Ranking each game by classes: Mercenary/Hero

[Whisky]

Even if we ranked the game in the Swordmaster topic, I think it's fine if they get ranked twice so Echoes Dread Fighters can be in this list too and any other game where that might apply, like FE1 and FE3 (which I haven't played). I'm not going to count Ike since he's a Lord. I'm also not going to list Shadow Dragon this time since I've realized that I really just don't know how good classes are in that game so I'll leave that to people more familiar with it and only include the games I've played more.

So, in which game are Heroes at their best and worst? Have they gotten better or worse over time or stayed about the same? Swordmasters had a lot of range in quality throughout the games, sometimes really good like in Echoes or Binding Blade, sometimes not so good like in, a lot of games actually, and some times somewhere in the middle.

With Heroes, I think they're almost always good, though there are exceptions. I could really go either way with a lot my rankings here so take the order with a bit of a grain of salt. I'll justify my reasoning though so that's the important part.

Echoes

• Dread Fighters are really solid in that game. I always found them strong and reliable, and I think they're considered really good in meta discussions. They're strong, fast, and halve all magical damage (after getting a +5 Res bonus just because). Sabre in particular seems really good. He's really fast and tanky. But Kamui and Deen also seem good and the Villagers can be pretty good as Mercenaries too. With Dread Fighter being seemingly one of the best classes in Echoes, it makes it a strong case for being at the top, even though it does have some tough competition.

Sacred Stones

• Maybe it's not even Hero that's good here and just Gerik. This guy is a beast. His base stats are so good, right off the bat he's one of the best units at taking out Gargoyles which is something that's hard to do for most units. I don't even know what else to say, this guy is just really good. For other units that can go into the class, while they won't be nearly as good as Gerik, it's still a good option for them. It's easily the better option for Garcia for the extra Spd it provides. For Ross, for some reason Berserker has as much Spd as Hero so he should probably go for that, but Hero would be a better pick than Warrior.

Blazing Sword

• Raven and Harken are both really strong units. Raven joins early with base stats to immediately be useful with minimal investment and is super fast, genuinely a contender for being the fastest unit in the game from a certain point of view. He shines most on HHM with his extra stats and enemies being stronger so his Spd is less superfluous, but he's not too bad on lower difficulties either. And Harken? The guy with base Str just 1 point below cap, enough Spd to double all but the fastest of enemies and almost as much Def as Hector? I think Harken is easily the strongest combat unit once he joins, bar Athos. He joins kind of late though.

Binding Blade

• I think Heroes are still really good here too, but not quite as good. Dieck is really strong. He gets overshadowed by Rutger and for good reason, but Dieck is still really good too. He's pretty much the next best thing. He does compete with Rutger though while Gerik and Raven just don't have the same opportunity cost. Echidna is also quite good when she joins but does fall off later on. These are good units but aren't overpowering like in the other games. And Oujay isn't good but that has nothing to do with the class, he's just underleveled and has low base stats. Also 1-2 range Hand Axes are still useful here, but not nearly as important as they are in FE7 and 8.

Three Houses

• Well, this is the only game I know of where Heroes aren't good. They're kind of really bad here actually. 5 Move in 3H is pathetic. Their stats aren't good. They have no good abilities, I mean Defiant Str isn't bad but it's not like Hunter's Volley or Fierce Iron Fist. Even if you get Defiant Str, you're better off taking it into one of those better classes to use it there. Swords just aren't as good as other weapon types in this game either. There was a general consensus that Swordmasters were at their worst iteration in 3H, and I think Heroes are even worse. Swordmasters have better stats than Heroes. And Axe skill bonus isn't worth much when Heroes are almost always better off using Swords due to Sword Faire. Maybe they should have gotten Axe Faire, but they don't. It really all comes back to that 5 Move though. That is really bad in 3H. There are 8 Move fliers with super canto, and even infantry units with much better mobility than this, like Assassin, Grappler, or WarMaster. I think Hero is really terrible in 3H. One of the worst classes in the game in my opinion. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Only listing games I've played in the last five years-ish

1. Echoes: The Dread Fighter line is great at every class tier. Packing the best combat of any non-lord class and not missing out on too much movement compared to mounted units. It's a solid pick for any villager that can choose it. I think the biggest argument not to raise up all of them is just that you don't have an infinite amount of good swords to equip them with. They're a bit lacking in physical bulk, but even before Dread Fighter a myrmidon can bait out witches fairly safely which is a helpful niche.
2. FE3: Mystery of the Emblem (disclaimer, I've only finished Book 1 at time of writing): Swords, high crit, and high speed are a potent combination here. The kill sword is very affordable and dominates for most of the game, the thunder sword is a 1-2 range option, and the dragon killer is essential for late game. Mounted units can dismount to use those swords too, but Unlike mounted units, mercenaries won't lose any stats in doing so. Or when deployed in indoor maps (which comprise a third of the game). Ogma and Navarre start out good and can become your most durable units if you stick with them (dragons deal fixed damage in this version, so high HP growth really pays off). The other members of this class are all serviceable replacements too.
3. FE7: Raven's got a lock on your first Hero Crest, no question. Even without hard mode bonuses, his stats are really good and you can promote him a little early to get immediate access to E rank hand axes which should improve his enemy phase performance. People point out FE7 is loaded with lance wielding enemies, but not in those immediate chapters following Raven's recruitment. It's funny, the only other member of this classline is Harken, who's a late game route exclusive. And Harken's not bad either! Surprise surprise, good pre-promotes in FE7. I think because pre-promotes are so good that I don't really value growth units like Raven as much as I would in other FE games. If Raven dies to an unlucky crit, it's not going to impact your playthrough a whole lot if you move on without him.
4. FE8: This really only concerns Gerik. I don't think Hero's a great choice for Garcia or Ross, because gaining access to swords doesn't do anything special for them. Berserker Ross has the same good statline, while Warrior can take out fliers more consistently (in fact I would argue Warrior is the best of the bow wielding classes). Hero's an obvious pick for Gerik though. As a unit, he's really only notable for his excellent bulk. Once he's lobbing hand axes he'll be great on enemy phase, and in the final chapters, you'll want high HP units to battle the fixed damage dealing dragons. His speed is noticeably lower than a lot of other FE8 units, but I wouldn't say that it's so low that he's missing out on doubles all the time. Good choice in Eirika's route, pretty sketchy in Ephraim's route.
5. FE1 Mercenaries are basically Marth without access to his three personal weapons and universal taunt feature. But hey, there are worse things than being a 7 Mov unit locked to swords. They can promote for 20 more level ups, but so can mounted units and promotion stat gains haven't been invented yet. It's totally fine to raise up Ogma or Navarre, but I think committing to both is where we're starting to invest a bit into the wrong units. Mounted units will do more with any excess exp.
6. Three Houses: Mercenary does reward you with equipable vantage, and I think that's worth considering on any unit running Wrath and/or Batallion Wrath, but it's less essential than other class masteries at the same class tier. Dedue especially if you're a fan of using Vengeance, then that means you're keeping him at low health anyway. Otherwise, nobody really wants to fight in the Mercenary or Hero classes. Especially since the Thief/Assassin classes are better to be in while being just as easy to certify as. Theoretically one unit that might benefit the most from reclassing to hero is Catherine who cannot because she's female. And if we consider Mortal Savant as part of this classline it doesn't look any better from that angle either. Sword classes don't cut it. And the two best swords in the game (Thunderbrand and Rapier+) are conveniently E rank and can be wielded from any class with no skill exp.

 

If I put these into tiers, the first two are in A, FE7's in B, the rest are C tier, but Eirika's route might be B if we're splitting hairs.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Alastor15243]

We're just ranking the class, right? Not the skills gained by being in it, unless they can't be transferred such as in Engage?

[Shadow Mir]

In my humble opinion:

• A tier in Mystery of the Emblem (in fact, I'd consider those to be the one thing I'm most worried about seeing on the enemy side in that game! Long story short, swords, high skill and high speed make for a lethal combination.)
• C tier in Awakening and Fates
• D tier in Three Houses (TV Tropes once said that this game might as well be the lowest point for the Hero class, and I agree with that assessment. Swordmaster was hardly at its best in Three Houses, largely because it was outclassed by Assassin, and Hero is somehow even worse than it was. This means it's outclassed by a class that is itself outclassed by another class. Ouch. Making matters worse, the one advantage it had over Swordmaster in past games is moot in Three Houses, as any class can use any weapon. On top of that, the main gain from such is also not meaningful in Three Houses, as throwing weapons are at their worst by far. As the cherry on top of the crap cake, Hero doesn't even have a good mastery skill to justify the hassle (loldefiantstrength).

Edited September 25, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[Alastor15243]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

On top of that, the main gain from such is also not meaningful in Three Houses, as throwing weapons are at their worst by far.

Unless you're also counting knives, I'd say they were way worse in Fates than in 3H.

[Shadow Mir]

9 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Unless you're also counting knives, I'd say they were way worse in Fates than in 3H.

I specifically meant hand axes and javelins. In general, I could still get use out of those in Fates even with the inability to double and other downsides. In 3H, on the other hand? Lol, good luck finding a situation where they can be even remotely useful, let alone better than anything else.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[samthedigital]

Hero is a pretty decent class in Engage because of Brave Assist; it's one of the few good class skills when combined with Dual Assist. I would be a little hesitant to say that it's anything more than average though because it probably falls off on a team composition that can deal sufficient damage, and it takes a while to come online. Most units would prefer other classes too if they want more combat utility.

[Whisky]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:05 AM, Alastor15243 said:

We're just ranking the class, right? Not the skills gained by being in it, unless they can't be transferred such as in Engage?

Yeah pretty much. There aren’t strict rules on it. You can rate the games however you think is fair, the important part is to explain your reasoning so that people will see if you’re including the skills or not. In my opinion, Warrior and Hero both of have pretty good mastery skills (Wrath and Defiant Str respectively). But it really doesn’t look good for the class when you’re waiting to master it so that you can switch into a better class as soon as possible. It’s also probably not even worth getting those skills because you’d have to spend too much time in those bad classes making it not worth it. 

5 hours ago, samthedigital said:

Hero is a pretty decent class in Engage because of Brave Assist; it's one of the few good class skills when combined with Dual Assist. I would be a little hesitant to say that it's anything more than average though because it probably falls off on a team composition that can deal sufficient damage, and it takes a while to come online. Most units would prefer other classes too if they want more combat utility.

Oh yeah Heroes seem pretty good in Engage. I think the classes seem to be better balanced in Engage than in most FE games.

[Randoman]

Quick question: are we considering Diamant a Mercenary/Hero for the purposes of this thread? I mean, I know he's technically a Lord/Successeur, but with those two classes essentially acting as Mercenaries/Heroes, with them using the same weapon types and them being foot units, I'm wanting to clarify.

[Whisky]

13 minutes ago, Randoman said:

Quick question: are we considering Diamant a Mercenary/Hero for the purposes of this thread? I mean, I know he's technically a Lord/Successeur, but with those two classes essentially acting as Mercenaries/Heroes, with them using the same weapon types and them being foot units, I'm wanting to clarify.

This is judging the class itself.  In most games characters and classes are a package deal so you have to look at the individuals, but in games like 3H and Engage where any unit can be any class, we’re just looking at Sword Fighter and Hero, not Lord/Successuer. Diamont can be considered as a Hero. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

Above Average

I'm gonna say Engage has the most impressive Hero class in the series. Backup means "infantry" isn't the dirty word it usually is, and Brave Assist makes this class extra good at that role. The stats are solid enough (get used to this).

Decent

GBA Heroes are hard to rate. On paper the class is kinda whatever: infantry, swordlock before promotion. However, the units in the class tend to be fairly good. Raven is a beast, Harken's an extremely solid prepromo, Gerik and Deke and Echidna are all pretty good too. Overall I'd give the class a pretty average score. Compared to the other two games, has worse axes but better swords, that probably ends up balancing.

Echoes also belongs in here. I'm not nearly as impressed be melee-locked infantry as some I guess, Dread Fighter finally gets the move and mage-slaying niche to be pretty cool but I'd consider it one of the weakest class lines before then, possibly ahead only of Soldier/Armour. That said it's never bad or anything, it is kinda fast at least.

A bit below average

Awakening and Fates: It doesn't really have a truly standout stat niche and infantry is a negative, but it's solid enough.

Terrible

Three Houses again! I've seen some people say innate Vantage gives this class a slight niche for late-joining characters, saving them a backtrack (early-joining ones just pick up Vantage from Mercenary, which I'm not giving credit for for this list). That's fair I guess. I still find it one of the most worthless classes. Nobody ever says "if only ____ could be a Hero" even though the class is gender-locked, that says much. In fact I've talked to multiple players who didn't even know this class is gender-locked.

[Shadow Mir]

20 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Terrible

Three Houses again! I've seen some people say innate Vantage gives this class a slight niche for late-joining characters, saving them a backtrack (early-joining ones just pick up Vantage from Mercenary, which I'm not giving credit for for this list). That's fair I guess. I still find it one of the most worthless classes. Nobody ever says "if only ____ could be a Hero" even though the class is gender-locked, that says much. In fact I've talked to multiple players who didn't even know this class is gender-locked.

Also, it's somehow worse than Swordmaster here, despite the fact that Hero was the better class almost every other game the two coexisted in. And said class is itself worse than another class (Assassin). That's gotta hurt, you must admit.

[Dark Holy Elf]

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, it's somehow worse than Swordmaster here, despite the fact that Hero was the better class almost every other game the two coexisted in.

Interesting thought. Out of games where both exist as separate, non-lord classes, I'd say Swordmaster is better in Binding Blade (30 crit is big, hand axes aren't that great) and Fates (equivalent 1-2 options, +10 evade/crit/+3 spd > +2 str/def), while Hero is better in Blazing Blade (hand axes), Sacred Stones (hand axes), and now Engage (Brave Assist and second weapon). I'm unsure about Awakening, that's axes vs. better stats (Swordmaster only loses str by 1, but wins speed by 3) and eventually getting Amatsu. I'm also unsure about Shadow Dragon/New Mystery, Swordmaster's better speed cap actually feels relevant in those games and the higher base sword rank helps offset the lack of axes. So overall I think they've been pretty competitive between the two.

[Punished Dayni]

Hmm, this is a neat concept for a thread series. Hadn't seen it before, so why not?

I do think much of this can and should be open to alteration, especially as I'm writing this late.

The Pinnacle of Heroism:

Engage: I'm speaking from the perspective of not finishing it yet, but Hero has some bone fides: Backup is a good unit type to have multiple of but it's not like other classes don't exist with it. This does get the great class skill Brave Assist, doubling it's number of assists is a positive it has over others that's unique to it. On top of that Lances and Axes are an option for the class for the first time ever so it has more flexibility. It even has units with good statlines as well. Would it be worth ranking it the pinnacle of Heroes? I think so, but that's kinda because there hasn't been a Hero class from Thracia onwards that quite stands above all others in the series as much before.

Good Class option:

Thracia: In another game with universal caps, it's a question of what Hero does and what the units in it do. Ignoring the stuff that swordmasters also have in this game, there's not too much to say on heroes barring axe access. Because dismounting prevents axe cavs from using them indoors, Mercenaries have that over them on top of the In terms of the units who have access to the class, . You also have a good few units who can get into it/are in it: Halvan is alright with Vantage and Osion has Vouge and Wrath so is busted, Machuya is a bit mixed but like Halvan has Vantage and gives Brighton a support boost., Ralph is solid utility who can work for any party either as filler for stamina or fallen units and Galzus is..... just, one of the most endgame ready Gotohs there is. I think the first game with Heroes with Swords and Axes sets a pretty good standard, even if it's called Mercenary.

SoV/Gaiden: Feel a little weird considering Dread Fighters here, but Oh well. And as a Hero-type unit they match SDatBoL/MotE in being sword locked. Unlike those Dread Fighter has the Res boost and Apotrope in SoV to make it a natural mage counter, 7 move is pretty good especially on maps with harsher terrain for cavs and the bases tend to make even Atlas viable (And his Strength makes him damm fine when he gets time). Pretty much more of a swordmaster imo, but if you want to count it here I suppose here's where it goes. It does lose ignoring backfires from the Shadow Sword in SoV, but that's probably the biggest drawback there. I'll admit on Hard I tend to feel like I don't get DFs so fast as to double enemy DFs, but that's rarely been a ruining moment for me.

MotE: Let's be honest, I don't think I'm the most reliable to discuss this game, but Swords are good in these two books, you get some interesting weapon options throughout and the units who can get to this class are at least useable, even scrubs like Samto. Universal caps don't exactly hurt but with growth boosters it's more likely your heroes will get more mileage.

It's decent enough:

BlaB/SS/BinB: These classes share the same statline, I think it's fair enough to lump them together. However, how useful a hero is varies from game to game and unit to unit here. For BinB, Dieck is a solid enough unit for early promotion who'll then drop off in the long run, Echidna wishes she had a few points more in Con and not such a bad map start and the less said about Ogier the better, while the class is more likely to deal with tougher opponents generally. Probably the most decent of the three here. As for BlaB, Raven (More HM shenanigans) and Harken are of course among the better units you have there and with the enemy quality combined with peak 1-2 physical muscling it's to the point Hero probably should be considered a good class there. And in SS, Gerik is a good choice for Hero, Garcia could maybe consider it unless you want him using bows and Ross would probably rather Berserker in most cases anyways, but the class has similar ranking to BlaB overall.

SD/MotE: All rounder that can serve fine outside of the harsher difficulties. This is a position I feel mixed about personally, as these are the games I've the most distance from and the units who have access to it have options to use one of the weapon types elsewhere in classes that might suit more. But I think it's worth asking questions about it here.

SDatBoL: So, like MotE in that the class is useable and gets most useful swords. But Mercurius is Marth locked, who is effectively just better than them here, Levin Swords are weaker and better crit options only exist in MotE. Devil Sword is 5 weight though.

Limited Utility:

Fates: Hero as a class is alright, but Sol and Axebreaker aren't skills all the units are clamoring for. In the context of Fates a pretty all round class including in the stats it gives allies in pairup, so I would argue kinda decent, but not stellar: it's not going to wall as effectively as something like General or outspeed as much as something like Swordmaster or even Bow Knight (Something that's true of DSFE as well), but with weapon ranks always starting on E that can be an issue as well.

Awakening: Why am I ranking it here? Well, Awakening isn't a game where all-rounders are the best choice. It does have decent skill access, in Sol and Axebreaker, but the point about how the end goal is to go for the most busted options the game has does leave it as kind of extraneous. Like, it will work fine outside Lunatic, but if we consider that there's better ways to go. It kinda just sits as worse off than Fates Heroes.

3H: Only outside of the bottom by virtue of potential builds with innate Vantage and being not all that inaccessible a class. Admittedly most of the time I don't really consider this an end class which Hero tends to be in the series, but even considering that plenty of units don't want it as an in between or for class mastery skills. Defiant Str could be useful.... if they hadn't locked it to below 25% HP, which does not sync up with the 50% of Vantage. The fact so few actually use the class (Can't think of a single boss in 3H that uses it) as enemies is telling, but I think there's lower the class has gone.

What are you doing here?:

Genealogy: Let's be honest with ourselves, in the context of Genealogy, it's bad enough infantry in this game gets enough flack, but on top of that it's just an inferior Swordmaster in this game. No axe access, worse Spd and Skl caps in exchange for +3 Mag where next to no options will get you near that cap for the units who can get this class and the Spd matters more here. Innate Pursuit is something both have and Adept is something Swordmaster gets on top of that. This class is bad and it being called Forrest in this game changes nothing about that.

Ike kinda steals the title in PoR and there's nothing quite like it there, so I don't want to put it in here. PoR would be limited as an infantry class with a busted but low chance mastery skill but it does get Axes and Ragnell for range in a EP-heavy game, so probably should sit in at least the lower end of decent while in RD it is a little worse off on paper but at least Wind sword exists before Ragnell comes back and the maps don't tend to make it rough for it before promotion. Alm, in comparison, I'd argue sits in the Good tier because the weapon he takes is Bow, in Gaiden/SoV. I shouldn't have to debate why Killer Bows are broken in SoV, but bow utility is useful outside that and he tends to be a strong and stocky enough unit that works fine in game. You can get Spd screwed and run into trouble there, but otherwise good unit with unique weapons and combat arts in SoV, with a great promotion base.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Punished Dayni

[Shadow Mir]

19 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Interesting thought. Out of games where both exist as separate, non-lord classes, I'd say Swordmaster is better in Binding Blade (30 crit is big, hand axes aren't that great) and Fates (equivalent 1-2 options, +10 evade/crit/+3 spd > +2 str/def), while Hero is better in Blazing Blade (hand axes), Sacred Stones (hand axes), and now Engage (Brave Assist and second weapon). I'm unsure about Awakening, that's axes vs. better stats (Swordmaster only loses str by 1, but wins speed by 3) and eventually getting Amatsu. I'm also unsure about Shadow Dragon/New Mystery, Swordmaster's better speed cap actually feels relevant in those games and the higher base sword rank helps offset the lack of axes. So overall I think they've been pretty competitive between the two.

I'd be more inclined to side with Hero being better in SD because having range is big when you cant rely on dodging anything that ain't Stonehoist, whereas all swordmaster has for range is the Levin Sword, which is a pathetic joke (lol 6 might).

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Here's how I'd place them, personally:

1. Echoes. Again, Dread Fighters are super mobile, with lots of sword options to choose from.

2. Shadow Dragon. Axes are good this time around, since Lance enemies predominate. Hand Axes, Hammers, and Poleaxes can all be forged to great effect. And their mobility isn't far behind mounted classes.

3. Awakening. They started giving Heroes Sol around this time, and that's always welcome. Armsthrift is nice to preserve rare weapons and expensive forges, too.

4. Fates. Heroes still have Sol here, but I don't think they're quite as good this time around, owing to the shift from EP to PP (and obnoxious debuffing enemies).

5. FE7. Raven is great on HHM, and Harken is just a champ. Linus is a decently threatening boss, too. Just a great combat class, all around.

6. Sacred Stones. Gerik is excellent, and Caellach, again, is a cool boss. It's probably as strong as in FE7, it's just competing with more classes this time around.

7. FE6. Dieck is a must-have for the earlygame (a mini-Jagen, perhaps?) who still holds up decently well. But Axes are just so much worse than in the other GBA games.

8. Genealogy. They lack Swordmaster's Adept, but have a little more Magic. Scathach is great at combat, but that's mostly due to Astra. Same with Chulainn and Luna. Fake Sword Twins are total trash.

9. Three Houses. The single-most forgettable class in the game. Nobody joins in it, and there are no important NPCs or enemies in it. Defiant Strength is great for Defiant builds, coupled with innate Vantage. Still, anyone who would consider ending up here (Balthus? Caspar?) is better served ending in War Master.

[Eltosian Kadath]

Time for another useful graphic for how I feel these roughly align, with a few thoughts below on the games individually. I will note that I feel the tiers are right, but would need more time to really order them within each tier. Also I am not using exactly the same metric for the tiers as the other two of these I have done so far (Sword Master, and Berserker), although it is close to the same as Swordmaster, but with the C tier here being more between Sword Master's C and D tier, and between Berserker's C and D tiers as well.

S Tier: One of the best classes in this game

Engage: The best backup class thanks to its class skill, which really pushes Chain Attacks from a boss only technique to a more generally useful one. I must admit, with how new this game is, I am not as confident as I would like with this placement, but it was one of the few classes which I would specifically reclass people to. Admittedly it is a class where HP gains are obnoxious, and there is a bit of fiddling with HP, but if you can get some Dual Assist+ onto these guys it can get kinda silly.

 

A Tier: A good class in this game

Echoes, Shadows of Valentia: Since we are counting Dread Fighter again, I might as well just copy and paste the entry I did last time. I might be ranking this one a bit low due to me never grinding my characters enough to get anyone through a full Dread Fighter loop before the post game, but even without that potential for super grinding, it still manages to be one of the better classes thanks to that mage killing utility in a game with warping witches.

Blazing Blade: With HHM bonuses Raven is a rather good unit, although a bit prone to killing his way into an early grave if you aren't careful. Also Harken is incredibly good, and both worth going out of your way to get him, but definitely worth using if you have him.

Binding Blade: Sword access is rather useful in Binding Blade, and while axe access on promotion isn't great, theoretically getting a chance to attack at 1-2 range is a small benefit at least. I like to think of Dieck as a poor man's Rutger, and while free armorslayer Oujay isn't anything to write home about, Echidna is fairly solid (if you end up on her route of the game), so some good units overall, but clearly a full tier below the amazing Sword Masters.

 

B Tier: An OK class in this game
Fates: I feel this is the epitome a class that isn't good, or bad, but merely OK in this game. I have nothing particularly bad to say, or good to say about the class, but more often then not I end up with one on the team anyway.

Thracia 776: A rather similar case to the Swordmaster overall really, but with one funky quirk, half the Heroes start in the basic Axe class, which complicates things a fair bit, as it means half the Heroes are good with axes, and half good with swords, and while a higher sword rank is definitely more useful (fun fact there are no A rank Axes in Thracia 776), one of those axe ones happens to be the arbitrarily blessed by Kaga Othin, so overall it is a bit of a wash. The only issue with the class is that mere combat isn't enough to really make units good in Thracia.

Awakening: There are some cheesy builds with armthrift, and Sol is alright, but this isn't one of the classes that can really break the game open, more an OK step in the right direction. I might be ranking this one a little low, but this is roughly how I feel about the class.

Shadow Dragon: While the Mercenary class has all the issues of a swordlocked class in SD, Hero is alright thanks to some axe access. Now you do get stuck in E rank hell for Axes on Hero, so you will have to find some way to grind axe rank before using its effective weaponry, and having Swords isn't a great benefit to the class as well. I would say it's stat spread is a bit more useful than the Berserkers, and it has the benefit of being one of the better classes for Sedgar (or was it Wolfe...one of the two is popular to put into Hero), but I don't think it quite gets enough to get into the next tier.

 

C Tier: An underwhelming class in this game

New Mystery of the Emblem: I am tempted to put this class in B tier, but I ended up dropping it to here the more I thought about it. The class isn't useless, but it is in an awkward position of not quite having the right stats or caps that make some infantry classes so good in the late game, being too middling in both to really shine anywhere, and they lack the movement that make the flyers and cavs so very good in the mid game...

Sacred Stones: None of the big names of Sacred Stones are Heroes, but at least they get access to handaxes eventually. Could definitely be worse.

Three Houses: Underwhelming is the first thing I thought of with this class in Three Houses, and I had a hard time remembering much else about it. In some ways that is worse than if it was just bad, as using blatantly bad classes as a goof can be kinda fun, but alas it falls into overwhelming mediocrity instead.

Genealogy: It is just a slightly worse, and rarer Sword Master. Given that I see this classes C tier as slightly lower than the C tier for Sword Master, this feels about right for the class.

[Whisky]

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Sacred Stones: None of the big names of Sacred Stones are Heroes, but at least they get access to handaxes eventually. Could definitely be worse.

Gerik?

[Eltosian Kadath]

11 hours ago, Whisky said:

Gerik?

Is Gerik one of the big names that comes up when people mention good units in Sacred Stones?

I find him to be in that awkward not good, but also not bad enough to be funny to use range.

[Whisky]

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Is Gerik one of the big names that comes up when people mention good units in Sacred Stones?

I find him to be in that awkward not good, but also not bad enough to be funny to use range.

Great could be arguable depending on metrics but I thought every one considered him good. If people don't consider him one of the good units, then I'd argue that they should.

He's really strong, fast, and tanky, and has 1-2 range. He's basically uncontested as your strongest combat unit other than Seth and maybe Saleh, at least for a while. He can 1RKO enemies by insta-promoting that most of your other units can't reasonably kill with training like Gargoyles and Baels, and is just generally stronger, faster, and tankier thand other units. Insta-promoted Gerik has 15 Str and Spd. He also donesn't lose AS from Steel Axes, so he can have a much higher combination of Atk and AS than your other non-Seth units.

[Eltosian Kadath]

21 hours ago, Whisky said:

 

He's really strong, fast, and tanky, and has 1-2 range. He's basically uncontested as your strongest combat unit other than Seth and maybe Saleh, at least for a while. He can 1RKO enemies by insta-promoting that most of your other units can't reasonably kill with training like Gargoyles and Baels, and is just generally stronger, faster, and tankier thand other units. Insta-promoted Gerik has 15 Str and Spd. He also donesn't lose AS from Steel Axes, so he can have a much higher combination of Atk and AS than your other non-Seth units.

I think I see where our discrepancy lies, as it sounds like you are talking about Eirika's route, and I am thinking about Ephraim's route, where he comes after units like Cormag, Dozla, and Duessel (not to mention the units that come before the route split), and at the same level as his earlier Eirika mode arrival, and you don't run into those Gargoyles and Baels with him until the end of the game where you can go all out with super weapons, and warp staff use anyway.

Hmmm... I guess I can split the difference between the two routes, and move Sacred Stones Heroes up to more of a B rank then.

[Whisky]

7 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I think I see where our discrepancy lies, as it sounds like you are talking about Eirika's route, and I am thinking about Ephraim's route, where he comes after units like Cormag, Dozla, and Duessel (not to mention the units that come before the route split), and at the same level as his earlier Eirika mode arrival, and you don't run into those Gargoyles and Baels with him until the end of the game where you can go all out with super weapons, and warp staff use anyway.

Hmmm... I guess I can split the difference between the two routes, and move Sacred Stones Heroes up to more of a B rank then.

Yeah good points, he’s definitely not as good on Ephraim’s route.

I think he’s better than Dozla though. Insta-promoted Gerik has 15 Str and 15 Spd. Base Dozla has 16 Str and 9 Spd. Dozla is a bit tankier but Gerik is pretty durable too. Dozla just seems too slow.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Whisky

[Dark Holy Elf]

Dozla I've always considered quite bad, probably the worst promoted unit in SS actually. 9 spd results in his offence being relatively poor and he also has some of the lowest accuracy in the cast despite being promoted (and this is a game that I, at least, played primarily on a cart without savestates or divine pulse so accuracy is more valuable here than in most recent FEs). His axe rank is also low enough that he's not getting Garm any time soon, compared to Duessel or even Garcia. Gerik is very obviously better than him, even on Ephraim's route. Dozla's got nice HP at least but that's about it.

As for Gerik himself I don't think he's as impressive as the Blazing Heroes but he's certainly pretty solid.

[Shadow Mir]

Speaking of, I'd consider this one to be B tier in both Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones, as the units with it are overall excellent. They're C tier in Binding Blade, because axe access is not as much of a boon there.

15 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I think I see where our discrepancy lies, as it sounds like you are talking about Eirika's route, and I am thinking about Ephraim's route, where he comes after units like Cormag, Dozla, and Duessel (not to mention the units that come before the route split), and at the same level as his earlier Eirika mode arrival, and you don't run into those Gargoyles and Baels with him until the end of the game where you can go all out with super weapons, and warp staff use anyway.

Hmmm... I guess I can split the difference between the two routes, and move Sacred Stones Heroes up to more of a B rank then.

I'd agree that Gerik is worse on Ephraim route relative to Eirika route, but worse than Dozla? That's a stretch, considering that Dozla is sloooow; 9 speed base is terrible, even by Sacred Stones standards.

[ping]

I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but Axes in BinBla are quite excellent as a secondary weapon type. Enemy lance users become more and more common past the Western Isles, and here's some weapon stats with weapon triangle vs. them factored in:

• Iron Sword: 4 Mt, 75 hit
• Iron Axe: 9 Mt, 75 hit
• Steel Sword: 7 Mt, 60 hit
• Killing Edge: 6 Mt, 70 hit
• Hand Axe: 8 Mt, 60 hit
• Steel Axe: 12 Mt, 60 hit
• Silver Sword: 12 Mt, 65 hit

Just to reiterate: The Steel Axe, as famously bad as it is in BinBla, is quite competitive with a Silver Sword when facing enemy cavaliers or wyverns. Deke only loses a single point of Spd using it, so as long as that doesn't make the difference between doubling or not, he trades -5 hit for +2 Def and +8 Avo. Of course, the basic Iron Axe is going to be a better option most of the time, but the bloody Steel Axe being a situationally decent option should demostrate that the old "AXES BAAAAAD" narrative for this game is very inaccurate (har har).

I still don't think that promoted Dieck is amazing, but that's due to his growths being a bit worse than average for unpromoted units, not because the Hero promotion is disappointing. And even then, his raw stats at 20/1 are very similar to Allen's, but with a significant Skl lead (+5.4) - it's just that Allen can make up for that with full weapon triangle control and more mobility+Canter, and Dieck doesn't really bring anything exceptional to the table at this stage of the game. But I do think that getting axes is more than just a small perk of his promotion.

For the rankings, I think I would put all the GBA games in high B, maybe low A tier. The only bad mercenary in those games is Oujay - and honestly, he's quite redeemable as far as bad units go, it's just that he's stuck between good-at-base units before him and a more rewarding training project in HM!Fir joining shortly after him - but while the other representatives are all quite good, none of them really challenge the top spots on their respective games' tier lists.

Edited March 23, 2023 by ping