My Personal Fire Emblem Engage Ironman Tier List (SPOILERS)

[Mavi251]

I HAVE REVIVED. Hello everyone. I'm here to give some thoughts on how I feel Engage's cast fair in an Ironman setting. The game is still fairly fresh so I'm so in a year or two I'm sure my thoughts will have evolved. That said, feel free to agree or disagree on anything here. It's always good to get some additional view points. It should go without saying but DO NOT READ FURTHER if you haven't completed the game and want to remain unspoiled. 

Tier List Assumptions: 

1) You are playing on Maddening Classic. 

2) No DLC.

3) No Heroes bonus. 

4) Try to complete maps in 15 turns or less. (Many can be completed in less than 10, some even in 1-3 turns. Others may take longer, like Chapter 17). 

5) Recruit everyone. 

6) Try to keep everyone alive. 

7) You've completed Engage Maddening at least 2-3 times and are familiar with the maps, reinforcements, strategies, etc. 

8) Characters are ranked top to bottom, left to right. 

9) Obtaining all of the chests/items/villages is nice but not required. 

10) These are my thoughts prior to the addition of the Ancient Well. Everyone can benefit heavily from more SP so I just consider it a wash for all units. 

11) Edit: The game is played on Fixed Growths without the Draconic Time Crystal.*

Rankings
S: You should always use them
A: They're strong with some attention/investment.
B: Good but not mind-blowing. 
C: Kind of mid but serviceable. 
D: Not worth training up beyond their initial usefulness. 
F: Using them long term actively hurts you. 

S-Tier

Seadall: He is a dancer, that alone places him in the S tier by default. His passive healing skill is cool too but not critical. It can be good to support martial masters.

Chloe: The obligatory early game flier. She has strong offense in the early game with forged weapons (Sigurd!Steel Lance + 3 /  Représailles +1/2). She's easily the most important early promote in the game. She's one of the few units that can gain enough speed to double even the faster enemies like Wolf Knights, Griffins, and Sword Users under the right circumstances. The overkill speed also indirectly improves her otherwise mediocre durability as she'll be fast enough to avoid getting doubled by anything. Her personal skill is also one of the best in the game, +2 true damage is useful, especially when paired with Alear's divinely inspiring. She also wrecks shop mid-late game with Sieglinde. 

Kagetsu: I think the community fawns over Kagetsu enough as is so I'll keep it brief. He starts with amazing stats; likely the highest on your entire roster when he joins. His good growth rates in Speed/Str/Build/Hp will ensure he keeps on performing throughout the whole game. Class change to Wyvern after you get Ike, through down +3 speed on him and he'll tare it up. 

Ivy: I feel as though this placement may be controversial but I stand by her placement in this tier. I acknowledge that her combat falls off in the very late game but this isn't a real issue for her. In the mid-game she has both the offense power (19 magic when insta-promoted) and durability to survive multiple hits in the Solm arc. She's one of the few units that joins with an emblem for whom there is no immediately better user. With Lyn's Speedtaker she gains the ability to ORKO most non-magic enemies in the mid-game. Here are some quick calcs: 

17 / 1 Speedtaker Lindwyrm Ivy using the following:

Elfire+2 + Magic Tonic = 34 magic attack

Leif!Elwind+1 = 48 Eff Mag vs. Fliers

19 speed (14 Base + 3 from Lyn skills + 2 from meal/tonic) 

On Chapter 13 vs:

Axe fighters with 6 Res / 43 HP / 9 Speed. deals 28 x 2 = 56 Damage 

Sword fliers with 15 Res / 34 HP / around 13 speed. Ivy deals 33 x 2 = 66 Damage (Elwind)

Wyvern Knights with 15 Res, 47 HP / 16 Speed Deals 33 x 2 = 66 Damage (Elwind)

When backed up by Alear using Bonded Shield for the 100% chance to block damage they can easily eliminate every single flier on the map with no real difficulty. I like to send the rest of the squad down the far west lane to secure the village after routing the 3 enemies near Timera's squad. Doing this effectively removes the challenge from the entire chapter. I could do these kinds of calcs for every map Pre chapter 17, with similar results. But I won't bore you all with the turbo-nerd damage calcs or these explanations will take forever. Once she starts needing much more speed to double faster enemy types, usually around chapter 19, she can fall back into a flying-staff support role with Staff Mastery and Divine Pulse for accurate status staff use and utility. 

Hortensia: S-rank flying staves, B-rank tomes. Enough said. Her personal gives her +1 range on her staves, including warp, re-wrap, and rescue. I often find myself pairing her with Byleth and Micaiah. Her personal flying class allows her to maneuver effortlessly, unlike most staff users. She can also use Fortify (A rank staff) to quickly, or with the right setup, completely replenish her Engage Meter. She starts with enough SP to get Divine Pulse, Canter (when available), and Staff Mastery (when available). Using her to do things like AOE Entrap to snag bosses to gank them early (Chapter 24/many paralogues), AOE Obstruct to block off or funnel enemies, AOE fracture to prevent counterattacks and AOE Rescue/Warp/Re-Wrap to quickly beat the late game maps. While other units can replicate these strategies she is without question the best unit to employ them. Her utility is unique and its usefulness is undeniable (in my opinion, anyway).

 
Pandreo: Magic Kagetsu. Reclass him immediately into MageKnight, hand him a forged tome and/or Levin Sword, and set him loose. Again, like Kagetsu, there isn't much to discuss here. His personal can also add some hit rate reliability which is a nice bonus. 

For context, here are his Chapter 13 bases when immediately reclassed:

35 HP, 15 Magic, 18 Dex, 20 Speed, 8 Def, 20 Res, 11 Luck, 10 Bld. 

See Ivy's section to understand just how good these stats are at this point in the game. He should always have a slot on your team. Some people may advocate for Sage but you're better off, in my opinion, fully committing to the damage and speed route with Mage Knight than are you with Sage. It also has more build and one of the best abilities in the game in Chaos Style. Some people also may argue that Corrin!Kagetsu on Sage for the Flame Dragon Vain is extremely strong but honestly, you're better off engaging enemies quickly and directly in this game, similar to Fates Conquest Lunatic and FE12 H4. The crowd control utility can be replicated with the Obstruct staff and proper positioning. He's better off gaining the extra magic with Corrin and going all out on the offense side. 

Female Alear: I imagine this will be another controversial placement. But again, I stand by this. Both Alears have an easy time gaining enough SP for Canter in the early game. Their combat, while it won't initially blow your socks off, can become very powerful if you promote them to Wyvern, which you should. 

Some people will be quick to point out that Alear may be better off as a support unit due to their dragon affinity. She has access to every Dragon Vain on Corrin and the ability to provide +3 stats when engaged with Byleth but I'll be honest: these traits are grossly overrated. First, like my previous notes on Pandreo, a player experienced with the game's maps and enemy types will have more success simply attacking/luring and defeating enemies outright rather than slowing them down. On the other hand, the +3 stat bonus from Byleth can only be provided when Alear is engaged. Otherwise, they'll be a comparatively useless 5-movement, sword/fist-locked, foot-locked unit. Other units, like Hortensia/Ivy, will have a far easier time refreshing their Engage Meter AND they'll be able to keep up with your combat fliers and mounted units. This allows them to abuse Goddess Dance more frequently; this supersedes the usefulness of +3 to all stats for what might only be 1-2 turns in a chapter if you're playing relatively quickly. Foot-locked Alear, likely untrained/poorly trained if you're going the support route, will be far harder to advance with and keep safe. While the +3 stats are nice, they are not critical. So why is Female Alear in S and not Male Alear? Are they not identical stat-wise? In my view it comes down to this: 

1) Female Alear, in my view, has an easier time activating Chloe's personal skill when warp/re-wrap diving mid to late-game bosses (e.g. using Wyvern Kagtesu [Male] and Wyvern Female Alear). Other units can of course kill bosses but these two have an easy time getting to the point where they can do it compared to other units. 

2) Female Alear does not have to deal with Goldmary and Rosado's annoying personal skills when you fight them as enemies. While they are not difficult to defeat, in an Ironman context I would rather have more reliable options against potentially annoying enemies rather than leaving them on the table. 

3) She also interacts with Louis' personal skill, which can improve his durability in the mid-game if you're using him.  

4) Female Alear can gain +5 hit from Merrin's Knightly Escort. 

 

A Tier

Male Alear: See Female Alear's section. He has everything she does minus the useful gender bonuses/interactions. 

Anna: This one will probably generate some disdain but I, again, will stand by this. In Engage you absolutely need strong magic combat. The only games where magic is more powerful than in Engage are perhaps Tharcia and Awakening. Enemy armoured units have so much defense that even your physical combat carries will deal little to no damage to them without effective weapons. I don't mean that in an abstract sense, either. They will literally deal zero damage unless you have an effective, or powerful forged & engraved weapon. Armour Knights in Chapter 5, for example, have 19 defense. In chapter  18, the Generals have 38 defense which is immense. Chapter 19 Great Knights have 39 Defense. The very late-game armours even have 45-50+. They are also fought frequently and often in groups of at least 2-3 at a time. You get the idea. Magic combat units are effectively required in this game unless you want to sacrifice multiple turns chipping these jerks down. 

Anna is perhaps the 3rd best long-term combat mage in this game. Citrinne does not have the speed (10 base, 30% personal) to keep up in the latter half of the game. Céline does not have the magic (40% on Vidame, for reference). Clanne has a 10% personal magic growth (lol). So why her? While it takes investment, the payoff, in my view, is worth it. But before I get into a stat comparison let's talk about Engage's Meta, especially in the early game. 

1) You get access to Micaiah, which is essentially a free EXP printer. You can use AOE mend and Great Sacrifice to power level any unit you choose. 

2) Other units, like Alear, Chloe, and perhaps Louis, Lapis, Diamant, or Alycrst are the only ones you'll reasonably be using after Chapter 10. All of these units are better served in their hunt for EXP by fighting enemies directly. Having them use staves rather than fight will directly harm your ability to complete these chapters quickly and safely. 

3) Engage is unique in the Fire Emblem series as it's difficultly starts out manageable and gradually increases throughout the game. Compare this to Fates Conquest Lunatic, FE12 H4, or even less difficult but still challenging games like FE6 Hard Mode or FE5 wherein the difficulty is largely front-loaded. In these games, it is not worth it to train up an initially mediocre trainee unit (except archer Mozu in Fates) since the danger posed by the enemies and map challenges are acute and omnipresent. This is not the case in Engage. By contrast, the first 11 chapters of Engage Maddening compose what is by far the easiest section of the game. 

4) The majority of the early game cast simply do not have the bases, growths, or a combination of either needed to be useful long term. This is before considering the fact that they'll have low SP in addition to requiring you to further divide your combat EXP. All of this before we consider the fact that many of them (e.g. Lapis, Alfred, Etie, Boucheron, Yunaka) are directly outclassed by units that join later with better bases, equal or better growths, and more SP such as Zelkov, Fogado, Panette, and Merrin. (I could make another thread about this topic alone). 

5) Master and Second Seals are not hotly contested items since the units you'll want to be promoted in the early game and prepped for the long term are few. 

So let's take stock: We will generally only bring 2-3 trained physical combat units from the Pre-chapter 11 roster (Wyvern F!Alear/Griffion Chloe/Wyvern Lapis or Wyvern Diamant/Great Knight Louis). Staff utility is needed so that you can consistently and quickly defeat enemies and push them back turn after turn. Here's what I mean by this:

First, adding another physical combat unit has diminishing returns during the first 10 chapters. 

Second, adding a strong long-term magic combat unit helps on literally every map in this game as they can easily and safely cut down enemy lance/axe infantry along with enemy armoured units which are otherwise a pain in the behind to deal with. They also have strong 1-2 range options along with anti-flier utility which is always useful. I consider Anna to be one of the major contenders to be on your team post-chapter 11. I stick Micaiah on her and, using AOE mend and Great Sacrifice, power level her to level 15 by the end of chapter 10. I do this so she'll get the +1 build on fixed growth mode at level 15. She'll of course have Canter, the same as the other units we'll be using from the initial cast. 

Knowing this, Let's compare her to Pandreo using the stats we highlighted earlier. Chapter 13 Insta-reclass Mage Knight Pandreo has the following notable stats:

35 HP, 15 Magic, 18 Dex, 20 Speed, 8 Def, 20 Res, 11 Luck, 10 Bld

He's got the build to take no/little speed penalty from the Levin Sword and Bolganone (which you don't get until much later).
Let's say Anna promotes and reclasses into Mageknight in Chapter 11 and gets one level between then and the start of Chapter 13. 15 Axefighter/2 Mageknight Anna has the following notable stats: 

33HP, 15 Magic, 18 Dex, 18 Speed, 7 Def, 16 Res, 9 Luck, 7  Build, and the Canter Skill.

As we saw in the Ivy section, these stats are more than enough, with tonics/meals and proper weapon, to double and 2HKO a wide variety of enemy types at 1-2 range with magic, 6 movement, and Canter. The Canter skill has been talked to death by the community but its implications are huge. It allows you to attack and move away from enemies that would otherwise be unsafe to engage due to overexposure. This is a very significant issue Pandreo (and the units that join post-chapter 10) must deal with. Thus, in practice, this Anna has more opportunities to engage/KO enemies and gain exp in places where Pandreo must be used more safely. This allows her to snowball much easier and capitalize on her strong growth rates. The Solm Arc is the last place where you don't have to sweat much before the enemies' stats start scaling hard so being able to level and complete your builds in this time window is incredibly valuable.  

Finally, her personal skill is irrelevant. Don't bring it up. The proc chance won't be high enough to matter until late in the game if you take her into High Priest. This is before we even consider that you are given enough funds to donate for extra materials and have more than enough leftover to do basically whatever you want in this game, especially compared to Fates Conquest/FE12. If it procs, sweet. If not, then whatever. Also, Pandreo is S-Tier because he has similar performance with no investment apart from a Second Seal and weapon. 

Merrin: She's got strong stats, a good pool of initial SP, and decent growths. Her personal skill also benefits many of the strongest units in the game. Reclass her to Wyvern and set her loose. She can do well on Wolf Knight if you pass her a forged dagger but personally, I like when my combat units can all use and pass around forged engraved weapons as needed (swords, lances, and tomes being the best IMO) rather than having the resources for them earmarked for at most one unit using a niche weapon type. 

B-Tier

Framme: Early game staff user. The ability to block an incoming attack has big applications on enemy phase as it can allow you to fight multiple enemies in situations where an enemy may otherwise inflict break status you (attacks that would break will move first). She generates her own exp for the most part and has early game access to the broken Obstruct staff. Also having the ability to Rescue, Warp, Rewrap for mobility, Physic, and Restore are all useful options if/when you need them. This package of utility is useful enough that I'd bring her to late-game maps even if she were level one. It'd be preferable to taking a comparatively undertrained/skill less combat unit that will likely stand around doing little to nothing. You'll have to protect your staff users/dancer regardless so the trade-off is worth it. 

Céline: Good early game mage. Her personal class gives her access to B-rank staves which is nice. I also find she has a relatively easy time getting to Canter since she'll be your primary combat mage in the early game until Citrinne joins. She can get a lot of use out of Celica before she joins. Her personal skill adds to the amount healing items restore (Vulns heal 22 instead of 15) which is a nice bonus. Hot take: if you're gonna use her she's probably better off reclassing in Martial Master and just going all in on staff/blocking utility with healing light and canter post-chapter 10.  

Jean: Put the pitchforks downs. He's good for the same reason Martial Master Framme and Martial Master Céline can be, just to a lesser extent. In exchange, you have the option to train him to be a decent combat unit as his personal skill doubles the individual class growth rate modifiers. If you want to mess around with that then I recommend using Paladin (I prefer sword but lances also work), Wyvern (sword/lance), or Warrior. 

Lindon: Funny crits, old man. But nah. Just reclass him to Griffin, toss him Staff Mastery 3 and Canter (he comes with enough SP for both), Emblem Lucina to block for your combat fliers, and send him in. He's a strong support unit. His stats on Griffin are also decent so he's not a defensive liability. 

Mauvier: Do the same as Lindon skill and class-wise. His stats are also decent, the same as Lindon. I don't think he's that good of a combat unit so just focus on support. 

Panette: She's decent but overrated in my view. I don't think she's a strong enough grounded combat unit to justify the absence of flight+canter flexibility. Her crit builds are fun but I prefer to steer clear of low hp Wrath/Vantage crit strategies as they leave no room to improvise if you get rocked from outside your attack range or you don't crit or miss on enemy phase. She's more than usable as a combat specialist in this role, though. You will need to protect her as her defenses won't allow her to take multiple hits on enemy phase. While this is true for a lot of units on a given roster (support units, mages, etc) those units don't need to walk the RNG tightrope on enemy phase to be strong. If you want to take a more conventional approach then she'll be at least decent regardless of what you do. 

Also, the Warrior's Merciless skill paired with the Fracture staff can net you some KOs you'd be otherwise unable to secure on player phase. Try it out. 

Veyle: She's a dragon. Lots of people will use her for that alone on her personal class with Corrin/Byleth. Personally, I don't. If I choose to use her then I'll just reclass her. She's very strong offensively when reclassed into Mage Knight: 

Chapter 23 Reclass (Recommended Level is Advanced Class Lv 14) 35 Fell Dragon / 1 Mageknight Veyle:

36 HP, 22 Str, 26 Mag, 28 Dex (capped), 27 Speed, 18 Defense, 30 Res, 17 Luck, 9  Build. 

For comparison:

15 Axefighter/13 Mage Knight Anna:

39 HP, 12 Str, 23 Magic, 24 Dex, 24 Speed, 10 Def, 23 Res, 14 Luck, 7 Build

Chapter 13 Insta reclass Mageknight Lv 14 Pandreo:

42 HP, 7 Str, 23 Magic, 24 Dex, 23 Speed, 10 Def, 33 Res, 22 Luck, 10 build 

Goldmary: She's a serviceable unit. You can simply train her to level 5 as a Hero and let her use Brave Dual Assist to support your team. She's also got high defense when reclassed to Great Knight. With Ike's +3 Defense and a tonic, she can block access to the boat on Chapter 19, allowing your fliers and mages to safely engage both bosses and the enemies on the dock. The Wolfknights won't have enough attack to damage her and they'll opt to sit there and do nothing. Either use Obstruct to keep away the Wyrm on the south side, or just slay it outright, then you'll be good. 

Fogado: He's good decent stats and growths when he joins. I don't find myself needing another physical combat unit at this point but he makes a great Warrior since he'll have access to B-rank bows. He can also do well with a forged Radiant Bow with his 9-base magic. 

Zelkov: Another unit with good stats and fairly decent growths. His being level 17 when he joins can be kind of annoying since you'll need to level him to 21 before he can reclass to Wyvern but he's more than decent should you choose to use him. 

Rosado: His bases are borderline serviceable for the point he joins at (Chapter 16) but his growths on fixed mode are solid enough that you can use him should you choose to do so. I recommend reclassing him to Sword/Axe or Sword/Lance Wyvern so he can make better use of his speed. 

Saphir: She's a decent warrior with a good starting SP pool. She won't blow you away but again, she's passable in a combat support role. 

Lapis: Probably another hot-take placement-wise. She's basically discount Chloe, which is pretty good. Reclass her to Wyvern and she'll have what it takes to put in work. Her personal skill is also super underrated. Reducing your own crit rate and increasing your hit rate can add reliability on both phases. Crit builds are mostly garbage/unnecessary in this game so don't think of it as a potential damage nerf, think of it as a concrete reliability buff.

 
Diamant: Same as Lapis. Both of them struggle with the fact that you're better off just throwing Alear into Wyvern early game. Fair-fight is also a good skill as it can patch up his hit rates. 

Alcryst: Don't get too angry over this one. I debated placing him into the top of the C-tier but I went with the bottom of the B-tier. Alcryst, in my assessment, is being overrated by the community. Perhaps it's the allure of the Luna skill which is honestly garbage. He provides some immediate anti-flier utility in the chapter he joins, which is good. Fliers are also perhaps the most dangerous enemy type in the game, similar to FE6/Three Houses. So why do I think he's overrated? It boils down to this:

1) He has low strength in his personal class. He only reaches 19.9 strength as a 10/20 Tireur d'élite. He won't even be reaching this until the end of the game. This is laughably bad. For context, most physical combat enemies in the mid-late game have 15-25 defense. If we assume he's around level 10/4 he'll have 13-16-ish strength during the Solm arc. That's awful for a bow-locked unit. Factoring in a forged silver or steel he'll maybe have 30 or so attack, less with lighter weapons. He won't be 2HKOing. Not to mention he'll be bow-locked and foot-looked. If you want to justify your existence as a bow-locked, foot-locked unit you need to be able to point, click, and delete almost all non-armoured enemies no questions asked. His inability to do even this much combined with his mediocre stats makes him a major defensive liability and restricts opportunities to gain exp, setting him further back. 

2) Luna is hot garbage. The skill halves enemy defense so in most cases it'll be adding 8-14 ish attack. If you're gaining more damage than this then Alcryst would've been dealing little to no damage to begin with. The late-game Brave Bow build is unreliable as it requires you to hit proc chances. This is another major issue unto itself as the proc rate will, for the vast majority of the game, be low enough that you can never factor it into your gameplan but you'll also need to be careful on enemy phase with it as it may end up killing an enemy you did not mean to, potentially opening him up to a fatal attack from another enemy. You'll need to assume the latter scenario will happen regardless of Luna's proc chance if you want to avoid a death chance. He would straight up be better and more reliable if he did not have Luna. This is true of all the +damage proc skills. 

3) You simply do not need bow users in this game. If there were a flying class that had bow access, like Kinshi Knight from Fates, then perhaps we could have a conversation about it but you can just fight the enemy fliers normally or just slay with them with 1-2 range wind magic. 

If you want to use him he's probably better off just reclassing to Warrior/Wyvern. 

C-Tier

Vander: Use him till you no longer want to. He can chip and soak damage for the first 10 chapters. Perfectly serviceable in his role as a Jeagan. 

Louis: Seriously, put those pitchforks down. You simply do not need an armoured unit in this game. Personally, I view him the same way I do Oswin in FE7. Many less experienced players will be able to use him as a crutch to make their way through maps but as the community gets more comfortable with Engage I predict that his stock will drop. Defensive formations and situations can be navigated with the use of the Obstruct staff, Status staves, Flame Dragon Vain, and just good positioning. While enemies in this game are strong they are not so monstrous that you need a dedicated defense tank. His growths are ill-suited for any other role, as well. Deploy him in the early game where he is most useful then drop him post-chapter 10. 

Timerra: Sandstorm is garbage for every reason Luna is garbage. Do not @ me. Her stats are decent enough when she joins that you can just reclass her to Wyvern if you need a stand-in. She also has one of the best personal skills in the game as it reduces enemy crit chances which are a constant threat throughout the whole game. 

Bunet: Where's my Chef's Hat for this guy? Nah, I jest (somewhat). He's okay when he joins but his stats and growths aren't good enough to keep up long-term. Use him if you need to but otherwise send him to the bench. 

Citrinne: Without Dire-Thunder she's kind of mid. She can be decent when insta-promoted to Mage Knight or Sage but she falls off hard. People think Anna is frail but she'll at least have to speed to avoid getting doubled by fast sword users until the very late game. Citrinne has around the same durability but she gets doubled in the mid-late game, heavily restricting her usability. I'd rather use the grace period we get in the early game to train up a better long-term mage. 

Amber: This guy's strength is pretty good. His other stats are kinda mid. Make him a Wyvern if you want to use him but otherwise, I wouldn't bother. 

D-Tier

Clanne: Early game mage. Use him until you get Céline then bench him. He can be decent when reclassed into a physical unit but it's generally not worth it. 

Yunaka: Seriously, guys, put the weapons away. She's down here because she requires too many levels to get to a point where she can reclass, on top of being strictly outclassed on fixed growths when Zelkov joins. Other physical combat units are also just better stat-wise and considering the weapon forging situation I highlighted early. Fog-avoid tanking strategies do not work well on Maddening on top of being generally unneeded. You have the tools to stall enemies if you want to as previously discussed. Use her until she's no longer good then bench her. 

B̶e̶n̶c̶h̶e̶r̶o̶n̶ Boucheron: Early game backup attacks are useful. He has low strength and it's generally not worth it to train him. Use him until you no longer need him then send him back home. 

F-Tier:

Etie: She makes a good first impression but her stats and growths simply do not keep up on Maddening. This is before we even consider that Alcryst, who himself is kind of mid, completely outclasses her. Feeding her is actively a waste of exp. 

Alfred: Too slow. Low build for an early game lancer user. Decent-ish growths but again, training him as a physical combat unit over Alear or even Louis will just actively hurt you in the long run. Use him for chip/combat utility in the early game then bench him. 

Jade: You don't need an armoured unit. Her growths don't support any other role. She's Louis without the early-game utility. Don't bother using her.  

Bonus

Weapons I recommend forging:

1) Celica engraved Elfire+2/3 for Anna/Pandreo/Ivy to avoid crits (all game)

2) Marth engraved Steel Sword+3 for Alear and Kagetsu (Early-Mid game) 

3) Sigurd engraved Steel Lance +3 for Chloe and Alear.

4) Byleth engraved Bolganone +1-3 for Speedtaker mages/Pandreo

5) Lucina engraved Brave Sword +2/3 for Mid-late game bossing killing on Alear/Kagetsu. 

6) Alear engraved Brave Lance +2 for very late game boss killing/skips. 

7) Erika engraved Thoron for accurate ranged damage. 

8) Ike engraved Silver Blade to use with Lodestar Rush boss kills late in the game. 

9) Leif engraved Elwind for accurate and strong early game anti-flier utility. 

10) Corrin engraving works for anyone who needs extra crit avoid 'cause enemy crit rates in this game are too high and frequent in general.  

Paralogues Worth Doing

1) Erika's Paralogue for Lunar Brace+ and Sieglinde, one of the few weapons effective vs. corrupted. It can be completed easily in 2 turns with AOE warp provided you activate Erika turn one with a Covert's Astra Storm. 

2) Micaiah's Paralogue for high level Staff Mastery. It can be completed in 3 turns with 100% reliability. Again, use Covert AS to force her to move, use Engaged Corrin to freeze the armour knights in place. Once she steps forward in the centre just gank her and win. 

3) Lucina's Paralogue for Dual Assist+ and access to the Parthia for quick EXP gain and a strong anti-flier weapon (matters much less now that Ancient Well is in the game). 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Mavi251
Spelling/Formatting

[samthedigital]

2 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

Panette: She's decent but overrated in my view. I don't think she's a strong enough grounded combat unit to justify the absence of flight+canter flexibility. Her crit builds are fun but I prefer to steer clear of low hp Wrath/Vantage crit strategies as they leave no room to improvise if you get rocked from outside your attack range or you don't crit or miss on enemy phase. She's more than usable as a combat specialist in this role, though. You will need to protect her as her defenses won't allow her to take multiple hits on enemy phase. While this is true for a lot of units on a given roster (support units, mages, etc) those units don't need to walk the RNG tightrope on enemy phase to be strong. If you want to take a more conventional approach then she'll be at least decent regardless of what you do. 

When were you able to do the Ike paralogue?

[Mavi251]

 

54 minutes ago, samthedigital said:

When were you able to do the Ike paralogue?

Nah. I don't find it to be worth doing. Nothing his expanded skill lists gives is worth it in my opinion and Ragnell is kinda bad despite being a 1-2 physical sword you can get in the mid-game. Resolve+ (Bond Lv. 18) is pretty good but I don't find myself needing more defense to clear the mid-end game. You can of course use Ike offensively to dive but I rarely find myself needing it.

[samthedigital]

22 minutes ago, Mavi251 said:

 

Nah. I don't find it to be worth doing. Nothing his expanded skill lists gives is worth it in my opinion and Ragnell is kinda bad despite being a 1-2 physical sword you can get in the mid-game. Resolve+ (Bond Lv. 18) is pretty good but I don't find myself needing more defense to clear the mid-end game. You can of course use Ike offensively to dive but I rarely find myself needing it.

Mmm, I ask because with Hit+10/20 Panette can reach 100% hit+ crit for a good while. I finished the Ike and Leif paralogue as soon as I was able, but I'd imagine it would be difficult to do that early given Ike's bulk in his paralogue making the setup less relevant until later on in the game.

[Mavi251]

1 minute ago, samthedigital said:

Mmm, I ask because with Hit+10/20 Panette can reach 100% hit+ crit for a good while. I finished the Ike and Leif paralogue as soon as I was able, but I'd imagine it would be difficult to do that early given Ike's bulk in his paralogue making the setup less relevant until later on in the game.

It's exactly that. Doing many of the paralogues early is kind of dangerous since the enemies are numerous and the bosses are strong (most of them). Most of the maps feature nasty reinforcements, as well. By the time you're able to clear/skip them easily, usually after Chapter 19 when you get Micaiah back, you probably won't need their bonuses/unlocks. It'd be fine in a reset/Draconic Time Crystal playthrough, but in an Ironman I wouldn't chance it if it doesn't add a lot to the late game and is relatively easy/safe to get like Lunar/Eclipse Brace+ with Seiglinde or high level Staff Mastery. 

[Speedy]

Overall I'd agree to the list, except for yunaka, in my run I am using her and when we reached the point when zelkov joined, she was much stronger than him. (I did play 4 divine paralogues form the DLC before chapter 10-11, but she didnt really got any special treatment, it only helped her to reach the same lvl as Zelkov is when he joins.) I would say, you can skip her, because of Zelkov, but if you invest in her she outshines him. Also up until that point there are not many units worth to invest in anyway.

Also I would put Vander lower, I dont think he even serves well as a Jagen, he falls of way to quickly and if you really care about xp distribution, he makes earlier chapters harder because you are trying to avoid giving him xp. 😄 But I will concede that he serves his purpose in specific runs like LTC and so on. Otherwise he is bench warmer #1.

[Shadow Mir]

I'm gonna be blunt - I don't know what the hell I should glean from this, because your criteria openly clash. It's supposed to be ironman... but we're keeping everyone alive... and we're trying to play fast to boot. I'd sooner consult a dedicated tier list than one that tries to do too much.

EDIT:

14 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

3) You simply do not need bow users in this game. If there were a flying class that had bow access, like Kinshi Knight from Fates, then perhaps we could have a conversation about it but you can just fight the enemy fliers normally or just slay with them with 1-2 range wind magic. 

I would disagree - in general, a Silver Bow is much more powerful than Excalibur against fliers (Excalibur only has 30 eff mt, whereas a Silver Bow has 39 before forging). Also, Griffin Knights have higher Resistance than Defence. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[Mavi251]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm gonna be blunt - I don't know what the hell I should glean from this, because your criteria openly clash. It's supposed to be ironman... but we're keeping everyone alive... and we're trying to play fast to boot. I'd sooner consult a dedicated tier list than one that tries to do too much.

EDIT:

I would disagree - in general, a Silver Bow is much more powerful than Excalibur against fliers (Excalibur only has 30 eff mt, whereas a Silver Bow has 39 before forging). Also, Griffin Knights have higher Resistance than Defence. 

I respectfully disagree. I don't think there is a clash at all. We will try to keep everyone alive but people can die. We want to play through the game but also want to avoid just sitting in a corner and safely stalling out every map 'cause it's boring, hence the 15 turn recommendation. It's more of a rule of thumb rather than a hard rule that I also think is kind of generous since this game's maps are mostly pretty small and tightly constructed. I think the natural bow users in this game are either bad or mediocre. There are no Mozus or FE10 Shinons in this game. I specifically made the comparison to FE6 and 3H to* highlight that the fliers aren't as comparatively lethal as they can be in those two games. The Griffin/Wyvern knights aren't so strong that bows are required, you have the tools to fight them (staff users, Lyn emblem, Parthia from Lucina, etc) or just ignore/skip them like any other enemy type on shorter/warp-skippable maps. The Griffins have more mid level defense and can be dealt with fairly easily, it's not until the last 3 or so chapters where the enemy fliers start getting really strong that forged bows become the best option. By then it probably won't matter since the tools you have at the point to fight anything are numerous if you're not just Micaiah/Covert Astra Storm skipping the maps.   

Edit: Added a word/line for clarity*. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Mavi251
Spelling/Formatting

[Shadow Mir]

12 minutes ago, Mavi251 said:

I respectfully disagree. I don't think there is a clash at all. We will try to keep everyone alive but people can die. We want to play through the game but also want to avoid just sitting in a corner and safely stalling out every map 'cause it's boring, hence the 15 turn recommendation. It's more of a rule of thumb rather than a hard rule that I also think is kind of generous since this game's maps are mostly pretty small and tightly constructed. I think the natural bow users in this game are either bad or mediocre. There are no Mozus or FE10 Shinons in this game. I specifically made the comparison to FE6 and 3H highlight that the fliers aren't as comparatively lethal as they can be in those two games. The Griffin/Wyvern knights aren't so strong that bows are required, you have the tools to fight them (staff users, Lyn emblem, Parthia from Lucina, etc) or just ignore/skip them like any other enemy type on shorter/warp-skippable maps. The Griffins have more mid level defense and can be dealt with fairly easily, it's not until the last 3 or so chapters where the enemy fliers start getting really strong that forged bows become the best option. By then it probably won't matter since the tools you have at the point to fight anything are numerous.   

"Ironman" and "fast play" go together like oil and water, to be blunt.

RE: your anti-air options; the obvious flaw with most of them is that they require engaging. Also, Griffin Knights in particular are nigh impossible to double.

Bold: I don't see why you mentioned Mozu because to be blunt, I don't think she's good. She's too much of a resource sink that doesn't pay off well enough to be worth it. Even in Conquest.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[Mavi251]

2 hours ago, Speedy said:

Overall I'd agree to the list, except for yunaka, in my run I am using her and when we reached the point when zelkov joined, she was much stronger than him. (I did play 4 divine paralogues form the DLC before chapter 10-11, but she didnt really got any special treatment, it only helped her to reach the same lvl as Zelkov is when he joins.) I would say, you can skip her, because of Zelkov, but if you invest in her she outshines him. Also up until that point there are not many units worth to invest in anyway.

Also I would put Vander lower, I dont think he even serves well as a Jagen, he falls of way to quickly and if you really care about xp distribution, he makes earlier chapters harder because you are trying to avoid giving him xp. 😄 But I will concede that he serves his purpose in specific runs like LTC and so on. Otherwise he is bench warmer #1.

Yeah I originally wanted to place Vander lower but he's a fairly bulky guy that can stand in if you need him during the early game, bench him if you don't. Gotta give him some credit for that. Though he's no FE6 Marcus, that's for sure. I also think that between Micaiah's AOE Healing and Marth's Mercurius, EXP is not so tight that you need to worry about the odd KO here or there are going to someone you aren't using long term.*

Edit: Formatting

Edited March 20, 2023 by Mavi251
Spelling/Formatting

[Mavi251]

2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

"Ironman" and "fast play" go together like oil and water, to be blunt.

RE: your anti-air options; the obvious flaw with most of them is that they require engaging.

Bold: I don't see why you mentioned Mozu because to be blunt, I don't think she's good. She's too much of a resource sink that doesn't pay off well enough to be worth it. Even in Conquest.

The only game I think is unfriendly to Ironman is Three Houses, especially on Silver Snow. Also, I wouldn't describe 15 turns as fast in this game as most maps can be completed relatively safely in 10-12 turns or less in my experience and what I've seen people post. But I concede the point, the list may aim to do too much. I'll keep that in mind for future reference

Most of those options require Engaging but the fliers you fight in this game are not numerous (except chapter 13) or frequent. Many also come as non-ambush reinforcements on some maps. It's not hard to deal with them as any of your physical combat wyverns will likely be able to just fight them straight up. Again, it's not until the very late game that enemy fliers are super powerful (and have crazy high avoid).  

The Mozu/early game Conquest stuff could be it's own topic and I stand by my opinion on bow users in Engage so I'll just concede and move past it here since it's not the point of the thread. 

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

The only game I think is unfriendly to Ironman is Three Houses, especially on Silver Snow.

>ctrl+f "Binding Blade"
>Not found

Also, Radiant Dawn.

2 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

Most of those options require Engaging but the fliers you fight in this game are not numerous (except chapter 13) or frequent. Many also come as non-ambush reinforcements on some maps. It's not hard to deal with them as any of your physical combat wyverns will likely be able to just fight them straight up. Again, it's not until the very late game that enemy fliers are super powerful (and have crazy high avoid).  

I get the feeling you're underestimating the enemies. Most of my units can't really take more than two hits before dying. On Hard mode. Also, I'd still see needing Engaging to have good anti-air options to be a big problem. 

[Mavi251]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

>ctrl+f "Binding Blade"
>Not found

Also, Radiant Dawn.

I get the feeling you're underestimating the enemies. Most of my units can't really take more than two hits before dying. On Hard mode. Also, I'd still see needing Engaging to have good anti-air options to be a big problem. 

If you can get past the Dawn Brigade section of FE10 then I honestly think the game becomes yours to lose. You get sooo many powerful units that don't need a lot, or any investment that run roughshod over enemies. The Laguz Royals, Ragnell Ike, Early game Sothe, etc. 

I don't think FE6 is *that* hard. The first 13 chapters can be a pain but like most FE games the difficultly is front loaded. If you clear the first half then you're mostly good to go, especially if you go to Ilia route which is the easiest section of the game. The only hard (annoying) map post chapter 14 in FE6 I'd say is Sacae chapter 20BX. Chapter 21's reinforcements can be avoided by not triggering them and using fliers. Chapter 21X is basically free whether you choose to warp skip it or not. Chapter 22 is also free provided you have a semi-decent team. The last maps after that are basically a race the finish and pose no real challenge. Outside of chapters 4, 7, 10B/11A (both routes) 14 (if you're not familiar with the enemy positions), Sacae 20BX and perhaps Sacae 19 (if you're not prepared for Gel) pose any real challenge. The game really shows its* age despite being my favourite and the title I've played the most. Perhaps I'm projecting my experience onto my assessment and this conversation. 

Also it's not like the fliers in Engage are immune or heavily resist non-bow damage. You can just fight them normally. While the enemies certainly aren't trivial in Engage Maddening, during the latter half of the run I'd say the only map where enemy fliers significantly threaten you AND cannot otherwise be easily avoided is the boat map, Chapter 18. Dealing with fliers in the game is not like dealing with enemy armoured units who basically require magic/effective damage to dispose of them quickly. This isn't the case with bows and fliers. I think you're overestimating their threat level. While most units can't tank more than two hits you still have so many options to deal with them that simply don't exist in most other games. Chain guards, Bonded Shield, Obstruct staff to block off routes and/or create artificial funnels/chokepoints, freeze/silence staves, Corrin's dreadful aura and dragon vain, Ike to tank, Goddess Dance to go all in, etc. It's just a matter of bringing the right tools for the job if you ask me. 

I get what you're saying though. I wouldn't class FE10 or FE6 as being free but there're not *that* bad either. 

Edit: Spelling*

Edited March 20, 2023 by Mavi251
Spelling/Formatting

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

If you can get past the Dawn Brigade section of FE10 then I honestly think the game becomes yours to lose. You get sooo many powerful units that don't need a lot, or any investment that run roughshod over enemies. The Laguz Royals, Ragnell Ike, Early game Sothe, etc. 

The last time I saw someone try to ironman Radiant Dawn, they game overed in part 1. Twice. Also, I saw someone here try to do it, and they, too, game overed. Except it was in part 2. Which reminds me, there are a lot of game over conditions in RD... and that ain't even talking about 1-9. Or 3-6. It doesn't matter how overpowered the laguz royals are if your run dies before you even get there, now does it?

2 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

I don't think FE6 is *that* hard. The first 13 chapters can be a pain but like most FE games the difficultly is front loaded. If you clear the first half then you're mostly good to go, especially if you go to Ilia route which is the easiest section of the game. The only hard (annoying) map post chapter 14 in FE6 I'd say is Sacae chapter 20BX. Chapter 21's reinforcements can be avoided by not triggering them and using fliers. Chapter 21X is basically free whether you choose to warp skip it or not. Chapter 22 is also free provided you have a semi-decent team. The last maps after that are basically a race the finish and pose no real challenge. Outside of chapters 4, 7, 10B/11A (both routes) 14 (if you're not familiar with the enemy positions), Sacae 20BX and perhaps Sacae 19 (if you're not prepared for Gel) pose any real challenge. The game really shows its* age despite being my favourite and the title I've played the most. Perhaps I'm projecting my experience onto my assessment and this conversation. 

Think about the fact that Rutger is the only reliable boss killer... And the fact Roy sucks harder than Little Mac's recovery. AND the fact that that game has ambush reinforcements. AND the lopsided class and unit quality, for good measure.

2 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

Also it's not like the fliers in Engage are immune or heavily resist non-bow damage. You can just fight them normally. While the enemies certainly aren't trivial in Engage Maddening, during the latter half of the run I'd say the only map where enemy fliers significantly threaten you AND cannot otherwise be easily avoided is the boat map, Chapter 18. Dealing with fliers in the game is not like dealing with enemy armoured units who basically require magic/effective damage to dispose of them quickly. This isn't the case with bows and fliers. I think you're overestimating their threat level. While most units can't tank more than two hits you still have so many options to deal with them that simply don't exist in most other games. Chain guards, Bonded Shield, Obstruct staff to block off routes and/or create artificial funnels/chokepoints, freeze/silence staves, Corrin's dreadful aura and dragon vain, Ike to tank, Goddess Dance to go all in, etc. It's just a matter of bringing the right tools for the job if you ask me. 

I'd not like to have to send like 3 units to KO one flier. Maybe with the need to add another because someone whiffed. Now, armored units really need magic to kill quickly, yes, but they can be slowed down by Dragon Vein Blaze if need be. Fliers cannot. That said... Chain guards need full HP to work, and because they incur damage doing so, only work once until the qi adept is healed. Bonded Shield is more usable, but it needs a qi adept to really be effective. That ignores the fact that Lucina works on mostly anyone. Tanking with Ike is only really good on someone who was already durable to begin with.

[Mavi251]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

The last time I saw someone try to ironman Radiant Dawn, they game overed in part 1. Twice. Also, I saw someone here try to do it, and they, too, game overed. Except it was in part 2. Which reminds me, there are a lot of game over conditions in RD... and that ain't even talking about 1-9. Or 3-6. It doesn't matter how overpowered the laguz royals are if your run dies before you even get there, now does it?

Think about the fact that Rutger is the only reliable boss killer... And the fact Roy sucks harder than Little Mac's recovery. AND the fact that that game has ambush reinforcements. AND the lopsided class and unit quality, for good measure.

I'd not like to have to send like 3 units to KO one flier. Maybe with the need to add another because someone whiffed. Now, armored units really need magic to kill quickly, yes, but they can be slowed down by Dragon Vein Blaze if need be. Fliers cannot. That said... Chain guards need full HP to work, and because they incur damage doing so, only work once until the qi adept is healed. Bonded Shield is more usable, but it needs a qi adept to really be effective. That ignores the fact that Lucina works on mostly anyone. Tanking with Ike is only really good on someone who was already durable to begin with.

RD early game can be hard. I identified that in my post. An experienced player not streaming (managing a stream while playing makes everything harder, not to mention the nerves) won't have major trouble with it if they come in with a plan. Saying "some people have trouble with x map/section" is true for every fire emblem game and isn't too helpful without more context to be honest. I stand by this. 

Rutger is arguably the most over-rated unit in the entire franchise. He's amazing but far from the only viable boss slayer. Supported Lance/Alan (mostly Lance for the higher base speed) also dunk on every single chapter post Chapter 8 when promoted as he/they are the only reliable 1-2 range users you get (except a trained Milady). People just overly rely on Rutger as a crutch and haven't bothered to look into other options. They overfeed him and then get mad when their 6 move sword locked unit can't no diff the latter half of the game. FE6 enemies are bulky and hit hard but by no means are they on the level of FE12/Awakening/Three Houses or even Fates (except Rev's bulky as heck promoted enemies). 

It's easy enough to get at least double B rank supports with Lance/Alan/Roy before chapter 10 whilst also completing every map in around 15 turns or less (except chapter 8 because that map is huge). All it takes is some good positioning and rescue dropping which you'll require regardless if you want to make it through the game's huge maps in an orderly fashion. Other units like Shin, Echidna, Milady, Percival, trained Lugh, and even a trained Fir can dispose of bosses without too much trouble, especially if you go Illa. The only bosses who posses anything like a serious challenge are Henning, the boss of chapter 8x, and Gel on Sacae chapter 19. Literally every other boss in this game is a pushover and are the easiest parts of their respective maps. Edit: I will also include the boss of Sacae chapter 18 in this list.*

I'm not gonna argue on Engage's fliers anymore to be honest. They're dangerous but no so much so that you effectively require a dedicated bow user like you do with armours and mage. Are bows strong? Of course. Is bringing a natural bow user required to not pull your hair out dealing with fliers in this game? Of course not. You say you don't want to send 3 guys for one enemy flier but their stats aren't much different than the enemy infantry users until again, like I've been saying, the very late game. You're making it sound like we're fighting Wyverns in early game FE12 H4 or late game Falcons in Silver Snow but we're not. 

Let's take Chapter 16 as an example.

The reinforcement Griffins have 42 HP and 17 Def. The Heroes have 45 HP and 20 def. The non promoted units and non promoted fliers are even weaker. They're annoying but not *that* dangerous. 

Let's try Chapter 18.

The Griffins have 48 HP, 24 speed, 17 def, 27 Res.

The Wyverns have 56 HP, 20 speed, 23 def, 8 Res. 

The Heroes have 51 HP, 25 speed, 21 def, 14 Res. 

The Berserkers have 64 HP, 21 speed, 17 def, 11 Res.

If you have units to take out the grounded infantry then those same units can slay the fliers, especially using effective weapons like the wind sword on Erika, Falchion from Lucina, Wyrmslayer, Lyn emblem engage attack and her bows, wind magic, etc. It's not that bad, man. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Mavi251
Added an extra note*.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Mavi251 said:

Rutger is arguably the most over-rated unit in the entire franchise.

I hard disagree, because Ryoma exists. Peeps talk about him as if he's some unkillable war god that can solo Birthright.

1 hour ago, Mavi251 said:

He's amazing but far from the only viable boss slayer. Supported Lance/Alan (mostly Lance for the higher base speed) also dunk on every single chapter post Chapter 8 when promoted as he/they are the only reliable 1-2 range users you get (except a trained Milady). People just overly rely on Rutger as a crutch and haven't bothered to look into other options. They overfeed him and then get mad when their 6 move sword locked unit can't no diff the latter half of the game. FE6 enemies are bulky and hit hard but by no means are they on the level of FE12/Awakening/Three Houses or even Fates (except Rev's bulky as heck promoted enemies). 

>Reliable 1-2 range
>FE6

Hahahahaha no. Javelins and hand axes have suck for accuracy in that game.

1 hour ago, Mavi251 said:

It's easy enough to get at least double B rank supports with Lance/Alan/Roy before chapter 10 whilst also completing every map in around 15 turns or less (except chapter 8 because that map is huge). All it takes is some good positioning and rescue dropping which you'll require regardless if you want to make it through the game's huge maps in an orderly fashion. Other units like Shin, Echidna, Milady, Percival, trained Lugh, and even a trained Fir can dispose of bosses without too much trouble, especially if you go Illa. The only bosses who posses anything like a serious challenge are Henning, the boss of chapter 8x, and Gel on Sacae chapter 19. Literally every other boss in this game is a pushover and are the easiest parts of their respective maps. Edit: I will also include the boss of Sacae chapter 18 in this list.*

Many of whom can't double bosses nearly as easily, and the one that can, starts underleveled.

1 hour ago, Mavi251 said:

If you have units to take out the grounded infantry then those same units can slay the fliers, especially using effective weapons like the wind sword on Erika, Falchion from Lucina, Wyrmslayer, Lyn emblem engage attack and her bows, wind magic, etc. It's not that bad, man. 

Honestly... The Wyrmslayer is only particularly worth using on Phantom Wyrms. There are better outs to Wyvern Knights, and the one thing it'd have actually been useful against is the same shit that it doesn't work on (aka corrputed wyrms). Also, I'd honestly consider a sniper the best user of Lyn's Astra Storm anyway. Otherwise, your only option is her Killer Bow, which prolly won't kill much of anything worth targeting at that point.

1 hour ago, Mavi251 said:

Let's try Chapter 18.

The Griffins have 48 HP, 24 speed, 17 def, 27 Res.

The Wyverns have 56 HP, 20 speed, 23 def, 8 Res. 

The Heroes have 51 HP, 25 speed, 21 def, 14 Res. 

The Berserkers have 64 HP, 21 speed, 17 def, 11 Res.

The foot units, as I said, can be damaged and slowed down to a crawl by fire. Which is honestly the one dragon vein I get the most use out of.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[samthedigital]

I would love to talk more about FE6, but I'll refrain from doing so to keep this on topic, anyway...

On 3/19/2023 at 5:56 PM, Mavi251 said:

Paralogues Worth Doing

I would add the Byleth paralogue if only because DP+ is really nice to have as an inheritable skill. The paralogue itself isn't particularly difficult even without cheese because a lot of the AI targets the crystals before they attack the player.

[Mavi251]

4 hours ago, samthedigital said:

I would love to talk more about FE6, but I'll refrain from doing so to keep this on topic, anyway...

I would add the Byleth paralogue if only because DP+ is really nice to have as an inheritable skill. The paralogue itself isn't particularly difficult even without cheese because a lot of the AI targets the crystals before they attack the player.

I get that. I honestly don't find myself bothering but DP+ can be good failsafe for Hortensia entrap/freeze strats late game. Adding 50% with another 20-30 percent from her good luck pairs well with Staff Mastery for near guaranteed status staff hits late game. I don't find that combat units have hit rate issues if you give them good engraves/forges, though (except maybe late-game Ivy depending on the forge/weapon). 

[samthedigital]

2 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

I honestly don't find myself bothering but DP+ can be good failsafe for Hortensia entrap/freeze strats late game.

I find that it also helps out Martial Masters with too because it double dips with the staff rate and shaky hit rates over the course of multiple attacks, but yeah; Hortensia is the primary reason.