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What if magic in Fire Emblem have scientific explanations on how they work?


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I know this question may sound silly considering the fact that magic doesn't exist and the fact that they don't seem to follow our laws of physics.

But let's just say that magic in Fire Emblem could be an extension to the laws of physics or a unique subset of said laws.

So if that is the case, what do you think could be a scientific explanation on how people can cast fire and ice? How are people able to use magic using tomes? What do you think is the scientific explanation on how Imhullu makes Gharnef immune to all attacks except for Starlight?

Basically, what do you think are the scientific explanations or theories for every magical stuff that is happening in Fire Emblem if magic is considered to be a subset of the laws of physics of Fire Emblem's world.

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I always thought that the tomes was some type of battery where this elemental energy was flowing through whomever was holding them.

Still doesn't explains how it manages to drop a giant burning rock on people, though

Edited by Armchair General
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12 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

I always thought that the tomes was some type of battery where this elemental energy was flowing through whomever was holding them.

Still doesn't explains how it manages to drop a giant burning rock on people, though

Well, Kaga had this to say regarding magic:

Q3: What is magic in the world of Fire Emblem?

Comment: Originally primitive deities existed at Akaneia and people believed these deities existed in all things. To lead mankind, Gotoh utilised the power of these deities. Magic (both offensive and recovery) is about as advanced as the dragon race’s technology, but it was difficult and dangerous for humans to use. Gotoh convinced humans to borrow the deities’ powers and warned them at the same time. So fire magic comes from the deity of fire, wind magic is borrowed from the deity of wind and etc. Magic is thus the technology where one harnesses energy that exists naturally. Spell books and staves can be thought of as vessels that store this energy. To release this energy requires a certain amount of skill, such as by chanting keywords or through mental control techniques. In order to acquire a sufficient skill level, one must undergo self-training. Prayers to the deities seems to reveal the keywords, while it also raises one’s mental capacity. Meanwhile, to protect the most powerful spells, like Aura or Excalibur, Gotoh attached a contract to them so that only the user could wield them. The same kind of protection was also placed on the Falchion.

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10 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, Kaga had this to say regarding magic:

Q3: What is magic in the world of Fire Emblem?

Comment: Originally primitive deities existed at Akaneia and people believed these deities existed in all things. To lead mankind, Gotoh utilised the power of these deities. Magic (both offensive and recovery) is about as advanced as the dragon race’s technology, but it was difficult and dangerous for humans to use. Gotoh convinced humans to borrow the deities’ powers and warned them at the same time. So fire magic comes from the deity of fire, wind magic is borrowed from the deity of wind and etc. Magic is thus the technology where one harnesses energy that exists naturally. Spell books and staves can be thought of as vessels that store this energy. To release this energy requires a certain amount of skill, such as by chanting keywords or through mental control techniques. In order to acquire a sufficient skill level, one must undergo self-training. Prayers to the deities seems to reveal the keywords, while it also raises one’s mental capacity. Meanwhile, to protect the most powerful spells, like Aura or Excalibur, Gotoh attached a contract to them so that only the user could wield them. The same kind of protection was also placed on the Falchion.

Would be kind of an great idea to challenge those elemental gods in a bid for an exclusive spell. We've already seen it with the Rainbow Sage and two of the Four Saints.

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Magic in Fire Emblem is usually depicted as something that can be studied and standardized in the way that natural forces can, and therefore probably doesn't meet an actual definition of magic.

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26 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Magic in Fire Emblem is usually depicted as something that can be studied and standardized in the way that natural forces can, and therefore probably doesn't meet an actual definition of magic.

Well, outside being subjected to academic study in Fodlan despite ironically being named Faith Magic (or I guess it's more like Theology?), Light Magic seems to align closest to what we could call "magic".

It's certainly seen that way in some settings, like Magvel's:

From Knoll and Natasha's supports:

Knoll: Hm… Well, I suppose you are right about that. Your magic stems from faith in the unknowable, the divine presence. In contrast, dark magic stems from knowledge, from understanding. We distrust what we do not understand, and we strive to know the unknowable. Perhaps our disciplines truly are incompatible.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/9/2023 at 2:05 AM, Nozomi Kasaki said:

What do you think is the scientific explanation on how Imhullu makes Gharnef immune to all attacks except for Starlight?

We actually do have an explanation as to how Imhullu works. It doesn't actually make Gharnef immune from harm. It uses fear magic to make people unable to attack him. So he's not actually tanking hits, he just doesn't get any attacks launched at him in the first place. This is reflected in gameplay too where your attacks just don't play if you try to engage him (or Hardin, who is using the same power). Presumably Gharnef could be killed anticlimacticly by falling rocks or something if he got unlucky. A good old spike pit trap should be surprisingly effective too if people had to plan a way to knock him off. Seems like it would be easier to arrange than the trouble of getting all those orbs was.

Edited by Jotari
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On 5/29/2023 at 11:08 AM, Jotari said:

We actually do have an explanation as to how Imhullu works. It doesn't actually make Gharnef immune from harm. It uses fear magic to make people unable to attack him. So he's not actually tanking hits, he just doesn't get any attacks launched at him in the first place. This is reflected in gameplay too where your attacks just don't play if you try to engage him (or Hardin, who is using the same power). Presumably Gharnef could be killed anticlimacticly by falling rocks or something if he got unlucky. A good old spike pit trap should be surprisingly effective too if people had to plan a way to knock him off. Seems like it would be easier to arrange than the trouble of getting all those orbs was.

Oh... I see. That seems very interesting. So basically, the magic coming from Imhullu was "programmed" to stimulate any attackers' brain to incline towards fear or something like that?

Also, I am just curious, where did you get this info about Imhullu using fear magic?

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17 minutes ago, Nozomi Kasaki said:

Oh... I see. That seems very interesting. So basically, the magic coming from Imhullu was "programmed" to stimulate any attackers' brain to incline towards fear or something like that?

Also, I am just curious, where did you get this info about Imhullu using fear magic?

It's actually not attributed to Imhullu specifically, but the Dark Sphere in Mystery of the Emblem. Gotoh describes its effect as such at the end of Chapter 10.

"The Darksphere is that which complements the Lightsphere; in battle, it possesses the enemy's mind, negating their attacks"

I'm extrapolating a little bit assuming Imhullu works the same way, but not by a massive amount when you consider they function identically in gameplay and that Imhullu was created from the Darksphere, while Starlight was created from the Lightsphere (and Starsphere).

Though what's curious is that Marth using the Binding Shield, which contains the lightsphere, can't overcome Imhullu, only Starlight can, suggesting refining the dark sphere's power into a tome gives it a greater effect. We don't have the opportunity to test Starlight against the Dark Sphere but I like to think Starlight would be able to overcome it. Course maybe the Lightsphere could overcome Imhullu if it wasn't in the Binding Shield, as Marth obviously isn't getting the defensive effects of the Darksphere.

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's actually not attributed to Imhullu specifically, but the Dark Sphere in Mystery of the Emblem. Gotoh describes its effect as such at the end of Chapter 10.

"The Darksphere is that which complements the Lightsphere; in battle, it possesses the enemy's mind, negating their attacks"

Oh I see. So basically, this Darksphere's magic is basically some kind of hallucinogen that induces fear into their brain or is it just that the sphere's magic molecules just automatically produces fear-inducing chemicals into the attacker's brain as some kind of defense mechanism for the wielder?

Either way, forgive me for spouting so many scientific stuff that may or may not (most likely not) be accurate. I am not exactly a science/chemistry nerd, let alone an expert. I was just curious if we could somehow apply our scientific knowledge to FE's magic. This is pretty dumb I know, but I just like asking stuff like this.

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23 minutes ago, Nozomi Kasaki said:

Oh I see. So basically, this Darksphere's magic is basically some kind of hallucinogen that induces fear into their brain or is it just that the sphere's magic molecules just automatically produces fear-inducing chemicals into the attacker's brain as some kind of defense mechanism for the wielder?

Either way, forgive me for spouting so many scientific stuff that may or may not (most likely not) be accurate. I am not exactly a science/chemistry nerd, let alone an expert. I was just curious if we could somehow apply our scientific knowledge to FE's magic. This is pretty dumb I know, but I just like asking stuff like this.

Now that I've looked the actual line, fear is not mentioned, Gotoh just says it possesses the enemy's mind. That could be a sense of pacifism either, like losing the heart to fight, though fear is a lot more on brand for Gharnef. Point is it doesn't work by blocking attacks, people simply can't attack Gharnef.

More generally, one principle of science that magic tends to interfere with is conservation of mass energy, which is a pretty biggie for physics. The energy for the lightning needs to come from somewhere. Fortunately Fire Emblem is covered there via the system of durability. Maybe the tomes pages are consumed in some kind of fusion reaction to generate the energy.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

More generally, one principle of science that magic tends to interfere with is conservation of mass energy, which is a pretty biggie for physics. The energy for the lightning needs to come from somewhere. Fortunately Fire Emblem is covered there via the system of durability. Maybe the tomes pages are consumed in some kind of fusion reaction to generate the energy.

Well, from Kaga's own answer that I put way above here:

Magic is thus the technology where one harnesses energy that exists naturally. Spell books and staves can be thought of as vessels that store this energy. 

At least for how he envisioned it, the energy that gets turned into said lightning is stored in the tome. So the durability is more akin to a battery charge. Then you have the method before tomes and staves were a thing, where instead the magic user had to use their own energy. Hence the HP penalty in Gaiden/SoV.

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28 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, from Kaga's own answer that I put way above here:

Magic is thus the technology where one harnesses energy that exists naturally. Spell books and staves can be thought of as vessels that store this energy. 

At least for how he envisioned it, the energy that gets turned into said lightning is stored in the tome. So the durability is more akin to a battery charge. Then you have the method before tomes and staves were a thing, where instead the magic user had to use their own energy. Hence the HP penalty in Gaiden/SoV.

Where does that energy come from though? Are tomes hooked up to a water wheel somewhere or is their a poor mage who's job is just pouring their life energy into an endless supply of tomes each day?

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43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Where does that energy come from though? Are tomes hooked up to a water wheel somewhere or is their a poor mage who's job is just pouring their life energy into an endless supply of tomes each day?

Originally primitive deities existed at Akaneia and people believed these deities existed in all things. To lead mankind, Gotoh utilised the power of these deities. Magic (both offensive and recovery) is about as advanced as the dragon race’s technology, but it was difficult and dangerous for humans to use. Gotoh convinced humans to borrow the deities’ powers and warned them at the same time. So fire magic comes from the deity of fire, wind magic is borrowed from the deity of wind and etc.

Of course, Kaga did not went into full detail about how this worked, other than where the magic came from.

In a way it reminds me to how FFVI would do it years later. That beings existed that pretty much emanated magic (Warring Triad), which is how the world had magic to begin with, as people and creatures harnessed the energy radiated from the beings.

Or to stick with FE. What Tellius did with Spirit Charmers.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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  • 4 weeks later...

Thing is if magic exists the way it is depicted in game. Meaning that it works a certain way and always works that way. It's really a natural phenomena of some sort. As opposed to a supernatural phenomenon. Now a supernatural phenomenon may indeed be a natural phenomenon that we simply do not understand. But if a phenomenon is repeatable and measurable by any objective metrics it is basically a natural phenomenon even if we have no clue how it works. 

Like gravity is a good example. We know how it works. We really don't have a good idea of why it works. Just that it does. Ancient people had even less idea. Stuff like alchemy was seriously considered as a science, and in a way, it is, as far as chemistry is a thing. You just can't make a good model of chemical reactions without a microscope to understand the underlying structure of matter, so it's basically trial and error. 

If you think about it to any primative person a gun is essentially a form of magic. It kills at a distance by some unseen force. You might be wearing a suit of armor designed to fight against swords and the like, but some random guy with a gun can still kill you. 

So fire emblem mages are basically musketeers. 

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