0 Avo: 0 / +5 Prt: +1 / +3 Rsl: +2 / +4 Cha: +6 Kingdom Snipers Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Fusillade Endurance: 60 Phys: +1 / +3 Mag: -2 Hit: +5 / +15 Crit: 0 Avo: 0 Prt: +1 / +3 Rsl: +1 Cha: +5 Kingdom Magic Users Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Resonant Ice Endurance: Phys: -2 Mag: +3 / +5 Hit: 0 Crit: 0 Avo: 0 / +5 Prt: +1 Rsl: +1 / +3 Cha: +5 Kingdom Brave Lance Co. Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Onslaught Endurance: 60 Phys: +2 / +4 Mag: -2 Hit: +10 / +20 Crit: 0 Avo: +5 / +10 Prt: +1 / +3 Rsl: 0 Cha: +5 Kingdom Wyvern Co. Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Flying Availability: From chapter 8 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Recovery Roar Endurance: 60 Phys: +3 / +5 Mag: -2 Hit: +10 / +15 Crit: 0 / +5 Avo: 0 Prt: +2 / +4 Rsl: 0 Cha: +5 So, what do I think about these battalions? Read below: Spoiler Availability: All of these can be bought starting in chapter 8. That merits 3 out of 5. Accessibility: The Pegasus Co., as D-rank Fliers, get a 5. The Archers, Cavalry, and Armored Co. are all D-rank grounded, which merits a 4. The same applies to the Wyvern Co., as C-rank Fliers. Finally, the Snipers, Magic Users, and Brave Lance Co. are all C-rank Infantry, which earns them 3. Gambit: Kingdom Archers grant the rare Retribution gambit, which makes a huge difference for how you can play your enemy phase. This earns them a 10 in my book. Kingdom Cavalry grant the Stride gambit. It's not your first source of it, but it's arguably a better one. As another premier support gambit, I'll grant them 9 here. The hits start coming, and they don't stop coming. Kingdom Armored Co. provide Impregnable Wall, and like their Imperial counterparts, they get an 8. Kingdom Pegasus Co. provides Assembly, essentially a variant of Disturbance. I'm not very keen on this one, so they walk away with a 2. Kingdom Snipers provide Fusillade, one of the few gambits that can target foes up to 3 tiles away. And with a second use, they earn a solid 7. Kingdom Magic Users grant Resonant Ice, the chilling counterpart to the Empire's fiery gambit. It's not as accurate, but its wide spread and high damage awards it a 7. Kingdom Brave Lance Co. bring another tiny-AoE gambit - this time, it's Onslaught. I think this is worthy of just 3 points. Finally, Kingdom Wyvern Co. are the exclusive providers of the Recovery Roar gambit. It has up to 5 uses, and the same range as Stride... but the effect is almost never useful. I award them a mere 2 points. Stats: Kingdom Archers award up to +4 physical attack, +10 Hit, and +3 Protection... but at a cost of -2 magical damage. That's pretty lateral to the (much earlier) Empire Archers, so I think they deserve a 5 here. Kingdom Cavalry offer a similar statline, with 5 less Hit and 1 more Prt. That too feels lateral, so they get a 5 as well. Kingdom Armored Co. offer the exact same stat boosts as the Empire Armored Co. And the same gambit. Why do these have to be different battalions. 4 points. Kingdom Pegasus Co. have a decent statline, with +4 attack, +5 Hit, +5 Avoid, +3 Prt, +4 Rsl, and +6 Charm. That's as good as, or better than, the Kingdom Cavalry in most senses, so they get 6 points. Kingdom Snipers grant +3 Attack, +15 Hit, +3 Prt, and +1 Rsl, but at -2 Magic. This really feels "middle of the road" to me, so they get a 5. Kingdom Magic Users, the resident magical battalion, offer +5 Magic, +5 Avoid, +1 Prt, and +3 Rsl, with a loss of -2 physical Attack. Very close to the Empire version, so another 5. Kingdom Brave Lance Co. offer as much as +4 Attack, +20 (!) Hit, +10 Avoid, and +3 Prt, with -2 Magic showing up. This is surprisingly solid, especially for any physical unit having hit rate issues. That's worth a 6. Relative to the Pegasi, the Wyvern Co. have 1 more phsyical Attack and Prt, 10 Hit, and 5 Crit... but losing 2 Magical attack, 5 Avoid, 4 Rsl, and 1 Charm. I'll give 'em a 6, too. Uniqueness: Kingdom Wyvern Co. offer a wholly unique gambit, while Kingdom Armored Co. have one that's unique within its own route. They each earn a 3. Kingdom Archers and Kingdom Magic Users are the first users of their respective gambits if you choose the Blue Lions. So, they each earn a 2. Kingdom Cavalry, Kingdom Pegasus Co., and Kingdom Brave Lance Co. aren't exactly unique, but they each offer something special. The first has a rare and strong gambit; the second is one of few D-rank flying battalions; and the third grants a formidable Hit boost. So they all get a 1 here. Sorry, Kingdom Snipers. You close this set out with a 0. Convenience: Just go to the Battalion Guild and hire them. 2 points each. Endurance: Kingdom Archers have a mere 30 durability, so they won't last long. 0 points. All the rest have 45 or 60 durability, so they're on slightly more solid footing. 1 point each. Experience: I don't always use Retribution, but when I do, I prefer Kingdom Archers. Stay enemy-phasing, my friends. 1 point. Kingdom Cavalry sound great on paper, but honestly I can't recall ever using them. By the time they join, I have a dedicated Stridebot, and they're usually a magical unit. And once I beat Sylvain's paralogue, I have a source of Stride with higher stats. 0 points. Kingdom Armored Co. are essential for Impregnable Wall strategies in Azure Moon. I'll be bringing them almost every time, to the very end. 2 points. Kingdom Pegasus Co. are a solid enough battalion for your Pegasus Knight, or a Wyvern Rider with weirdly low Authority. But later flying battalions surpass it. 1 point. Kingdom Snipers at least get some use for the great Fusillade gambit, with more Charm than Seiros Archers. 1 point. Kingdom Magic Users are a great pre-skip choice for Annette or Mercedes. Or perhaps the off-meta magical Sylvain or Ingrid. It's not lategame-viable, but I give 'em 1 point. Kingdom Brave Lance Co., I don't know if I've ever used them. Which is a shame, because I've never gotten to see their high Hit boost. 0 points. Kingdom Wyvern Co. get usage by merit of being a flying battalion. Also I need to use Recovery Roar at least once, to come face-to-face with futility. 1 point. Final Scores: Kingdom Archers: 3 + 4 + 10 * 2 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 1 = 37 -> 7.4 Kingdom Cavalry: 3 + 4 + 9 * 2 + 5 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 34 -> 6.8 Kingdom Armored Co.: 3 + 4 + 8 * 2 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 35 -> 7.0 Kingdom Pegasus Co.: 3 + 5 + 2 + 6 * 2 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 27 -> 5.4 Kingdom Snipers: 3 + 3 + 7 * 2 + 5 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 29 -> 5.8 Kingdom Magic Users: 3 + 3 + 7 * 2 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 30 -> 6.0 Kingdom Brave Lance Co.: 3 + 3 + 3 + 6 * 2 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 25 -> 5.0 Kingdom Wyvern Co.: 3 + 4 + 2 + 6 * 2 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 28 -> 5.6 In any case, I can't wait to read your own thoughts on these Forces from Faerghus! Edited October 21, 2022 by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Forgot to add final scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) Kingdom Archers: 4 stats, 8 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 8. First source of Retribution, which is cool. Stats are less cool, and this will be outclassed eventually, but A rank is quite a reach (even if you'll probably get it before siege tomes becoming common, which is around Dimitri's paralogue / chapter 20?), so still worth a decent amount. This is also probably the best route for Retribution even before it starts to really shine, due to Dimitri's enemy phase build. In a vacuum: 7. Adjusted: 7/10. Kingdom Cavalry: 4 stats, 9 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 8. Okay this is interesting, at least to me. Kingdom Cavalry has Stride. As far as I'm concerned, Stride is clearly the best of the three utility battalions gained by the Lions in this chapter. Not that Retribution and Wall aren't nice effects, but they're no Stride, at least IMO. Which would seem to make this battalion the best of the three, since their stats are all roughly equivalent(ly mediocre). Buuut there are more sources of Stride, so this is the least unique. EDIT: On reflection, the fact that Gautier does more or less obsolete this quite quickly (more quickly than Indech does to Kingdom Archers), does weigh a bit more heavily on my mind, so a half-point adjustment down is in order. In a vacuum: 7.5. Adjusted: 7/10. Kingdom Armored Co.: 4 stats, 8 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 8. The wall gambit. See the Empire. Unlike Retribution/Stride, there is no better source of this, ever, so it gets a positive adjustment for that. In a vacuum: 7. Adjusted: 7.5/10. Kingdom Pegasus Co.: 6 stats, 3 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 8. See the Empire version. Solid stats (-10 hit and +5 avo compared to the Empire version, a losing trade but not enough to change its score for me), meh gambit, but y'know, flying battalion, and these are at a premium for the Lions. In a vacuum: 5. Adjusted: 7.5/10. Kingdom Snipers: 5 stats, 7 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 8. Fusillade with better stats than Seiros Archers. That's competent and better than the average C rank battalion in my books. In a vacuum: 6.5. Adjusted: 6.5/10. Kingdom Magic Users: 5 stats, 8 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 8. Resonant Ice isn't as good as Resonant Flames, but I suppose it's worth mentioning that this is the route with School of Sorcery threatening to come along, but it's still good for the same reasons Empire Magic Users is: great gambit and +5 magic is unique at this point, at least until you start doing certain paralogues. In a vacuum: 7. Adjusted: 7.5/10 Kingdom Brave Lance Co.: 6 stats, 3 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 8. I never use this. The stats are not bad (great hit, okay otherwise), but you can do better than Onslaught and "not bad" stats by C rank if you're looking for grounded physical options. The obvious loser battalion in this otherwise solid group. In a vacuum: 5. Adjusted: 3/10. Kingdom Wyvern Co.: 7 stats, 1 gambit. C rank flying, Chapter 8. At least it has better stats than its pegasus equivalent, unlike the Empire version. In fact, the best stats yet outside of the Nuvelle battalions: atk/hit/prot/charm are all as good as you're getting at this tier, outside Nuvelle and the lords. That gambit, though. Oof. OOF. Really it's notably worse than Reversal, I should adjust the latter's score. In most fights it's like having no gambit at all, and that's awful. But. Lions. Flying battalion. I usually use this, as much as it annoys me. It's solid. In a vacuum: 4.5. Adjusted: 6.5/10 Edited October 22, 2022 by Dark Holy Elf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowFire Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Kingdom Archers: 6/10. Hard to rate. If you want Retribution, it obviously has a place. On the other hand, if you're not planning on building an enemy phase unit, Retribution is a bit more niche in its use (it can be nice vs. the monsters in C9, for example, but that map is pretty easy anyway). In fairness, AM is the route with the most enemy siege tomes, although by the time you hit them you probably can have A-rank on at least *somebody* for Indech Sword Fighters instead. In general, I'm a bit skeptical of enemy phase strats in Maddening, so only giving it a 6/10, but really it's more like 4/10 if you can't abuse Retribution and 8/10 if you can. Kingdom Cavalry: 7/10. It's another Stride battalion... except on the route where it's almost surely competing with Gautier Knights (unless you skipped Sylvain's Paralogue for some reason, maybe he died on Classic). And you're going to do that Paralogue probably in the C8-C10 territory anyway. And it's not that hard to have somebody at B-rank Authority even pre-skip. And while Stride is good, the second copy of Stride is a lot less good. Basically, it's solid, but I personally probably wouldn't build it due to competition that is slightly better than it, so it's in a weird spot. Kingdom Armored Co.: 8/10. See Empire Armored Co., Impregnable Wall is consistently great no matter what strategy you're using, less situational than Retribution. Kingdom Pegasus Co.: 7/10. See Empire Pegasus Co. Kingdom Snipers: 4/10. Acceptable filler, largely thanks to Fusillade, but +3 Attack is questionable by C8. Will get outclassed by Paralogue Battalions quite quickly if you do use 'em for a few chapters. Kingdom Magic Users: 6/10. I gave Empire Magic Users a 7, but a less accurate gambit + being on a less mage-heavy team give KMU a minor penalty. This is especially true if you decide to sacrifice Annette's damage potential and build her more as a support with Blue Lion Dancers post-skip, or to use Mercedes as a pure healing battery. Kingdom Brave Lance Co.: 5/10. Acceptable filler. +4 Phys Attack isn't that different from Brawler units from C3 but Hit +20 is pretty nice. Kingdom Wyvern Co.: 6/10. Trashy gambit, usable anyway due to solid stat boosts + flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Kingdom Archers: 7/10. Yeah, this one is all about Retribution. I seem to recall that I was very high on Retribution when we did the Gambits thread, and while I'm less high on it now than I was then, it's still a very good gambit. This battalion definitely lets you do things that you wouldn't have been able to do without it. And while it is true that you will eventually get people to A rank Authority, it isn't necessarily true that you'll get A-rank on the characters you want to be running support gambits with. Kingdom Cavalry: 5/10. Possibly the best battalion that I never use. Stride is great, of course. But you typically only want one copy of Stride, and this probably isn't it. If I'm running Stride on a healer (which is my preference) or a mage, then Seiros Holy Monks are a better fit. And if I'm running it on a physical attacker then I'm going to want the Gautier Knights instead, which are inherently available to the Blue Lions. Might see a few chapters of use if I'm running Stride on a physical attacker (which I'm probably not) and they aren't up to B Authority yet, but is never going to last for long. Kingdom Armored Co: 6.5/10. Possibly marginally weaker than the Empire version, since the Lions have better enemy phase options without it (Dedue, Dimitri, and Ingrid all have obvious enemy phase builds). That's not enough for me to score it lower, though. Kingdom Pegasus Co: 7/10. When you first get it, it's a marginal upgrade over the Seiros Pegasus Co. but a sufficiently small one that I mightn't bother levelling this up if I was only running one of them. Long term, this is maybe the third best flying battalion that the Lions get, but the other two both have much higher Authority requirement (Galatea Pegasus at B and Cichol Wyverns at A). How useful this winds up being depends on how many fliers you're running and how quickly you get them to higher Authority. If "not many" and "quickly" then this isn't going to see much use; otherwise, it probably is. Kingdom Snipers: 6/10. One of the best choices for a grounded, physically attacking unit at C Authority. By the time you get to Chapter 8, you're likely looking at moving on to B Authority and paralogue battalions, but it'll typically be a while before I get everyone up to B authority, and this remains a good choice for any stragglers. Kingdom Magic Users: 7/10. A worse gambit than the Empire equivalent, on a route with few natural mages, and against more competition in the long run. Still decent, though. Kingdom Brave Lance Co: 4/10. The Hit here is very nice, but we're up to the point of the game where there are other ways to get Hit (supports and Hit +20) and this is otherwise underwhelming. Compared to other C-authority battalions, the attack boost isn't as good as Kingdom Knights (which we probably have levelled up already too), and the gambit is far worse than Kingdom Snipers. Might see use on a unit that is struggling with hit, but not otherwise. Kingdom Wyvern Co: 5/10. If the Kingdom Cavalry are the best battalion that I don't use, this might be the worst battalion that I do use. The gambit is awful; it's the one that we collectively rated as the worst one in the game when we did the gambits thread. And the stats are adequate, but not enough to compensate for that trashy gambit. But it flies. Which means that sometimes the choice is going to be between this and nothing, and this is unambiguously a whole lot better than nothing, which means that it does see use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haarhaarhaar Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) Kingdom Archers - 6/10 I don’t use Retribution, almost ever. But this is BL, which is far and away the route where this gambit is most useful (even just because of EP Dimitri, let alone the late-game). So I will grudgingly give a battalion I wouldn’t normally use a 6/10. Kingdom Cavalry - 6/10 Decent physical stats for a Stride battalion, which means I equipped this instead of Holy Monks for Part 1 paralogues. But it’s not your best Stride battalion for long, so won’t get more than a 6 (and I feel I’m being generous). Kingdom Armored Co. - 6/10 As per Empire. It’s a toss-up which route Impregnable Wall is best on (my gut says SS > AM > CF > VW) but I don’t think there’s enough in it to sway my gradings. Kingdom Pegasus Co. - 6/10 As per Empire. I don’t think the stat spread difference between this and the Empire version makes a huge difference, but I would say I think the Prt is more appreciated here (Ingrid and maybe Sylvain are the prime candidates, who are more likely to take damage at this stage than the smash and run tactics of Edelgard/Petra). Not enough for a scoring difference though Kingdom Snipers - 5.5/10 Is Fusillade worth two points of difference compared to the Empire version? I think yes, but that’s the only difference-maker here. Kingdom Magic Users - 7.5/10 Resonant Ice is worse than Resonant Flames and that matters. But this is still a great gambit, and I am still fielding it on someone. AM is also slightly more enemy mage-heavy than other routes I feel, so that and the lower gambit accuracy mean a point deduction. Kingdom Brave Lance Co. - 4.5/10 It isn’t bad, per se. But I think the name oversells a solid, but ultimately middling physical option. Kingdom Wyvern Co. - 5/10 I didn’t know what this gambit did until right now - I don’t think I even noticed it because this battalion is generally better than the other fliers you have at this stage. But I now know about this gambit, and some of my goodwill towards this battalion has since evaporated. Devs, this was a dick move. Edited October 22, 2022 by haarhaarhaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 Good day or good evening to one and all! Yet again, it's time to get another round going. But let's start by reviewing the results from the latest round: Spoiler Kingdom Archers received 5 grades, averaging out to 6.68 Kingdom Cavalry received 5 grades, averaging out to 6.36 Kingdom Armored Co. received 5 grades, averaging out to 7.00 Kingdom Pegasus Co. received 5 grades, averaging out to 6.58 Kingdom Snipers received 5 grades, averaging out to 5.56 Kingdom Magic Users received 5 grades, averaging out to 6.80 Kingdom Brave Lance Co. received 5 grades, averaging out to 4.30 Kingdom Wyvern Co. received 5 grades, averaging out to 5.62 So it looks like "Impregnable Wall: The Battalion" got the most regard, while the icy Kingdom Magic Users got a warm reception. On the flip side, the Kingdom Brave Lance Co. may be courageous, but folks don't think twice about benching them. In any case, let's kick off Round 10: Armies of the Alliance This time, we'll be looking at another set of 8 battalions. Like the last two rounds, these battalions can all be hired at the Battalion Guild, starting in chapter 8. But this time, we're considering battalions from the Alliance, who can only be hired if you choose to lead Claude and the Golden Deer. What are they? Well... Alliance Archers Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (VW only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold Gambit: Poisoned Arrows Endurance: 30 Phys: +1 / +3 Mag: -2 Hit: +10 / +14 Crit: 0 Avo: +5 / +10 Prt: 0 Rsl: 0 Cha: +3 Alliance Cavalry Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Cavalry Availability: From chapter 8 (VW only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold Gambit: Assault Troop Endurance: 45 Phys: +2 / +4 Mag: -2 Hit: 0 Crit: 0 Avo: +5 / +10 Prt: 0 Rsl: 0 Cha: +3 Alliance Armored Co. Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Armor Availability: From chapter 8 (VW only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold Gambit: Disturbance Endurance: 60 Phys: +1 / +3 Mag: -2 Hit: 0 / +5 Crit: 0 Avo: -5 Prt: +2 / +4 Rsl: 0 Cha: +3 Alliance Pegasus Co. Spoiler Accessibility: D-rank Flying Availability: From chapter 8 (VW only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Assembly Endurance: 60 Phys: +2 / +4 Mag: 0 Hit: 0 / +5 Crit: 0 Avo: +5 / +10 Prt: 0 / +2 Rsl: +1 / +3 Cha: +6 Alliance Snipers Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (VW only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Fusillade Endurance: 60 Phys: +1 / +3 Mag: -2 Hit: +10 / +15 Crit: 0 Avo: +5 / +10 Prt: 0 Rsl: 0 Cha: +5 Alliance Magic Users Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (VW only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Resonant Lightning Endurance: 45 Phys: -2 Mag: +2 / +4 Hit: 0 Crit: 0 Avo: +5 / +10 Prt: 0 Rsl: +2 / +4 Cha: +5 Alliance Veteran Duelists Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Infantry Availability: From chapter 8 (VW only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Absorption Endurance: 60 Phys: +2 / +4 Mag: -2 Hit: 0 Crit: 0 Avo: +5 / +10 Prt: +1 / +3 Rsl: 0 Cha: +5 Alliance Wyvern Co. Spoiler Accessibility: C-rank Flying Availability: From chapter 8 (VW only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold Gambit: Impregnable Wall Endurance: 60 Phys: +3 / +5 Mag: -2 Hit: 0 Crit: 0 / +5 Avo: +5 / +10 Prt: +1 / +3 Rsl: 0 Cha: +5 As for my assessments of these particular battalions... well, they're included below. Spoiler Availability: They can all be obtained from the start of chapter 8. This is an easy 3 all-around. Accessibility: The D-rank Flying battalion, Alliance Pegasus Co., gets a 5. The grounded C-rank battalions - Archers, Cavalry, and Armored Co. - all get a 4. As does the C-rank Flying battalion, Alliance Wyvern Co. The C-rank Infantry battalions - Snipers, Magic Users, Veteran Duelists - all get a 3. Gambit: Alliance Archers offer Poisoned Arrows, a more accurate variant of Fusillade. This nets them an excellent 8. Alliance Cavalry give us something we've seen before in Assault Troop. Still, it's powerful and hits a few targets, so it's worth a 5. Alliance Armored Co. give us Disturbance. Accurate, but not much else good to say about it. 3. Alliance Pegasus Co. offer Lure, which might be even worse than Disturbance. They only get a 2. Alliance Snipers offer Fusillade, which is great both for its range, and for doing effective damage. They're worth a solid 7. Alliance Magic Users provide Resonant Lightning - the strongest of the magical gambits, but also the least accurate. It still deserves a 6. Alliance Veteran Duelists have the Absorption gambit. Its area-of-effect can't be beat, but its hit rate leaves a lot to be desired. These get a 3. Alliance Wyvern Co. are the source of Impregnable Wall on this route. An excellent support gambit, it nets this battalion an 8. Stats: Alliance Archers provide +3 Attack, +14 (not 15...) Hit, and +10 Avoid, at a cost of -2 Magic. Pretty comparable to the other Archer battalions (gaining Avoid instead of Protection), so I'll give them a 5. Alliance Cavalry give 1 more Attack, but with no Hit boost - only bolstering Attack and Avoid. Actually pretty close to Alliance Brawlers, so they get a 4. Alliance Armored Co. offer +3 Attack, +5 Hit, and +4 Prt, but with a malus of -2 Magic and -5 Avoid. Very close to the Empire equivalent, so another 4. Alliance Pegasus Co. deliver +4 Attack, +5 Hit, +10 Avoid, +2 Prt, +3 Rsl, and an outsized +6 Charm. So no real "standout" areas, but it keeps up the trend of D-rank Pegasus battalions giving surprisingly big boosts. Worth a 6. Alliance Snipers have +3 Attack, +15 Hit, and +10 Avoid, with just a loss of -2 Magic. That's right - it's just 1 point of Hit (and 2 Charm) over the Archers. Another 5, I guess. Alliance Magic Users grant +4 Magical Attack, +10 Avoid, and +4 Resilience, but lose out with -2 Physical Attack. That's just 1 Magic (and 2 Charm) over Alliance Magic Corps, whom I gave a 3... so, this bunch gets a 4. Alliance Veteran Duelists offer +4 Attack, +10 Avoid, and +3 Protection... at the usual loss of -2 Magic. That's just 1 Rsl behind Alliance Knights, so this group can also claim a 5. Alliance Wyvern Co. offer +5 Attack, +5 Crit, +10 Avoid, and +3 Protection, with the usual -2 Magic applied. That's 1 Attack and 5 Crit over the aforementioned Veteran Duelists, so they fly up to 6. Uniqueness: Alliance Wyvern Co. are your only source of Impregnable Wall, making them a strictly unique battalion. This earns them 3. Alliance Archers are your first source of Poisoned Arrows, while Alliance Magic Users are the first Resonant Lightning battalion you can actually use. Each of them is initially unique, and therefore gets a 2. Alliance Veteran Duelists essentially "tie" with Mockingbird's Thieves as your first source of Absorption. Meanwhile, the Pegasus Co. provide a rare D-rank Flying Battalion, while the Snipers grant an uncommon 2-3 range gambit. They're not unique, but they are niche, and that's worth a 1. Finally, the Cavalry and the Armored Co. Neither of them offers anything you don't already have access to. They're downright ordinary, and earn a 0. Convenience: Just go to the Battalion Guild and hire them. It's not that hard. Is your crippling anxiety preventing you from speaking with the Guildmaster? If so, I'm sorry for touching a nerve. But if not, you can see why they all get 2. Endurance: Why are Archers so frail? I guess it makes sense, as they don't expect to take many hits. Still, 30 durability is very poor, so they get a 0. All the others have 45 (Cavalry, Magic Users) or 60 (the rest). That's deserving of 1 apiece. Experience: Alliance Archers... I think I've used these guys a little bit. Poisoned Arrows is one of the best physical gambits in the game, so they deserve it. I'm not bringing them lategame, but they still merit a 1. I have functionally no memory of using Alliance Cavalry. You already have battalions that do what they do. They get a 0. Alliance Armored Co... I might've used once or twice on a defensive unit. Still, +4 isn't anything special, and hardly makes up for the Avoid loss and lackluster stats otherwise. Another 0. D-rank Flying battalions will always find use on my team. If by "always", I mean "during the pre-skip". The Pegasus Co. gets a 1. The Snipers... wait, are they better or worse than the Archers? They have more Charm, and that all-important fifteenth point of Hit, but also a less accurate battalion. And why raise them up when I've already started on Seiros Archers? These get another 0. Alliance Magic Users... it's a magical battalion, alright. On a "normal" run, I'm training Lorenz, Marianne, and Lysithea in magic, and there aren't many other comparable boosting battalions yet. They'll see use for a little while, so 1. Alliance Veteran Duelists, I've definitely used, because they were my only source of Absorption at the time. The gambit may be a massive joke, but what's life without a laugh once in a while? They get a 1. Alliance Wyvern Co. are the only bunch here that can expect to see use into the lategame, and it's for a comparable reason to other routes - Impregnable Wall. They may have switched which battalion grants the gambit, but it's valuable nonetheless. This squad gets a 2. Final Scores: Alliance Archers: 3 + 4 + 8 * 2 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 1 = 33 -> 6.6 Alliance Cavalry: 3 + 4 + 5 * 2 + 4 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 24 -> 4.8 Alliance Armored Co.: 3 + 4 + 3 + 4 * 2 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 21 -> 4.2 Alliance Pegasus Co.: 3 + 5 + 2 + 6 * 2 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 27 -> 5.4 Alliance Snipers: 3 + 3 + 7 * 2 + 5 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 29 -> 5.8 Alliance Magic Users: 3 + 3 + 6 * 2 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 28 -> 5.6 Alliance Veteran Duelists: 3 + 3 + 2 + 5 * 2 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 23 -> 4.6 Alliance Wyvern Co.: 3 + 4 + 8 * 2 + 6 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 37 -> 7.4 Well, those are my thoughts... but how about yours? I'd love to hear what you think of these Armies from the Alliance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haarhaarhaar Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Alliance Archers - 5.5/10 Really great gambit, stats are good for D-rank - but it won't take too long for units to outgrow D-rank, so not higher than 5.5 for me. Alliance Cavalry - 2.5/10 Worse than the Empire equivalent! Nobody wants this, but +4 Atk mean it's technically usable. Alliance Armored Co. - 1.5/10 Less Prt than its peers and no Impregnable Wall? No thanks. Alliance Pegasus Co. - 6/10 As per its peers. Stat spread isn't different enough to warrant a score variation. Alliance Snipers - 5/10 The 0.5 score drop compared to the Kingdom version reflects that Alliance Archers is probably better, and more accessible. Alliance Magic Users - 7.25/10 Worst version of the Resonant gambit, but lots of options for high-Cha mages in house, so only a 0.25 score deduction on the Kingdom version. Alliance Veteran Duelists - 4/10 Meh stats for C-Rank. Absorption makes no sense (especially given this particular battalion? Why not a dark mage battalion so it chimes aesthetically with Lifeseeker?) but I admit a soft spot for using this - no combat benefit I can see, purely personal bias. Still won't get higher than a 4. Alliance Wyvern Co. - 7/10 Putting Impregnable Wall on a flier is a whole point better than on a grounded unit, because flying. In truth, the score increase should be even higher - but I find myself resenting that a strong flying battalion has a gambit that I personally rarely use, so it won't get higher than 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowFire Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Alliance Archers: 4/10. Similar to Kingdom Snipers. Gambit is okay but +3 Attack in C8 really isn't enough. Alliance Cavalry: 3/10. Yeah, it's not totally horrible thanks to +4 Atk, but it's pretty uninspiring otherwise. Alliance Armored Co.: 4/10. Probably a tad better than Empire Pavise Co (which I gave a 3/10)? I'll trade the Prot for an extra point of attack, and I can see an Armor Knight Raphael / Hilda / Balthus potentially being interested in this for the Deer. (Where it still won't last vs. Paralogue battalion competition, but it won't be horrible.) Alliance Pegasus Co.: 6/10. We've seen this before, but I'm docking it a point vs. the other Pegasi battalions (which got a 7 from me) due to competition from the obviously superior Alliance Wyvern Co., as well as Immortal Corps being a fantastic flying battalion later meaning the Deer have less of a pinch on flying battalions than say the Lions, and thus somewhat less interest in running a D-rank battalion mid-to-late game. Alliance Snipers: 4/10. A little better than Kingdom Snipers from a larger Hit bonus (especially relevant for archers firing at long range), but faces tougher competition with the Alliance Archers also existing, so same score works. I really want a bit larger of an Attack bonus than +3 when stuff like Nuvelle Chamberlains is one chapter off, I might be willing to sac a little attack power for a good gambit, but not 5 Attack power. Alliance Magic Users: 5/10. -1 Magic Attack AND a worse Gambit than the other X Magic Users? Ew. Will probably see some use anyway (Gloucester Knights the only Paralogue battalion in the base Deer that's pre-timeskip that also increases Magic Attack, and it's a hybrid rather than a pure mage battalion) but even if pinched for mage battalions, retire them for Nuvelle Attendants or Alliance Sages ASAP. Alliance Veteran Duelists: 2/10. See Alliance Cavalry but arguably with an even tougher gambit to set up and a higher authority threshold. Just not much point to building 'em unless you think Absorption is cool (which it admittedly is!). Alliance Wyvern Co.: 9.5/10. One of the best battalions in the game. If Impregnable Wall gets an 8/10 when on ground battalions packing meh stats, good stats + flying access is surely worth a score boost for me. Plus, IW works especially well on units with Canto, and flyers are even better to allow cool positioning gimmicks to easily get the flyer to safety and/or just have a tanky/evasive enough flyer to survive on its own while IW'ing the squishy mages the turn before the reinforcements arrive and the like. If there was some kind of "battalion draft" where players were reserving battalions for use, I'm not saying I'd draft Wyvern Co. as the literal first pick overall, but it should probably be drafted in the top 5 of a Maddening draft, IMO. Top 10 at worst. It allows disrespectful plays that no other battalion sets up as well if you stick 'em on a good flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Alliance Archers: 6.5/10 and Alliance Snipers 6/10. These are eerily similar. The stats are basically identical, with the main difference being 2 extra points of Charm on the Snipers. Which sounds like it might be significant, except that what that mostly does is cancel out the 10% accuracy bonus that Poisoned Arrows has over Fusilade. Beyond that, the Snipers have twice as much endurance, but the Archers require one lower rank of authority. If I'm only getting one of them, then it'll probably be the Archers, but there's a good chance I'll end up grabbing both of them. Alliance Cavalry: 2/10. Comparable to but worse than the Empire Cavalry (which I also gave a 2), and also worse than other D-authority battalions that become available at the same time. It's hard to think of the circumstances where I'd be seriously using this. Alliance Armored Co: 2/10. Very similar to the Seiros Armored Co. which I gave a 1.5 to. I think I like this one a little bit better for the more reliable gambit, but only a little better. Alliance Pegasus Co: 6.5/10. I agree with SnowFire that the Alliance just doesn't have the crunch for flying battalions of the other houses. Alliance Magic Users: 5.5/10. I like my gambits accurate and reliable, and Resonant Lightning just doesn't deliver. Esepcially since this is the Golden Deer and Lorenz and Lysithea are two of the least charming mages in the game. It works better on Marianne, but there are reasons I might not want to give it to her. I've stated before that my preference is to give Stride to someone with Physic (since they can be useful and effective if they are lagging behind the rest of the army) and Marianne is the only real Physic user among the native Deer students. She's also a good candidate for Dark Flier, which would stop her from using this. Long story short: I don't like Resonant Lightning. And it comes on a battalion with less attack than the comparable battalions from the other houses. I'll probably use this, but I'm not going to be enthusiastic about it. Alliance Veteran Duelists: 1/10. What if we took the already bad Alliance Cavalry, gave it a worse gambit, and increased the authority requirement? I still don't know what the devs were thinking when they decided to make a gambit that you can only use to its full potential if you're willing to stand in the middle of a group of enemies while severely injured and then give it 30% accuracy. Alliance Wyvern Co: 8/10. Hard for me to rate, since I don't really use Impregnable Wall even though I acknowledge that it is objectively good. But I gave the grounded versions from other houses a 6.5, this is clearly better than them. Partly because flight is automatically enough to secure even the trashiest battalions at least a 5/10, and partly because this seems like a gambit that would really benefit from being on a character with flying mobility. I'm not confident of my score on this, and will probably think completely differently tomorrow, but this is what I've got for now. (Not that I'm really all that confident of any of my scores, but this one even less than the rest.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Alliance Archers: 4 stats, 8 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 8. Poisoned Arrows is the best gambit I hardly ever use (okay, except Dance of the Goddess). This is because it's basically always attached to bad stats for the time. 14 hit is nice, 3 atk isn't. Still, I probably should use this more than I do; it's a clear upgrade on Seiros Archers, and thus one of the absolute best D rank battalions for anyone still stuck there. In a vacuum: 6.5. Adjusted: 6/10 Alliance Cavalry: 4 stats, 6 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 8. See Empire Cavalry. It's... okay but realistically there's no niche, if you're picking up a new grounded D rank battalion at this checkpoint it's not this one (hint: it's the one above). In a vacuum: 5.5. Adjusted: 3/10. Alliance Armored Co: 4 stats, 4 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 8. Yeah it's bad. In its... slight defence, the Alliance has a shortage of Prot battalions, so this having 4 ties it for the best at this point. Don't really think that's worth it, though. In a vacuum: 4. Adjusted: 2.5/10. Alliance Pegasus Co: 6 stats, 3 gambit. D rank flying, Chapter 8. Another Chapter 8 pegasus battalion, good for the same reasons. I agree that it's slightly worse than the others because it faces the most competition - the best C rank wyverns, and then Immortal Corps. But it's still the route's best D rank fliers. In a vacuum: 5. Adjusted: 7/10. Alliance Snipers: 5 stats, 7 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 8. This is basically an Alliance Archers which requires C rank. The +2 charm and the gambit hit rate mostly offset. So realistically I'd probably buy the former, somebody's probably stuck at D rank still. But they're very close, and if everyone's at C already, the 30 extra endurance does count for something. Same score works. In a vacuum: 6.5. Adjusted: 6/10. Alliance Magic Users: 4 stats, 7 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 8. Yeah this is clearly worse than the other Magic Users battalions. Realistically I'm probably still using it, but it'll get shuffled out faster. In a vacuum: 6. Adjusted: 6.5/10 Alliance Veteran Duelists: 5 stats, 3 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 8. Another random C rank physical battalion with no standout traits to get it used. Use the archers/snipers instead, Absorption is not good with its 30 hit rate. In a vacuum: 4.5. Adjusted: 2.5/10 Alliance Wyvern Co: 6 stats, 8 gambit. C rank flying, Chapter 8. I don't agree that Impregnable Wall should be brought to every fight, for the Eagles or Lions. But the Deer? The Deer should probably always equip this. Wall is just straight-up a better battalion when its user has flight due to the positioning flexibility which is key to its effective use. It can be used on distant targets in paralogues (Manuela in particular), and to top it off the desirability of the battalion is higher too because it's a 5-atk flying battalion. Top five battalion for the route, as Snowfire says? Maybe. I don't think comparison to Seiros Holy Monks is unfair: it's not as dominant at any point as SHM is early, but it's pretty darn dominant and is never outclassed. In a vacuum: 7.5. Adjusted: 9/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 Ahoy, one and all! First up, let's take a look at the scores that the battalions o' the Alliance received: Spoiler Alliance Archers received 5 grades, averaging out to 5.72 Alliance Cavalry received 5 grades, averaging out to 3.06 Alliance Armored Co. received 5 grades, averaging out to 2.84 Alliance Pegasus Co. received 5 grades, averaging out to 6.18 Alliance Snipers received 5 grades, averaging out to 5.36 Alliance Magic Users received 5 grades, averaging out to 5.97 Alliance Veteran Duelists received 5 grades, averaging out to 2.82 Alliance Wyvern Co. received 5 grades, averaging out to 8.18 The Wyvern battalion, much like the Wyvern classes, has been recognized as one of the best in the game. On the other hand, the Alliance Cavalry, Armored Co, and Veteran Duelists are nothing to write home to Deirdriu about. Round 10.5: Hello, Hiatus! Normally, this is where I'd introduce the next round. As it sits, however, I'm not able to kick off a new round at this point. And I won't for a little while. Big pirate convention coming up, see? I'm shippin' off in short order, and won't return to these seas until... oh, let's say, Thursday, November 10th. At that point, we'll keep going with Round 11 - and if calm waters are ahead, we'll spot the destination on the horizon before year's end. Until then, feel free to leave grades on any battalions we've already covered, that you may have missed. Or maybe go back to the game, if it's been a while since you've experienced any of them. In any case, thanks for reading. Until we meet again, may the winds of fortune fill your sails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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