Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?

[SnowFire]

35 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Is this real, or a joke I'm not getting?

I was just being silly, although I am referring to a real thing in-game.  In Explaining The (Not Very Good) Joke: 

Spoiler

As SP1M said in the Church battalion introduction, the Eagles don't have any pre-skip battalions (missed my chance to stick the joke in the last round, oh well).  Dorothea has a pre-skip paralogue but Opera Co. Volunteers are gained much later; instead, if you've recruited her, you get a Goddess Ring for your troubles.  So I was just "ranking" how useful that Goddess Ring was, which does indeed allow you to equip a battalion in addition to it but uses up the accessory slot, since it's an accessory.  And a ring is in the shape of a circle, right?  But a "circle" can also refer to a group, especially like a druidic circle of mages or some such?  Just a pun.

 

[haarhaarhaar]

23 minutes ago, SnowFire said:

I was just being silly, although I am referring to a real thing in-game.  In Explaining The (Not Very Good) Joke: 

Blame my sleep-deprived head for not getting a pretty clever riff, and instead just going "Wow, well I learnt something new today".

 

[DaveCozy]

On 11/19/2022 at 8:48 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Thanks for joining now! Even if you're late to the party, you are welcome to rate the earlier ones. I will add them to a running document of scores, and re-calculate all the averages at the very end. I know there are a lot of older ones, so if you just want to grade some and not others,

Aw thanks! I won't make things complicated then and just stick to that past one.

I think that Kingdom Archers is an 8/10. Its stat bonuses are weak and is the only reason it isn't going to be higher for me, but the battalion effect is so strong and it matters due to the fact that a) Dimitri loves it with his battalion ability combo, and b) siege magic is obnoxious in the final AM chapter stretch.

As a bit of a goofy strategy, an Assassin with this battalion is actually pretty helpful; any of the units that got Retribution will counter back while enemies will stay away from the Assassin because of Stealth.

[haarhaarhaar]

2 hours ago, DaveCozy said:

I think that Kingdom Archers is an 8/10. Its stat bonuses are weak and is the only reason it isn't going to be higher for me, but the battalion effect is so strong and it matters due to the fact that a) Dimitri loves it with his battalion ability combo, and b) siege magic is obnoxious in the final AM chapter stretch.

Definitely take the general point. But for late-game, Indech will probably be your Retribution. Before then, EP Dimitri only needs this if you don't have the DLC (specifically the Chalice), because there's very little competition for his accessory slot (maybe a Crit Ring? Not crucial). Just providing some context for why I, at least, didn't rate it higher than 6/10. 

[SnowFire]

6 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Definitely take the general point. But for late-game, Indech will probably be your Retribution. Before then, EP Dimitri only needs this if you don't have the DLC (specifically the Chalice), because there's very little competition for his accessory slot (maybe a Crit Ring? Not crucial). Just providing some context for why I, at least, didn't rate it higher than 6/10. 

This might be a bit arbitrary of me, but I tend to consider the DLC stat boosters & DLC Chalice a little separate from the general DLC additions (i.e. the Wolves themselves, Dark Seals, the Black Market, etc.).  Fetters of Dromi is busted but at least you have to beat a Paralogue for it.  Chalice of Beginnings is very strong and you just...  get it.  Don't get me wrong, I used Chalice one playthrough to see how it went (verdict: Wyvern Rider/Lord with infinite range Axefaire counters and no arrow weakness is strong), but it feels a bit like "easy mode engaged."  I do agree that if you bake in using Chalice to the rankings, the value of Retribution goes down, as now Retribution is only for giving your team the ability (maybe you're fighting a monster with a lot of range 1 units without canto and didn't Gambit it with a range 1-2 wielding unit or stun it?), and one enemy-phase unit gets it for free.

[lenticular]

38 minutes ago, SnowFire said:

This might be a bit arbitrary of me, but I tend to consider the DLC stat boosters & DLC Chalice a little separate from the general DLC additions (i.e. the Wolves themselves, Dark Seals, the Black Market, etc.).  Fetters of Dromi is busted but at least you have to beat a Paralogue for it.  Chalice of Beginnings is very strong and you just...  get it.  Don't get me wrong, I used Chalice one playthrough to see how it went (verdict: Wyvern Rider/Lord with infinite range Axefaire counters and no arrow weakness is strong), but it feels a bit like "easy mode engaged."  I do agree that if you bake in using Chalice to the rankings, the value of Retribution goes down, as now Retribution is only for giving your team the ability (maybe you're fighting a monster with a lot of range 1 units without canto and didn't Gambit it with a range 1-2 wielding unit or stun it?), and one enemy-phase unit gets it for free.

The other benefit of Retribution is that it doesn't take your accessory slot, which may or may not be relevant. Depending on exactly what you're doing and how your stats work out, having an Evasion Ring for your dodge tank or a Critical Ring for your Vantage/Wrath unit can still potentially make a difference. Just using the Chalice is a whole lot easier and doesn't require any set-up, but using Retribution can potentially give you a somewhat stronger unit.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, lenticular said:

The other benefit of Retribution is that it doesn't take your accessory slot, which may or may not be relevant. Depending on exactly what you're doing and how your stats work out, having an Evasion Ring for your dodge tank or a Critical Ring for your Vantage/Wrath unit can still potentially make a difference. Just using the Chalice is a whole lot easier and doesn't require any set-up, but using Retribution can potentially give you a somewhat stronger unit.

Accuracy Ring can come in handy, too. Since you can't crit if you can't hit. In any case, "Retribution effect plus combat stat boost" is obviously better than "Retribution alone". Better to the degree of spending a battalion slot on a Retribution battalion? That's where the debate lies. I usually think it's worth it, since if my approach is "kill every last one of them on enemy phase", I have little need for offensive gambits. But it comes down to playstyle.

2 hours ago, SnowFire said:

This might be a bit arbitrary of me, but I tend to consider the DLC stat boosters & DLC Chalice a little separate from the general DLC additions (i.e. the Wolves themselves, Dark Seals, the Black Market, etc.).  Fetters of Dromi is busted but at least you have to beat a Paralogue for it.  Chalice of Beginnings is very strong and you just...  get it.  Don't get me wrong, I used Chalice one playthrough to see how it went (verdict: Wyvern Rider/Lord with infinite range Axefaire counters and no arrow weakness is strong), but it feels a bit like "easy mode engaged."  I do agree that if you bake in using Chalice to the rankings, the value of Retribution goes down, as now Retribution is only for giving your team the ability (maybe you're fighting a monster with a lot of range 1 units without canto and didn't Gambit it with a range 1-2 wielding unit or stun it?), and one enemy-phase unit gets it for free.

I feel the same way. Using the stuff I get for free just feels... cheap. When I have to beat a paralogue, it feels like I've earned it. But I wonder - where is the line? Is it cheap that I can recruit the Wolves themselves, regardless of my level and ranks? Hard to say, exactly. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I feel the same way. Using the stuff I get for free just feels... cheap. When I have to beat a paralogue, it feels like I've earned it. But I wonder - where is the line? Is it cheap that I can recruit the Wolves themselves, regardless of my level and ranks? Hard to say, exactly. 

Mm, for what it's worth, I don't think so, personally. I don't think more team options are cheap, and that's what the Wolves are... just as I don't consider playing as FByleth cheap just because you get Sylvain. It's not like the Wolves (or Sylvain) are incredibly dominant units; solid ones, but fundamentally balanced with existing choices. If they joined with Advanced classes (like Catherine/Shamir) in Chapter 2, that'd feel a bit cheap because of how stats work, but they don't.

For what it's worth I don't use the Chalice, because it does feel unearned to me, and it isn't just another option the way the Wolves are. (I'd be fine with it if you got it for free midgame, but early on the lack of competition for accessory slots makes it overcentralizing.)

Leicester Dicers: 7 gambit, 3 gambit. B rank grounded, DLC paralogue.

I think this is quite a lot worse than Gloucester, personally. Yes, the stats are only a bit worse (-10 hit, -2 cha, +1 atk). But the gambit is significantly worse, and it's less available in practice. Let's be real here, Lorenz is being recruited in any decently optimized run, and his is an easier paralogue than this one by quite a bit, IMO. I do use it sometimes, but definitely sometimes not, even when I do this paralogue for (spoilers) the much better battalion it provides.

In a vacuum: 5.5. Adjusted: 5/10

Timotheos Magic Corps: 8 stats, 9 gambit. B rank grounded, DLC paralogue.

Resonant Flames with good stats, sign me up. Similar to Macuil Evil Repelling, but it doesn't need A authority. I'm not sure if it's the best battalion in this set, but it's certainly the one I'm happiest with, just good in all ways.

In a vacuum: 8.5. Adjusted: 8.5/10

Mockingbird's Thieves: 7 stats, 2 gambit. B rank grounded, DLC paralogue.

Basically a slightly worse Leicester Dicers, being balanced isn't really positive. The gambit is bad, the stats are... decent but not great, only really good for hybrids and get in line, you're behind 3 others minimum at this point. 

In a vacuum: 5. Adjusted: 4.5/10

Nuvelle Fliers Corps: 7 stats, 7 gambit. B rank flying, DLC paralogue.

Dark Flier is great. This is the best battalion for a Dark Filer. Honestly, I'm tempted to go higher, but the weaknesses of the battalion (mostly related to accuracy, both its own paltry boost and the choice of Resonant Lightning) do weigh on me a bit. But realistically, I'm using this every non-challenge playthrough if I have DLC.

In a vacuum: 7. Adjusted: 8.5/10

Secret Transport Force: 6 stats, 9 gambit. B rank flying, DLC paralogue.

What a strange tool. If you want to go all-in for a flying dodgetank, and are on CF/AM? You want this. Want Stride on a flier? You want this. Otherwise, its stats are just a little short of what you'd like here. Hard to argue with what it does well, though. It's effectively a post-timeskip battalion (I want to be very happy with my team before doing this paralogue Part 1, screw ambush spawn Bow Knights), which hurts it a bit.

In a vacuum: 7.5. Adjusted: 8/10.

[haarhaarhaar]

People's general responses that they don't use the Chalice surprise me. Its conditions for access are technically stricter than the Wolves (clear the entire Side Story, as opposed to up to a certain chapter) - and to me, the Side Story is equivalent to a paralogue chain, that is seven levels long (of the kind you might have seen in Awakening, for example). Put this way (and I guess the fact that you pay money for DLC), the Chalice requires high investment to obtain - and items like the Fetters and the battalions above have some of the steepest investment to obtain in the game. 

Now, the comments above are right that the Chalice arriving early means it is guaranteed to make your run easier if you use it, and is an easier set-up for an individual unit than Retribution - so its arrival in Ch. 2 is strong. But not, I think, game-breakingly so, because nobody can tank more than a couple of units in the early game (and getting chip on them is great, but is only properly relevant before C-rank Bows when anybody can do it). Beyond that point, the rings do often supersede the Chalice, because Counterattack is not a hugely relevant effect - except when you're running (Battalion) Vantage and/or Wrath, because the viability of those builds directly depends on being able to counter. Note that dodgetanks/def-tanks may also like it, but don't need it to function. This remains true up until siege enemies become a thing in the late game. So it isn't generally busted, I think*.

However, as acknowledged, it does encroach on the Retribution niche. Outside of AM, the two sit comfortably side by side for most of the game, because Retribution is locked to A authority. In the late-game of these other routes, whether you run both the Chalice and Retribution depends on your party make-up, and how many units are supposed to engage Bolting mages/dragons. On AM, the Chalice outweighs Retribution in the following scenarios:

a) Pre-Chapter 8 (before Kingdom Cavalry become available)

b) Where your Retribution gambit user cannot (easily) reach your counter-attacker (Sothis' paralogue, Ch. 13 come to mind)

c) Where your counter-attacker wants to fight on their own, for more than five turns (I can't really imagine a scenario where this comes up and you can't find a work-around with Retribution, but it's technically possible I guess)

As people have pointed out above, if you want Counterattack on multiple units, or you'd like to take pressure off their accessory slot because they have better options than the null flying/armoured/riding effect, Retribution is the thing to use - it is also an action providing Authority EXP, which is worth something before A-rank Authority. I think the Chalice specifically diminishes Kingdom Cavalry, because when that battalion is accessible I'm rarely in a position where I'd want Retribution on top of the Chalice, and stats alone don't justify its deployment. However, it does allow units to use Retribution without A-rank, which could be helpful in specific situations (I myself do not use Retribution enough for that, but can understand the benefits theoretically), and this is why it preserved its 6/10. 

*EDIT: A potential other use during the mid-game is against Bow Knights. Which is actually quite helpful, so include that.

Edited November 22, 2022 by haarhaarhaar

[SnowFire]

Elf: Hmm, I guess availability metrics will differ by ranker, but I really don't agree that Lorenz is more available than Balthus.  If you're doing a physical Byleth build (e.g. the popular Falcon/Wyvern Lord line, etc.) it's very reasonable to sac Byleth's magic training entirely, which makes Lorenz at least a little out of the way (whether by pointless Reason training or via lunchtime / gift bribery).  Balthus is just totally free, meanwhile, if you can beat his Paralogue (which I do agree is one of the harder ones).  More generally, even if Lorenz really was more available, I think baking in a variety of "cases" where But What If Situation X Happens is fair.  This was most notable with Kingdom Cavalry earlier, a fine battalion that probably only sees use in very specific situations since you apparently didn't do Sylvain's Paralogue yet or have some catastrophic shortage of B-Authority units that can equip Gautier Knights.  If for some wacky reason you did get Sylvain killed or something though and need to use it, it's not like it's a *bad* battalion, so a low score would be a bit weird.  I think Leicester Dicers is in a similar spot - if you don't have Gloucester or have a lot of hybrids for some reason, it's probably not a full 3-point downgrade on Gloucester.

I'll also note that on the "lot of hybrids" thought that while not as slanted as Elf's all-mage playthrough, my GD Maddening playthrough run an unusual amount of hybrid attackers: Trickster->Mortal Savant Yuri & Manuela, War Monk Balthus, technically Dancer Hilda as well although she rarely attacked.  So every hybrid battalion got to see some use (no Supreme Armored Co. on GD, so Gloucester Knights / Nuvelle Stewards / Mockingbird's Thieves / Leicester Dicers), which raises all of their stock some in the same way that D-rank flying battalions can be useful merely for being *something* if you run a lot of flyers.

--

haarx3: On Chalice, the obvious difference (that yes, I know you already know) is that clearing Cindered Shadows is done on a different file!  That makes Chalice a tad closer to importing New Game+ rewards in my book.  I would agree if it was like Awakening / Fates / Echoes DLC that you had to do on your current file.  (You have to beat Hidden Truths every time you want a Dragon's Blood or the like, even though you're using a different team.)

[haarhaarhaar]

2 hours ago, SnowFire said:

So every hybrid battalion got to see some use (no Supreme Armored Co. on GD, so Gloucester Knights / Nuvelle Stewards / Mockingbird's Thieves / Leicester Dicers), which raises all of their stock some in the same way that D-rank flying battalions can be useful merely for being *something* if you run a lot of flyers.

I ranked Mockingbird 5th for hybrids because I figured I'd normally rather run Edmund Troops (I wasn't counting Supreme Armoured Co. because it's CF-locked, although it would certainly make it into the top 5). Given the builds you mentioned running, I can imagine why you might have chosen Mockingbird's - but what was the exact reason?

3 hours ago, SnowFire said:

On Chalice, the obvious difference (that yes, I know you already know) is that clearing Cindered Shadows is done on a different file!  That makes Chalice a tad closer to importing New Game+ rewards in my book.  I would agree if it was like Awakening / Fates / Echoes DLC that you had to do on your current file.  (You have to beat Hidden Truths every time you want a Dragon's Blood or the like, even though you're using a different team.)

Yeah I can see that. Lots of people here have run the game plenty of times, so if you've already done the DLC it probably feels free after your first subsequent play through. I recently lost all my save files so have been doing a full run of the game for the first time in a while, including the Side Story, and the Chalice definitely felt earnt, even if it arrives in the main game a bit early. 

[SnowFire]

7 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

I ranked Mockingbird 5th for hybrids because I figured I'd normally rather run Edmund Troops (I wasn't counting Supreme Armoured Co. because it's CF-locked, although it would certainly make it into the top 5). Given the builds you mentioned running, I can imagine why you might have chosen Mockingbird's - but what was the exact reason?

Mostly join time.  I'm usually not in a hurry to do Marianne's paralogue the month it appears.  I forget how many chapters I waited, but by the time I did do it, it felt like it was too late to bother training up a new battalion, not enough game left.  Also, some amount of "rule of cool" - Mockingbird's avoid boost does synergize nicely with Duelist's Blow, which is fun.  Yeah, yeah, Yuri already has Windsweep, I know, but building some Avoid + DB does allow you to get double attacks off somewhat safely and this occasionally matters (if still prooooobably not worth the skill slot).  I usually associate Edmund Troops as less a hybrid battalion and more a "for extremely low accuracy units" battalion - e.g. if you've built a battle-Marianne trying to hit stuff with her not-very-accurate spell list, or for certain axe-users who want to make sure both their Brave Axe hits connect or the like.

[haarhaarhaar]

6 hours ago, SnowFire said:

I usually associate Edmund Troops as less a hybrid battalion and more a "for extremely low accuracy units" battalion - e.g. if you've built a battle-Marianne trying to hit stuff with her not-very-accurate spell list, or for certain axe-users who want to make sure both their Brave Axe hits connect or the like.

I think this is the general perception of the battalion in the meta as well, although I also feel that it's a slightly unfair one (sorry for skipping ahead!). Not least because of the overlap between lower-accuracy builds and hybrids. For example, Sniper Ingrid (switching between physical/mag Hunter's Volley depending on enemy), War Monk Yuri (his hit rates aren't bad generally, the battalion just takes some pressure off his skillset), or a Byleth that also uses Faith (god forbid, but fishing for Aura crits or Nosferatu doubles becomes that much easier).

[Dark Holy Elf]

18 hours ago, SnowFire said:

Elf: Hmm, I guess availability metrics will differ by ranker, but I really don't agree that Lorenz is more available than Balthus.  If you're doing a physical Byleth build (e.g. the popular Falcon/Wyvern Lord line, etc.) it's very reasonable to sac Byleth's magic training entirely, which makes Lorenz at least a little out of the way (whether by pointless Reason training or via lunchtime / gift bribery).  Balthus is just totally free, meanwhile, if you can beat his Paralogue (which I do agree is one of the harder ones).  More generally, even if Lorenz really was more available, I think baking in a variety of "cases" where But What If Situation X Happens is fair.

All of this is fair, but there's an elephant in the room here: Thyrsus. The sheer power of that relic means that any player who knows about it is incentivized to recruit Lorenz (even if it's just"get him to B support once you can buy gifts and then wait for him to ask"), and players who don't know about it are unlikely to have already played Cindered Shadows. Thus, situations where one has Dicers but not Gloucester feels like a bit of an edge case to me. Not impossible, I'll grant. But on the other side of things, situations where one has Gloucester and not Dicers are relatively more common thanks to the latter being DLC (and thus to me, it's the one that benefits from "what if situation X happens" considerations).

The score difference for me ultimately comes down to generally viewing Gloucester as something I always use, whereas Leicester Dicers only come out to play if I'm using a large number of hybrids or even larger number of mages.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 11/21/2022 at 4:35 AM, SnowFire said:

Arnault Goddess Circle: 6/10.  Think I missed rating this one from when we did the Eagles pre-skip battalions.  A very strange battalion that lets you equip another battalion on top of it, but denies you your accessory slot.  I guess regen can be handy on some maps and if you didn't deploy a lot of healers, so it's okay, but not really required or anything.

Really weird one - it didn't even provide a gambit! Or... wait, now I remember! It provided Recovery Roar. Ah, I'm looking back fondly on all the times that gambit really saved my life...

On 11/21/2022 at 6:52 AM, haarhaarhaar said:

If it's possible to modify gradings @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate, I'd like to raise my grading for Duscur to an 8/10. I think in hindsight @Dark Holy Elf was right, and I was underrating this a bit - using it on my current run has made Part 1 paralogues a lot easier, and will probably make face-tanking a lot easier even for people I don't normally consider for the def-tank slot. I've been looking at battalions on my current run, and it may make endgame based on current performance, so raising my score by a whole point is my way of trying to reflect that change in opinion.

Just updated it from 7 -> 8 in my private document. This will show up in the final scores at the very end.

@DaveCozy I just added your score for Kingdom Archers! It will be reflected in the final scores, when I update them at the end. By the way, any thoughts on the battalions we are considering this round? 

Regarding the "Chalice" discussion (which has mostly died down by this point), while I've enjoyed it, I do think it strays a bit from the battalion rankings. That said, I do think it could be great as its own thread. Either talking about the Chalice on its own, or alongside the other DLC bonuses. Which ones feel "cheap" to use, and which ones feel "earned"? I'm too busy right now to kick off that sort of thread on my own, but if someone else makes it, I would definitely contribute. Just saying!

One more thing - yes, today is Thanksgiving in the United States. Yes, I will still be posting a new Round later today. I'd rather not have another hiatus - if we keep pace, we should be able to finish up shortly before Christmas. If you're not able to post today though, that is fine; Round 15 will be "live" until this Sunday.

[DaveCozy]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I just added your score for Kingdom Archers! It will be reflected in the final scores, when I update them at the end. By the way, any thoughts on the battalions we are considering this round? 

Neat thanks!

Secret Transport Force is a 6/10 for me; stats are okay, availability is bad in CF and non-existent in SS, but the utility of flying Stride is good to have if looking for something like a 2 or 3 turn clear. 1-turning too, although since deployment is usually pretty close together I'd think Gautier and Seiros Monks would be sufficient for that. Being flying makes it much more important though, since options are limited in that department. What really kills the rating for me is how awful that paralogue is.

I can't really grade the others, I don't use DLC much in the main game.

Edited November 24, 2022 by DaveCozy

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Happy Thanksgiving, one and all! Even if you're not celebrating, that's alright. There's always time to be thankful for strong battalions! Speaking of which, we have some scores to go over:

Spoiler

Leicester Dicers Corps received 5 scores, averaging out to 6.71

Timotheos Magi Corps received 5 scores, averaging out to 8.41

Mockingbird's Thieves received 5 scores, averaging out to 4.28

Nuvelle Fliers Corps received 5 scores, averaging out to 8

Secret Transport Force received 6 scores, averaging out to 7.05

Looks like the magical DLC battalions really enchanted most players! When it came to the hybrid ones, though, players were a bit more... mixed.

Round 15: Outset of a Power Struggle By Daybreak

Have... have we made it to the timeskip? Well, yes, but actually no. In fact, today we'll be considering two battalions that come before the timeskip, in chapter 12 (on CF), and two that show up right after the timeskip, in chapter 13 (on AM and VW, respectively). With CF's shorter post-skip period, however, it felt appropriate to group all of them together. Here are the battalions in question:

Vestra Sorcery Engineers

Spoiler

Accessibility: C-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only), assigned to Hubert automatically

Gambit: Resonant Lightning

Endurance: 75

Phys: -2

Mag: +3 / +7

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: +5 / +10

Prt: 0 / +4

Rsl: +2 / +6

Cha: +7

Supreme Armored Co.

Spoiler

Accessibility: C-rank Armored

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only), assigned to Edelgard automatically

Gambit: Raging Flames

Endurance: 120

Phys: +3 / +7

Mag: +2 / +6

Hit: 0 / +5

Crit: 0

Avo: -10

Prt: +2 / +6

Rsl: +1 / +5

Cha: +10

King of Lions Corps

Spoiler

Accessibility: C-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 13 (AM only), assigned to Dimitri automatically

Gambit: Wave Attack

Endurance: 120

Phys: +5 / +10

Mag: -2

Hit: 0 / +5

Crit: +10 / +15

Avo: -5

Prt: +1 / +5

Rsl: 0

Cha: +10

Immortal Corps

Spoiler

Accessibility: C-rank Flying

Availability: From chapter 13 (VW only), assigned to Claude automatically

Gambit: Ashes and Dust

Endurance: 120

Phys: +4 / +8

Mag: -2

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: +10 / +15

Prt: 0 / +4

Rsl: 0

Cha: +10

As for my opinions on the quartet in question, any queries can be answered by the quadrangle below.

Spoiler

Availability:

Vestra Sorcery Engineers and Supreme Armored Corps show up in chapter 12 (CF only), while King of Lions Corps and Immortal Corps are auto-equipped at the start of chapter 13 (AM and VW only, respectively). In either case, the game is more than half-over before they become available. Therefore, they all get a mere 2 points in this regard.

Accessibility:

All of these battalions demand C-rank Authority. Immortal Corps is a flying battalion, so it earns a 4 in this area. The other three are grounded, each earning a 3 here.

Gambit:

Vestra Sorcery Engineers provide Resonant Lightning, and I have to say, not giving us a Dark-themed offensive magical gambit comes across as a massive missed opportunity. But for all its Hit issues, Resonant Lightning has a great area-of-effect and damage output. It earns 6 points.

Supreme Armored Co. (wait, is "Co." short for "Corps"?) have the Raging Flames gambit. Before you get excited, unlike Group Flames and Resonant Flames, it's a physical gambit. Still, it has a unique area-of-effect, hitting two rows of five tiles each - and a second use, to boot. It's worth 8 points.

King of Lions Corps offer the Wave Attack, which doesn't sound too threatening. Waves are all over the ocean, and they're more fun than threatening. But this one hits like a tsunami, doing effective anti-Armor damage and hitting a diamond area-of-effect, potentially rattling as many as 12 enemies. And with a second use, it earns 9 points.

Immortal Corps are masters of the Ashes and Dust gambit, which has the same diamond area-of-effect as the last one. But this time, the effective damage is dealt to flying targets. And while the last gambit needs an adjacent target, this one can be used 2 or 3 tiles away. In my opinion, this is the strongest gambit in the game, so nothing less than a 10 makes sense.

Stats:

Vestra Sorcery Engineers must have majored in the Magical Engineering track, because their stats are headlined by +7 Magic, with a cost of -2 Attack. +10 to Avoid, +4 to Prt, +6 to Resilience, and an outsized +7 Charm round it out. Sounds pretty good for a C-rank battalion, no? Still, let's compare against Nuvelle Fliers (whom I gave an 8 in stats). The Vestra battalion have -2 Physical Attack, -5 Hit, -1 Rsl, -1 Cha, and only +4 Prt. Unless you really want the Prt, I'd say they're a step behind. That's why I'm giving them a 7.

Supreme Armored Co. are a hybrid battalion, albeit a slightly imbalanced one. +7 Physical Attack and +6 Protection barely outshine +6 Magical Attack and +5 Resilience. +5 Hit is nice, as is an outsized +10 Charm, but they do inflict -10 Avoid. If we compare against an earlier hybrid battalion, Leicester Dicers, they have -1 Magic and -10 Avoid, but +1 Prt and +5 Cha. I'd view these as pretty lateral if you don't care about dodging, so this squad gets a 9.

There's no one to really compare the King of Lions Corps too. That's because they absolutely destroy the competition in perhaps the most important area, delivering +10 physical attack. This is complemented by +5 Hit, +15 Crit, +5 Prt, and another +10 Charm. It's not all good news, though, as it inflicts -2 Magic and -5 Avoid. The latter effect doesn't exactly synergize with Dimitri's personal ability, but then again, the battalion is by no means exclusive to him. But with that loss, and the rather modest Hit boost, I think they deserve a 9.

Looking at Immortal Corps, they offer the largest offensive boost among flying battalions (on VW), with +8 physical attack. They also provide +15 Avoid, making them ideal for a dodgetank. +4 Prt and +10 Charm are also there, as is -2 Magic, so they're less-than-ideal for a magical flier. The lack of a Hit boost is actually a serious bummer. Compared to Cichol Wyvern Co. they have +1 Attack and +10 Avoid, but -15 Hit, -15 Crit, -2 Prt, -1 Rsl, and -2 Magic. To my own surprise, I'm actually dropping this battalion down to 8.

Uniqueness:

Vestra Sorcery Engineers may have the only Engineering degree in the game, but does that make them unique? Not unless I'm interested in building an enchanted aqueduct. Resonant Lightning isn't unique on CF (Nuvelle Fliers already brought it). +7 Magical Attack is great for a C-rank battalion, but behind Nuvelle Attendants. Still, this kind of boost is uncommon enough that I guess they warrant 1 point.

Supreme Armored Co. no longer provide the strongest hybrid offensive boosts, thanks to the DLC. However, as the only battalion to offer the Raging Flames gambit, they are strictly unique. They earn 3 points.

King of Lions Corps are unique in two regards. Not only do they provide the largest boost to physical attack in the game, but they also are the only source of the Wave Attack gambit. If I could give them 4, I would. But I can't, or I simply refuse to, so they earn a 3 here.

Immortal Corps also have the highest attack boost (within their route... among flying battalions...), but their true uniqueness comes from the Ashes and Dust gambit. Surprising no one, they also earn a 3.

Convenience:

The game literally hands all four of these battalions to you. Well, two, one, one, or zero of them (sorry, Silver Snow players). It takes no effort to obtain these battalions, so they couldn't be more convenient. They get a 3.

Endurance:

Vestra Sorcery Engineers have 75 durability, while the other three "Lord Battalions" hit the ceiling with 120 durability. That's enough for each of them to earn a 2.

Experience:

I found myself using Vestra Sorcery Engineers quite a bit on my CF run - maybe because the DLC wasn't out yet? Still, they provided solid boosts, especially to any mages who hadn't reached B-rank yet. Even for those who have, I think the stats more or less hold up to the Endgame. They get a 2 from me.

Supreme Armored Co. definitely got use from me as well. Hybrid attacker, physical, magical, defensive tank? They all can enjoy this one, even if it's not strictly the best in any of those roles. Raging Flames might just be the best offensive gambit available on CF, too, so I always wanted to field them. Worth another 2.

King of Lions Corps... I honestly forget who I used these on. I'm sure I did, though, because I would've been a fool not to. A formidable attack boost for physical units, great Charm for units who may be struggling there, and the best physical gambit on Azure Moon make this a must-use. Another 2.

Immortal Corps is probably my favorite battalion to use in the game - at least, my favorite physical one with an offensive gambit. It's top-of-the-line for a physical flier, perhaps excepting those with serious hit issues. In any case, Ashes and Dust is something I wouldn't go a chapter without. These get a 2, but if I could give them a 3, I would.

Final Scores:

Vestra Sorcery Engineers: 2 + 3 + 6 + 7 (*2) + 1 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 33 -> 6.6

Supreme Armored Co.: 2 + 3 + 8 + 9 (*2) + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 41 -> 8.2

King of Lions Corps: 2 + 3 + 9 (*2) + 9 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 42 -> 8.4

Immortal Corps: 2 + 4 + 10 (*2) + 8 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 44 -> 8.8

Well, those are the scores! Not a ton of battalions today, but a lot to say about them. In any case, what do you think? Are my own grades fair, or have I erred in my judgement? I wanna hear what you think in the comments!

[lenticular]

Vestra Sorcery Engineers: 6/10. A little disappointing overall. +7 magic attack is nice, and while Resonant Lightning is the worst of the resonant magic gambits, it's still not terrible. The bonuses to prot and avoid don't offer much to most mage characters, since they prefer to sit in the back and not be the target of any attacks in the first place. They can find a place on something like a Frozen Lance Paladin, but that sort of build often prefers to have the option to make physical attacks as well so won't be appreciating the -2 to physical attacks. Having B-rank stats on a C-rank battalion is a nice perk, but this comes along too late for that to be as strong as it might otherwise be. But it does make this a good choice for any mage lagging behind on Authority, with Hapi being an obvious candidate.

Supreme Armored Co: 8/10. The weakest of the three Lord battalions, largely because the unique class that they're optimised for is the weakest of the three unique Lord classes. The stats here are pretty comparable to Gloucester Knights. +1 to physical attack, +1 to prot, and +3 to charm, but at a cost of -10 each to hit and avoid. Overall, I'd view that as probably a very minor upgrade. But where these really outclass the Gloucester Knights is their gambit. Raging Flames is really good. On the other hand, where these are worse than the Gloucester Knights is availability, coming in a full 5 chapters later.

King of Lions Corps: 9/10. +10 physical attack: fantastic. Wave attack: fantastic. +10 charm: fantastic. C-rank authority: fantastic. +15 crit: fantastic. +5 prot: fant... wait? That's not fantastic! That's merely good! Would this ideally like a little bit more hit and a little bit of res? Sure. Is that enough to stop this being an outstanding battalion for any grounded physical attacker? Not even close.

Imoortal Corps: 10/10. Comparable comments to King of Lions, except that this flies, and flying is better than not flying. The best attack and the best avoid on any flying battalion makes this a must use. Add in the best offensive gambit in the game shoots this into the stratosphere. We've discussed before the trade-off between good gambits and good stats, and how the choice can often come down to play style. But why not pick a battalion that does both? I said way back when that the Seiros Holy Monks might be my personal pick for best battalion in the game. This is the only battalion that makes me question that.

[SnowFire]

Vestra Sorcery Engineers: 6/10.  They're pretty much Nuvelle Fliers at C-Rank, but lacking the little Hit boost (+5) and a few other stats.  A minor upgrade on Empire Magic Corps if you want more magic damage and can compensate for a less accurate gambit with supports.  The +10 Avoid is kind of interesting as being rare among Empire magic-battalions (Nuvelle Fliers has it too, of course) if you've somehow built a magicy dodgetank (Dancer Dorothea with +20 Sword Avo, maybe?).  That said, this is gained late enough that at least some of your mages should be able to equip B-rank authority battalions, which reduces the need for Yet Another C-Rank battalion - certainly both Timotheos & Nuvelle Fliers are better if you did those Paralogues, and Nuvelle Chamberlains Attendants still exists too at C-rank (especially for support-ier mages like low-Charm Linhardt).  I feel like you have to be running a lot of mages for this to be notably good, but I suppose it's fine if you are.
Supreme Armored Co.: 9/10.  Great gambit, great hybrid battalion.  Synergizes well with a Warrior / Emperor / Mortal Savant Edelgard since her Magic growth is decent and she can swing a Bolt Axe around better, but also is fine on Any Random Hybrid you're running (Dark Knight Sylvain/Lorenz or something).  The Hit bonus could be a little higher, and the avoid penalty is a bit of an oof that keeps it off potential dodgetanks like Ferdinand, but it's still a Lord battalion.
King of Lions Corps: 9.5/10.  Wave Attack rules, +10 damage is great, +15 Crit lets it be used for a Vantage / 100 Crit setup.  The only thing stopping it from a 10 is that pesky Avoid penalty - not great synergy with Dimitri's passive!  Kinda weird to be mildly encouraged to move Dimitri's personal battalion over to Felix (who appreciates a good C-Authority battalion) / Ashe / Dedue or the like.
Immortal Corps: 0/10.  Worst case of false advertising I've ever seen.  I decided to test out if they really were immortal and let Claude take repeated hits while healing him.   Maybe they are immortal, but they do break off and run, retreating eventually.  Then you're left with a battalion that does literally nothing!  No stats, no gambit.  Kingdom Youths would be better.  Shame, because they'd be easy 10/10 material if they were actually around with The Best Damaging Gambit and a huge Charm boost to land it, a +15 Avoid boost, and +8 damage.  A Hit boost would have been nice but the lack of one doesn't stop this from being The Best Battalion, and it's actually a bit less relevant than usual since when Barbarossa Claude doesn't fire at range 3 all that often (just Failnaught or Curved Shots, and Curved Shots pack a healthy Hit boost.).

Edited November 26, 2022 by SnowFire

[haarhaarhaar]

20 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Just updated it from 7 -> 8 in my private document. This will show up in the final scores at the very end.

Thank you very much! Will add an edit in brackets to my original post.

 

Vestra Sorcery Engineers - 7/10

The weakest of the lieutenant battalions, which is a shame. Hubert and Dorothea should be comfortably getting B Authority at some point (although if you've screwed up his training Hubert may be back at C Rank when this becomes accessible) and thus won't need this later on - but it's still very competitive for C-Rank, and a good shout for Linhardt/an out-of-house mage. The fact that it is CF-locked actually raises its value in my opinion, because you can dump Authority on a mage that is still lagging going into the truncated Part 2, meaning more focus on A+ Reason or a magic weapon build - on other routes this benefit is much less relevant. Stats-wise, it's probably the weakest magic battalion that I'm fielding at endgame. But the fact that I'm fielding it from join to endgame means it gets a 7.

Supreme Armored Co. - 7.85/10

Raging Flames is truly excellent - on its own that nets the battalion at least a 7. But Edelgard, with her high charm, Authority boon, and the lure of Wyvern Lord, will likely run something better suited to her build for the later game, so this doesn't really belong on her. As pointed out above, its stats are best for hybrids, competing with Gloucester Knights and the Dicers - although +7 physical Atk at C, like the battalion before it, means that any physical unit lagging in Authority (i.e. Caspar if you're running him) also appreciates it. This also has a solid buff to Def and Res, but CF is the worst route for face-tanking things. It's a strong battalion, but underwhelming for a lord.

King of Lions Corps - 8.5/10

Only a small Hit boost, a penalty to Avo, and no flying, mean that there will be some physical units (including versions of Dimitri) that don't want this battalion. But literally every other physical unit does. And at C Authority, they can actually have it. A stellar battalion.

Immortal Corps - 9/10

Its stats are a bit worse than King of Lions. But unlike King of Lions, there is no physical unit in the game that won't want or appreciate this battalion. Primarily for Ashes and Dust, which would still make this the best battalion in the game even if there were no non-Cha stat boosts. But I'm not complaining about +8 physical Atk on a Flying battalion, or +15 Avo either. I genuinely wanted to give this a lower score, but in good conscience I can't - this really is the best battalion in the game. 

[haarhaarhaar]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:48 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

At least per the wiki, the healing amount of Resonant White Magic only depends on the user's Magic stat. Charm doesn't come into the equation (same with other support gambits), so it's function on this group is purely defensive. I don't know whether the "White Magic Heal +5/10" skills, from Priest/Bishop respectively, come into play. I could honestly see them going either way. I assume the Authority Lv. X skills have no effect, but I haven't tested this yet.

Having just tested it, I can confirm that Charm stats, class boosts like the White Magic Heal +5/10 skills, and Authority Lvl skills have no effect on the power of Resonant White Magic - the only determinant is the unit's Magic stat. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

Vestra Sorcery Engineers: 8 stats, 7 gambit. C rank grounded, C12.

A solid magic battalion, short of great, and the C rank makes it a good fit for anyone lagging in authority. More hit would be nice, but at least it has a non-trash Prot stat. It's a good trade up on Nuvelle Attendants (similar stats, but actually has a gambit). I usually use this but it might get shuffled out late.

In a vacuum: 7.5. Adjusted: 7/10

Supreme Armored Co: 8 stats, 9 gambit. C rank grounded, C12.

Gloucester with some stats moved around, at C rank. Like Gloucester it's certainly good enough to use even if you're not a hybrid, and great if you are. Getting it later is a downside, but to help make up for that it comes with one of the best offensive gambits in the game. Someone is using this.

In a vacuum: 8.5. Adjusted: 8.5/10

King of Lions Corps: 10 stats, 9.5 gambit. C rank grounded, C13.

+10 atk makes it one of the three battalions I would consider for the title of "best overall stats in the game" (the others being Goneril and Cichol). Wave Attack is also great. C authority is great. For Dimitri specifically the hit/avo numbers could be better; it's not a well-designed battalion for him honestly! But someone will put this to excellent use. +10 cha and 60 base hit makes the gambit easy to use even if your charm is mediocre, so I often find Felix gets this one.

In a vacuum: 9.5. Adjusted: 9/10

Immortal Corps: 9 stats, 10 gambit. C rank flying, C13.

The only stats that are very high are Atk/Avo/Cha, but those are all best in class and those are some nice stats to specialize in anyway. This would be a high-tier battalion even if its stats were garbage, because Ashes and Dust is that good. It would be a top-tier battalion if it had the stats/gambit it does but was grounded. As is... yikes. An incredible tool which makes the arguable hardest fight in the game significantly easier on VW than the other two routes on which it appears, can break 3x3 bosses by itself, has the best stats for a flying dodgetank, has the highest atk of any flying battalion. Makes all the most effective strategies in this game even better. Yeah, given the score boost all flying battalions get from me, I'm pretty comfortable calling this the best battalion in the game.

In a vacuum: 9.5. Adjusted: 10/10.
 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Good day, one and all! I hope you are doing well for yourselves. What have I got going on today? Well, I have to talk about our scores for last round, of course!

Spoiler

Vestra Sorcery Engineers received 5 scores, averaging out to 6.52

Supreme Armored Co. received 5 scores, averaging out to 8.31

King of Lions Corps received 5 scores, averaging out to 8.88

Immortal Corps received 5 scores, averaging out to 9.56

Apparently, the Vestra battalion didn't exactly graduate at the top of their class. That said, Edelgard's battalion reigns supreme, while Dimitri's battalion is something to take pride in. And Claude's battalion will live forever in our memories.

Round 16: Best Buys of the Black Eagles

This round, we'll be looking at eight new battalions. These are all specific to the Adrestian Empire, and can be hired at the Battalion Guild. When they are acquired, however, actually varies with how you play. Should you choose to side with Edelgard, activating the Crimson Flower route, then they are available in chapter 12 - immediately before the assault on Garreg Mach. However, if you side with the Church, activating the Silver Snow route, then they cannot be hired until chapter 14, after the timeskip. So, what are these battalions?

Empire Heavy Soldiers

Spoiler

Accessibility: B-rank Armored

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only) or 14 (SS only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 2000 Gold

Gambit: Line of Lances

Endurance: 75

Phys: +2 / +6

Mag: -2

Hit: +5 / +15

Crit: 0

Avo: -10

Prt: +5 / +9

Rsl: +1

Cha: +7

Empire Holy Magic Users

Spoiler

Accessibility: B-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only) or 14 (SS only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 2000 Gold

Gambit: Blessing

Endurance: 60

Phys: -2

Mag: +2 / +6

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: 0 / +4

Rsl: +3 / +7

Cha: +8

Empire Raiders

Spoiler

Accessibility: B-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only) or 14 (SS only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 2000 Gold

Gambit: Absorption

Endurance: 75

Phys: +3 / +7

Mag: 0

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: +5 / +10

Prt: 0 / +4

Rsl: 0

Cha: +7

Imperial Guard

Spoiler

Accessibility: B-rank Armored

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only) or 14 (SS only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 2000 Gold

Gambit: Blaze

Endurance: 75

Phys: +3 / +7

Mag: -2

Hit: 0

Crit: +10

Avo: 0

Prt: 0 / +4

Rsl: 0

Cha: +7

Empire Elite Wyvern Co.

Spoiler

Accessibility: B-rank Flying

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only) or 14 (SS only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 2000 Gold

Gambit: Assembly

Endurance: 75

Phys: +4 / +8

Mag: -2

Hit: 0

Crit: +5 / +10

Avo: 0

Prt: +2 / +6

Rsl: 0

Cha: +7

Black Eagle Heavy Axes

Spoiler

Accessibility: A-rank Armored

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only) or 14 (SS only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 2500 Gold

Gambit: Onslaught

Endurance: 105

Phys: +3 / +7

Mag: 0

Hit: 0

Crit: +10

Avo: -10

Prt: +4 / +8

Rsl: +2

Cha: +10

Black Eagle Cavalry

Spoiler

Accessibility: A-rank Cavalry

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only) or 14 (SS only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 2500 Gold

Gambit: Linked Horses

Endurance: 105

Phys: +3 / +7

Mag: 0

Hit: +10 / +20

Crit: 0

Avo: +5

Prt: +1 / +5

Rsl: 0

Cha: +10

Black Eagle Pegasus Co.

Spoiler

Accessibility: A-rank Flying

Availability: From chapter 12 (CF only) or 14 (SS only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 2500 Gold

Gambit: Retribution

Endurance: 105

Phys: +3 / +7

Mag: 0

Hit: 0

Crit: +10

Avo: +5 / +10

Prt: +1 / +5

Rsl: +3 / +7

Cha: +10

There's quite a lot of them this week, but are they even worth the time of day? I'll share my own thoughts in the box below:

Spoiler

Availability:

These are all available starting in chapter 12 (on CF) or chapter 14 (on SS). Either way, you're through more than half the game before they become available. As such, they all get a 2.

Accessibility:

Empire Heavy Soldiers, Empire Holy Magic Users, Empire Raiders, and Imperial Guard are all B-rank grounded. So they all get a 2.

Empire Elite Wyvern Co. is B-rank Flying, so they get a 3.

Black Eagle Heavy Axes and Black Eagle Cavalry are A-rank Grounded, leaving them at a 1.

Black Eagle Pegasus Co. are A-rank Flying, so they get a 2.

Gambit:

Empire Heavy Soldiers fight with the Linked Lances gambit, an anti-cavalry gambit that attacks in a box formation, up to twice per map. It's a fairly reliable (and rare) physical gambit, so they get a 6.

Empire Holy Magic Users bring the Blessing gambit, which can be used once per map to help a hanful of allies survive. It's a cool effect, especially on Vengeance or Defiant builds, but its limitations leave it with a 4.

Empire Raiders offer the Absorption gambit, which can steal HP from a huge crowd of enemies... on the rare occasion that it actually lands. It gets a 2.

Imperial Guard have the Blaze gambit, attacking a "triangle" of foes once per map. It's a decent tool for stunning a bunch of foes, so it gets 5.

Empire Elite Wyvern Co. have the Assembly gambit, which can only attack up to two foes at a time. It's not very accurate or hard-hitting, either, so it gets 2.

Black Eagle Heavy Axes provide the Onslaught gambit, which isn't all that much better than Assembly. So let's give it a 3.

Black Eagle Cavalry use the Linked Horses gambit. It's kind of like Linked Lances, but without the effective damage... or a second use... wait, why are we using this again? It gets a 3.

Black Eagle Pegasus Co. get the Retribution gambit, a rare support gambit that can change the way you play the game. Enemies who could previously strike from afar will have a nasty surprise awaiting them. It gets a 10.

Stats:

Empire Heavy Soldiers are a traditional armored battalion, granting +6 physical Attack and a whopping +9 Protection. +15 Avoid and +1 Resilience are factors as well, while demerits include -2 Magic and -10 Avoid. This makes it an excellent choice for defensive tanks on CF or SS playthroughs, while being less-than-ideal for dodgetanks. Still, I think it's a solid 8.

Empire Holy Magic Users are, naturally, a magic-oriented battalion. This one grants +6 Magic, +4 Prt, +7 Rsl, and a weirdly outsized +8 Charm. It does inflict a loss of -2 Attack, though. Relative to Empire Magic Users, it trades 10 Crit for 1 Magic, 4 Prt, 3 Rsl, and 3 Cha. A winning trade, sure, but not enough to bump it beyond 6.

Empire Raiders are a very simple battalion, offering +7 Attack, +10 Avoid, and +4 Prt. It's kind of like a souped-up Empire Brawlers, with more Attack, defensive stats, and Charm. I would say it's worth a 6.

Imperial Guard may be an Armored battalion, but their defensive potential is lacking, only affording +4 Prt. They also offer +7 Attack and +10 Crit, while inflicting -2 Magic. Not a big change relative to the Guard - do you want Crit, or would you rather have Avoid? These get a 6 as well.

Empire Elite Wyvern Co. present a fierce +8 Attack alongside +10 Crit and +6 Protection. There is -2 Magic here as well, unfortunately. It's a strong choice for any physical flier who isn't looking for more Hit or Avoid, so I think it deserves a 7.

Black Eagle Heavy Axes are yet another Armored Battalion. Compared to the Heavy Soldiers, they give a bit more Attack, Crit, Rsl, and Charm, but less Hit and Prt. Which one you'd prefer is situational, I think, so I'm giving them an 8.

Black Eagle Cavalry grant a strong +7 Attack and +20 Hit, alongside +5 Avoid and +5 Prt. Attack and Hit are my favorite stats for "all-purpose" battalions (those not intended for dodge- or defense-tanking), so this bodes well for them. They're a step behind Indech Sword Fighters (1 less Attack, 10 less Crit, 1 more Prt, 5 more Avoid), so I think an 8 is warranted.

Black Eagle Pegasus Co. don't offer Magic or Hit, but aside from those stats, the gang's all here. There's more Resilience and Avoid than Cichol Wyvern Co., but less Crit and Prt, plus no Hit... I'll put 'em a step behind, at 9.

Uniqueness:

Empire Heavy Soldiers, Empire Raiders, and Black Eagle Cavalry each offer a gambit that's unique to their routes (CF and SS) - Line of Lances, Absorption, and Linked Horses. That earns them each a 3.

Empire Elite Wyvern Co. have the highest physical Attack boost of any flying battalion on CF/SS, so they get a 2.

Black Eagle Pegasus Co. are the only flying source of Retribution. Is that superior to grounded Retribution? Not outside of niche circumstances, but I guess I"ll give it a 1.

The other three have nothing especially unique going for them, so they all get a 0 in this sense.

Convenience:

All of these battalions can be hired at the Battalion Guild. They're more expensive than the previous batches, but by this point in the game, money should be no object for the player. As such, they all get a 2.

Endurance:

Empire Holy Magic Users only have 60 durability, which feels downright anemic for this point in the game, and gets them a 1.

The "Black Eagle" battalions have 105 durability, while the remainder have 75 durability each. That's solid enough to get them each a 2.

Experience:

I've used Black Eagle Pegasus Co. once or twice for the Retribution support, while Empire Elite Wyvern Co. and Empire Heavy Soldiers also saw some use for me. At least, I'm pretty sure. It's been a while since I played CF. They all get a 1.

The rest get a 0. I'm not sure I've ever used any of them. That shouldn't be taken as a statement on their quality, but they come at a point in the game where I already have a bunch of trained-up paralogue battalions.

Final Scores:

Empire Heavy Soldiers: 2 + 2 + 6 + 8 (*2) + 3 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 34 -> 6.8

Empire Holy Magic Users: 2 + 2 + 4 + 6 (*2) + 0 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 23 -> 4.6

Empire Raiders: 2 + 2 + 2 + 6 (*2) + 3 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 26 -> 5.2

Imperial Guard: 2 + 2 + 5 + 6 (*2) + 0 + 2 + 2 + 0 = 25 -> 5.0

Empire Elite Wyvern Co.: 2 + 3 + 2 + 7 (*2) + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 28 -> 5.6

Black Eagle Heavy Axes: 2 + 1 + 3 + 8 (*2) + 0 + 2 + 2 + 0 = 26 -> 5.2

Black Eagle Cavalry: 2 + 1 + 3 + 8 (*2) + 3 + 2 + 2 + 0 = 29 -> 5.8

Black Eagle Pegasus Co.: 2 + 2 + 10 (*2) + 9 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 39 -> 7.8

So, there are my thoughts! What do you think about these battalions? Please let me know!

[SnowFire]

Ah, the great disappointments beyond the timeskip.  As mentioned before, I'm a fan of baking in a variety of scenarios, but a lot of these require some strange or unusual scenarios like doing a no-Paralogue run.  At least the Eagles don't have too many "free" battalions by now (just Supreme Armored & Vestra), but if you do recruit *anybody* and do their paralogues including various faculty recruits like Seteth's Cichol, you get some exceptionally strong competition that is crowding out these later battalions that you need to train up.  DLC was especially significant with all those great C and B battalions that are easy to get.  Ergo, expect some general harshness in scoring, and probably pop all the points up by a point or so for no-DLC runs.

Also, to the extent it matters, being reminded of Vestra makes me even more distrustful of going along with the higher score for Empire Magic Users (my "grudging" 7/10, maybe shoulda marked it down).  Still useful in Silver Snow, but meh, as a fan of Nuvelle Attendants, you really have to be running a lot of mages or to have missed out on the Wolves battalions somehow to use it more long-term.

Empire Heavy Soldiers: 5/10. It's Duscur Heavy Soldiers except gained much later and with -1 Attack and -1 Prot.  +15 Hit saves it from irrelevance so maaaaybe if you've got some ground-pounder with accuracy issues, but post-timeskip, you start getting more feasible access to stuff like Meteor linked attacks or Bow Knights that helps fix accuracy problems.  You're probably better off keeping Empire Armored Co. for Impregnable Wall if you actually want to tank in post-timeskip Maddening, +9 Prot is nice but it still won't save you from the scary stuff.

Empire Holy Magic Users: 6/10.  It has +6 Magic and Blessing.  If you need a Blessing-user, this will get deployed (maybe handy for Leonie & Lin's paralogue, or the SS final boss?).

Empire Raiders: 1/10.  Hahahahaha no.  Bad gambit, bad stats, worse than other options you already had access to at lower Authority thresholds.

Imperial Guard: 2/10.  Some sort of cruel mockery of Leicester Mercs, same gambit in Blaze but worse at everything.  (Granted, Raphael isn't an Eagle, but useful point of comparison regardless.)  In theory your Killer Bow Sniper could use this (+7 damage, +10 crit) but you should have so many better options by now.

Empire Elite Wyvern Co.: 6/10.  It's a flying battalion!  It's worse than Cichol, but is only B-Authority.  Not a strict upgrade on Empire Pegasus Co. either, lacking +15 Hit and +6 Resilience.  Still, it's solid if you didn't recruit Ingrid and/or you're running a ton of flyers and/or didn't get your flyer to A-Authority yet.

Black Eagle Heavy Axes: 0/10.  WTF No.  Just run Empire Heavy Soldiers instead, which is better at everything and doesn't require A-Authority.  I can't imagine a situation this would ever be equipped in, it's too bad to use even if you skipped every paralogue, and it's more expensive and requires more Authority than other storebought battalions.  And you get ONSLAUGHT, literally the starter gambit from it?!  At least the Empire Raiders only asked for B-Authority to suck with.

Black Eagle Cavalry: 1/10.  Deeply disappointing and probably not worth it, outclassed by most Paralogue battalions, but if for some reason you had a glut of A-Authority characters AND refused to do paralogues you might possibly consider equipping this.

Black Eagle Pegasus Co.: 3/10.  Just use Cichol instead? Or Galatea if you recruited Ingrid?  I guess if you didn't recruit Ingrid AND are running a ton of flyers that hit A-Authority I might consider this, but this is deeply unlikely to happen.  It's an option if you want to set up Retribution plays but probably a worse one than Indech Sword which you could have gotten sooner and has better stats.  It's also an option if you want to build TWO flying dodgetanks I guess, but a mere +5 Avoid over Cichol isn't exactly a stirring endorsement for Worse Everything Else.  Probably not worth it on the shorter CF route to build so many A-Authority flyers, but maybe more reasonable on SS, idk.

Edited November 28, 2022 by SnowFire

[haarhaarhaar]

Empire Heavy Soldiers - 5/10

I didn't realise this had so much Prt when fully levelled, but I maintain that CF is the worst route for face-tanking. I'm not sure if this battalion will save you, but enemies really do hit hard Ch. 13-4 on CF, so I doubt it. Technically, though, a def-tank on CF/SS does want it, and it provides a strong boost to Hit and decent Atk, so it doesn't deserve to be below average. 

Empire Holy Magic Users - 2/10

I don't really use Blessing, and this is unlikely to be good enough to make my party on stats alone, even at arrival. I accept that other people use Blessing, and won't be using Essar Research Group, and there's a window between getting this and Hevring Prayer Troops (which you really should be getting on CF/SS because Leonie is so easy to recruit) but how much use are you getting out of this really?

Empire Raiders - joy/10 (2/10)

A diminished imperial power, harking back to visions of a false past, has declared war on your doorstep. It seems like every crisis snowballs without end, each more threatening to your very way of life. The merchant class are hoarding their gold, and the streets are somber. It's no time to be joking around... but nobody can live without laughter. So yes, Empire Raiders brings you something more than a decent boost to Atk, or a boost to Avo and Prt that you definitely hadn't known about before now. It brings you good cheer and happiness, absorbing your attention away from the problems mounting at your feet. Who has time to fret about the class system, when you can instead try to land the worst offensive gambit in the game, to recover health you didn't need to begin with? You can't put a score on something like that. Of course, if I tried to, it'd be a low score, because this is crap, and I'd never be caught messing around with it in Part 2. No really, never.

But you can't put a score on joy. 

Imperial Guard - 2/10

Blaze only just about saves this from total irrelevance - but I don't think anyone needs to bother levelling this up, for measly benefits over other Blaze battalions, if any.

Empire Elite Wyvern Co. - 7/10

Strongest physical attack buff to your flier on two routes, at B Authority. Its lack of boost to hit is conspicuous (since Empire Wyvern Co. gives +5) - combined with its late join time on CF, that will cap its score at 7. Still, this is probably your no. 3 physical flying battalion on these routes. 

Black Eagle Heavy Axes - 1.5/10

In general, I don't like giving battalions with high stats low scores, but the A-rank requirement for something that probably overall loses to Empire Heavy Soldiers means there's little to no reason to run this. And that's assuming you're even running Empire Heavy Soldiers, which is not an obvious pick. 

Black Eagle Cavalry - 2.5/10

I like Linked Horses (and basically any gambit with solid AoE), but that and its so-so stats aren't good enough to justify hitting A-rank for it. That being said, it's definitely better than the last battalion. 

Black Eagle Pegasus Co. - 3.5/10

I wouldn't run this on CF at all, and flying Retribution is more pointless than flying Stride. But that is technically a niche, and the stats for this battalion are good enough to justify a 4th flier. I've never deployed four physical fliers together, but it occurs to me that as a package this battalion may be helpful for SS endgame, one of the toughest maps going. I'm not sold though, hence the below-average score.