Would any of you actually be upset by "canonized" pairings?

[Samz707]

As long as they aren't awful pairings, I wouldnt mind.

 

I do think canon pairings should mostly be in adaptations.

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

I feel like regarding lord characters I'd be fine with canon pairings but the rest of the army it depends, because everyone has different opinions on who should be with who (be it for best child units, supports, or how they aid each other in battle), I think they should leave that open unless they plan on doing a sequel of some type w child units or descendants. 

Spoiler

But Olivia x Lon'qu is canon to me idc what anyone says, they're shyness coming together to birth Inigo/Laslow and then him having Soleil just makes so much sense to me.

Like I wouldn't mind if they had remade Awakening and made Chrom x Sumia canon, as it's very clearly a Marth/Caeda callback (they should have made it canon from the get go, idk why they included that scene in the intro if they were going to do otherwise.) 

Same goes for Eliwood x Ninian & Roy x Lilina

Edited May 8 by DivineDragon_Goddess

[UNLEASH IT]

Considering the reaction people had to Awakening pushing Chrom and Sumia together when the game was released, I don't think canonising pairings in a sequel is a good idea on IntSys' part(it wasn't a good idea in FE5 either)

[NotYourKindOfPeople]

18 hours ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Considering the reaction people had to Awakening pushing Chrom and Sumia together when the game was released, I don't think canonising pairings in a sequel is a good idea on IntSys' part(it wasn't a good idea in FE5 either)

The problem with Chrom x Sumia was that if that is supposed to be the canon pairing, then why bother even giving Chrom more romance options? Chrom should have been locked to Sumia & fRobin only. I know many fans who support Chrom X Olivia, but even that gets thrown out the window by Fates when Laslow doesn't acknowledge Lucina as his sibling and starts flirting with her.

My guess is that Chrom was always designed to be with Sumia (as a nod to Marth x Caeda), but someone in the staff was worried about players who would want to ship themselves with Sumia or Chrom. Thus, it was removed late into the game and even the FMV was left unchanged. 

[ciphertul]

41 minutes ago, NotYourKindOfPeople said:

My guess is that Chrom was always designed to be with Sumia (as a nod to Marth x Caeda), but someone in the staff was worried about players who would want to ship themselves with Sumia or Chrom. Thus, it was removed late into the game and even the FMV was left unchanged. 

But at the same time neither gets the full list, one will only have 5 options while the other only gets 4. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, NotYourKindOfPeople said:

My guess is that Chrom was always designed to be with Sumia (as a nod to Marth x Caeda), but someone in the staff was worried about players who would want to ship themselves with Sumia or Chrom. Thus, it was removed late into the game and even the FMV was left unchanged. 

That's what I'd guess as well. Chrom and Sumia were meant to be the Deirdre x Sigurd couple that produces a predetermined child. But then a decision was made that the Avatar should be able to support everyone, so their official status was broken up. Which also might be why Sumia has fewer supports (Chrom, presumably would have supported a lot of people just by being the main character and turning the female ones into S supports wasn't difficult).

If we compare and contrast to Kris, who can support everyone, but can only get romantically involved in half a dozen. Avatars being able to reproduce with anyone wasn't a given at the time and could easily have been decided on partway through Awakening.

[NotYourKindOfPeople]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That's what I'd guess as well. Chrom and Sumia were meant to be the Deirdre x Sigurd couple that produces a predetermined child. But then a decision was made that the Avatar should be able to support everyone, so their official status was broken up. Which also might be why Sumia has fewer supports (Chrom, presumably would have supported a lot of people just by being the main character and turning the female ones into S supports wasn't difficult).

If we compare and contrast to Kris, who can support everyone, but can only get romantically involved in half a dozen. Avatars being able to reproduce with anyone wasn't a given at the time and could easily have been decided on partway through Awakening.

Engage had the right idea by making romances avatar-exclusive, it wasn't executed the best way but the idea was great. That leaves room for other characters to be their own people instead of just standing & waiting to wed the person standing right next to them. 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I would HATE it if romances were avatar-exclusive. Avatar romances are, in my opinion, usually worse than the rest. It'd be a bad direction for the series to go.

[Metal Flash]

I would also hate for romances to be avatar exclusive. That being said, support-based romances suffer from being wishy-washy in writing, cause they can`t confirm or deny if the pair ends up together until the end. Then again, the only other alternatives I can think of would be some events ala Tear Ring Saga, or limiting pairs only to canon/pre-determined ones like SoV.

It is possible that ChromxSumia was meant to be a canon pair in emulation of MarthxShida, but then the decision was made to copy Genealogy and pair everyone. Might explain Sumia holding baby Lucina in the opening.

Edited May 10 by Metal Flash

[Jotari]

Fire Emblem should just branch into two series. One a turn based strategy and the other a series of romantic visual novels.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Fire Emblem should just branch into two series. One a turn based strategy and the other a series of romantic visual novels.

And to progress through either game you need both on your Switch.

Bisniz

[NotYourKindOfPeople]

7 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I would HATE it if romances were avatar-exclusive. Avatar romances are, in my opinion, usually worse than the rest. It'd be a bad direction for the series to go.

But these days the avatar is the protagonist of the story. Wouldn't that just be locking the romance option to the character the story revolves around?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

7 hours ago, NotYourKindOfPeople said:

But these days the avatar is the protagonist of the story. Wouldn't that just be locking the romance option to the character the story revolves around?

No, because after romance options became a thing in Genealogy of the Holy War, Fire Emblem has never locked the romance options to just the main protagonists. The sole exception is Binding Blade, where only Roy gets the options, and I'd argue that's a bad part of Binding.

Ayra, Edain, Kent, Sain, Innes, L'Arachel, Stahl, Cordelia, Inigo, Kaze, etc., characters aside from the main protagonist got romance options. Including characters where an avatar is the main character (Awakening, Fates, Three Houses). Taking that away isn't something I'd want, and I didn't like it in Engage.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

And isn't it just a little tiring to see these sex-less JRPG worlds over and over again? Where's there's obvious feelings of attraction, but everyone was clearly pulled out of sex-ed and nobody talks about it? Living a life in fear of their own Sinful thought. Ayra's already cool with being this dangerous red unit on the battlefield and using Astra. But the coolest thing about her is that she's DTF. That makes her super compelling and relatable. I want her to make it home from every fight so that she can Give Gold and then some. I wouldn't buy for a second that she'd be attracted to me or my milk-paste avatar in Fire Emblem Echoes of the Holy War. I can't compete with Arden's muscle adVantage, or Best Sex Lex. 

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Fire Emblem should just branch into two series. One a turn based strategy and the other a series of romantic visual novels.

F it. We're getting a third mode to the left of Casual. Cut the gameplay, replace it with a developer's playthrough (skippable), and now players can skip straight to the fishing mini game between chapters

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

And isn't it just a little tiring to see these sex-less JRPG worlds over and over again? Where's there's obvious feelings of attraction, but everyone was clearly pulled out of sex-ed and nobody talks about it? Living a life in fear of their own Sinful thought. Ayra's already cool with being this dangerous red unit on the battlefield and using Astra. But the coolest thing about her is that she's DTF. That makes her super compelling and relatable. I want her to make it home from every fight so that she can Give Gold and then some. I wouldn't buy for a second that she'd be attracted to me or my milk-paste avatar in Fire Emblem Echoes of the Holy War. I can't compete with Arden's muscle adVantage, or Best Sex Lex. 

F it. We're getting a third mode to the left of Casual. Cut the gameplay, replace it with a developer's playthrough (skippable), and now players can skip straight to the fishing mini game between chapters

I have yet to see any evidence that sex exist in the Fire Emblem universe. Babies just appear when S rank is achieved.

[Metal Flash]

15 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

And isn't it just a little tiring to see these sex-less JRPG worlds over and over again? Where's there's obvious feelings of attraction, but everyone was clearly pulled out of sex-ed and nobody talks about it? Living a life in fear of their own Sinful thought. Ayra's already cool with being this dangerous red unit on the battlefield and using Astra. But the coolest thing about her is that she's DTF. That makes her super compelling and relatable. I want her to make it home from every fight so that she can Give Gold and then some. I wouldn't buy for a second that she'd be attracted to me or my milk-paste avatar in Fire Emblem Echoes of the Holy War. I can't compete with Arden's muscle adVantage, or Best Sex Lex. 

Reminds me of that village lady in Echoes who wanted to "thank" Saber for dealing with the pirate problem. Implications like that could be a way to, for the lack of a better term, "sex up" FE.

if we do get that arranged marriage Lord couple like I want, there needs to be a mandatory event that confirms the couple had a child, cause the bloodline needs to continue dammit. And as a plot point, it could put concerned nobles at ease, knowing the line of succession is now secure.

Edited May 11 by Metal Flash

[Seazas]

Shipping is one of FE's most successful ideas yet. Trying to take that away for canon pairings is a really bad idea.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I like the idea of canon pairings in FE, that are canon within the game they're introduced. Pent and Louise being already married, or Sigurd and Deirdre getting together regardless of the player's choices otherwise. That's fine and good. Though, they're gonna keep doing them in the future I hope we get some canon same-gender pairings in there, too.

On the other hand, I don't really like the idea of taking a previous game where player choice for pairings was a big factor and then canonizing them. As already stated by @AnonymousSpeed and others, that's just invalidating player choice.  You could do it if the sequel story required it or benefitted from it, but without a good argument for such I'd prefer if they steered clear.

[Metal Flash]

Yeah, canonizing pairings from games like Awakening or Fates would just piss players off.

That being said, I would still be up for canon pairs in future FE titles. And yeah, canon same-sex couple would be great too.

[Acacia Sgt]

I feel the opposite. Keeping things open-ended to avoid stepping on the players' toes over their choices feels that it constricts the developers/writers, as it means they are limited over what they can do when moving forward. They shouldn't be restricted like that.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I feel the opposite. Keeping things open-ended to avoid stepping on the players' toes over their choices feels that it constricts the developers/writers, as it means they are limited over what they can do when moving forward. They shouldn't be restricted like that.

There's truth there, but only if they actually have much interested in revisiting any of these settings, which increasingly it seems they don't. It used to be they'd get two game mileage out of every Fire Emblem setting. Not necessarily in direct sequels, but each setting offered two games worth of content. Magvel, for a time, stood out as the only setting with just one game (people probably should have classed Valentia as that too, but a few Archanea characters makes the difference in people's mind). Ever since Awakening, though, it seems they're perfectly content to just have one game per setting (or maybe, one release per setting since Fates is kind of three games). The only time we've revisited a setting in the past ten years has been in Three Hopes, a spin off that takes the parallel story option rather than a sequel (or prequel or interequel).

In other words, canon couples are kind of a moot point so long they keep on making each title in a new setting.

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There's truth there, but only if they actually have much interested in revisiting any of these settings, which increasingly it seems they don't. It used to be they'd get two game mileage out of every Fire Emblem setting. Not necessarily in direct sequels, but each setting offered two games worth of content. Magvel, for a time, stood out as the only setting with just one game (people probably should have classed Valentia as that too, but a few Archanea characters makes the difference in people's mind). Ever since Awakening, though, it seems they're perfectly content to just have one game per setting (or maybe, one release per setting since Fates is kind of three games). The only time we've revisited a setting in the past ten years has been in Three Hopes, a spin off that takes the parallel story option rather than a sequel (or prequel or interequel).

In other words, canon couples are kind of a moot point so long they keep on making each title in a new setting.

Well, this is precisely what I'm getting at: A byproduct of having to appease the fans. As a result, we might no longer see sequel works, for instance, because it'd mean having to stablish a hard canon to certain things that were left to choices. Three Hopes is a result of this, an AU spin-off that in itself branches off into its own paths, still avoiding having a hard canon. So once again, we can't expect a sequel work to Hopes.

Sometimes, it's not wise to let the fans take over...

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, this is precisely what I'm getting at: A byproduct of having to appease the fans. As a result, we might no longer see sequel works, for instance, because it'd mean having to stablish a hard canon to certain things that were left to choices. Three Hopes is a result of this, an AU spin-off that in itself branches off into its own paths, still avoiding having a hard canon. So once again, we can't expect a sequel work to Hopes.

Sometimes, it's not wise to let the fans take over...

I think that might be a bit of a chicken and an egg scenario. Are we not seeing more titles in the same settings because of canonizing couples, or are we not seeing canonized couples because we're not seeing the same setting? It feels like it might be putting a bit too much weight on coupling if it's the former. After all, the settings they've made since Awakening, I don't hugely feel like we need sequels for, and even in the pre Awakening games there were only two direct sequels were canonizing couples would even be part of the discussion (though Thracia, is the one game to actually do it despite not being a direct sequel). Like, canonized couples wouldn't stop them at all from making an Awakening prequel. Who Chrom marries isn't relevant at all if Chrom is a seven year old.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Jotari said:

I think that might be a bit of a chicken and an egg scenario. Are we not seeing more titles in the same settings because of canonizing couples, or are we not seeing canonized couples because we're not seeing the same setting? It feels like it might be putting a bit too much weight on coupling if it's the former. After all, the settings they've made since Awakening, I don't hugely feel like we need sequels for, and even in the pre Awakening games there were only two direct sequels were canonizing couples would even be part of the discussion (though Thracia, is the one game to actually do it despite not being a direct sequel). Like, canonized couples wouldn't stop them at all from making an Awakening prequel. Who Chrom marries isn't relevant at all if Chrom is a seven year old.

I think it's more: The developers are making things more open ended for the sake of the fans, thus as a result there's little room for new works in the same setting unless they do something like an AU work.

I mean, did Shadow Dragon felt like it needed a sequel? Whether or not a work needs a prequel or a sequel or a spin-off, it matters little since the writers can always come up with something to justify it.

[Metal Flash]

I mean, if they really wanted to make a sequel to a game where pairings are player determined, they could have data transfered from the first entry determine the parentage of certain characters in the sequel. Might be complicated to do, but still possible.