Question about the wyverns' seemingly lack of ability to use breath attacks.

[Nozomi Kasaki]

Wyverns are like the dominant aerial assets for the air forces of the factions in the Fire Emblem franchise. Countries such as Macedon, Bern, and Thracia are very well known for their dominant wyvern air power and are likely what makes them so feared in the battlefield (at least as far as I can see. I don't know I could be wrong, but if I am, please don't hesitate to correct me on this one).

However, there is something that bugs me about these wyverns whenever I observe how wyvern knights fight alongside their, well wyverns. Why are these wyverns not breathing fire or any kind of elemental breaths to use as a weapon against enemies? I mean, we already saw dragons use breath attacks against their enemies in FE games, so why can't wyverns? Wouldn't having that ability be a bit more helpful at killing enemies or harassing ground troops than simply having their riders use javelins or axes as their only primary weapons with said melee weapons being only used in close-quarter combat against enemy wyvern riders or something?

There is probably some gameplay reason behind this, but does the games provide any in-lore explanations about the wyverns' lack of ability to use breath attacks? If not, do you guys at least have some kind of plausible scientific or magical speculations about the wyverns' inability to use breath attacks like other dragons in the series?

Edited April 1, 2023 by Nozomi Kasaki

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, from what I recall, not all wyverns across the franchise are stated to have the ability. Since most of the time they are not actually related to the dragons. Best I know, it's only the Archanean ones who do, since they are the Flying/Wyvern clan, so they too are degenerated dragons. Thus they also can breath fire. By association, I recall Awakening wyverns can also breath fire, but since they are the same as Archanean ones so no surprises there. Of course, I don't recall at the moment if wyverns from other continents can also breath fire, but at the moment I don't recall that they can.

Ultimately, I think it is just a gameplay thing that they don't use their breath attacks when we fight them with riders. In Archanea it is odd since we do fight "wild" Wyverns, who do breath fire. Now, as for a story reason if it exists... beats me, admittedly. Maybe since using the breath means having to get close to the enemy, it's best to just rain down javelins or hand axes from above? At least, thanks to gravity, they do have longer reach than the breath.

[Eltosian Kadath]

If you want some theories, my guess is that a Wyvern using its breath weapon would endanger its rider too much, and the rider is needed to control the Wyvern enough to prevent rampant friendly fire.

[ping]

I've seen wyverns in other media be associated with being venomous and not breathing fire (or any other element). In Baldur's Gate, a character identifies reports about "dragons" as actually describing wyverns because they mention poison barbs; in the ancient 4X game Master of Magic, the Orcish special unit, the Wyvern Rider, also has a poison attack.

This is kind of a "just so" explaination, of course, and I don't know of any FE game mentioning poison when talking about wyverns, but it's still plausible that wyverns in settings other than Akaneia just happen to be a species of flying lizards that don't have fire-breathing abilities, and not dragons by another name.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Maybe they just put a muzzle on the wyvern's mouth.

Even from a gameplay perspective the question of whether wyverns are a species of dragon is weird. In FE9 wyvern riders are not vulnerable to thunder magic but then they are in the sequel. In FE1 they're vulnerable to the dragonslayer, but not in FE3 or FE11. Tiki's mist breath is not effective against wyverns in FE1, but it is in FE3 and FE11. I know that detail isn't listed on SF or the (good) wiki for FE3, but I can confirm it in Chapter 18 the only scenario where Tiki can face wyverns with mist breath. In Book 1 her stone grants Ice Breath instead.

[Alastor15243]

That's what Savage Blow is in Japanese, apparently, but they changed it in english, probably because after reclassing it made no goddamned sense.

[Metal Flash]

I remember FE12 Wyvern enemies could use a fire breath attack, but I don`t remember if it was explained why wyvern mounts can`t/don`t do the same.

[SnowFire]

Attempting to have flying units in FE "make sense" is a perilous venture in general.  The settings often assume that wyverns / pegasi can fly reasonably high and safely, yet they stay incredibly close to the ground to let themselves be engaged upon?  At least I can understand that "skirmisher" type fliers that solely drop rocks / arrows on foes helpless to fight back will rapidly run out of ammunition and either need to fly back to the base for more, or else do some knightly lance charges in the thick of it.  If fliers also had some sort of magical breath attack, then they really shouldn't be landing and getting in the thick of it ever.  Which is lame and not what we narratively "want" to have happen, so better nerf that.

Put things another way, suppose in a more technological setting you are fighting an army that has a squadron of people equipped with jetpacks.  That's a lot more OP if you also give them recoilless lightweight rocket launchers rather than swords.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Crazy idea: the ability to breathe fire has been "bred out" of the Wyverns that people ride. Why? It's simple, really - a Wyvern that can breathe fire poses a much greater threat to its master. How can I expect to tame and control a beast that can incinerate me at a moment's notice? The Wyverns who didn't breathe fire made for the safest and most docile mounts. And by breeding these ones for generations, this inability have become dominant in domesticated Wyverns.

[Whisky]

Wyverns and Dragons are not the same. Dragons in FE are people with equal intelligence to humans. Wyverns seem to be like regular animals. Breathing fire just isn’t something they can do. They do share some similar characteristics in that weapons effective against Dragons are also effective against Wyverns, but that’s about it.

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, Whisky said:

Wyverns and Dragons are not the same. Dragons in FE are people with equal intelligence to humans. Wyverns seem to be like regular animals. Breathing fire just isn’t something they can do. They do share some similar characteristics in that weapons effective against Dragons are also effective against Wyverns, but that’s about it.

Depends on the game. In Archanea, Wyverns are one of the Dragon clans, with the Wyverns people ride being dragons that didn't seal their draconic forms into Dragon Stones, and degenerated into a more feral animalistic form. Fun fact in (New) Mystery you not only face wild Wyverns, but can also get a Wyvern Dragon Stone from one of the secret shops to get your Manakete to transform into a Wyvern.

[Shadow Mir]

On 4/2/2023 at 11:13 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Crazy idea: the ability to breathe fire has been "bred out" of the Wyverns that people ride. Why? It's simple, really - a Wyvern that can breathe fire poses a much greater threat to its master. How can I expect to tame and control a beast that can incinerate me at a moment's notice? The Wyverns who didn't breathe fire made for the safest and most docile mounts. And by breeding these ones for generations, this inability have become dominant in domesticated Wyverns.

That's my take on it. Also, I'd think that them breathing fire could potentially cause collateral damage. Look at, for example, Engage chapter 17, where you're fighting in a burning town. Fire breathing wyverns would prolly make things worse.

1 hour ago, Whisky said:

Wyverns and Dragons are not the same. Dragons in FE are people with equal intelligence to humans. Wyverns seem to be like regular animals. Breathing fire just isn’t something they can do. They do share some similar characteristics in that weapons effective against Dragons are also effective against Wyverns, but that’s about it.

That depends on the game. The Archanea games have the Wyrmslayer be effective against dragons, but NOT against dracoknights.

[Whisky]

6 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Depends on the game. In Archanea, Wyverns are one of the Dragon clans, with the Wyverns people ride being dragons that didn't seal their draconic forms into Dragon Stones, and degenerated into a more feral animalistic form. Fun fact in (New) Mystery you not only face wild Wyverns, but can also get a Wyvern Dragon Stone from one of the secret shops to get your Manakete to transform into a Wyvern.

 

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

That depends on the game. The Archanea games have the Wyrmslayer be effective against dragons, but NOT against dracoknights.

Oh I see. I was mostly thinking of the Elibe games. And Dragons and Wyverns seem to be completely different in most of the series.. except for Archanea apparently, which seems awkward that people are riding around basically less developed people. PoR made a point that it was messed up for Ashnard to ride a dragon.

[Acacia Sgt]

47 minutes ago, Whisky said:

Oh I see. I was mostly thinking of the Elibe games. And Dragons and Wyverns seem to be completely different in most of the series.. except for Archanea apparently, which seems awkward that people are riding around basically less developed people. PoR made a point that it was messed up for Ashnard to ride a dragon.

To be fair, the first wyvern riders were escapee slaves from the First Dohluna Empire. I don't think they minded too much the roles had reversed.

[Jotari]

On an add on document to my class tree I gave a breath attack to Wyvern Lord as their mastery skill and I still think it's a good idea.

On 4/3/2023 at 1:13 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Crazy idea: the ability to breathe fire has been "bred out" of the Wyverns that people ride. Why? It's simple, really - a Wyvern that can breathe fire poses a much greater threat to its master. How can I expect to tame and control a beast that can incinerate me at a moment's notice? The Wyverns who didn't breathe fire made for the safest and most docile mounts. And by breeding these ones for generations, this inability have become dominant in domesticated Wyverns.

I was going to suggest a similar theory, only instead of it being bred out they physically remove the wyverns ability to do it to make them more tame, like a non sex based gelding. Though either explanation wouldn't really explain the few times we do have reference to them breathing fire in supports and stuff.