So...let's talk tiers.

[Lord Raven]

Because a Cleric, who has no offensive options and is normally in the back lines healing, should be taking hits.

This doesn't make this any less of a strike against her. Well, to be fair it does mean a bit more that she shouldn't enter combat, but being brittle doesn't exactly help much at all, and the more brittle means the more protected they need to be.

[Rodykitty]

This doesn't make this any less of a strike against her. Well, to be fair it does mean a bit more that she shouldn't enter combat, but being brittle doesn't exactly help much at all, and the more brittle means the more protected they need to be.

Actually, I think he was trying to use this as a strike against Meric, not Shiida.

[Clonez]

He's not staying a curate forever. We're talking about promotion, here. A mage who can survive on the frontlines and can one round everything>>one who can't but can one round everything

First of all, all of the magic users can't take hits so Merric is the best. So Merric>all magic users. Yet Shiida is behind garbage like Raddy Caesar, and Roger. I don't really get it. I said her I want moved up a couple notches, not up to Merric's level.

And what kind of person would put a Sage in the front lines, unless he has hax defense or dodge, something Merric doesn't have.

When you're damn near to the next level of WEXP, which is the total opposite of a slight advantage? Yes, it is imporant. He's ten WEXP away from C for crying out loud.

A C in magic doesn't net a whole lot because he'll be using Excalibur, instead of Thoron and Bolgannone, magic that has less use and brings down his attack speed.

Both units can rape enemies with Fire because you can "forge thanks to the endless funds and enemies have 0 resistance."

This doesn't make this any less of a strike against her. Well, to be fair it does mean a bit more that she shouldn't enter combat, but being brittle doesn't exactly help much at all, and the more brittle means the more protected they need to be.

It's called sarcasm. A Cleric with a higher durability is still a Cleric. So in my opinion, a Cleric with better durability holds little weight because they're still clerics, the worst defensive unit in the game, next to bow users.

In my opinion, magic units shouldn't be in the front lines because:

1. No WTA.

2. Low movement, so they might not even get to the front lines, and if they do, they weigh your party backwards.

3. Low defense.

4. They have constant 1~2 range, while physical units most of the time may have 1, so take advantage of attacking afar.

When you're not in the front lines, you don't worry about getting hit, so the whole durability holds nothing. So why is he still at a 3 tier advantage? Because he gets 3HKO'd by a weak unit? Physical units do it better.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Clonez

[Rodykitty]

A C in magic doesn't net a whole lot because he'll be using Excalibur, instead of Thoron and Bolgannone, magic that has less use and brings down his attack speed.

1. Thoron & Bolgannon can both be forged, which is actually an argument you used earlier

2. They're not going to weigh him down. Sage Merric gets 3 Str.

3. You need a C to use Starlight. He'll get that C.

Bolgannon/Elfire can be used when you don't need Excalibur.

It's called sarcasm. A Cleric with a higher durability is still a Cleric. So in my opinion, a Cleric with better durability holds little weight because they're still clerics, the worst defensive unit in the game, next to bow users.

Merric is actually *more* defensive as a Cleric than as a Mage. Also, bow users being defensively deficient is also factually wrong.

2. Low movement, so they might not even get to the front lines, and if they do, they weigh your party backwards.

Lol no.

3. Low defense.

Merric gets enough HP to make up for it, and he can actually gain a couple of Defense points.

4. They have constant 1~2 range, while physical units most of the time may have 1, so take advantage of attacking afar.

You start seeing far more forged Javelins on the hardest difficulty. This is where putting a Mage that can take a Javelin hit comes in handy. And again, better durability as a Sage means that you can make emergency heals with less risk of having ot restart, and he can attack a bit more freely. Better durability = MORE FLEXIBILITY IN TACTICAL VALUE. Edited December 18, 2008 by FE3 Player

[Dr. Tarrasque]

First of all, all of the magic users can't take hits so Merric is the best. So Merric>all magic users. Yet Shiida is behind garbage like Raddy Caesar, and Roger. I don't really get it. I said her I want moved up a couple notches, not up to Merric's level.

And what kind of person would put a Sage in the front lines?

Sometimes mages are your best option for a counter-attack. Since Merric can take hits, he's a great counter-attacker. The others... LOL.

A C in magic doesn't net a whole lot because he'll be using Excalibur, instead of Thoron and Bolgannone, magic that has less use and brings down his attack speed.

Excalibur is best saved for GOOD uses (Dracoknights in H5 for example). Fire and Thunder tomes are decent and the AS loss from Thoron and Bolganone aren't too much of a problem since they'll be switched to Sage.

It's called sarcasm. A Cleric with a higher durability is still a Cleric. So in my opinion, a Cleric with better durability holds little weight because they're still clerics, the worst defensive unit in the game, next to bow users.

That's while they're Cleric/Curate. It changes after promotion since you'll switch them to sage due to bishops being pathetic.

In my opinion, magic units shouldn't be in the front lines because:

1. No WTA.

2. Low movement, so they might not even get to the front lines, and if they do, they weigh your party backwards.

3. Low defense.

4. They have constant 1~2 range, while physical units most of the time may have 1, so take advantage of attacking afar.

When you're not in the front lines, you don't worry about getting hit, so the whole durability holds nothing. So why is she still at a 3 tier advantage? Because he gets 3HKO'd by a weak unit? Physical units do it better.

1. Not a big deal.

2. Probably true on normal if your party's nothing but mounted and flying units, null on H5.

3. Duh, but that's what makes Merric really good, he's got great durability and being a good magic user, his counter-attacks are great.

4. True that. But what's not to like about a Sage who can actually deal some good counter-attack damage?

That durability Merric has over every other mage means Merric can dish out good counter-attacks and you don't have to worry much about having a wall around him.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Boo

[thunderstrife]

First of all, all of the magic users can't take hits so Merric is the best. So Merric>all magic users. Yet Shiida is behind garbage like Raddy Caesar, and Roger. I don't really get it. I said her I want moved up a couple notches, not up to Merric's level.

Just because noone has addressed it, Caesar/Raddy are ok in this game (though admittedly underleveled. Roger...has defense <_<.

[Clonez]

Alright, you win. I wasn't arguing Shiida up to Merric's level anyways. I was just using that as an example that Shiida is better than her tier placement since she compares offensively nicely to a top-tier unit, even in H5, so I thought she should be placed higher.

But I still don't get how Shiida is placed lower on the tier list. Units that are ahead of her have stat issues (Roger), being outclassed by a unit that does your job no matter what the situation (Ricardo has lower bases than base level Julian and comes later) and level/weapon issues (Raddy/Caesar).

Edited December 18, 2008 by Clonez

[Rodykitty]

Shiida on the H5 tier list is there because her wing spear gives her utility.

Mage is the only reason she's in Low on the NM tier list, like said before. She gets little strength growth, and is too reliant on the Wing Spear to function, which isn't needed on NM to kill things.

Caesar is actually a decent unit.

[Dat Nick]

Caesar's bases and weapon are fine for the chapter he joins, really, and he holds up solid when levelled.

Also, Shiida's stats are so much hardcore failure that Radd beats her in just a few levelups.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Berserkah2DaBladah

[Mekkah]

What is this bull about Merric getting the first Master Seal? It's not reserved for him. Him taking the first Master Seal = taking it away from others.

Again, Chainy's position is still ridiculous. You're putting an inferior version of everyone an entire tier over people with much more availability than him.

Wolf, for example, is pretty much similar to Zagarro for the entire time, and 99% as win as Zag is. Then Chain comes in, and transforms into a ~20 HP version of Zag or something, and he's an entire tier above Wolf?

[Rodykitty]

What is this bull about Merric getting the first Master Seal? It's not reserved for him. Him taking the first Master Seal = taking it away from others.

It's because as a healer, he would be getting to level 20 far before anyone else. There would be no reason not to give it to him, because healing gives so much EXP in this game. He's not getting the seal because of favortism, he's getting the seal because nobody else can use it (provided he is leveled up as a healer). If you're not training Merric as a Curate, then some other healer is getting the Seal first. No questions asked.

Again, Chainy's position is still ridiculous. You're putting an inferior version of everyone an entire tier over people with much more availability than him.

Wolf, for example, is pretty much similar to Zagarro for the entire time, and 99% as win as Zag is. Then Chain comes in, and transforms into a ~20 HP version of Zag or something, and he's an entire tier above Wolf?

Chainy actually copies Max HP now (he has to be healed, though). This makes him exactly the same as Zagaro. He even gains EXP while in transformed form, so he no longer wastes as much EXP like he used to. Edited December 18, 2008 by FE3 Player

[Mekkah]

I'm aware of him copying max HP. The problem is still that he has to be healed, making him inferior to what he's copying. Much more inferior than someone who's been around with practically the same amount of win but for much longer.

[Rodykitty]

And that is why he is not above or equal to Sedgar in tier list position, just in the same tier category (Clint Eastwood).

And even if you don't want to heal him, he's barely going to take damage since his defense is so high, and against Mages you would want him to copy a Sage anyway (oh wow, I just thought of an advantage he has that Sedgar doesn't).

As for Wolf, apparently the only reason he isn't Clint Eastwood tier is that while his Defense growths are still insane as a General, they don't go up as fast, giving him more vulnerability playtime.

Edited December 18, 2008 by FE3 Player

[Dat Nick]

Inded. It would surprise you how much of a diffrence there really is between Zag and Wolf. Give Zag 5 levels and everything goes tink. Give Wolf 5 [actually, with the level diffrence, you could probably only get 4 with the same amount of kills] and he's still taking damage.

And no, when you are complete win, your poor jointime is excused a little. Otherwise Catria wouldn't be so high. Copying Zagaro is epic win. Also, on the very first turn of the player phase, your healers don't have anybody ELSE to heal. Chainy is awesome from the second he joins to endgame. Wolf starts out terrible, takes a while to recover from it, but is also h4x endgame, but not as h4x as Chainy. Seems fair to give Chainy the win.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Berserkah2DaBladah

[Lord Raven]

1. No WTA.

2. Low movement, so they might not even get to the front lines, and if they do, they weigh your party backwards.

3. Low defense.

4. They have constant 1~2 range, while physical units most of the time may have 1, so take advantage of attacking afar.

When you're not in the front lines, you don't worry about getting hit, so the whole durability holds nothing. So why is he still at a 3 tier advantage? Because he gets 3HKO'd by a weak unit? Physical units do it better.

This is a huge generalization. I'm pretty sure that mages like Pent (different game but suck me) can handle the frontlines just fine. You judge on a unit by unit basis, the class is irrelevant. (mainly in reference to #3)

If they're not near the frontlines, they're only able to attack once per turn. Giving them the offensive capabilities of a sniper. Considering how borked magic can be I guess it wouldn't matter too much.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Nathan Graves

[Dat Nick]

Chill. He already conceded. I didn't bite his ass off for a reason.

I was beaten to the punch >_>

[Robert]

Hold up!

Chainy is that good?

Doga is that bad?

Raddy is that bad?

Ellis is that bad?

Norne is that bad?

Marth is better that Oguma?

[Sylvan]

Why is Bord (saji) below Samson? Bord makes a good hero, and his crit rate is extreme as a berserker, although his speed sucks. He is useful, certainly he is at least more usable than some of the other junk you get.

No one except pre-promotes should be below Samson. I had one look at his averages, I shuddered, This guy only *just* beats Jagen. And you get him frikkin late in the game.

And personally, I don't see why everyone is so determined to say Wolf and Sedgar are so godly. Their growth are great, yeah, but their bases suck. I mean, a lvl 1 mercenary has better bases than either of them, and they are promoted. Given the extra 20 levels non-prepromted units get, their averages are almost always better.

Wolf and Sedgar are about the only pre-promotes that should even be considered half decent. Most of them are extremely bad.

EDIT: I'm using the english names, because that's what I'm familiar with. . . sorry if it causes confusion.

EDIT EDIT: minerva above shiida? no way.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Sylvan

[Rodykitty]

Their growth are great, yeah, but their bases suck. I mean, a lvl 1 mercenary has better bases than either of them, and they are promoted. Given the extra 20 levels non-prepromted units get, their averages are almost always better.

Except that Sedgar and Wolf can be class swapped at CHAPTER 6, and by the time they get to level 10, NO UNIT is going to catch up to either of them until the very late game. They're there for a huge portion of the game.

[Sylvan]

Except that Sedgar and Wolf can be class swapped at CHAPTER 6, and by the time they get to level 10, NO UNIT is going to catch up to either of them until the very late game. They're there for a huge portion of the game.

I beg to differ on that comment, because in the late game they get overtaken. And if you've used up the exp on them early, you'll be left without the really strong units by the end, you'll just have mediocre ones.

I guess if this list is only for playing through the game, then that's an alright argument to use. However, if you want a wifi team, they aren't the ones to pick.

I don't want to argument them down, I just wanted to know why everyone thought they were so godly.

EDIT: chapter 6 isn't extremely quick, if you include the prologue.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Sylvan

[Rodykitty]

They're not going to be overtaken late game. They're going to reach a much higher potential sooner, and will reach full potential before any character will.

Even training them is apparently not that hard. Just train them like you would any other unit, without sacrificing EXP from other units. Their growths are so high that they'll be feeling the gain even if you distribute EXP towards other units.

EDIT: Prologue, eh? If you're talking about Normal Mode, then all they have to do is Class Swap and they've pretty much won the game.

Edited December 19, 2008 by FE3 Player

[Sylvan]

EDIT: Prologue, eh? If you're talking about Normal Mode, then all they have to do is Class Swap and they've pretty much won the game.

It did say the list wax for normal mode.

I'll go with that logic though =D

I don't like the bottom of the tier list though. . .

[Dr. Tarrasque]

All 4 prologues together are less than 10 minutes... unless you're reading everything.

What FE3 said is true, I had Sedgar and Wolf take most hits and dish out the most counter-attacks in the game and my entire team has pretty decent levels (Chapter 24x prep screen):

Marth 22

Cain 13

Barst 16

Ogma 10

Catria 11

Lena 16

Merric 15

Abel 15

Wolf 19

Sedgar 19.98

No abuse.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Boo

[Rodykitty]

Before we go any further...

The tier list is for Single-Player. A WiFi tier list would look completely different.

[Sylvan]

The prologue takes less than 10 mins but can REALLY boost levels. Give 1 char all the weapons and boom, they become unstoppable for the rest of the game (unless it's jegan >.>;;)

I even got marth to take down a few of those knights rather than decoy, he can get that strong.