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A brief look at Fire Emblem's history with zombies


Jotari
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They never use the z word, but Fire Emblem has had a long history with zombies and has used them in multiple different ways. They've ranged from the weakest normal enemies in the game to the strongest. They aren't the first thing you think of when you think Fire Emblem, but the sheer gameplay utility they can offer by having random enemies to fight in a chapter without relying on the realistic logistics of employing an army has made them a staple.

Their first appearance dates back to the second game in the series. When Celica steps out of Norivs Monastery she's immediately beset by the legions of the undead. There's little explanation for this, there's no necromancer or any will behind them. It's all just wrapped up in Duma's evil infecting the land. It's actually rather strange its not a more common feature, especially as you go deeper into Rigel. This game also gave us our first zombie dragons which are a more memorable and consistent part of the game.

The next appearance of zombies is a rather strange one given the genre over all. Its the Deadlords of Jugdral. These are the most elite of the elite mooks of the enemies you face, which is a bit contrary to how zombies are typically depicted. Some of them could even be your own party members in Thracia.

Are next apoearsncr of zombies is in Sacred Stones, which basically rehashed Gaiden in both having basic zombies and powerful zombie dragons. We also, for the first time, see how fighting a zombie could affect someone in a narrative context (this was brushed over in Jugdral) with Myrrh fighting her zombified father Morva.

The next appearance of zombies in the series is probably the most forgettable appearance; Radiant Dawn. What's really weird about theae ones is that you don't actually fight them. It's a purely narrative situation, though one driven, ultimately, by gameplay design. While your main army takes on the fibak fuve chapters if the game, all the characters you've benched fight iff the hoards if of the undead. We never really see how that fight goes, but everyone survives so they can't be that strong. The plot itself, however, suggests Ashera could just continually revive them making fighting them head on a fruitless task.

Awakening puts zombies at the forefront in a way they mever were before. Sacred Stones sumplemented its zombies with other monster types, but Aakening makes them the (almost) sole monsters of the game and, unlike Gaiden and Sacred Stones, gives them access to regular classes instead of a uniqie entombed class fighting like classic zombies. This makes the return of the deadlords a pretty natural fit. We also get, possibly, our first zombie playable character in the form of Walhart, it's a bit ambiguous.

Fates I'm not sure deserves  a mention. It plays the whole fighring revived loved ones card but they kind of work more like ghosts than zombies. Faceless are also a thing one might or might not count as related. In either case, Fates was following on Awakening's stylings in its own way.

We then had Shadows of Valentia which redid Gaiden's zombies, but also in a surprise twist brought back Awakening's specific brand of zombies and actually provided an explanation for them involving insects more remeniscent of a The Mummy movie.

Thinking on the series Three Houses  doesn't look like it had zombies, demonic monsster transformations was its excuse for powerful enemies,  but then there's the revival of Nemesis and his ten elites. But this is the Resident Evil style zombies wrapped up in science in its styling with a test tube looking tank. One could even think he isn't a zombie at all and he's just survived through advanced medical technology,  though it begs belief that none of the elites died in combat in their own time.

And that brings us to Engage which I won't say much on other than its the most extensive use of zombies in the series so far, both in terms of gameplay and narrative.

Well, anyway, thats just a look at the various ways Fire Emblem has handled zombies. I think people might be surprised to realize how much Fire Emblem has explored the concept and for so many different reasons. What do you think about zombies as enemies to fight and how Fire Emblem has used them?

Edited by Jotari
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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

The next appearance of zombies is a rather strange one given the genre over all. Its the Deadlords of Jugdral. These are the most elite of the elite mooks of the enemies you face, which is a bit contrary to how zombies are typically depicted. Some of them could even be your own party members in Thracia.

If you are counting the Dead Lords, you should also probably include the Morphs Nergal made of deceased people in FE7's end game. You could also see the interactions of Nino, and Legault, as potentially the first instance of

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

 how fighting a zombie could affect someone in a narrative context

as you put it.

 

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30 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

If you are counting the Dead Lords, you should also probably include the Morphs Nergal made of deceased people in FE7's end game. You could also see the interactions of Nino, and Legault, as potentially the first instance of

It's not quite the same.

Thracia stablished the Deadlords were definitely undead. Meanwhile, Morphs are more like Golems. Yes, Quintessence is used to create them, and this can lead to the Morphs having the shape of the people the Quintessence belonged to, but strictly speaking, it does not fulfill the modern usage textbook definition of Zombie (as Zombie originally referred to a different thing). That is, a reanimated corpse.

Perhaps in spirit, but not to the letter.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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5 hours ago, Jotari said:

When Mila steos out of Norivs Monastery she's immediately beset by the legions of the undead.

Wait, we get to play as an actual goddess?

 

 

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Faceless are also a thing one might or might not count as related

Faceless are an different breed of monsters as far as I'm concerned.

 

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

One could even think he isn't a zombie at all and he's just survived through advanced medical technology, 

I would say that he's cloned, but that wouldn't explain why he's looks like an walking corspe and 10 Elites are just faceless generics

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2 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Wait, we get to play as an actual goddess?

........ >.> I'm going to edit the op and make you look like a fool, when in truth I was the foolish one.

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7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Their first appearance dates back to the second game in the series. When Celica steps out of Norivs Monastery she's immediately beset by the legions of the undead. There's little explanation for this, there's no necromancer or any will behind them. It's all just wrapped up in Duma's evil infecting the land. It's actually rather strange its not a more common feature, especially as you go deeper into Rigel. This game also gave us our first zombie dragons which are a more memorable and consistent part of the game.

Definitely an interesting choice by Kaga, to introduce zombies and monsters when the first game had none. Probably played into Gaiden's reputation as a "Black Genny"... er, "Black Sheep", among the early games. 

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Are next apoearsncr of zombies is in Sacred Stones, which basically rehashed Gaiden in both having basic zombies and powerful zombie dragons. We also, for the first time, see how fighting a zombie could affect someone in a narrative context (this was brushed over in Jugdral) with Myrrh fighting her zolbified father Morva.

Darling... don't forget about Monica! She has no gameplay presence, so it's not clear whether she's a Revenant, or more akin to a Morph. All we know is, her vocabulary is limited, and she inspires revulsion in all aside from Orson.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

The next appearance of zombies in the series is probably the most forgettable appearance; Radiant Dawn. What's really weird about theae ones is that you don't actually fight them. It's a purely narrative situation, though one driven, ultimately, by gameplay design. While your main army takes on the fibak fuve chapters if the game, all the characters you've benched fight iff the hoards if of the undead. We never really see how that fight goes, but everyone survives so they can't be that strong. The plot itself, however, suggests Ashera could just continually revive them making fighting them head on a fruitless task.

Those are just the Disciples of Order again. Ashera "brought them back" from being petrified, so she can do the same to those felled on the battlefield.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Awakening puts zombies at the forefront in a way they mever were before. Sacred Stones sumplemented its zombies with other monster types, but Aakening makes them the (almost) sole monsters of the game and, unlike Gaiden and Sacred Stones, gives them access to regular classes instead of a uniqie entombed class fighting like classic zombies. This makes the return of the deadlords a pretty natural fit. We also get, possibly, our first zombie playable character in the form of Walhart, it's a bit ambiguous.

Oh.

Oh no.

F!Robin can S-rank Walhart.

And make M!Morgan as a result.

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13 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Those are just the Disciples of Order again. Ashera "brought them back" from being petrified, so she can do the same to those felled on the battlefield.

No, it is specified that Ashera is "only bringing the flesh back". As in, they're just reanimated bodies. So they sorta count as Zombies.

13 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Oh.

Oh no.

F!Robin can S-rank Walhart.

And make M!Morgan as a result.

I mean, yes, if the body can still work again, then...

Either way, I don't quite think Walhart's a Risen. People take his lines about his life and heart too literal when they can just be metaphorical.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Myrrh fighting her zolbified father Morva

I love the part of Sacred Stones where Myrrh says "it's zolbin' time!" and zolbs all over those dudes.

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Morphs are more like Golems. Yes, Quintessence is used to create them, and this can lead to the Morphs having the shape of the people the Quintessence belonged to

I am not aware of the canonical status of this. I had assumed you could use "generic" quintessence to create lookalikes of the deceased.

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4 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I am not aware of the canonical status of this. I had assumed you could use "generic" quintessence to create lookalikes of the deceased.

It's hard to say. The only "evidence" I can base this theory on is that the lookalike Morphs smile before dying, which... who knows what exactly means.

Outside that, yes, it's more exactly to say Quintessence is the metaphysical clay that Nergal sculps Morphs out of. Their appearance and behavior is to his freedom of choice.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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9 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

Thracia stablished the Deadlords were definitely undead. Meanwhile, Morphs are more like Golems. Yes, Quintessence is used to create them, and this can lead to the Morphs having the shape of the people the Quintessence belonged to, but strictly speaking, it does not fulfill the modern usage textbook definition of Zombie (as Zombie originally referred to a different thing). That is, a reanimated corpse.

Perhaps in spirit, but not to the letter.

If letter matter this much, a lot more of the Fire Emblem entries would not be close enough to count. As an example, Engage's corrupted don't need existent bodies for revival (see the eaten alive, and then revived as corrupted Hyacinth), hence not reanimated corpse, merely constructs made of, and in the shape of corpses. Also we aren't told the Dead Lords are undead, only that they are created, and can look like people who have died, which applies to Morphs as well. Even denying the Morphs are a form of undead comes across as pedantic at best, and an outright lie at worst, as we know they are created with the quintessence of the dead.

 

1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I am not aware of the canonical status of this. I had assumed you could use "generic" quintessence to create lookalikes of the deceased.

The canon is a bit mixed on that:

Quote

 

Nergal:
“These morphs you see before you, I’ve given them the abilities and appearances of the people whose essences I used to craft them. Do you understand? I have power. The power to perform miracles. Oh, yes… Hector. Your brother, Uther, the marquess of Ostia? He’s dead, is he not?”

Hector:
“How–“

Nergal:
“If you would like, I could make a morph of your brother. It would be well suited for a fragile human such as you. Perhaps a heartless puppet could ease the longing in your soul.”

Nergal both implies the person whose quintessence was used in its creation is important, and that he could make one of someone he probably did not drain the quintessence of.

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Imagine Zombies as a specific enemy class that can only be killed by destruction of the brain. Critical hits necessary. Dropping their HP to 0 puts them down, but only for a turn before they come back with 1. Naturally you would make crits easier to perform on them beyond just dropping their Luck to 0, since your units would know in-universe to go for the head. Specific skills, weapons, combat arts for dealing with these guys. Then introduce a Nemesis-esque creature in an escape chapter that can't be put down.

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2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

If letter matter this much, a lot more of the Fire Emblem entries would not be close enough to count. As an example, Engage's corrupted don't need existent bodies for revival (see the eaten alive, and then revived as corrupted Hyacinth), hence not reanimated corpse, merely constructs made of, and in the shape of corpses.

Hyacinth is the only plausible example of that and even then we can't really dismiss the possibility Sombron just spat him out. Furthermore we do see the direct creation of a Corrupted and it uses the same body.

2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Also we aren't told the Dead Lords are undead,

Sure we are. It's literally their name.

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Hyacinth is the only plausible example of that and even then we can't really dismiss the possibility Sombron just spat him out. Furthermore we do see the direct creation of a Corrupted and it uses the same body.

The game certainly makes the distinction between Corrupted and Fabrications (which are reminiscent of Morphs in that sense, though instead of Quintessence they're created out of stuff like rocks and branches), and that Fell and Divines can do one but not the other. So neither of Sombron nor Veyle are capable of making up a body for Corrupted Hyacinth, so it has to be his actual body.

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17 hours ago, Jotari said:

What do you think about zombies as enemies to fight and how Fire Emblem has used them?

Putting aside the ease of use in terms development resource needed to make them (no need to design army of nations, you can use this everywhere like in engage), narratively it makes the game kids-friendly.. mostly

Because you arent killing "people" you are beating up something thats not considered a living thing, theres no moral implications whatsoever in this. The numbers are also easy to ignore because they can appear as much as possible, or as little as possible without any implication or deep reasons at all. Unlike actual army that 

But i get the impression that instead of modern zombies thats popular on western media, FE case is closer to chinese zombies from aclassic-medieval era story in the form of "jiangshi". Altho the original term refer something to a rigid moving corpse,  jiangshi in many stories is capable of doing combat maneuver. Hence these zombies using normal human classes for gameplay is on the table. I dont know many western zombie that can behave like that. Also this one is made through supranatural power, not some science gone wrong.

 

Edited by joevar
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3 minutes ago, joevar said:

But i get the impression that instead of modern zombies thats popular on western media, FE case is closer to chinese aclassic-medieval era in the form of "jiangshi". Altho the original term refer something to a rigid moving corpse,  jiangshi in many stories is capable of doing combat maneuver. Hence these zombies using normal human classes for gameplay is on the table. I dont know any western zombie that can behave like that. Also this one is made through supranatural power, not some science gone wrong.

The "original" zombies, as in, Voodoo Zombies, were also like that. Magic being used to revive a corpse, and they basically acted "normal", if being essentially thralls of whoever reanimated them. Not the "mindless brain-eating" kind depicted in popular media nowadays. You have Night of the Living Dead to thank for that.

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3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The "original" zombies, as in, Voodoo Zombies, were also like that. Magic being used to revive a corpse, and they basically acted "normal", if being essentially thralls of whoever reanimated them. Not the "mindless brain-eating" kind depicted in popular media nowadays. You have Night of the Living Dead to thank for that.

oo.. guess thats another trivia for me. but basically, FE use those older form of zombies. not the western modern zombies for most FE that features it. 

--------------------------------------------

personally i dont like it when they are central part of the game, since Engage features how this "zombies" just like a cheap cop-out to an army. but at the other hand, Engage also feature Hyacinth that you can put against Ivy, thats actually a good use of zombies in terms of narrative gameplay.

they really love to either ruin a good feature with bad execution, or bad feature with occasional good execution/idea

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One thing we haven't seen is an enemy directly reviving the dead during the chapter itself. Like, say, you have a bunch of green units you have to save, but every one you don't save immediately gets converted into an enemy. It'd also be cool if they pulled the Deadlord schitck with your playable characters actively during battle. Lose your draco knight and bam, you're immediately fighting them too. Maybe a game that implements an actual Iron Man mode would have the motivation to do something like that.

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22 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I love the part of Sacred Stones where Myrrh says "it's zolbin' time!" and zolbs all over those dudes.

On 3/17/2023 at 10:39 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

And everyone in the Darkling Woods clapped!

On 3/17/2023 at 1:47 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

No, it is specified that Ashera is "only bringing the flesh back". As in, they're just reanimated bodies. So they sorta count as Zombies.

On 3/17/2023 at 1:34 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Oh yeah, now I remember something like that. I wonder why Ashera's original revival - reverting them from petrified forms - retained the minds and personalities of its recipients? At least it did for the Senators. Impossible to say for bosses like Yuma and Catalena.

22 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Outside that, yes, it's more exactly to say Quintessence is the metaphysical clay that Nergal sculps Morphs out of. Their appearance and behavior is to his freedom of choice.

Wait, does Quintessence have material existence? I had thought it was an energy force, associated with life and animation. When someone's Quintessence is drained, they are weakened or killed, but I don't believe that anything physical of the body is lost. Likewise, my understanding was that Quintessence was used to give Morphs life - the ability to walk, talk, and fight - not to generate their body from the ground-up.

20 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Imagine Zombies as a specific enemy class that can only be killed by destruction of the brain. Critical hits necessary. Dropping their HP to 0 puts them down, but only for a turn before they come back with 1. Naturally you would make crits easier to perform on them beyond just dropping their Luck to 0, since your units would know in-universe to go for the head. Specific skills, weapons, combat arts for dealing with these guys. Then introduce a Nemesis-esque creature in an escape chapter that can't be put down.

Ooh, that would be cool. Stuff like the "Slayer" skill, and the Blessed weapons, could receive a meaty crit boost against Undead opponents. Plus, it means more off-the-wall critical animations. This could also be used to create situations where NPCs, or new recruits, are beleaguered by a bunch of Zombies. They have the stats and weapons to take them down, but not to keep them down. So the player's army needs to rush to their rescue.

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

One thing we haven't seen is an enemy directly reviving the dead during the chapter itself. Like, say, you have a bunch of green units you have to save, but every one you don't save immediately gets converted into an enemy. It'd also be cool if they pulled the Deadlord schitck with your playable characters actively during battle. Lose your draco knight and bam, you're immediately fighting them too. Maybe a game that implements an actual Iron Man mode would have the motivation to do something like that.

Crazy idea, but if Summoners make a return, give them the ability to bring back your own deceased units, rather than generic "Phantoms". Just for the duration of a given map, and without the events or supports they'd normally offer. No EXP or leveling up, either. But they could still fight on your army's behalf again.

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11 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Oh yeah, now I remember something like that. I wonder why Ashera's original revival - reverting them from petrified forms - retained the minds and personalities of its recipients? At least it did for the Senators. Impossible to say for bosses like Yuma and Catalena.

Because it was just a petrification-unpetrification process. They were still alive, just turned to stone. Only when she saw that Yune's Chosen (TM) had managed to reach the Tower of Guidance did she thought to try to delay them further by reanimating the corpses.

11 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Wait, does Quintessence have material existence? I had thought it was an energy force, associated with life and animation. When someone's Quintessence is drained, they are weakened or killed, but I don't believe that anything physical of the body is lost. Likewise, my understanding was that Quintessence was used to give Morphs life - the ability to walk, talk, and fight - not to generate their body from the ground-up.

I guess it's due to how it's talked about Nergal using Quintessence to make the bodies. But yes, it's possible it's simply the "fuel" to make the bodies work. I believe his Original Characters Do Not Steal are stated to not have Quintessence to drain, but it's hard to say if it means that what Quintessence was used to power them up can't be recycled or... something.

I can't wait for Nergal Electric Power Company to use grandpa's Quintessence to light up our lightning bulbs.

 

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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  • 1 month later...
18 hours ago, Mizerous said:

Kinda tired of this trope it would be nice to get something more unique like a homunculus or some kind of Frankenstein type.

To be honest, Morphs in FE7 are kinda like that. And then there's Kishuna.

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On 3/17/2023 at 11:27 PM, Jotari said:

Hyacinth is the only plausible example of that and even then we can't really dismiss the possibility Sombron just spat him out. Furthermore we do see the direct creation of a Corrupted and it uses the same body.

I was also under the impression that Abyme was some kind of corrupted. Felt very set-up by Hyacinth's previous appearance, which I think is very explicitly a recreation nearly identical to the real thing except mind-controlled. He wasn't spat out, since Corrupted Hyacinth was created by Veyle, not Sombron.

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3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I was also under the impression that Abyme was some kind of corrupted. Felt very set-up by Hyacinth's previous appearance, which I think is very explicitly a recreation nearly identical to the real thing except mind-controlled. He wasn't spat out, since Corrupted Hyacinth was created by Veyle, not Sombron.

I'd think that, since Corrupted require the corpse, then he was indeed "spat out" (whether literal or metaphorically), otherwise Veyle couldn't bring him back.

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If Corrupted don't require corpses to be made then it really questions why Sombron went and killed most of the people in Elyusia, thus crippling his own war capabilities. If Corrupted can just be magiced up out of nowhere then that's a ridiculously petty evil thing to do, as opposed to a somewhat pragmatic evil thing to do. At the very least Hyacinth was made up of raw materials from other people and converting everything that breathed into a corpse was needed just to have the matter to work with.

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/18/2023 at 5:36 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

Because it was just a petrification-unpetrification process. They were still alive, just turned to stone. Only when she saw that Yune's Chosen (TM) had managed to reach the Tower of Guidance did she thought to try to delay them further by reanimating the corpses.

There was a thread, a little while ago, about Lekain mentioning that he'd been "brought back to life" by the Goddess. That's why I was thinking of the petrification as a kind of death. But the "depetrification" appears to be different from the latter "resurrection", even if both are a sort of "reanimation".

On 3/18/2023 at 5:36 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

I guess it's due to how it's talked about Nergal using Quintessence to make the bodies. But yes, it's possible it's simply the "fuel" to make the bodies work. I believe his Original Characters Do Not Steal are stated to not have Quintessence to drain, but it's hard to say if it means that what Quintessence was used to power them up can't be recycled or... something.

Haven't played FE7 in a hot second, so I could see the intent going either way. But yeah, in "Night of Farewells":

Spoiler

Sonia:
“……Lea — Leave me… …accursed puppet… Lord Nergal… …Aah…help…me.”

Limstella:
“Puppets have no essence to harvest. You no longer have any use to Lord Nergal…”

So, Morphs don't have Quintessence, but Quintessence is necessary to create them. Quintessence can be drawn from animals, as well as humans, but we don't know if it can be used to create anything other than Morphs. All known Morphs are either novel creations (i.e. Denning), or fascimiles of other people (i.e. the Endgame minibosses), but don't appear to actually use their corpses:

Spoiler

Eliwood:
“That’s… Marquess Laus! And… Those are Black Fang members. What have you done, Nergal?!”

Nergal:
“These morphs you see before you, I’ve given them the abilities and appearances of the people whose essences I used to craft them. Well, that’s not entirely true. I’ve made them far more powerful.

As such, it's not clear whether Quintessence can reanimate a deceased corpse. Although, I imagine it could. It certainly seems like it would be less intensive than making living bodies from scratch.

That said, the wording at least suggests that Nergal is using Quintessence to build Morphs from the ground up. In that context, their bodies were made via a one-way "quintessence to matter" transfornation. Either quintessence isn't required to animate them; or, it was required at the start, but was "used up" very quickly; or, it's actually there, but in such a small quantity as to not be worth the trouble of harvesting.

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