Would a weapon that negates the weapon triangle be viable?

[indigoasis]

Had a passing thought, and was curious what others might think.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, hypothetically, the next new Fire Emblem game keeps the weapon triangle, and as a new entry, it also introduces a handful of new weapons. Of these new weapons, there are weapons with a brand new effect that completely negate the weapon triangle. No advantages, but no disadvantages either. These aren't Reaver weapons (which are way cooler as a concept anyway), but rather a weapon type that serves to even the playing field as much as possible.

We've seen games that work without the WT, like Shadows of Valentia and Three Houses for more recent examples, but they're balanced around the WT not existing (TH does include Breaker skills, for what that's worth). I can't really speak for how WT negation might be balanced in a game where it exists, but how do you think it would affect gameplay? Would WT negation weapons work better as an early-game or late-game addition, assuming that their stats are what you'd expect from their corresponding ranking (C, B, A, S, etc.)? Would they even be viable in the first place, or would they break the game in half?

[Armchair General]

Well, we're already seeing bits and pieces of this in Engage with how martial arts work in relation to everything else. Of course, the main drawback is that you're twice as likely to get screwed over during the level ups and their damage output is essentially less than half than most of the cast. Plus, they do an better job at healing than punching people.

 

But creating an outlier to the system would probably wind up as something that's moderately weak, but it might wind up being superfluous to most swords in terms of accuracy and power.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I'd say it depends on how significant the effects of the weapon triangle are in this hypothetical game. The more impactful the triangle, the more useful this proposed weapon type would be. Even if it means losing out on WTA, avoiding WTD is a significant boon. With careful play, even units locked to a single weapon type could see themselves avoid ever having to face WTD.

Personally, though, I'd just rather see more Reaver-type weapons. "Reversing the triangle" is always gonna be more impactful than "negating it". Maybe we could see more classes and skills that play with the triangle, like how Engage effectively gives Armors immunity to WTD. Or, what if one unit had Tempest as a personal skill (like Boyd in Path of Radiance), but in this case, doubling weapon triangle effects? Conversely, Serenity (like Rhys had) could negate the triangle entirely. Maybe attach the skills to equippable Rings, too, so a unit could choose when to enhance - or negate - the Triangle's effect.

[indigoasis]

23 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Or, what if one unit had Tempest as a personal skill (like Boyd in Path of Radiance), but in this case, doubling weapon triangle effects? Conversely, Serenity (like Rhys had) could negate the triangle entirely. Maybe attach the skills to equippable Rings, too, so a unit could choose when to enhance - or negate - the Triangle's effect.

I think this would be a good alternative. Skills are generally harder to come by compared to weapons, and having something to boost or negate a core game mechanic would probably make it very valuable. I think it might also be more flexible for a single unit to do whatever they want rather than giving multiple units what is essentially the same weapon and removing what niches they might have. I think you might've hit the jackpot there.

[AnonymousSpeed]

They kinda have these- they're called tomes.

Making it a skill works a lot better, in my personal opinion. I don't know how to articulate it at the moment, but the fact that it's different to use a silver axe sometimes (changing its intrinsic properties) seems more interesting than something which is just...the same.

I'm sorry if the first part came off as snarky, but it gets the point across, I think.

[Jotari]

Would it be viable? Well sure, if it has better stats than an Iron Sword then I'd bring it with me. The question is though, under what circumstances would I bring it in comparison to other weapons? Why would I need a unit to have a null triangle weapon? The answer would be for a mono weapon user like a sword master, and so they don't face WTD. In which case, well, I'd probably rather a Reaver weapon. Which, apart from a brief appearance in Warriors, has remained a GBA exclusive concept. Which is a bit of a shame as it's a neat idea. If there's some kind of null Weapon Triangle weapon then I'd make it an early game weapon, one weapon rank lower than Reaver weapons which can be obtained later and are more powerful.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

20 hours ago, Jotari said:

Which, apart from a brief appearance in Warriors, has remained a GBA exclusive concept. Which is a bit of a shame as it's a neat idea

Fates gave us the "Dual Yumi", "Calamity Gate", and other Reaver-type weapons. Even if they lacked the "Reaver" naming. Hell, the Dual Katana even made it into Emblem Corrin's kit.

Anyway, they were cool there. Possibly the best they've ever been, since they're not limited to a paltry 15 uses. Also because the triangle is everywhere, all of a sudden.

[indigoasis]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:04 AM, Jotari said:

If there's some kind of null Weapon Triangle weapon then I'd make it an early game weapon, one weapon rank lower than Reaver weapons which can be obtained later and are more powerful.

I can agree with that. I think it could make for a good training weapon of sorts to help with harder fights that you don't have good counters for quite yet. Besides, by endgame, you'd probably have units that are strong enough that the WT would be irrelevant anyway.

[Jotari]

22 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Fates gave us the "Dual Yumi", "Calamity Gate", and other Reaver-type weapons. Even if they lacked the "Reaver" naming. Hell, the Dual Katana even made it into Emblem Corrin's kit.

Anyway, they were cool there. Possibly the best they've ever been, since they're not limited to a paltry 15 uses. Also because the triangle is everywhere, all of a sudden.

This is true, but the Triangle being everywhere was something I didn't like about the game that made it slip my mind (even though, as you've said, Corrin has used it just as recently as Engage).