Book VII Discussion Thread

[DefyingFates]

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Even Gullveig specifically singled out Kiran (maybe she's actually Kiran's kid? While also being the "little sister" of Seidr?

Gullveig even says she's tied to Kiran, so Kiran being her parent (and her being Heidr first) would make sense. The soul child thing though... well, I didn't expect IS (or Seidr for that matter) to ever be so brazen about such a thing. Fjorm should take notes!

Seriously though, weird joke aside, the concept of a pseudo-child like that could be interesting, I guess? Maybe? I'm curious what'll happen now that Kiran is stuck with Gullveig though. Maybe she wants to create a spirit baby instead?

Okay, saying it so many times makes it really awkward.

[Tybrosion]

Well, this shit took a hard turn to the weird.

IS really let Freyja’s success go to their heads and made an entire book that’s as horny as her, huh?

[vikingsfan92]

Watch this baby be somehow specifically only the Brave version of Gullveig so somehow IS can make it our fault.

[DefyingFates]

47 minutes ago, vikingsfan92 said:

Watch this baby be somehow specifically only the Brave version of Gullveig so somehow IS can make it our fault.

I did wonder about that actually, but that would have required from very quick rewriting.

But I suppose it has been a month since CYL, and as long as Brave Gullveig isn't too important going forward...

Also, Brave Gullveig would be the playerbase's fault, so...

 

Edited Friday at 05:29 PM by DefyingFates

[Mercakete]

4 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Gullveig even says she's tied to Kiran, so Kiran being her parent (and her being Heidr first) would make sense. The soul child thing though... well, I didn't expect IS (or Seidr for that matter) to ever be so brazen about such a thing. Fjorm should take notes!

Seriously though, weird joke aside, the concept of a pseudo-child like that could be interesting, I guess? Maybe? I'm curious what'll happen now that Kiran is stuck with Gullveig though. Maybe she wants to create a spirit baby instead?

Okay, saying it so many times makes it really awkward.

Personally, I think this is partially because IS realized that they had to explain how the dragon founders made kids with the people they "gave their power/blood" to (the royals of Askr, Embla, Nifl, and Muspell, at the very least. Maybe life land, too, since I think Eir had Ymir's power, hence the multiple lives) since traditional babymaking wouldn't work in certain cases. (Askr+Lif, Nifl+whatsherface, etc. Not sure who the human was for Embla or (mistake corrected) Muspell, after all.) It's specifically genetic, after all. (Thinking about it like that, I guess Ash is Alfonse and Sharena's great great great great great great great great (etc.) aunt.)

Though, a thing that bothers me is how Seidr was basically all "the mortal just has to give a bit of his/her soul and then doesn't have to have anything to do with the kid afterwards. Not even pay child support!" No one likes being left high and dry by a parent. If we're making a kid, we should take responsibility for it and try to raise it with love and care (which seems to be what most of the mortal parents of the royal families did since, well, the royal families are a thing and trace their lineage back to their mortal ancestors more than to their deity ancestors.) Anyway, this plot line falls onto some sensitive topics and it probably should have been avoided.

As an aside, of course the kid would be a girl. Even if it's not snake lady, I bet it's a girl. X chromosomes seem to have a very high chance of being selected in this universe. Seems like not such a great thing for the continuation of the species but okay.

2 hours ago, vikingsfan92 said:

Watch this baby be somehow specifically only the Brave version of Gullveig so somehow IS can make it our fault.

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

I did wonder about that actually, but that would have required from very quick rewriting.

But I suppose it has been a month since CYL, and as long as Brave Gullveig isn't too important going forward...

Also, Brave Gullveig would be the playerbase's fault, so...

 

I forgot to mention it, but I considered this possibility too. And IS, leave me out of it; I didn't give votes to anyone but Elena. I did not consent to this.

 

Edit: I derp'd; Embla needs this to explain things too, since the founder of the country of the same name was Thrasir.

Edit again: I wonder if the "strangeness" Eitri was talking about at the end of Book 5 was actually in reference to all this, 'cause Book 6 wasn't actually that weird. It wouldn't surprise me if they have 2 teams of writers for Heroes and alternate books. Except that this feels like it's from the same people who gave us Book 4.

Edited Friday at 07:14 PM by Mercakete

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

If Gullveig is a creation between Kiran and Seidr Conception(the game)style it wouldn’t surprise me now since Kiran was single out of the existence erasing plus Heidr was hard pushing them together. Oh how fitting Gullveig winning CYL it’s literally fate now I’m CURIOUS what they’ll do(no Heidr clothes I hope). Plus RIP Gullveig lovers I guess.

This is honestly messed up if theory is true because it doesn’t feel like true love at all and feels forced upon me. It’s like you poof something outta nowhere which imo is pretty eh…not a fan it’s just logically wrong but I ain’t going deep on a game.

        Another is that Kiran isn’t a FE avatar but moreso the players playing the game so it doesn’t make sense to have something crazy like this. I hope IS knows what they’re doing here since I like the book so far hopefully this won’t make me change my thoughts close to mid point.

I guess there was Ash and Elm creations of their respective gods but I guess it’s more to do with it being a non-FE Avatar which otherwise would be ok.

Edited Friday at 08:33 PM by Ivy Wife Supremacy

[GrandeRampel]

My first reaction to this chapter was to laugh so much it hurt.

My second reaction was "nah, I don't buy it. It will be a red herring to confuse us. They wouldn't just randomly give us a kid".

But then I stopped to consider it for a second. It sure has been an awful long time since an Avatar had a kid and both Morgna and Kana were pretty popular, with so many players loving the build-a-family mechanics of the 3DS' games. So even if it's crazy they might just do it.

But there are some things to consider. If it's really Gullveig or something it would be kind of shitty since they showed the character to us months before revealing that she is our kid, which is really messed up when some people might already be attached to her as a waifu and would hate the Surprise Incest (like when they revealed that Azura is your biological cousin at the last possible second after you might have already made babies with her).

I honestly would prefer it if the kid isn't anyone we know at all, and possibly a character we meet at the very end of the book with a different design depending on our choice of Avatar in game (like they have purple hair if we play as purple haired Kiran). That I could accept and I would actually really love it, but it isn't a perfect solution either.

The first problem with this is that it would be a kid forced by the story like Lucina, and not like the Avatar Kids which you can just not have if you want to play as an Aro-Ace Robin or something.

The second problem is that it would force us to be either a single parent based on how they worded it, or married to Seithr if they backpedal on that detail. Both options aren't great. Many people feel a deep affection towards Kana and Morgan, but they feel an even deeper affection towards their chosen spouse. Forcing us to pick Seithr is not ideal.

The third problem is that Kiran, unlike every other Avatar (even the FE 7 one), is literally supposed to be us! And I can see people having problems with that, even people who loved having children in Awakening and Fates.

 

So yeah, no matter what this wasn't a great choice. There only three options:

1. It's a red herring, and if so why would they intentionally waste our time with something that is honestly in poor taste.
2. Our kid is Gullveig (or some other character we already know) which is yikes for the Surprise Incest effect.
3. Our kid is a brand new character (maybe with customization like Kiran, maybe not). Which has its own set of problems

 

Of the three options I prefer the third one for entirely selfish reasons (I missed having a Morgan/Kana in 3H and Engage), but I recognize that it's better for everyone if it's the first one.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

“The child” could possibly be a new character(maybe customizable feature like My Summoner that can actually be used in non MS modes) we haven’t seen yet and all of this overreaction could be for absolutely nothing but still an issue in of itself still. Something’s gonna come out of that whether you like it or not. FEH was missing a child like mechanic they have everything else so I should’ve saw something like this coming for a long time.

Edited Friday at 09:15 PM by Ivy Wife Supremacy

[vikingsfan92]

I still think Gullvieg is more likely Heior and really don't want Gullveig to be the summoner kid. I also hope the way they introduce Brave Gullveig is good but it honestly is a bit scary how I could see IS going similarly wild with Brave Gullveig story. So while I don't like it I can see them going the meme route I mentioned. 

Also I am not sure they are committed down this road just yet will have to wait for the next part of the story. Maybe we will find another way to solve the problem but they just didn't want to use the whole sacrificial ritual set up again.

[Sunwoo]

I wasn't in a good mood this morning so I refrained from posting in here until I'd slept on it a bit. Now, all I really have to say is ...

Fuck this story.

Why can't I play as a summoner the characters DON'T fap over?

[Some Jerk]

If the villainess that half the fanbase shamelessly horny-voted into winning CYL ends up being our future daughter, my sides are going to leave the solar system and possibly pass through the next galaxy over.

[Lightchao42]

The more I think about it the less I think Seidr will actually end up having a child. The whole thing is Njordr's idea and Seidr going to Kiran about it is her trying to make the best of an uncomfortable situation. Not to mention, Seidr is in the past and Kiran is currently being held hostage by Gullveig, so it's not like they can make the vow at the moment unless they did so offscreen. Or maybe I'm just overthinking things.

Of course, there's also the question of why Njordr wants Seidr to have a child in the first place. I'd think that he wants the child to absorb the golden curse and "become" Gullveig so they could kill her, but I'm not sure if FEH would go there.

[DefyingFates]

8 hours ago, Some Jerk said:

If the villainess that half the fanbase shamelessly horny-voted into winning CYL ends up being our future daughter, my sides are going to leave the solar system and possibly pass through the next galaxy over.

Oh, I'd forgotten about that somehow, but you're right, the fan fallout to that would be incredible xD

[Aedan7479]

I think I've calmed down after reading.... THAT. So we're going to the past for four chapters; it would be cool if we got a heroes children banner this year. I'm in the camp that think Heidr is our child and Gullveig, so I think Heidr will be born in the past, Gullveig will curse her past self, and we leave her behind, which probably leads to some grudge. A random thought occurred to me: imagine, since we've been kidnapped again, if Seidr asks Alfonse instead? if we could see Veronica's reaction, it'd be worth it.

Also, I'm kinda disappointed how they're using the 'out of order' story format, because this just feels like they mixed around the Chapter numbers without mixing up the story itself; after the 3rd chapter, I figured it would be in groups of four, but I though we'd at least die at the end of the first and second groups of four, rather than just a typical 'travel to the past to learn the truth' story.

[Mercakete]

11 hours ago, Aedan7479 said:

Also, I'm kinda disappointed how they're using the 'out of order' story format, because this just feels like they mixed around the Chapter numbers without mixing up the story itself; after the 3rd chapter, I figured it would be in groups of four, but I though we'd at least die at the end of the first and second groups of four, rather than just a typical 'travel to the past to learn the truth' story.

The problem with that is legacy. In the future, players (and especially new players) will probably play the story in order since all the chapters will be available. They need a story that works both in the mixed order and in the linear order because of that. Also, it's not like their choice here is bad. It's just in a "loop style" time travel arc. Think of it like a roller coaster. Sure, there are loops, but at the end of said loops, you move forward again, and the journey from start to end never branches even if you can tell that there was a loop. (In this case, there are signs of time being altered "already" while still "needing to be altered." For example, Freyr/Freyja's aunt giving Sharena a hint about how to persuade her in the past. For her, the past has already been altered, but for the Askr trio, it hasn't. And she seems to be aware of that, hence giving the hint. So, it's like you have 2 camps of perception coexisting at the same time: those who know what's been altered and are in "the second loop" and those who haven't altered it yet as being in "the first loop." Since this is all more because of precognition (goat aunt had the Ar and once Njordr gave the Ar's power to Seidr, she could time travel, so we can assume goat aunt could see the past as it would later be altered. Also, Kiran was given a vision of the future, so it hadn't happened yet, but the summoner knew what would happen if the future wasn't changed, so again, knowledge, not experience) than very much actual time traveling, this multi-layered-loop system actually works in a rational way, and I actually think IS is handling THAT aspect really well. You of course also have Seidr remembering Kiran in the past from when she was young, so there's obviously time travel/cognition things going on there, too.) It's the same thing here since the books are just arcs instead of their own stories. Ultimately, this is just one segment of the journey, which will continue on to the next book. I think they chose a style of time travel that works well for the format they have.

If you think about it, the only actual time travel we've seen... Actually, let me just break this down this way.

Instances of pre/postcognition:

- Seidr giving Kiran a vision of the future.

- Goat Aunt knowing about the past being altered in the (perception-based) future (as in, it hasn't happened yet according to the Askrans' personal histories as individuals, but has according to Goat Aunt's perceived personal history, if that makes sense), probably with the power of Njordr's Ar that she stole.

Instances of actual time travel:

- Gullveig jumping around the timeline. Ironically, though she is referred to as a "seer," her power is actual time travel. So, she may not even be a "seer" at all (unless she's using both powers; this is unconfirmed at this time, but would make sense since she always seems to know when to time travel to.)

- Seidr using the power of Njordr's Ar to travel back in time.

- POSSIBLY Njordr turning the development of the golden serpent curse back in time within Heidr's body (so only the curse's development went back in time and nothing else, since evidently, Njordr has time power enhanced by his Ar.) This is just a theory on how his control over this could work and why he's the only one who seems to be able to keep the golden curse at bay. If he could turn back its time, he could achieve this, but not totally remove it, as we've seen so far.

All that said, I'm not sure how IS is going to handle this book without including chapters of AT LEAST the changed future. Like, "Ch10X" or something. Or, maybe Gullveig gets defeated in the past chapters and the books' timelines continue into book 8 from the "present" of book 7? Anyway, time travel always makes for more complication in writing since all elements, in the end, need to be controlled (by the writer.) Otherwise, you get so flippin' many plot holes it's not funny. IS is doing an okay job of this, since they seem to have a very firm grip on major plot points (at least) and have them firmly stapled into place, to the point where characters with pre/postcognition even reference them, indicating, as mentioned, a stable time loop.

 

Now that all that's out of the way, anyone want to hear an uncomfortable alternate theory? What if Heidr is Gullveig, and Gullveig kidnapped Kiran to prevent Kiran from making a kid with Seidr because Seidr is actually the kid of Gullveig and Kiran, which is why Seidr remembers Kiran from her childhood and values Kiran so much without quite knowing why? And all this happens because Gullveig kidnaps Kiran, takes a bit of soul, and makes Seidr because Gullveig wants to make darn sure her big sister gets born (not because she actually cares about Kiran him/herself)? Have fun with the twisted love story, my dudes. Feels like a deity puppy mill (which may be why Njorder told Seidr to have a kid, given that all the deities keep dying lately) except that the deities are more motivated by one another than by the mortal whose soul they want to take a sample of.