What is your unpopular video game opinion?

[Fabulously Olivier]

29 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

it discourages combat against anything that isn't at the player's exact level

I will say that the game works significantly better if you turn on the enemy upscaling feature, but if you do, beware of rat swarms!

[ping]

6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

All the Pokémon generations were based on real locations. Gens 1-4 were based on different parts of Japan:

• Gen 1 was based on the Kanto region, to the point where its name in the game is the Kanto region.
• Gen 2 was based on the Kansai and Tokei regions.
• Gen 3 (Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald) was based on the island of Kyushu: the southernmost of Japan's four main islands.
• Gen 4 was based on the island of Hokkaido: the northernmost of Japan's four main islands. Incidentally, the island of Hokkaido is also the setting of the anime Golden Kamuy.

I don't understand the complaints about gens 3 and 4 feeling like "generic modern" and not like real places; they were very clearly inspired by real locations and made a lot of references to those places.

While all Pokémon regions have their real world equivalent, Gen 1 had small, but explicit nods towards PKMN!Kanto being actual, real world Kanto, Japan. @henrymidfields mentioned Lt. Surge, "The Lightning American", and the Colombia shuttle (upstairs in the Pewter City museum). The journal entries in the Pokemon Mansion on Cinnabar Island are also from Guyana, South America.

I don't know if the Johto games added any references of that sort, but it (and the GBA remakes) at least kept the original ones intact. I don't think that later regions, while referencing their inspirations, ever do that Harry-Potter-esque "this is the real world but with magic pokemon" style again.

[henrymidfields]

6 hours ago, ping said:

While all Pokémon regions have their real world equivalent, Gen 1 had small, but explicit nods towards PKMN!Kanto being actual, real world Kanto, Japan. @henrymidfields mentioned Lt. Surge, "The Lightning American", and the Colombia shuttle (upstairs in the Pewter City museum). The journal entries in the Pokemon Mansion on Cinnabar Island are also from Guyana, South America.

I don't know if the Johto games added any references of that sort, but it (and the GBA remakes) at least kept the original ones intact. I don't think that later regions, while referencing their inspirations, ever do that Harry-Potter-esque "this is the real world but with magic pokemon" style again.

I also remember Misty in the OS anime talk about how she wanted to travel to France. The anime's novelization witten by director Shudo even mentioned real life countries and indirectly even Japan's history during and right after World War 2 as a background plot point for Vermillion City.

Also, @vanguard333, to further elabourate, Gen 3's region lacked the equivalent for Shimonoseki and the bit sticking out from Honshu (that should have been where the battle facilty/resort was), and I remember reading from Japanese game mag sources of the time right around RS's release that Hoenn's region is... I think far away, or even detached from Johto/Kanto as some tropical region when Kyushu isn't that much hotter than the rest of the main Japanese archipelago. Kyushu does gets below 10 deg C during January and February, and Fukuoka even gets snow! And sure, they do have 30+ deg days, but so does the rest of Japan. The hottest temperature recorded in Japan was actually somwhere in Akita, far up north. Compare that to Hawaii, Saipan, or Queensland where winter or snow (well, at least outside of very high altitudes) are almost completely absent outside of some rare freak event. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by henrymidfields

[vanguard333]

10 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I will say that the game works significantly better if you turn on the enemy upscaling feature, but if you do, beware of rat swarms!

It's not just enemies that are too low leveled that's the problem though; the game also has a similar problem as the Xenoblade games where, right around almost every corner and always in the most inconvenient places, there's always an extremely high-level monster that you can't possibly hope to fight until near the end of the game. I remember visiting an island to do a level 10 sidequest involving helping out a friendly rock troll, wanting to explore more of the island after finishing the sidequest, and walking maybe 10 steps before being suddenly ambushed by a level 30+ giant bird monster and being forced to leave the island entirely.

 

6 hours ago, ping said:

While all Pokémon regions have their real world equivalent, Gen 1 had small, but explicit nods towards PKMN!Kanto being actual, real world Kanto, Japan. @henrymidfields mentioned Lt. Surge, "The Lightning American", and the Colombia shuttle (upstairs in the Pewter City museum). The journal entries in the Pokémon Mansion on Cinnabar Island are also from Guyana, South America.

I don't know if the Johto games added any references of that sort, but it (and the GBA remakes) at least kept the original ones intact. I don't think that later regions, while referencing their inspirations, ever do that Harry-Potter-esque "this is the real world but with magic pokemon" style again.

Oh; is that what @henrymidfields was referring to? Huh; I honestly don't remember any of those explicit references being in FireRed (the GBA remake of Red), but I haven't played that game in a very long time.

 

5 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Also, @vanguard333, to further elabourate, Gen 3's region lacked the equivalent for Shimonoseki and the bit sticking out from Honshu (that should have been where the battle facilty/resort was), and I remember reading from Japanese game mag sources of the time right around RS's release that Hoenn's region is... I think far away, or even detached from Johto/Kanto as some tropical region when Kyushu isn't that hotter than the rest of the main Japanese archipelago. (Kyushu does gets below 10 deg C during January and February, and Fukuoka even gets snow!)

I see. I don't know too much about Kyushu. However, regarding the climate of the region at least, I can say that Japanese stories tend to exaggerate the differences in climate between their various regions; Pokémon games are far from alone in doing that. Kyushu is the warmest, so naturally Hoenn is very hot. Similarly, Hokkaido is the coldest, so naturally Sinnoh is very cold.

That said, while I don't know enough about Kyushu to know if Hoenn is an accurate version of it, I do know enough about Hokkaido to know that Sinnoh is very thorough in its references to Hokkaido: Mt. Coronet is a reference to Mt. Asahi as well as Hokkaido being very mountainous in its center, Jubilife City is based on Sapporo, the coal mining in the town with the first gym leader is based on the Ishikari coalfield, etc. The only thing missing from Diamond/Pearl/Platinum is any explicit reference to the Ainu: an indigenous population that lives in Hokkaido and lived there long before Japan colonized it, and unfortunate timing might be the reason for that: Diamond and Pearl released in 2006; it wasn't until 2008, one year after the UN's Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, that the Japanese Government officially recognized the Ainu as a distinct indigenous population. It's worth noting that Pokémon Legends Arceus does reference the Ainu by having the Diamond and Pearl clans be loosely based on them.

[Fabulously Olivier]

39 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

It's not just enemies that are too low leveled that's the problem though; the game also has a similar problem as the Xenoblade games where, right around almost every corner and always in the most inconvenient places, there's always an extremely high-level monster that you can't possibly hope to fight until near the end of the game. I remember visiting an island to do a level 10 sidequest involving helping out a friendly rock troll, wanting to explore more of the island after finishing the sidequest, and walking maybe 10 steps before being suddenly ambushed by a level 30+ giant bird monster and being forced to leave the island entirely.

 

Oh; is that what @henrymidfields was referring to? Huh; I honestly don't remember any of those explicit references being in FireRed (the GBA remake of Red), but I haven't played that game in a very long time.

 

I see. I don't know too much about Kyushu. However, regarding the climate of the region at least, I can say that Japanese stories tend to exaggerate the differences in climate between their various regions; Pokémon games are far from alone in doing that. Kyushu is the warmest, so naturally Hoenn is very hot. Similarly, Hokkaido is the coldest, so naturally Sinnoh is very cold.

That said, while I don't know enough about Kyushu to know if Hoenn is an accurate version of it, I do know enough about Hokkaido to know that Sinnoh is very thorough in its references to Hokkaido: Mt. Coronet is a reference to Mt. Asahi as well as Hokkaido being very mountainous in its center, Jubilife City is based on Sapporo, the coal mining in the town with the first gym leader is based on the Ishikari coalfield, etc. The only thing missing from Diamond/Pearl/Platinum is any explicit reference to the Ainu: an indigenous population that lives in Hokkaido and lived there long before Japan colonized it, and unfortunate timing might be the reason for that: Diamond and Pearl released in 2006; it wasn't until 2008, one year after the UN's Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, that the Japanese Government officially recognized the Ainu as a distinct indigenous population. It's worth noting that Pokémon Legends Arceus does reference the Ainu by having the Diamond and Pearl clans be loosely based on them.

To some extent. But it's nowhere near as bad as the Xenoblade games are about it. XC1 is literred with level 90s everywhere, and XC2 loves its patrolling superbosses in low level zones (fuck that gorilla!)

[ping]

37 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Oh; is that what @henrymidfields was referring to? Huh; I honestly don't remember any of those explicit references being in FireRed (the GBA remake of Red), but I haven't played that game in a very long time.

They are easy to miss. Lt. Surge is probably the most visible, and even for him, I think it's only explicit on his Gym sign (The Lightning American!).

[vanguard333]

6 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

To some extent. But it's nowhere near as bad as the Xenoblade games are about it. XC1 is literred with level 90s everywhere, and XC2 loves its patrolling superbosses in low level zones (fuck that gorilla!)

I agree that it's nowhere near as bad as the main Xenoblade games. In any case, I've long argued that, in a number of popular RPGs, the level-up system is often redundant and could easily be removed without substantially affecting the game (and in some cases could easily improve the game), and The Witcher 3 is one of my favourite examples to use.

I will say that I think Xenoblade X handled high-level enemy placement well overall; most tyrants are in conspicuous places, and enemy units with a higher level than your expected level are generally used as a way to tell the player "Find a way around" rather than, "don't be here"; i.e., they actually encourage exploration instead of discouraging it. I still remember navigating the swamp/forest area, finding these level 30 crocodile-like enemies on the ground (when the player is expected to be level 15) and being stuck until I found a way to a higher level above the crocodiles, and I remember feeling that was actually clever once I noticed the ramp.

 

6 hours ago, ping said:

They are easy to miss. Lt. Surge is probably the most visible, and even for him, I think it's only explicit on his Gym sign (The Lightning American!).

I see. In any case, I haven't played FireRed in a very long time.

By the way, what do you think of the argument I made about the Sinnoh region and Hokkaido?

[ping]

9 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

By the way, what do you think of the argument I made about the Sinnoh region and Hokkaido?

I don't know enough about Japan to make an informed comment, sorry. I do agree that the pre-Platinum 'dex is pretty flawed and I'll add Ice as another heavily underrepresented type. I was very surprised to learn that the remakes reverted the Plat changes.

Actually, related to that and relevant to the main topic: One thing I didn't mind about DP was that some gym leaders and elite 4 members used Pokemon not of "their" type. The underlying reason (there being literally two fully evolved fire Pokemon in all of Sinnoh, for example) sucks, but I think it's neat that the boss fights have a bit more variety to them and can't just be won by spamming, to stay with Flint, Earthquake or Surf.

[vanguard333]

5 hours ago, ping said:

I don't know enough about Japan to make an informed comment, sorry. I do agree that the pre-Platinum 'dex is pretty flawed and I'll add Ice as another heavily underrepresented type. I was very surprised to learn that the remakes reverted the Plat changes.

Actually, related to that and relevant to the main topic: One thing I didn't mind about DP was that some gym leaders and elite 4 members used Pokemon not of "their" type. The underlying reason (there being literally two fully evolved fire Pokemon in all of Sinnoh, for example) sucks, but I think it's neat that the boss fights have a bit more variety to them and can't just be won by spamming, to stay with Flint, Earthquake or Surf.

I see. That makes sense; I myself would've known almost nothing about Hokkaido if I hadn't watched the anime Golden Kamuy, which takes place in Hokkaido near the start of the 20th century.

Yeah, the remakes reverting things back to how they were in Diamond and Pearl was really dumb. When the remakes were first announced, I was saying that they should've made a remake of Platinum, as that's the version that pretty much everyone agrees is the best. Even the Ruby and Sapphire remakes bothered to integrate some of the Emerald content via the postgame "Delta Episode" storyline.

That was indeed kind-of neat.

 

By the way, since we're talking about the Sinnoh games, I just thought of another unpopular opinion: I actually like the graphics in Legends Arceus overall. Actually, perhaps a better way to describe it would be that, while I agree with everyone that the graphical quality was subpar and had a lot of technical problems, I do think that the game's art style was easily enough to make up for it for the most part. At times, the game is capable of looking gorgeous.

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

My unpopular opinion: The drawbacks of game cartridges (expensive, smaller capacity) aren't as bad as those of game CDs (less durable, cannot hold saves, load times).

Edited October 31, 2022 by Chaos Man

[Integrity]

On 10/31/2022 at 6:20 AM, Chaos Man said:

My unpopular opinion: The drawbacks of game cartridges (expensive, smaller capacity) aren't as bad as those of game CDs (less durable, cannot hold saves, load times).

i'm gonna be That Guy and refute the unpopular opinion, so fuck me i guess

you're grossly misrepresenting the drawbacks and advantages of cartridges here, because all of your points stopped mattering in the late obama administration.

the big truth: cartridges are more expensive and have lower capacity, though those two things go hand in hand

the soft truth: cartridges are more durable, though with general use by not-children both have similar practical durability, and when we're talking actual children cartridges are completely destructible

the untruths: cds have longer load times and cannot hold saves. the former of these is hardly true anymore with m.2 hard drives, which read with nearly RAM speeds and are becoming standard on consoles, let alone that SSD load times were comparable to cartridge speeds for most users. the latter of these is technically true, but the centralization of technology has made portable saves via cartridge completely irrelevant - have you, op, ever taken your switch cartridge to another system to play it with your saves? i'd wager not, and even if you had, a sane system would simply have your saves on the cloud.

if your unpopular opinion is that the cloud is bad, actually, then fair enough

E: i wish to note that our lord and savior the only cartridge console left the nintendo switch still often requires or requests patches on inserting the cartridges, which completely erases the benefits

Edited November 4, 2022 by Integrity

[vanguard333]

On 10/31/2022 at 6:20 AM, Chaos Man said:

My unpopular opinion: The drawbacks of game cartridges (expensive, smaller capacity) aren't as bad as those of game CDs (less durable, cannot hold saves, load times).

CDs and cartridges' strengths and weaknesses aren't so much a matter of which ones outweigh the other, so much as which is best suited for a particular context. For instance, in the case of portable consoles like the Gameboy, DS, Switch, etc., cartridges are clearly the better choice because they are more compact than CDs which, while flat, take up a greater surface area, cartridges being more durable is far more useful in the case of a portable console that can easily be accidentally dropped, and, for playing on the go, one needs the loading times to be as quick as possible. Only one portable console even tried to use CDs: the PSP, and there were enough problems that its successor, the PS Vita, switched to cartridges.

In the time when CDs rose to prominence for home consoles (the generation of the PS1 and N64), the advent of 3D graphics and voice acting meant that new games took up far more space than ever before, and the consoles themselves couldn't store enough of the data. It was a time when games like Metal Gear Solid took up 2 discs and Final Fantasy 7 took up 3 discs; those games were never going to fit on cartridges of the time. So, the load times and inability to hold saves was worth it because the game could actually fit. Not only that, but durability doesn't matter so much in the case of a home console.

Today, cartridges and CDs alike are capable of enough storage, and the technology has come along far enough in general, that either could easily be suitable for home consoles. Depending on how technology continues developing, I wouldn't be surprised if things soon come full circle and cartridges eclipse CDs.

[henrymidfields]

Sorry for the late reply.

On 10/30/2022 at 1:13 AM, vanguard333 said:

I see. I don't know too much about Kyushu. However, regarding the climate of the region at least, I can say that Japanese stories tend to exaggerate the differences in climate between their various regions; Pokémon games are far from alone in doing that. Kyushu is the warmest, so naturally Hoenn is very hot. Similarly, Hokkaido is the coldest, so naturally Sinnoh is very cold.

Nevery really watched that much anime, or read that much manga in general, so I didn't know the exaggeration was the norm. I still think there could have been a better choice in the region for Gen 3, but at least I now see the method. I think Hokkaido actually had the lowest temperature recorded in the country, and that part of the region rarely got above 30 deg Celcius (well at least until climate change of recent years started to really kick in). 

On 10/30/2022 at 1:13 AM, vanguard333 said:

That said, while I don't know enough about Kyushu to know if Hoenn is an accurate version of it, I do know enough about Hokkaido to know that Sinnoh is very thorough in its references to Hokkaido: Mt. Coronet is a reference to Mt. Asahi as well as Hokkaido being very mountainous in its center, Jubilife City is based on Sapporo, the coal mining in the town with the first gym leader is based on the Ishikari coalfield, etc. The only thing missing from Diamond/Pearl/Platinum is any explicit reference to the Ainu: an indigenous population that lives in Hokkaido and lived there long before Japan colonized it, and unfortunate timing might be the reason for that: Diamond and Pearl released in 2006; it wasn't until 2008, one year after the UN's Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, that the Japanese Government officially recognized the Ainu as a distinct indigenous population. It's worth noting that Pokémon Legends Arceus does reference the Ainu by having the Diamond and Pearl clans be loosely based on them.

With the Ainu, it's admittedly still politically hot potato topic, with some people still denying that they were Indeginous. And the Japanese in general really do not like getting into political debates compared to other countries. So while it's not great the Ainu were left out in DPPt, it's not really unexpected.

Didn't know about the Ishikari Coalfields per se, although I know of one such town, which is Yubari City, which was one of many cities that contributed to Japan's Industrial Revolution. Unfortunately, it's become the Japanese version, and a version that is even worse than, Detroit, as the city not only previously declared bankrupcy in 2007, but also continues to shrink both in effective urban area and population with no way out. At least actual Detroit in recent years seems to be improving with new investment and business and continuous population increase in its metro area (though not the city proper).

Another opinion:

The problems with Pokemon graphics for the 3DS isn''t Pokemon-specific. Y'all ever seen how borderline grainy and simplistic Persona Q's graphics (both 1 and 2) is, compared to the meticulous-looking P3-5 under the PS3-5 engines? Or how at least one case of better graphics ended up in performance sacrifice? (There is a relative lack of enemy numbers in 3DS-Hyrule Warriors showing up at a given time in that game, and how the battlefield looks very sparse compared to other Warrior entries and even HW's Wii U port!)

Edited November 5, 2022 by henrymidfields

[vanguard333]

4 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Sorry for the late reply.

Never really watched that much anime, or read that much manga in general, so I didn't know the exaggeration was the norm. I still think there could have been a better choice in the region for Gen 3, but at least I now see the method. I think Hokkaido actually had the lowest temperature recorded in the country, and that part of the region rarely got above 30 deg Celcius (well at least until climate change of recent years started to really kick in). 

No need to apologize.

I haven't really watched much anime either, so my claim should be taken with a grain of salt.

Hokkaido having the lowest temperature recorded in Japan honestly wouldn't surprise me.

 

4 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

With the Ainu, it's admittedly still politically hot potato topic, with some people still denying that they were Indigenous. And the Japanese in general really do not like getting into political debates compared to other countries. So while it's not great the Ainu were left out in DPPt, it's not really unexpected.

Didn't know about the Ishikari Coalfields per se, although I know of one such town, which is Yubari City, which was one of many cities that contributed to Japan's Industrial Revolution. Unfortunately, it's become the Japanese version, and a version that is even worse than, Detroit, as the city not only previously declared bankruptcy in 2007, but also continues to shrink both in effective urban area and population with no way out. At least actual Detroit in recent years seems to be improving with new investment and business and continuous population increase in its metro area (though not the city proper).

True; from what I have read (which admittedly isn't much), it is indeed still a difficult topic.

I honestly didn't know about the coalfields either until I did a quick google search about Hokkaido while discussing gen 3 and 4 with you. I didn't know about Yubari; that's interesting.

[Etrurian emperor]

-I think Shido isn't particularly well liked in the Persona community. I think he's pretty great. Shido's a very topical villain for the present day. Persona 5 tackles a lot of societal issues like the division between young and old, government corruption, the march of technology and I think a demagogue joining hands with corrupt entities within society to take over the country just adds to that. As far as personality goes Shido's just a basic villain, but he's very good at representing the current climate. 

-I know we're not supposed to like old Kratos and everyone agrees he's a dirtbag, but my unpopular opinion would be that I think he's straight up the villain of God of War. Not an anti hero, not a lighter shade of black but just the villain.

Kratos destroys the world because he wants revenge on Zeus for killing him, but Zeus killed Kratos because he just wouldn't stop abusing his power. Well, that was more the excuse to do it, but it remains a fact that Zeus destroying Kratos was richly deserved. And in their final battle its Zeus who talks about restoring all the damage Kratos had been doing, while Kratos is just obsessed with killing Zeus even if he knows that each god he kills just furthers the destruction of the world.

-Kazuma from Ace Attorney is pretty well liked. He even got an expanded role in the sequel because fans liked him so much. I think he's stupid though. His role in the story is stupid. Everything about his story is just. so. stupid. And not the good kind of stupid like Japocalifornia or solving crimes with Herlock Sholmes. His transition from the first game to the second was ''rough'' to say the least and it really soured me on his character. 

 

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Hoarding items/gold/ressources (in a game) is never a problem. 

 

[ping]

19 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Hoarding items/gold/ressources (in a game) is never a problem. 

'Never' might be stretching it. I know that spending your money is a very important skill in competitive RTS games. In singleplayer games? Eh, it's advantageous to make use of one's resources, but it's not like playing 'suboptimal' is a problem.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Yeah, I think stories are pretty bad for video games. This has never stopped me from musing on them or brainstorming them, but I realistically acknowledge that, if I wanted a compelling narrative or useful insight, I should probably go read a book. Video games, unsurprising when you break the name down, are games.

Edited November 23, 2022 by AnonymousSpeed

[Florete]

27 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Yeah, I think stories are pretty bad for video games. This has never stopped me from musing on them or brainstorming them, but I realistically acknowledge that, if I wanted a compelling narrative or useful insight, I should probably go read a book. Video games, unsurprising when you break the name down, are games.

Books are just paper and ink.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

18 hours ago, ping said:

'Never' might be stretching it. I know that spending your money is a very important skill in competitive RTS games.

"Never" was a no bueno word, I guess. The entire purpose of RTS games is buying bigger guns to shoot at the opponent. Imagine building not one single thing in SC2 and just sitting on your base.

And with terran that can actually be a winning strat, if a stupid one.

On the other hand, Civ 6. Yeah, that faith you didn´t use in your Monumentality Golden Age (because you forgot)? Snag some great people. Buy CC buildings with Valletta. Etc.

14 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Yeah, I think stories are pretty bad for video games. This has never stopped me from musing on them or brainstorming them, but I realistically acknowledge that, if I wanted a compelling narrative or useful insight, I should probably go read a book. Video games, unsurprising when you break the name down, are games.

why read book when can go in archive

[vanguard333]

17 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Yeah, I think stories are pretty bad for video games. This has never stopped me from musing on them or brainstorming them, but I realistically acknowledge that, if I wanted a compelling narrative or useful insight, I should probably go read a book. Video games, unsurprising when you break the name down, are games.

I disagree with stories being bad for video games, but I do think that story shouldn't take precedence over gameplay (it's one reason why I don't like most Naughty Dog games like Uncharted or TLOU; they're not games, they're movies where the audience has to keep holding the remote for more reasons than just controlling the volume).

I can't remember exactly, but I think Miyamoto once clarified his stance on story in video games being that there should be just enough story to provide sufficient context for the gameplay; no more, and (perhaps most importantly) no less. If it's true that he said that, then I think he's almost completely right; I honestly think games are at their best when both gameplay is informing story and story is informing gameplay.

For example, most acclaimed tragic-prequel games (Shadow of the Colossus, Halo Reach, Final Fantasy Crisis Core, etc.) end on a mission that the player cannot win, and it isn't a cutscene; the player must play through this unwinnable final battle, and the player must lose. On its own, such a mission would normally be a terrible way to end a game, but that context that it's a tragic prequel means the player is experiencing what the character is going through and elevates it from a bad gameplay experience into a good gameplay-narrative experience.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Okay, unpopular counter-opinion. A good narrative can be just as important as good gameplay, and sometimes moreso.

 

Also, gameplay is as subjective as narrative, if not moreso. What makes gameplay superior to you may make it inferior to me. IE: Lower durability/higher damage resulting in faster gameplay is often held up as fun, whereas I find it distinctly unfun. Put into the context of Fire Emblem, I do not consider Fates a fun game. I do not think it is mechanically good, or has good map design. I know many disagree. But that's the thing. If you have a game with "good" gameplay, and put no effort into its narrative, it offers zero value to people who do not click with that gameplay.

[Original Alear]

21 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Yeah, I think stories are pretty bad for video games. This has never stopped me from musing on them or brainstorming them, but I realistically acknowledge that, if I wanted a compelling narrative or useful insight, I should probably go read a book. Video games, unsurprising when you break the name down, are games.

If you want a useful insight, talk to me. It's not that I have any, but after exposure to my stupidity, god tends to reward people with useful revelations as an apology. This is how I get all my useful insights, then they go away before I can make good on them because I'm stupid.

IMO, I can find myself drawn into games as well as books at times, but if the game play gets complex/obtrusive/lengthy enough then it can be a barrier to seamless/uninterrupted story.

EDIT-What story should we tell here on SF? It's already orchestrated, I'm onto you guys, and me as well.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Original Johan Liebert

[Etrurian emperor]

In most Three Kingdoms related media I get a bit irritated at the amount of time it spends trying to convince me that Lu Bu is this supreme baddass. This because his historical record kinda paints him as a gigantic loser who lost every conflict he ever engaged in. So whenever I play Dong Zhou in Three Kingdoms Total war I'm probably the only player who makes it a point to keep Dong Zhou around rather than replace him with Lu Bu. Besides rampaging across China with a fat overly evil warlord can be kinda fun.

On that Total War related note I also really liked the Eight Princes DLC campaign. Its not what the fans wanted. Its not what I wanted, but often people don't know what they want until they get it. It was a very interesting and daring decision of the devs, and its a shame it completely failed to pay off. Gameplay wise it offered a neat change from the base game by making its respective empire quite powerful and able crush you if you weren't careful. 

[AnonymousSpeed]

9 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

On the other hand, Civ 6. Yeah, that faith you didn´t use in your Monumentality Golden Age (because you forgot)? Snag some great people. Buy CC buildings with Valletta. Etc.

Civ6 is also just a really, terribly, awfully balanced game, not only in terms of civilizations being unbalanced but also in terms of the absurdity of its own mechanics.

6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I disagree with stories being bad for video games, but I do think that story shouldn't take precedence over gameplay (it's one reason why I don't like most Naughty Dog games like Uncharted or TLOU; they're not games, they're movies where the audience has to keep holding the remote for more reasons than just controlling the volume).

I can't remember exactly, but I think Miyamoto once clarified his stance on story in video games being that there should be just enough story to provide sufficient context for the gameplay; no more, and (perhaps most importantly) no less. If it's true that he said that, then I think he's almost completely right; I honestly think games are at their best when both gameplay is informing story and story is informing gameplay.

For example, most acclaimed tragic-prequel games (Shadow of the Colossus, Halo Reach, Final Fantasy Crisis Core, etc.) end on a mission that the player cannot win, and it isn't a cutscene; the player must play through this unwinnable final battle, and the player must lose. On its own, such a mission would normally be a terrible way to end a game, but that context that it's a tragic prequel means the player is experiencing what the character is going through and elevates it from a bad gameplay experience into a good gameplay-narrative experience.

The forced loss thing has at least been done well in Spec Ops where the illusion of victory exists, and I've heard Stalker manages to get some of that too, but I'm generally of the opinion that a forced loss is a form of deceit, and not a clever one either. I agree with you and Miyamoto on the first part, but I definitely know which side I want to err on.

2 hours ago, Original Johan Liebert said:

If you want a useful insight, talk to me. It's not that I have any, but after exposure to my stupidity, God tends to reward people with useful revelations as an apology.

 

Not entirely un-Biblical.

2 hours ago, Original Johan Liebert said:

IMO, I can find myself drawn into games as well as books at times, but if the game play gets complex/obtrusive/lengthy enough then it can be a barrier to seamless/uninterrupted story.

And vice-versa.

2 hours ago, Original Johan Liebert said:

EDIT-What story should we tell here on SF? It's already orchestrated, I'm onto you guys, and me as well.

There are many sad stories that are told merely by us being here.

How about a story centered on gnome hunting?

40 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

In most Three Kingdoms related media I get a bit irritated at the amount of time it spends trying to convince me that Lu Bu is this supreme baddass. This because his historical record kinda paints him as a gigantic loser who lost every conflict he ever engaged in. So whenever I play Dong Zhou in Three Kingdoms Total war I'm probably the only player who makes it a point to keep Dong Zhou around rather than replace him with Lu Bu. Besides rampaging across China with a fat overly evil warlord can be kinda fun.

Very "based" as the kids say.