Nohrshido

[AnonymousSpeed]

This is a Conquest challenge run with an ostensibly simple goal: Make a team where every unit is in a Hoshidan class.

Between captures, seals, etc, this is actually a pretty trivial task. So, let's make it more interesting, by presenting of two possible twists:

1. What's the earliest we can make a full team of Hoshidan classes without using captured units?
   • A "full team" consists of 16 units
   • "Earliest" means "in the fewest number of chapters", whether that's paralogues or main-story chapters.
2. What's the maximum number of units we can have in Hoshidan classes without using captured units?

Further clarifications for the rules:

1. "Hoshidan classes" means all the usual suspects, but also Villager and Dancer. It does not include Nohr Prince.
2. Private quarters abuse, the lottery shop, and DLC are banned.

To aid our theory-crafting, I've included a by-chapter break-down of relevant information. Seals, characters, etc.

Spoiler

Chapter 6:

• Heart Seal, Friendship Seal, and Partner Seal from the Staff Store
• Corrin starts in your group and can have a Hoshidan class as his/her talent

Chapter 8:

• Odin joins with Samurai as a Heart Seal class

Chapter 9:

• Heart Seal from Haitaka
• Azura joins as a Dancer

Chapter 10:

• Selena joins with Sky Knight as a Heart Seal class

Chapter 11:

• Kaze joins as a Ninja

Chapter 12:

• Laslow joins with Ninja as a Heart Seal class

Chapter 13:

• Two more Heart Seals, Friendship Seals, and Partner Seals from the Staff Store

Chapter 16:

• Heart Seal from an enemy Hero
• Shura, if spared, joins with Ninja as a Heart Seal class

Chapter 23:

• Izana becomes possible to recruit

Paralogues:

Spoiler

Paralogue 1:

• Mozu joins as a villager

Paralogue 2 (Kana):

• Kana joins with various possible Heart Seal classes, which can include Hoshidan ones

Paralogue 3 (Shigure):

• Shigure joins as a Sky Knight

Paralogue 4 (Dwyer):

• Friendship Seal (if 4 or more NPC knights survive)

Paralogue 5 (Sophie):

• Partner Seal (if 5 or more NPC villagers survive)

Paralogue 6 (Midori):

• Midoria joins as an Apothecary

Paralogue 15 (Siegbert):

• Partner Seal from enemy Mercenary/Hero

Paralogue 17 (Ignatius):

• Friendship Seal from the boss

Paralogue 19 (Percy):

• Percy joins with Sky Knight as a Heart Seal class if Beruka is his mother

Paralogue 20 (Ophelia):

• Ophelia joins with Samurai as a Heart Seal class

Paralogue 21 (Soleil):

• Soleil joins with Ninja as a Heart Seal class
• Friendship Seal (if 3 or more NPC lancers survive)

Paralogue 22 (Nina):

• Nina joins with Diviner as a Heart Seal class if Nyx is her mother
• Partner Seal from a chest

Supports:

Spoiler

Corrin can give:

• His/her talent to any character (except Kana) via marriage
• His/her talent to Kana via inheritance

Mozu can give:

• Archer to Effie or Nyx via friendship
• Archer to her husband via marriage
• Archer to any child via inheritance

Odin can give:

• Samurai to Leo via friendship
• Samurai to Nyx via marriage

Azura can give:

• Sky Knight to Elise via friendship
• Sky Knight to her husband via marriage
• Sky Knight to her child via inheritance

Selena can give:

• Sky Knight to Laslow via marriage
• Sky Knight to Soleil via inheritance

Laslow can give:

• Ninja to Selena via marriage

Kaze can give:

• Ninja to Silas or Xander via friendship
• Ninja to his wife via marriage

I am sure that child units can cause all kinds of shenanigans this way, but I haven't really looked into it.

So yeah, I didn't have time to come up with an estimate for the challenge, since I spent all my time putting the above list together.

Edited November 15, 2022 by AnonymousSpeed

[Punished Dayni]

There's a couple of paralogue seals we can add: Seigbert gives a Partner Seal, Ignatius nets a Friendship Seal, Soleil's can also give a Friendship Seal and Nina gives a Partner Seal too.

We could also add Parallel classes to our consideration, but the cases are niche enough that I am not that enthused into looking at all the cases where they can happen. Looking at the inheritance planner, it's saying that Corrin passes down Nohr Noble to any other kid they'd have, so that's out if true.

As one of the people who doesn't really use the kids, how soon can we do it with just the Gen 1 cast? We have Corrin, Odin, Selena, Laslow, Mozu, Kaze and Azura able to access a hoshidan class without partner/friendship seals. Of those, it looks like Azura can give friendship to Elise and pass Sky Knight, you've gone into pretty much everything else, so how can we use this with the Seals we have available? We'll assume F!Corrin for this exercise.

Before Chapter 13 we have 2 H, 1 F and 1 P seals, so two of Odin, Laslow, Selena and Corrin can take those. Mozu could have gotten friendship with Effie in particular or less likely Elise and Azura and Corrin can be near if not already S ranked with Jakob in particular, who could take a Partner Seal. That's 7 possible before any paralogues (Let's say we reclass Jakob, Effie, Laslow and Corrin for our example). That's Kaze, Mozu, Azura, Laslow, Corrin, Jakob and Effie

At Chapter 13, we get another 6 Seals (2 H, 2F, 2P). By Chapter 16 we should be able to get Silas-Kaze and Elise-Azura A, so that's two more and the other two from earlier reclassed with heart seals as well (Odin, Selena). We can get S ranks for Mozu and Kaze with planning (Let's say Niles and Camilla respectively). Assuming all that, we can add Silas, Elise, Niles, Camilla, Selena and Odin to our earlier group for 13 total.

Looking back at the paralogues, we have options. Dwyer's paralogue has a friendship seal we could use on Leo if we get him and Odin to A rank in the paralogues (probably the hardest potion, but we have multiple paralogues to do this with), Nina's paralogue has a Partner seal we can use if we pair Odin-Nyx and Sophie's paralogue has a heart seal which we can use on Azura's partner but because Silas is already paired we don't want him and Azura, which isn't great. BUT we do have an out. Shura and a Heart Seal are available in Chapter 16. This does allow us to hit 16 before Chapter 17.

However, I want to do this without Shura. So coming back to Azura-Silas. Rather than pair them together, I'm going to use Arthur and Effie respectively. We only need to reclass Arthur after clearing Silas's paralogue to fulfill the request and we've plenty of time between Chapters 10 and 16, especially with the paralogues (Kana, Dwyer, Nina, Midori, Ophelia, which gives us 10 maps (10-14 as well) for Azura to get there if we're playing efficiently and Silas probably reaches it earlier with Effie), so with those done Arthur should be able to reclass and that's 16.

So, what are our 16 Gen 1 units? It's a mess imo:

Azura: Songstress (Innate)

Corrin: Whatever talent you pick (Heart)

Mozu: Villager (I)

Kaze: Ninja (I)

Odin: Samurai (H)

Selena: Sky Knight (H)

Laslow: Ninja (H)

Jakob: Corrin's Talent (Partner)

Effie: Archer (Friendship)

Elise: Sky Knight (F)

Silas: Ninja (F)

Nyx: Samurai (P)

Leo: Samurai (F)

Niles: Archer (P)

Camilla: Ninja (P)

Arthur: Sky Knight (P)

Not something I think worth going for, but hey, Chapter 16, 16 units, no Shura required. There's the 3 of each type of seal from the shops, two heart seals, two partner seals and one friend seal from maps which covers the units we need to reclass.

All this can be further optimised, especially if we add the kids to the mix (stuff like Diviner Nina and using the kids already in Hoshidan classes would make more sense) and are actually trying to use the classes seriously, just wanted to think how possible it was with just Gen 1 before Chapter 20.

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:03 PM, Punished Dayni said:

There's a couple of paralogue seals we can add: Seigbert gives a Partner Seal, Ignatius nets a Friendship Seal, Soleil's can also give a Friendship Seal and Nina gives a Partner Seal too.

We could also add Parallel classes to our consideration, but the cases are niche enough that I am not that enthused into looking at all the cases where they can happen. Looking at the inheritance planner, it's saying that Corrin passes down Nohr Noble to any other kid they'd have, so that's out if true.

Whoops! Yeah, those were oversights on my part, they have now been corrected. I've also added how Azura can give Sky Knight to people.

On 11/13/2022 at 1:03 PM, Punished Dayni said:

So, what are our 16 Gen 1 units? It's a mess imo:

It's a mess, but it works, and I appreciate that you put what seals were necessary next to each one.

Azura-Arthur is kinda interesting because he joins pretty early, so he has more time to build supports with a character who doesn't really do the whole "dual strike" thing.

Supports info for reference.

On 11/13/2022 at 1:03 PM, Punished Dayni said:

All this can be further optimised, especially if we add the kids to the mix (stuff like Diviner Nina and using the kids already in Hoshidan classes would make more sense) and are actually trying to use the classes seriously, just wanted to think how possible it was with just Gen 1 before Chapter 20.

Probably. For the purpose of optimization, I think it makes sense to prioritize child paralogues that give children in Hoshidan classes, since you can save seals for other characters that way. Then again, I think waiting on Midori could slow you down a lot, which leaves just Shigure and kids who need seals. I feel like any sort of pre-Kaze accomplishment of this task would be pretty difficult, if it's even possible.