Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Seiros Holy Monks is a 8.5 out of 10. I'm jumping between this and a 9.0 several times during this writeup. I don't have to say a single word about Stride, it's game-changing and remains a useful tool even up to the late game since Movement is the best stat. It is not your only source of Stride, but your other sources are route and DLC-dependent, and come at chapter 7 at the absolute earliest. AM gets the D rank Kingdom Cavs at Chapter 8, and that has better stats all around - especially for physically inclined fighters. But it's unfortunate that the other routes don't have their own equivalent. Sylvain's paralogue and the DLC Anna paralogue provide another, but they are both B rank so you can't just put it on anybody in the mid game. The Holy Monks being E rank is its best quality (Besides simply having Stride). If you're doing a paralogue that involves a unit you're not raising, you can have them equip this batallion and use it on Turn 1 to get your actually good units into the fray. In my current AM run I'm not using Sylvain or Ashe, so guess what batallion I equipped them with for their paralogues? I've also seen a lot of players throw this batallion onto their Physic users. Particularly Linhardt, since his low charm is too unreliable for an attack gambit, nobody needs healing on Turn 1, and he can still do his job just as effectively with his allies up to 20 spaces away from him. The only other gambit choice that makes sense for him is Blessing.

If you can level up this batallion a bit in chapter 3, its Res can be a big help for chapter 4. The mages of that map are far more powerful than the physical enemies, and dropping 600G on a pure water is expensive. Early game mages don't mind equipping this batallion either. If your units all still have 4 mov,  then they're not falling behind as naturally as later on in the game. And they really do appreciate the +10 hit this batallion provides once leveled up. Not sure I agree with the idea that we can assume a decent sized chunk of serious Maddening players will have this as their only source of stride for the whole playthrough. Because one of three Houses will have access to Kingdom Cavs and Sylvain's map for another two, DLC players have a fourth source, and Sylvain is competing with Lorenz for most valuable recruit in the game - not factoring in their viability as a unit. You get so much money and good rewards from that map, including the Gautier Knights which is another of my favorite batallions for the late game. Plus female byleths get to recruit him for free.

Seiros Sacred Monks is a 3.5 out of 10. It is your only feasible source of this gambit in pre-timeskip, but the gambit is no Stride in terms of value. Yes you can heal many of your allies in an emergency, but outside of emergencies, that's a lot experience for your healers you're giving up, and they need levels too. It's the Fortify dilemna, except Fortify actually gives you great exp and is much more valuable in an emergency or as a Faux Physic spell. I think Resonant White Magic is at its most valuable in Chapter 3, for keeping the green units alive. The biggest threat to them is getting crit and likely killed before you have any chance of healing them (damn the developers for not at least putting Sword Prowess 1 on them so they don't get crit), but you need a lot of heals to counteract all the archers who fire from the safety of Fog of War and forest tiles. I always select a Mission Assistance healer to aid in this task, but that unit can't be equipped with a battalion. Also, like the Stride battalion, it grants a lot of Res and Hit +10, so the stats have their uses like I've mentioned with the Holy Monks.

I think what makes this batallion worth its money is its nature as a support gambit. In chapters 3-7, most players typically won't don't have their full roster of units. That means they have extra deployment slots. They can deploy any unit they want, and that unit can contribute with healing at even E authority. Why not an actual, backup healer? Well it can be, still holding this battalion. Because this gambit lets them heal more targets on that turn, including targets that are 1-2 spaces out of their actual Heal range. What I find very annoying about the gambit is that the target needs to have taken some damage, so keep that in mind when lining up units for a heal. Also, and I wouldn't be surprised if nobody else knew this, you can't target a green unit with the gambit, since the game prevents you from targeting green units with gambits. You can still heal green units with this gambit, but you must put an injured blue unit in range for the task. It's annoyingly restrictive.

Seiros Magic Corps is a 4.0 out of 10. Mostly for it's gambit. A weaker but slightly more accurate fusilade that has just one use. And on the BL and GD routes, your first source of Fusilade isn't until chapter 8, so it's worth considering on those routes. Does anybody know if this gambit turns forest tiles into fire tiles for a turn like the Monster Fire Breath move? Because that can make a pesky thief/brawler in a forest easier to hit. I definitely don't think your Mages "need" this, since +1-3 mag attack is a very debatable trade for the added hit of Holy/Sacred Monks in the early game. And mages are often good users of support gambits in the first place. Still, this batallion will likely be worth the 1200G you spent, and you can always sell it when you think you're done with it. The biggest problem is that it's detrimental to the majority of your units (because they are physically inclined units). If Byleth or the Lord characters were more viable as mages, this batallion would be much more meta.

Seiros Pegasus Company is a 7.0 out of 10. Probably the hardest to rate on this list, because it is a contender for your most deployed battalion in a single run of the game. But that's largely because you'll have units with no other choice of batallion. There is only one other D rank flier batallion, and the other one is available in chapter 8. For what it's worth, this batallion's stats aren't bad. Strictly worse than the later batallion you'll buy in chapter 8, but certainly competitive with other chapter 3 options except for Jeralts Mercs. Assembly is pretty terrible, and characterizes the dynamic that fliers are missing out on good gambits. It's bonus effect of dragging back targets isn't typically useful. More useful for the user in getting them a space closer to wherever they'd like to Canto to. If there is a turn where it would be useful for some other reason, the player probably won't notice and take advantage of it. I'd only consider it essential in the Felix paralogue. Stride/Warp your fliers over to the boss, and assembly him off his fortress tile to cut his 91 Avoid to a more manageable 61 avoid.

Knights of Seiros is a 5.0 out of 10. Another likely purchase, although you probably won't buy it quite as early as chapter 3, since Byleth won't have achieved C rank authority by then. The Knights of Seiros can be considered a side grade to Jeralts Mercs in terms of stats and gambit if you're feeling generous, and like Seiros Pegasus, the Chapter 8 route specific version has better stats. This is probably the absolute worst C rank batallion in the game once you've collected the rest, but its early game availability ensures how much it's getting equipped throughout your playthrough. In post time skip, you've no doubt still have units with C or C+authority, and they need filler choices like this and Jeralts Mercs. I have fond memories of Turn 2 of Chapter 6, because your first wave of enemies to the left very naturally bunch themselves up for your one use of Blaze. The batallion also crucially comes with 5 charm at max level, helping your units land the attack. The odds of you nailing six different enemies with one use of Blaze is extremely low, but the shape of the gambit is more ideal for armor breaking Monsters than Assault Troop typically is. I think you get another free copy of this batallion from somewhere in the midgame, but I'd sooner sell it than make use of it.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[LoneRecon400]

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

The batallion also crucially comes with 5 charm at max level, helping your units land the attack.

I think you get another free copy of this batallion from somewhere in the midgame, but I'd sooner sell it than make use of it.

Minor Nitpick: Most battalions get their charm from their Authority rather than level. So a C Rank Battalion always gives 5 Charm even at level 1, which is handy early.

The other free copy of this battalion you can get is on Alois, who can only be recurited by Chapter 11. So yeah, that one is not going to see much use.

Edited September 26, 2022 by LoneRecon400

[lenticular]

2 hours ago, Bylift said:

You get them for free immediately. They are E rank so anyone can use them now matter how early in the game or untrained the unit is (see: Felix with Authority bane). Assault troop is very useful. 15 extra AVO is solid. The 75 durability is usually a B-rank stat. +3 atk ain't bad either. JM stays useful for a very long time. I love it.

I'm not going to argue the general point, because I don't see much point (different people have different play styles and different preferences), but I will comment briefly about using this on Felix in particular. Given Felix's personal ability, giving him Jeralt's Mercs actually ends up giving him -2 physical attack compared to not giving him anything. Trading 2 points of physical attack for 10 points of crit and 15 points of avoid isn't a bad deal overall, but there are certainly going to be times when I'd prefer the attack. And the battalion does give him gambit uses too, of course, but with Felix's low charm and not much help from the battalion and the gambit, it might have reliability issues. It's still not a bad choice for a Felix who is lagging in authority, but it's not a great one.

Of the other characters with an authority weakness, Hapi will usually be doing magical damage and Hilda will often be in a flying class, so I don't think this is a great fit for either of them. I think the unit who might best make use of these past the early game is actually Caspar. He has the authority weakness that means he'll likely be at low authority for longer, he doesn't have the anti-synergy with battalions that Felix has, and if he's using gauntlets then he ends up benefiting doubly from the decent (for E rank) physical attack buff.

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Not sure I agree with the idea that we can assume a decent sized chunk of serious Maddening players will have this as their only source of stride for the whole playthrough. Because one of three Houses will have access to Kingdom Cavs and Sylvain's map for another two, DLC players have a fourth source, and Sylvain is competing with Lorenz for most valuable recruit in the game - not factoring in their viability as a unit. You get so much money and good rewards from that map, including the Gautier Knights which is another of my favorite batallions for the late game. Plus female byleths get to recruit him for free.

  My typical prefered way to play at this point is to only recruit the units that I'm planning to actually use, and not recruit anyone just for paralogue access. I know full well that this isn't optimal, and it isn't what I would do if I was trying to really maximise my chance of victory, but it is the way that I find more fun since it means I have a slightly different set of tools in every run, rather than always relying on exactly the same things each time. I also don't think that any specific paralogue reward is so overwhelmingly strong that it makes all that huge a difference in overall success chance. Sure, Thyrsus is good and the Lance of Ruin + Gautier Knights are good, but none of them are so good as to be indispensable.

So I'm typically assuming that not everyone will be recruited, even if they can be, or even if they would be in "optimal" play. I am curious though if there is any consensus on whether this way of playing is particularly rare, particularly common, or somewhere in the middle. If it is literally just me who plays that way and everyone else is recruiting Sylvain and Anna in every single game, then I might tweak my grading accordingly.

[haarhaarhaar]

1 hour ago, lenticular said:

So I'm typically assuming that not everyone will be recruited, even if they can be, or even if they would be in "optimal" play. I am curious though if there is any consensus on whether this way of playing is particularly rare, particularly common, or somewhere in the middle. If it is literally just me who plays that way and everyone else is recruiting Sylvain and Anna in every single game, then I might tweak my grading accordingly.

Unless it's a challenge run, I recruit everyone that is 'free'. So the DLC characters, however many church/faculty my route allows, Sylvain if I'm playing F!Byleth, and anyone whose requirements my Byleth meets without effort over the course of Part 1 (Ignatz is the most common). On top of these, there are normally other people I want to recruit that run, who don't necessarily fall in that bracket. I don't try to recruit everyone on an NG Maddening run unless it's a specific challenge, but if I am doing an NG playthrough I will have planned my recruitment in advance, and it will normally be as many people as can be accommodated by my Byleth build of choice and moderate amounts of out-of-house support raising.

My impulse is to have as many characters as possible. I agree with you that no recruit/paralogue reward is indispensable, but I struggle to let an obtainable reward pass me by, no matter how many times I play - it's the major reason I burn out on games in general. It also leads me to some odd play choices, like delaying the Shamir paralogue to Ch. 11, when it poses little challenge even on Maddening, just so I can field Alois as a blue unit and get Holy Knights of Seiros. Spoiler alert for this thread, but Holy Knights of Seiros is not worth throwing away all that exp. Anyway, I have the feeling that your policy is far closer to the SF consensus than mine.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

30 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

It also leads me to some odd play choices, like delaying the Shamir paralogue to Ch. 11, when it poses little challenge even on Maddening, just so I can field Alois as a blue unit and get Holy Knights of Seiros. Spoiler alert for this thread, but Holy Knights of Seiros is not worth throwing away all that exp. 

You can actually buy the Holy Knights of Seiros after the time skip. And if you did do that Paralogue with Alois recruited, this allows you to own two copies of it. The same is true of the Macuil Repelling Co (Hanneman) and Indech Sword Fighters (Manuela). Non-recruited Manuela can basically rescue herself in her own paralogue, making the map far easier to complete. The biggest drawback to this decision is that you miss out on having two copies of Indech Sword Fighters for the late game. But I think most players can live with that. You also miss out on having that batallion before the time skip, but good luck having a unit that can equip an A rank so early on.

2 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Minor Nitpick: Most battalions get their charm from their Authority rather than level. So a C Rank Battalion always gives 5 Charm even at level 1, which is handy early.

You know I thought it was weird that charm never levels up on batallions. Now I know why.

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

I think the unit who might best make use of these past the early game is actually Caspar. He has the authority weakness that means he'll likely be at low authority for longer, he doesn't have the anti-synergy with battalions that Felix has, and if he's using gauntlets then he ends up benefiting doubly from the decent (for E rank) physical attack buff.

Caspar also has Hit+10 on nearly every attack thanks to his personal skill, so Jeralts specializing in every other stat besides defense is perfect.

[haarhaarhaar]

14 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

You can actually buy the Holy Knights of Seiros after the time skip. And if you did do that Paralogue with Alois recruited, this allows you to own two copies of it.

Yeah I know, but I wait anyway. It's not about getting the battalion itself, which is simply OK, or about the cost of getting it for free at Chapter 11 vs. buying it at Chapter 14. Doing this paralogue and not getting the battalion here feels like I'm missing a reward that is very easily gettable - especially since the other rewards from that paralogue are also quite meh. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, lenticular said:

So I'm typically assuming that not everyone will be recruited, even if they can be, or even if they would be in "optimal" play. I am curious though if there is any consensus on whether this way of playing is particularly rare, particularly common, or somewhere in the middle. If it is literally just me who plays that way and everyone else is recruiting Sylvain and Anna in every single game, then I might tweak my grading accordingly.

I think it's fine to grade them based on your own experience and playstyle! For my part, I only treat a battalion as totally unique if, on at least one route, it's impossible to get a battalion with a similar trait of value. So while it's hypothetically possible to have a playthrough where Seiros Holy Monks are your only source of Stride, the player can make choices to render it non-exclusive.

3 hours ago, lenticular said:

I'm not going to argue the general point, because I don't see much point (different people have different play styles and different preferences), but I will comment briefly about using this on Felix in particular. Given Felix's personal ability, giving him Jeralt's Mercs actually ends up giving him -2 physical attack compared to not giving him anything. Trading 2 points of physical attack for 10 points of crit and 15 points of avoid isn't a bad deal overall, but there are certainly going to be times when I'd prefer the attack. And the battalion does give him gambit uses too, of course, but with Felix's low charm and not much help from the battalion and the gambit, it might have reliability issues. It's still not a bad choice for a Felix who is lagging in authority, but it's not a great one.

I like to think of Felix as having, by default, an infinite-endurance battalion that grants +5 to each attacking stat, yet offers no gambit. Likewise for Catherine, except that they're the defensive stats instead. So the question, when giving them a battalion, is: would this be better than the "ghost battalion" they have by default?

Edited September 26, 2022 by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Removed redundancies.

[Dark Holy Elf]

 

47 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I like to think of Felix as having, by default, an infinite-endurance battalion that grants +5 to each attacking stat, yet offers no gambit. Likewise for Catherine, except that they're the defensive stats instead. So the question, when giving them a battalion, is: would this be better than the "ghost battalion" they have by default?

It's probably worth mentioning that this "ghost battalion" is slightly worse than this, because if you "equip" it, you don't gain any authority exp. I think it's worse than most filler E-rank battalions like Seiros Mercs myself... Seiros Mercs Felix trades 2 atk for 10 hit and 2 prot, which I'd already consider pretty lateral, but when you consider that the battalion allows him to level up authority (albeit slowly) and that even a bad gambit off low charm is better than none at all, and I find myself favouring the real battalion as soon as I can afford them for everyone. At the latest, Chapter 5 (due to its length and its 0-charm monster boss) should be time to equip a real battalion, in my books. Conveniently, the aux fights in this chapter which precede the real battle are a great opportunity to level up a new battalion, if needed.

The exception is if you make one of them a flier and you have one more flier than you have flying battalions. Then the ghost battalion is a pretty sweet deal. This comes up more for Catherine (due to Pegasus Knight) than Felix in my experience, though could conceivably come up for either.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

It's probably worth mentioning that this "ghost battalion" is slightly worse than this, because if you "equip" it, you don't gain any authority exp. I think it's worse than most filler E-rank battalions like Seiros Mercs myself... Seiros Mercs Felix trades 2 atk for 10 hit and 2 prot, which I'd already consider pretty lateral, but when you consider that the battalion allows him to level up authority (albeit slowly) and that even a bad gambit off low charm is better than none at all, and I find myself favouring the real battalion as soon as I can afford them for everyone. At the latest, Chapter 5 (due to its length and its 0-charm monster boss) should be time to equip a real battalion, in my books. Conveniently, the aux fights in this chapter which precede the real battle are a great opportunity to level up a new battalion, if needed.

Ah, true enough - not getting any Authority EXP is a letdown. I do think that sticking with the ghost battalion is preferable if you're running a magical or hybrid Felix (not that you should, TBH), since there are very few hybrid battalions early on. The first available battalion that's strictly better than ghost battalion, if you're using NSO, is the Essar Research Group. Felix suffers no loss to offense on either side, and he gains a juicy +30 Hit, alongside the Blessing gambit. It's great on anyone, but especially inviting on him.

2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

The exception is if you make one of them a flier and you have one more flier than you have flying battalions. Then the ghost battalion is a pretty sweet deal. This comes up more for Catherine (due to Pegasus Knight) than Felix in my experience, though could conceivably come up for either.

And now I'm imagining Johnny Cash serenading Pegasus Knight Catherine with "Ghost Riders in the Sky".

4 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

You can actually buy the Holy Knights of Seiros after the time skip. And if you did do that Paralogue with Alois recruited, this allows you to own two copies of it. The same is true of the Macuil Repelling Co (Hanneman) and Indech Sword Fighters (Manuela). Non-recruited Manuela can basically rescue herself in her own paralogue, making the map far easier to complete. The biggest drawback to this decision is that you miss out on having two copies of Indech Sword Fighters for the late game. But I think most players can live with that. You also miss out on having that batallion before the time skip, but good luck having a unit that can equip an A rank so early on.

Side note, but none of these battalions can be purchased on CF. However, as they can be acquired via pre-skip paralogues, they are technically available to CF players. None of the "Church" battalions that start to be sold after the timeskip are totally new.

[lenticular]

23 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

My impulse is to have as many characters as possible. I agree with you that no recruit/paralogue reward is indispensable, but I struggle to let an obtainable reward pass me by, no matter how many times I play - it's the major reason I burn out on games in general. It also leads me to some odd play choices, like delaying the Shamir paralogue to Ch. 11, when it poses little challenge even on Maddening, just so I can field Alois as a blue unit and get Holy Knights of Seiros. Spoiler alert for this thread, but Holy Knights of Seiros is not worth throwing away all that exp. Anyway, I have the feeling that your policy is far closer to the SF consensus than mine.

Yeah, I've given a little bit of thought to that battalion as well and I'm not sure how I'm going to rate it. Because it is probably not worth the opportunity cost of delaying the paralogue until chapter 11, meaning you get the other rewards and the battle xp later, and potentially also need to devote an extra week to fighting in chapter 11 that you otherwise wouldn't. So, there are three potential appraoches to grading it: just say that you get it in chapter 11 and ignore the opportunity cost, say that you get it in chapter 11 but count the opportunity cost against it, or say that you get it in part 2, sicne that version is in some ways better than the chapter 11 version. Truly, the great quandry of our age.

22 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I think it's fine to grade them based on your own experience and playstyle! For my part, I only treat a battalion as totally unique if, on at least one route, it's impossible to get a battalion with a similar trait of value. So while it's hypothetically possible to have a playthrough where Seiros Holy Monks are your only source of Stride, the player can make choices to render it non-exclusive.

For me, I think it's a combination of two things. One is to try to imagine the battalions in their best possible circumstances. Or at least, the best circumstances that will come up reasonably often. I don't want to bend over backwards to devise elaborate hypotheticals where some battalion might be good, but I think "didn't recruit Sylvain or Anna" is a situation that comes up often enough to be a worthy consideration. But beyond that, I also think that it's relevant that doing other paralogues simply take time. The in-game cost of a single battle point one week is negligible, but Three Houses is a long game, and sometimes I want to play it without having it take longer than it has to, in which case I don't want to be doing extra paralogues just for item rewards.

And yeah, I do realise that there is an irony to a woman who voluntarily spends her free time arguing on the Internet about the relative merits of different battalions then turning around and saying that saving time is more important than micro-optimisation, and yet here we are.

21 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

It's probably worth mentioning that this "ghost battalion" is slightly worse than this, because if you "equip" it, you don't gain any authority exp. I think it's worse than most filler E-rank battalions like Seiros Mercs myself... Seiros Mercs Felix trades 2 atk for 10 hit and 2 prot, which I'd already consider pretty lateral, but when you consider that the battalion allows him to level up authority (albeit slowly) and that even a bad gambit off low charm is better than none at all, and I find myself favouring the real battalion as soon as I can afford them for everyone. At the latest, Chapter 5 (due to its length and its 0-charm monster boss) should be time to equip a real battalion, in my books. Conveniently, the aux fights in this chapter which precede the real battle are a great opportunity to level up a new battalion, if needed.

Yeah, I also generally end up giving him a proper battalion as soon as I have enough to spread around (though he's the last to get one). The point I was trying to make wasn't so much that it's good to keep him battalionless long term; it's that the benefit that he gets from a battalion is much smaller than it can initially seem like it should be, and smaller than the benefit that other units get. It's still an overall upgrade for him, but not a particularly big one.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Alright, everyone, thanks for the grades! So, how did the Chumps from the Church of Seiros do ratings-wise? Let's take a look:

Spoiler

Seiros Holy Monks averaged 8.357, based on 7 grades;

Seiros Sacred Monks averaged 3.057, based on 7 grades;

Seiros Magic Corps averaged 5.5, based on 7 grades;

Seiros Pegasus Co. averaged 6.971, based on 7 grades; and

Knights of Seiros averaged 6.271, based on 7 grades.

Certainly looks like a mixed bunch! Not all Monks are created equal, while the fliers and cavalry certainly have their appreciators. In any case, on to the next round!

Round 3: Ensigns from the Empire

This round, we'll be discussing those earlygame battalions associated with the Adrestian Empire. These battalions can be purchased from the Battalion Guild starting in chapter 3 - but only if you elect to lead the Black Eagles. They are as follows:

Empire Infantry

Spoiler

Accessibility: E-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (BE only), hire at Battalion Guild for 1000 Gold

Gambit: Lure

Endurance: 30

Phys: 0

Mag: -2

Hit: +5 / +10

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: +1 / +3

Rsl: 0

Cha: +1

Empire Warriors

Spoiler

Accessibility: E-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1000 Gold

Gambit: Random Shot

Endurance: 30

Phys: +2 / +4

Mag: -2

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: 0

Rsl: 0

Cha: +1

Empire Brawlers

Spoiler

Accessibility: E-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold

Gambit: Disturbance

Endurance: 30

Phys: +2 / +4

Mag: -2

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: +5 / +10

Prt: 0

Rsl: -1

Cha: +1

Empire Magic Corps

Spoiler

Accessibility: D-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold

Gambit: Group Flames

Endurance: 30

Phys: -2

Mag: +2 / +4

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: 0

Rsl: +2 / +4

Cha: +3

Empire Archers

Spoiler

Accessibility: D-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold

Gambit: Fusillade

Endurance: 30

Phys: +1 / +3

Mag: -2

Hit: +10 / +15

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: +1 / +3

Rsl: 0

Cha: +3

Empire Knights

Spoiler

Accessibility: C-rank Cavalry

Availability: From chapter 3 (BE only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold

Gambit: Blaze

Endurance: 60

Phys: +3 / +5

Mag: -2

Hit: 0 / +5

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: +2 / +4

Rsl: 0

Cha: +5

Next, I'm going to include my own thought and grades. I'm spoiler-tagging them as well, to avoid any opinion cross-contamination:

Spoiler

Availability: This is an easy one. These are all available as soon as chapter 3. They all get 5 points.

Accessibility: This one varies a bit. Empire Infantry, Warriors, and Brawlers are all E-rank Infantry, so 5 points each. Empire Magic Corps and Archers are D-rank Infantry, for 4 points each. Finally, Empire Knights, as C-rank Cavalry, get 3 points here.

Gambit: Empire Infantry gives you Lure, which I graded "3". Empire Warriors give you Random Shot, which I awarded "2". Empire Brawlers offer the Disturbance gambit, for 3 points. Empire Magic Corps, with Group Flames, garner a "4". Empire Archers shoot for the sky with Fusillade, and land on "7". Finally, Empire Knights are another source of Blaze, for 5 points.

Stats:

The Empire Infantry grant 10 Hit and 3 Prt, at the cost of 2 Magical Attack. That renders it unsuitable for Mages, and while the Hit is nice, offering no bonus to Physical Attack means it's hardly suitable for physical attackers, either. This one gets 2 points.

Empire Warriors don't provide any Hit or Protection, and they inflict a similar reduction to Magic... but hey, they grant 4 Physical Attack. That's quite solid for an E-rank battalion, although Hit rates may suffer. It's 3 points this time around.

Empire Brawlers offer very similar boosts, but add an extra 10 Avoid on top this time. The catch? A loss of 1 Resilience. Honestly, a worthy trade in my book. This squad makes it up to 4 points for me.

Empire Magic Corps, to no one's surprise, grant a solid 4-point boost to Magical Attack, surpassing their Church counterparts. They also grant 4 Resilience and 3 Charm... at a cost to 2 Physical Attack, but that rarely matters for pure Mages. I'd say this is worth 4 points.

Empire Archers grant the highest Hit boost we've seen yet, at 15. Pair this with 3 each in Physical Attack, Protection, and Charm, with only a -2 to Magical Attack? We're in business. This deserves a solid 5 points.

Finally, Empire Knights. They grant a big boost in their own right, with +5 Physical Attack at max level. Also +5 each in Hit and Charm, plus +4 Protection, with just a cost of -2 Magic. It's in the same ballpark as Knights of Seiros, so I think a score of 5 is appropriate.

Uniqueness:

Empire Infantry are your first source of the Lure gambit, so they get 2 points. Shame they weren't called "Imperial Infantry", though...

Meanwhile, Empire Warriors are your only source of the Random Shot gambit, on any route - as a truly unique battalion, they earn 3 points here.

Empire Brawlers offer no unique gambit or stat boosts, so they get a 0.

Empire Magic Corps may be one of two sources of Group Flames at joining, but they give a higher magic boost, so that's good for 1 point.

Empire Archers are your only source of Fusillade this early on, so they get 2 points.

And Empire Knights, while not your only Blaze battalion, give a uniquely large boost to Physical Attack, netting them 1 point.

Convenience: They can all be hired at the Battalion Guild. Money may be tight in chapter 3, but you still have them as an option. 2 points across the board.

Endurance: Kingdom Knights have 60 durability, which is good for 1 point. All the others have a meager 30 durability, for 0 points apiece.

Experience: Truthfully, I can't say much for any of these. I definitely used Empire Warriors for their "exclusive" gambit, while I probably employed Empire Archers for Fusillade. It's been so long since I played CF, and I hardly remember. They each get 1 point, and the others get 0 points. Maybe they're good, but they're so unmemorable to me.

Scores:

Empire Infantry: 5 + 5 + (3 * 2) + 2 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 0 = 22 -> 4.4

Empire Warriors: 5 + 5 + 2 + (3 * 2) + 3 + 2 + 0 + 1 = 24 -> 4.8

Empire Brawlers: 5 + 5 + 3 + (4 * 2) + 0 + 2 + 0 + 0 = 23 -> 4.6

Empire Magic Corps: 5 + 4 + (4 * 2) + 4 + 1 + 2 + 0 + 0 = 24 -> 4.8

Empire Archers: 5 + 4 + (7 * 2) + 5 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 1 = 33 -> 6.6

Empire Knights: 5 + 3 + (5 * 2) + 5 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 27 -> 5.4

Thanks for reading and participating! I'm really looking forward to reading your thoughts on these battalions.

[LoneRecon400]

Empire Infantry: 2/10. Bad filler E rank battalion that no one should use.

Empire Warriors: 5/10. Brawlers without any of the avoid. Some people may take off points for that, but I won't. Random shot is also pretty unique, but not very useful.

Empire Brawlers: 5/10. A nice early +4 might battalion. It's certainly not going to win any awards, but it does the job just fine until something better roles around.

Empire Magic Corp: 5/10. Filler Magic Battalion that you use until you get something better. Gives +1 higher magic than Seiros, but I don't think it's worth putting it over since mages don't have strong earlygames.

Empire Archers: 8/10. About the only battalion worth discussing in this batch, i'd say, and I'd also say it's the best starting battalion period.  It gives all the bonuses that are most valuable in the early game, and Fusillade is a really nice gambit when combined with Rally Charm. Using it on Ferdinand in combination with the +charm bracelet will allow him to get 95 gambit hit on most enemies by Chapter 3, which is really nice.   

Empire Knights: 6.5/10. Fulfills the same purpose as Seiros Knights. Gives blaze and +5 charm to people with authority boon earlygame and then falls off. +1 Atk and Prt gives it a minor edge over Seiros. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by LoneRecon400

[Dark Holy Elf]

Empire Infantry: 2 stats, 3 gambit. E rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Filler trash. Almost completely outclassed by both Seiros Mercs and CoS Soldiers, both of which you level up for free and can buy more of if you really want. The degree to which it's outclassed by even other mediocre E rank battalions means it gets my first negative adjustment.

In a vacuum: 2.5. Adjusted: 2/10

Empire Warriors: 3 stats, 2 gambit. E rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Is 4 atk at E rank enough of a niche to excuse absolutely terrible everything else? ... not really, not when Empire Brawlers also exist, but using both isn't completely crazy.

In a vacuum: 3. Adjusted: 4/10

Empire Brawlers: 4 stats, 4 gambit. E rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Empire Warriors with +10 avoid, -1 res, and a respectable gambit instead of an awful one. Pretty clearly superior. Equal to Seiros Mercs seems fair.

In a vacuum: 4.5. Adjusted: 6/10

Empire Magic Corps: 4 stats, 5 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 3.

The most important difference between this and Seiros Magic Corps is I don't worry that Hubert might shank me for giving it to him. (Its stats are also very marginally better.) Same score works. Group Flames and a magic boost go a long way to making your non-Linhardt mages more effective.

In a vacuum: 5. Adjusted: 6.5/10.

Empire Archers: 5 stats, 7 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Randomly really good? The worst failing of earlygame Edelgard/Byleth is their lack of range, giving them a 3-range stun is amazing. On top of that it has good stats, "only" 3 atk is the worst criticism I have. The Eagles have a leg-up on the Lions and Deer for early battalions for sure (this won't last).

In a vacuum: 6.5. Adjusted: 8/10.

Empire Knights: 6 stats, 6 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Slightly better Seiros Knights, but I'm inclined to give it the same score because its competition is stiffer. (Seiros Knights on Lions/Deer runs don't compete with this OR Empire Archers.)

In a vacuum: 6.5. Adjusted: 7/10.

[lenticular]

We're in something of an interesting place here, because for the chapter 3 house-specific battalions, we know exactly which battalions are available and have a good idea of what units are available as well. Maybe we've added Wolves and maybe Sylvain, but probably nobody else. This means we have a pretty good idea of what sort of battalions we're going to be wanting. Yes, there are different possible builds that might want different battalions. And yes, we might not be fielding a full team. But by and large, Chapter 3 Black Eagles is going to look pretty similar from game to game. Linhardt, Dorothea and Hubert are likely all prefering battalions that boost magic attack. Petra and Edelgard are probably both looking to spend some time in Pegasus Knight before all that long. Caspar is probably lagging behind in Authority. That sort of thing.

So what's on our shopping list? Well, ideally we want to get up to 10 battalions (enough for all deployed characters to have one) as quickly as we can, though we might have difficulty affording this before more battalions start trickling in from Chapter 5. We already have three battalions from Chapter 2, which roughly means that we're only interested in getting at most 7 of the battalions that come available at Chapter 3, and if we aren't getting them immediately then we are never getting them. I think I would want to grab the Seiros Holy Monks, Seiros Magic Corps, Seiros Pegasus Co, Empire Magics Corps, Empire Archers, Empire Knights, and maybe Empire Brawlers or a second set of Seiros Mercenaries. Ideally, I'd love to take all of the E rank battalions to make sure everyone had something immediately, but that's typically not going to be practical. So that's the overview, let's look at these individually.

Empire Infantry: 1.5/10. Pretty awful, with very little to recommend using them. It is, however, just about possible to imagine a circumstance where these might just barely be usable. Maybe you have everyone stuck at E Authority and have enough money to buy every Battalion on offer, somehow? Maybe you're doing a LTC and the Lure gambit somehow allows for a faster completion of a chapter? I'm not really believing it, but it's at least conceivable, which keeps this from the lowest of low scores. Still, I think this is worse than Seiros Sacred Monks and I gave that a 2.

Empire Warriors: 4/10. I'm not using them, which means a score below 5 on my grading system, but they're fairly close to being usable, so they aren't much below 5. 4 points of physical attack is decent at this stage, but this just comes up short compared to the Empire Brawlers and the Seiros Mercenaries, and I will very rarely want all of them. Having a unique gambit seems like it should be a positive point, except that it's a unique bad gambit. Which is less positive.

Empire Brawlers: 5/10. Comparing these with the Seiros Mercenaries, these have +1 attack, -10 hit, +10 avoid, -2 prot, -1 res, and a somewhat better gambit. And they become available 1 chapter later, and cost money instead of being free. I'd say they're pretty clearly worse than the Mercs. But still, they're right on the verge of "maybe I'll use them, maybe I won't", which is a definite 5/10 in my ratings.

Empire Magic Corps: 6.5/10. Very similar to the Seiros Magic Corps. And on the one hand, this has the Seiros Magic Crops as competition, but on the other hand, it comes on a route where you have an above average number of magic users. So the same overall score seems appropriate.

Empire Archers: 8/10. Fusilade is a great gambit, so getting it so early, you'd expect maybe some dodgy stats here. Except you actually get +3 attack, +15 hit, +3 prot, and +3 charm? That's outstanding for a D rank battalion. It feels like there should be a catch, but there isn't. This has a good chance of seeing use from the moment you buy it up until the point when your last straggler finally manages to reach C in Authority, which is a good long stretch of game.

Empire Knights: 6.5/10. Sufficiently similar to the Knights of Seiros to get the same score as them. Slightly better, but I agree with @Dark Holy Elf about stiffer competition cancelling out that slight advantage.

[haarhaarhaar]

Empire Infantry - 1.25/10 

Wouldn't buy, except when I did because I though obtaining every battalion might mean something. The 1.25 is me looking ahead to some of the dross battalions I know are coming, and going "Oh yeah, it's not as bad as those ones... but it's close". 

Empire Warriors - 4/10

I have to spend money on it, but I probably would use this over Church of Seiros because I value the offensive boost more. I think that balances it out to the same score for both. Gambit sucks though.

Empire Brawlers - 5/10

More geared towards offense than Seiros Mercs, but less balanced. And they cost money. Same score for both seems fine to me.

Empire Magic Corps - 5.6/10

Just a tiny bit higher than Seiros Magic Corps for the extra mag attack. It's not very likely to matter, but I often rush Frozen Lance on Hubert, and every little helps with that build.

Empire Archers - 6.9/10

Most physical fighters want this until C-rank, for Fusillade if nothing else. Shorter overall lifespan than Jeralt's Mercs puts it slightly beneath in my opinion - but who knew I'd spend so much time in the weeds of decimal points with these rankings.

Empire Knights - 6.6/10

Slight lean on Str/Def compared to its counterparts, but it's only available on two routes. I think that's enough to keep it at the same score as Knights of Seiros. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Empire Infantry: 1.5 out of 10. Has 10 hit like Seiros Mercenaries, but the same -2 penalty to magic. It's not like Mages have Curved Shot to solve their hit problems. Lure isn't particularly good with its 4MT and 50 hit. The most exotic thing I imagine trying with it is getting Lonato off his heal tile, but I don't think Lonato is that threatening to begin with, especially if you've baited him into switching to his Javelin. I do appreciate the +3 defense, but the Black Eagles really lack a bulky unit that warrants investment in their defense. And if you are trying to tank you've already got the Church of Seiros Soldiers or Seiros Mercenaries leveled up for the job.

Empire Warriors: 2.5 out of 10. Hard for Caspar or any of the physical units of Black Eagles to prefer this over Empire Brawlers. The gambit having 20 less hit than Disturbance is also a very bad trade for it having 4 more damage and potentially hitting a third enemy. It's theoretically fine as filler, but I'm doubtful somebody would be left with this as a choice even when committing to using every student in the Black Eagles.

Empire Brawlers: 4.0 out of 10. Once Caspar's got Str+2, Death Blow, and bombard, he should be pulling ORKOs in the mid game, but boosting his Attack to ORKO range in early game is made feasible via Hubert's Mire spell as well. Even in my SS run where Hubert is eventually forced out of the party, he still contributed as a level 1 Mire user. And I suppose I'll admit a 60 Hit Gambit with two uses is probably more valuable in chapters 3-5 when your support level is only C. Often times the most feasible way to survive is locking down the most threatening enemy rather than outright killing them, and this batallion is good for either approach. Jeralts Mercs is better at both approaches, but for this House I'd sooner give that to a Mini Bow+ Bernadetta so that she can occasionally pull some crits. I think the Kingdom and Alliance Brawlers I'd rate a 4.5 or 5 simply because I think it synergizes better with those unit rosters and their associated builds. Kingdom Brawlers with Dedue's One Two Punch and Str+2 for instance is an outrageous +24 damage. In fact my Dedue was securing chapter 3 ORKOs on One Two Punch alone - didn't even have time to work on the Fighter Class or this Batallion.

Empire Magic Corps:  2.0 out of 10. Since the Black Eagles uniquely have Fusilade access in chapters 3-5, Group Flames isn't as notable as in the other two routes. Being slightly more accurate isn't a good trade for 1 less range and only having one use instead of two. And I'd prefer the Seiros batallion anyway. +5 hit is more valuable than another point of damage, especially when you're stuck with Miasma or Thunder until level 10. On Maddening, Mages have a much better source of experience in Healing every ouchie rather than killing, so with that in mind I'm typically only having them chip damage enemies so that the physical units can get the full kill experience. That's why I'm more than content leaving them with Stride or even Resonant White Magic. Having another support option with even more hit chance is just a better deal than raw damage. I think the strongest case to be made for this batallion is that the Black Eagles have three mages and you might consider a second Seiros Magic Corps, but we're still talking about a D rank authority choice that's digging into your wallet when you're at your most poor. I don't think I'd find room to use this.

Empire Archers: 8.0 out of 10. Fusilade so early on is huge. Definitely the earliest gambit you get that's got an edge over Assault Troop, since it can lock down as many as five enemies, and fires at the ludicrous curved shot range. I think an underrated user of this one is Hubert, despite the Mag penalty. 15 hit is so so valuable for his inaccurate spells whether he's getting benched or not, and his personal skill ramps up the damage potential of such an awesome gambit too. Once Hubert has Frozen Lance and Fire from being in the mage class, he can fuss less over his hit rates. My only critique of this batallion is its 30 endurance. Very iffy on a frontliner unit. And if it disappears before you use both charges of fusilade, then that's a notable set back - I would absolutely consider a divine pulse to rewrite that even if none of my units were killed. The Seiros Archers version has 10 avoid in place of 3 defense and another point of attack. But really this batallion gets rated higher purely for its availability. The fact that its stats are notably better than E rank filler is just a bonus.

Empire Knights: 5.5 out of 10. Like every House-specific version of the Knights of Seiros It's statistically better (by favoring the more relavent Prt over Res), so I'll rate it statistically better as well. But otherwise it's the same tool. Buy it once Byleth and/or Edelgard reach C authority and it'll boost their power, then serve as a filler choice for that mid game where most of your roster have C authority. Well worth the money.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[SnowFire]

Empire Infantry: 2/10. Very bad filler.  Worse than Seiros Sacred Monks as noted which at least faces less competition among mage battalions.  Per Zapp, maybe if you're playing a hack where Lonato has double his normal stats, you'd be sufficiently desperate for Lure for this to be interesting, but that's the only case I can think of of a non-moving boss on a heal tile in C3-6.  Avoids a 1 only because it it's not actively counterproductive if you buy it and equip it, unlike the true scrubs.

Empire Warriors: 4/10. Filler with a bad gambit.  

Empire Brawlers: 6/10. Solid filler with a good gambit.

Empire Magic Corps: 6/10. Filler magic battalion, another copy of Seiros Magic Corps.  Same score works, it's usable.

Empire Archers: 8/10. Solid stats, solid gambit, usable for a long period.  Ranking a pure combat battalion so high (when by default I'd want the really busted stuff at 8+ like Stride, Impregnable Wall, the Lord Gambits) makes me highly tempted to go 7 rather than 8, but I feel that would just be being mildly contrarian.  Sometimes, just all the right stats is enough, so sure, I'm sold on 8.

Empire Knights: 6/10. Another copy of Knights of Seiros, although to the team most likely to have a 3 Mage / 5 Fighter split, so mildly less important + stiff competition as already noted.

[Dark Holy Elf]

4 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Once Caspar's got Str+2, Death Blow, and bombard, he should be pulling ORKOs in the mid game, but boosting his Attack to ORKO range in early game is made feasible via Hubert's Mire spell as well.

To be fair, literally any melee physical unit should kill a typical enemy after Mire. Base Ferdinand (lowest str of the physical units in the Eagles) with Steel Lance Tempest Lance kills any enemy as late as Chapter 6 by comboing after a base Hubert's Mire, provided they have a total of at least 4 points of atk from battalions, levelups, class modifiers, or class masteries (absolutely trivial; if you have multiple of these, Iron Lance suffices instead... as they do in the earlier maps where enemy stats are lower). So the choice of battalion isn't especially important to this strategy, provided you're getting at least some atk. (Also worth noting that Dorothea's range-3 chipping has only barely different results, since Thoron's higher partly power offsets its lack of defence debuff.)

4 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

On Maddening, Mages have a much better source of experience in Healing every ouchie rather than killing, so with that in mind I'm typically only having them chip damage enemies so that the physical units can get the full kill experience. That's why I'm more than content leaving them with Stride or even Resonant White Magic.

Having 3-4 more damage in your chip definitely opens up the list of ways you can kill... in particular, it often lets the second person kill with something more accurate (iron instead of steel, high-hit CAs instead of high-power, etc.), and/or with a ranged attack. So I think raising Atk instead of Hit is often worthwhile even for chipping. Even no-battalion, no-links-in-range Hubert/Dorothea have ~80 hit against most enemies (i.e. 92% real), and a missed chip attempt (already rare) can typically be mitigated because it doesn't get countered. Linhardt, of course, gets almost nothing out of hit boosts. (Although I usually give him Stride anyway because he can't hit with offensive gambits worth a damn.)

I would argue the +magic battalions are better because while we could quibble which is better for chipping, the difference in one-rounding armour knights is clear. Chapter 5 armours require 20 atk to one-round. Your mages will reach that with +mag battalions (Dorothea gets there with a mere +1 magic, Hubert's there at base, Linhardt admittedly needs a bit more work at 4), but may well fall short with the Monk battalions unless they use their heavier spells (which may not double). Chapter 6 armours require 23 atk, resulting in a similar situation.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

16 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I would argue the +magic battalions are better because while we could quibble which is better for chipping, the difference in one-rounding armour knights is clear. Chapter 5 armours require 20 atk to one-round. Your mages will reach that with +mag battalions (Dorothea gets there with a mere +1 magic, Hubert's there at base, Linhardt admittedly needs a bit more work at 4), but may well fall short with the Monk battalions unless they use their heavier spells (which may not double). Chapter 6 armours require 23 atk, resulting in a similar situation.

If Linhardt's two shots of Wind is a few points of damage shy of killing the armor knights, then I see that as a net positive. Here you go, Bernadetta, Ferdinand, Caspar, etc. More experience for the unit that needs it more. The unit that isn't packing the Heal spell for free level ups. Linhardt gets his skill experience for participating too. And if Caspar levels up his HP off of this play that's even MORE experience for Linhardt. 

An ORKO is less experience overall. It may free up a turn for the second attacker, but a left alive armor knight is rarely a panic worthy scenario compared to the poison strike archers and Pass-boasting thieves of chapter 5. Enemies that can move and attack farther, don't randomly miss from using a steel axe, and typically put out more damage. You are correct in identifying that armor knights are pretty much the only Maddening enemy that every mage can consistently one round, and that we should think about ensuring this combat benchmark is possible for the turns where that may be an optimal choice. But they're not that threatening to leave alive unless they have a gambit. Heck, they're the only enemy type that my mages can outrun if the situation truly called for it. A scenario where my mage is alone, standing two or more spaces away from this armor knight, all other nearby units have more pressing things to do with their turn than body blocking for the mage, the mage can't ORKO without a crit, and the armor can one shot them with a displayed 70 hit. I guess I'll just retreat and deal with him on the next turn. Even an LTC-er would be thinking "Armor knights can't catch up to me so I'll just...not deal with him if I don't have to"

Edited October 1, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

If Linhardt's two shots of Wind is a few points of damage shy of killing the armor knights, then I see that as a net positive. Here you go, Bernadetta, Ferdinand, Caspar, etc. More experience for the unit that needs it more. The unit that isn't packing the Heal spell for free level ups. Linhardt gets his skill experience for participating too. And if Caspar levels up his HP off of this play that's even MORE experience for Linhardt. 

Potential counter-point: Monk is a bigger upgrade for the Noble/Commoner class than any other Beginner class. The Beginner classes have low bases that rarely matter (unless you're doing something really weird, like training Linhardt in Axes or Petra in Reason), and otherwise, each class only provides a +1 modifier to a single stat. So the question is, what other difference is there? Well, Monk increases your unit's spell count, from half to full. The Linhardt who could previously only use 5 Heals per map, now gets 10. Your magic users become massively more useful upon hitting Monk. Conversely, the other classes (Fighter, Soldier, Myrmidon) can all be considered a downgrade in this regard, as they eliminate any spell access whatsoever. Of course, units who go into any of these classes probably don't care about spell access, but it can be a meaningful trade-off for intended "hybrid" builds. Anyway, while physical units appreciate the slight upgrade - and the chance to work toward valuable mastery skills - it's definitely not as substantial a boost to them.

[Dark Holy Elf]

13 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

If Linhardt's two shots of Wind is a few points of damage shy of killing the armor knights, then I see that as a net positive

Interesting take. Although I'll note that if you actually want your mage to not kill an armour knight for another unit's benefit, then you can always deliberately weigh them down (use a heavier spell, or heck even equip a shield).

However, sometimes, the turn saved via a kill is valuable. I would argue this is self-evident; broadly speaking if you lose a unit in this game (the condition we're trying to avoid), it's because two or more enemies attack one of your units on the same turn and combine for a kill (nothing except bosses one-rounds your units at this stage). Any mobile enemy is capable of being one of those "two or more", so the more easily you can remove enemies, the better. Yes, you could use Hubert + Ferdinand to kill that armour, and if there are no other enemies nearby you can even set up for it if you want, but if that's not the case, it's better to have Hubert one-round the armour, and free up Ferdinand to help out with killing another enemy, allowing the rest of your team to use more accurate attacks, or offset a miss somewhere, or just plain kill more enemies that turn if you're faced with a lot at once.

23 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Potential counter-point: Monk is a bigger upgrade for the Noble/Commoner class than any other Beginner class

I agree with this, but to be fair, I was talking about armour knights in Chapter 5 and 6. If you still have a Noble/Commoner then, you're probably doing a challenge run (or the character is obvious bench-bait and is probably using Stride so that other units can hold something with better stats).

Valid to bring up for Chapter 3, though. I definitely agree that you do want all your magic-users to promote by the end of that, since they do see a much bigger upgrade. I've sometimes been able to get my entire team to Level 5 by the end of that chapter, but not always... and if anyone doesn't, better that it's a physical unit.

Another interesting ripple that may incentivize getting mages a few more kills than Zapp does is that they tend to master Monk before other units master their Beginner class (because of healing actions). Assuming you don't actually want to move on from your Beginner class until mastering it, that means it's useful to make sure that the units who master them faster also hit Level 10 at a time to match. I find my mages always have Monk mastered by the end of Chapter 5, but for other units it depends on how much combat they see and what map they got to Beginner tier on.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Well, it's time again for another round of grades. But first - the results show!

Spoiler

Empire Infantry received 7 grades, averaging out to 2.093;

Empire Warriors received 7 grades, averaging out to 4.043;

Empire Brawlers received 7 grades, averaging out to 5.086;

Empire Magic Corps received 7 grades, averaging out to 5.2;

Empire Archers received 7 grades, averaging out to 7.643; and

Empire Knights received 7 grades, averaging out to 6.214.

So, that's what we've got! It looks like Empire Archers hit the mark for a lot of players. Meanwhile, the Empire Infantry barely seem to have outgrown their infancy. How will their counterparts from the Kingdom fare?

Round 4: Cadets from the Kingdom

This week, we'll only be looking at five battalions. These battalions all become available starting in Chapter 3, if the player chooses to teach the Blue Lions. They can all be hired from the Battalion Guild, alongside Church of Seiros battalions. Their information is as follows:

Kingdom Infantry

Spoiler

Accessibility: E-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1000 Gold

Gambit: Lure

Endurance: 30

Phys: +1 / +3

Mag: -2

Hit: 0 / +5

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: +1 / +3

Rsl: 0

Cha: +1

Kingdom Lance Co.

Spoiler

Accessibility: E-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold

Gambit: Group Lance Attack

Endurance: 30

Phys: +1 / +3

Mag: -2

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: +5 / +10

Prt: 0

Rsl: 0

Cha: +1

Kingdom Brawlers

Spoiler

Accessibility: E-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold

Gambit: Disturbance

Endurance: 30

Phys: +2 / +4

Mag: -2

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: +5 / +10

Prt: 0

Rsl: -1

Cha: +1

Kingdom Magic Corps

Spoiler

Accessibility: D-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold

Gambit: Group Ice

Endurance: 30

Phys: -2

Mag: +1 / +3

Hit: 0 / +5

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: +1

Rsl: +2 / +4

Cha: +3

Kingdom Knights

Spoiler

Accessibility: C-rank Cavalry

Availability: From chapter 3 (AM only), hire at the Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold

Gambit: Assault Troop

Endurance: 60

Phys: +3 / +5

Mag: -2

Hit: 0 / +5

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: +2 / +4

Rsl: +1

Cha: +5

I'll be providing my own grades and assessments for each of them below. Spoiler-tagged, as usual.

Spoiler

Availability: 5 across the board.

Accessibility: The E-rank infantry (Kingdom Infantry, Kingdom Lance Co., and Kingdom Brawlers) each get 5. The D-rank infantry (Kingdom Magic Corps) get 4. And the C-rank Cavalry (Kingdom Knights) get 3.

Gambit: Even though they all offer different gambits, there's surprising commonality here. Back in "Let's Grade Some Gambits", I gave Lure, Group Lance Attack, Disturbance, and Group Ice a 3 each. So Kingdom Knights, with Assault Troop, is the only one to get a 5.

Stats:

At first blush, Kingdom Infantry may appear to be a counterpart to Empire Infantry, or Church of Seiros Soldiers. But unlike those battalions, this one gives a Physical Attack boost - as high as +3. Coupled with +5 Hit and +3 Prt (at a cost of -2 Magical Attack), it's pretty solid for an earlygame battalion. That's worth a 3.

Relative to the Infantry, the Kingdom Lance Co. are missing the Hit and Prt boost, but compensate with +10 Avoid. It's a fair enough trade, so they get 3 as well.

The Kingdom Brawlers also get the Avoid boost - and an extra point of might, for +4 Physical Attack total. However, it comes at a loss to 1 Resilience. With stat boosts literally identical to their Imperial counterpart, they get a 4.

Kingdom Magic Corps switch gears, naturally being a magical battalion. They offer up to +3 magical attack, +5 Hit, +1 Prt, and +4 Rsl... at a cost of -2 physical attack. That's very close to Seiros Magic Corps, but trading 1 Rsl for 1 Prt. That's usually a good trade, so I'd say they deserve a 4 here.

Kingdom Knights award +5 physical attack, +5 Hit, +4 Prt, and +1 Rsl, but with a malus of -2 magical attack. That's strictly 1 Rsl better than Empire Knights, and provides the biggest physical attack boost of any battalion available early in Blue Lions runs. It's a solid enough set to earn a 5.

Uniqueness:

Kingdom Infantry are the first AM battalion to grant Lure, so they get a 2.

Likewise, Kingdom Lance Co. are the first AM battalion that gives the player Group Lance Attack, so they get 2 as well.

Kingdom Brawlers use Disturbance, which is hardly unique. That said, they do grant the largest physical attack boost among E/D-rank battalions this early in the game. That's good for 1 point.

Kingdom Magic Corps are, astonishingly, the only source of the Group Ice gambit that is available to the player. That's enough to earn it 3 in uniqueness.

Kingdom Knights grant Assault Troop, which is already available via Jeralt's Mercenaries. Still, it gives the highest physical attack boost (and Prt boost, by the by) of any battalion available by chapter 3. That's worth 1 point.

Convenience: It's easy enough to go to the Battalion Guild and buy any one of these battalions. You probably can't afford them all out the gate (especially when the Church of Seiros battalions are competing as well), but the option to hire any of them is there. That gets them all 2 points.

Endurance: The first four of these have a meager 30 endurance, so they get 0 points in this regard. Kingdom Knights, however, bump up to 60 endurance, so they get 1 point.

Experience: Again, I don't remember much of any of these battalions. I'm sure I got Kingdom Magic Corps to give to Annette, and hiring the Kingdom Knights for extra Assault Troop sounds like something I would do. They get 1 point apiece. The others get 0 each.

Final Scores:

Kingdom Infantry: 5 + 5 + (3 * 2) + 3 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 0 = 23 -> 4.6

Kingdom Lance Co.: 5 + 5 + (3 * 2) + 3 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 0 = 23 -> 4.6

Kingdom Brawlers: 5 + 5 + 3 + (4 * 2) + 1 + 2 + 0 + 0 = 24 -> 4.8

Kingdom Magic Corps: 5 + 4 + 3 + (4 * 2) + 3 + 2 + 0 + 1 = 26 -> 5.2

Kingdom Knights: 5 + 3 + (5 * 2) + 5 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 28 -> 5.6

 

So, let me know what you think of these battalions! Do these folks from Faerghus impress? Or do the Kingdom's forces seem a bit less-than-regal? Let's hear those ratings!

Edited October 3, 2022 by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Mistake.

[LoneRecon400]

Kingdom Infantry: 6/10. Seiros Mercs who trade +5 hit for +1 prt. I'd say that's not worth, but it's still a good early battalion.

Kingdom Lancer 3/10. A +3 attack battalion that exclusively offers some some avoid, which is pretty bad. Jeralt Mercs are pretty much a better version of this and no one really wants the avoid.

Kingdom Brawlers: 5/10. Brawlers that switch avoid for crit. Neither a are winning trade, but +4 atk is still good

Kingdom Magic Corp: 5/10. Filler Magic Battalion that you use until you get something better. Resonant Ice is worse than fire, but I don't feel it's a huge difference in performance.

Kingdom Knights: 7/10. My preferred version of Knights. +5 Atk / +4 Prt are already very good for the early game, but I also really like Assault Troop over Blaze. Being able to use it twice at an actual reliable hit rate without having to rely on rally charm is a pretty big boon early, especially with maps like Chapter 5 if you like to aggro everything immediately like i prefer to do. +5 hit is also nice, but it's not really anything too substantial. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by LoneRecon400

[Dark Holy Elf]

According to both the spreadsheet linked in the original post and another resource I have, the Kingdom Brawlers boost Avoid, not Crit. Not that this should impact anyone's rating too significantly.

Kingdom Infantry: 4 stats, 3 gambit. E rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Basically a clone of Seiros Mercenaries, but you have to pay for it and level it up later. Pretty borderline as to whether you buy it or not, I'd say (it's competing with a second Seiros Mercs for "fourth best E-rank physical battalion").

In a vacuum: 4. Adjusted: 5/10

Kingdom Lance Co: 3 stats, 3 gambit. E rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Jeralt's Mercenaries but with less avoid, no crit, and a worse gambit. Not completely terrible if you insist on using it, but there's not much reason to use it, either.

In a vacuum: 3. Adjusted: 3/10

Kingdom Brawlers: 4 stats, 4 gambit. E rank grounded, Chapter 3.

See the Empire version. Of note, it also basically completely outclasses Kingdom Lance Co, aside from losing 1 res.

In a vacuum: 4.5. Adjusted: 6/10

Kingdom Magic Corps: 4 stats, 4 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Basically Seiros Magic Corps with a weaker gambit; you'll only use it if you're using both. Mostly useful if you recruit Constance/Hapi, or if you dump the Stride battalion on Ashe while boosting both Annette's and Mercedes's authority... and there are worse ideas, so sure, it's decent.

In a vacuum: 4.5. Adjusted: 5.5/10

Kingdom Knights: 6 stats, 6 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Another solid knight battalion. Compared to Empire Knights, it's got a second Assault Troop instead of a second Blaze, which I consider roughly equivalent. It does mean that Seiros Knights have the niche of the only Blaze for the Lions, though... so I'm fine with all three knight battalions so far sharing the same score.

In a vacuum: 6.5. Adjusted: 7/10

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

According to both the spreadsheet linked in the original post and another resource I have, the Kingdom Brawlers boost Avoid, not Crit. Not that this should impact anyone's rating too significantly.

 

Thanks for the catch! I seem to have just typed the explanation up wrong. The boost is indeed to Avoid, not Crit. Just updated my post to reflect that.

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Basically Seiros Magic Corps with a weaker gambit; you'll only use it if you're using both. Mostly useful if you recruit Constance/Hapi, or if you dump the Stride battalion on Ashe while boosting both Annette's and Mercedes's authority... and there are worse ideas, so sure, it's decent.

Obviously, I need them for my totally optimal Mage Dedue build.

Pretty interesting how, out of the first ten or so battalions you get on any given route, only two of them actually boost magical damage. And I don't think we've yet encountered any E-rank battalions that provide such a boost!

1 hour ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Kingdom Knights: 7/10. My preferred version of Knights. +5 Atk / +4 Prt are already very good for the early game, but I also really like Assault Troop over Blaze. Being able to use it twice at an actual reliable hit rate without having to rely on rally charm is a pretty big boon early, especially with maps like Chapter 5 if you like to aggro everything immediately like i prefer to do. +5 hit is also nice, but it's not really anything too substantial. 

I haven't aggro'd it in awhile, at least not on Maddening. Tend to just take it as a slow spiral. My next Golden Deer playthrough, though, I'd like to see if I could use Lysithea Warpstrats to enable a quick clear. Not sure who'd be up to the solo bosskill, though...