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[complete] A small Maniac play log


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On 5/18/2023 at 5:20 PM, ping said:

So I've started playing a Maniac run a few days a week ago, so that I don't have to keep saying that "Well, I haven't played it, but in theory something something Titania good"...

...and instead of cluttering somebody else's topic every time I play a few chapters, I thought I'd do a small play log instead. I just played through chapter 6 and 7, so I won't remember every detail of prologue-ch.5, but here goes:

Prologue:

Spoiler

Greil moves to attack Ike, but his and Boyd's stats are the same as on Hard. This makes the map one turn slower (since Greil three-shots Ike after the Boyd fight and a Vuln use, so you can't attack him on the next PP), but that's about it.

I remember Ike getting an almost perfect level here - all but Res, I believe - which was then followed by a Res-only level on the next map. A nice welcome from RNGeesus for sure.

Chapter 1:

Spoiler

Definitely more crowded than on Hard, and everybody (sans Titania, obviously) got worn down rather quickly. I don't think either Oscar or Boyd managed to grab enough XP to get a level here, since Titania ended up doing most of the work. Still a fairly easy opening map, thanks to her.

Chapter 2:

Spoiler

Good lord, everything swarms you. This one plays very differently from Hard, where I default to shoving Ike ahead one or two tiles on the first few turns to aggro the enemies in the top right part of the map a bit more quickly. Oscar can solo the enemies right above your starting location, and Boyd can stick around Ike to grab some XP. On Maniac...

99otJ1C.png

...that doesn't work. I don't remember how many turns I eventually needed to clear the map (definitely a lot more than the five that is the requirement for max BEXP), but a fair amount of time was spent looking for some formation that would allow for some safe XP grabbing for the boys while Titania did the actual work.

Chapter 3:

Spoiler

It helps that I know that Marcia only spawns after you go past a certain line on the map. Without the time pressure of her getting slowly axed by the pirates, the map isn't all that difficult.

Chapter 4:

Spoiler

This one's pretty tricky, though, with its open terrain and loads of enemies. This is an "OK, but you should use your Jeigan" map even on Hard, and on Maniac, it's more like "OK, now figure out how you can make as many enemies attack Titania as possible". Gatrie does have the bulk to tank a lot of enemies, unlike the scrub squad in chapter 2, but unlike Titania, he doesn't kill enemies in retaliation (or bring them low enough that they run for the healing hedges), so you still want this to be a Jeigan show.

Chapter 5:

Spoiler

EncbFl9.png

This is during the final enemy phase and gives a decent idea about how this went: Well enough that I was able to push out and get the boss kill (and the Ashera Icon that he drops), but not well enough that I would come close to rout the enemy or anything.

It's worth noting that between the two brothers, Oscar got hit harder by their absense from the previous two maps, and subsequent level disadvantage compared to the other melee characters. Boyd, with his higher Str, the higher might on his weapon, and WTA over enemy soldiers, has a much easier time to at least grab some kills, while Oscar's (already shaky on Hard) offense really holds him back. However, this perception is definitely influenced by RNGeesus's blessings - both Oscar and Boyd gained three levels in total at the end of this map, and while Oscar (+2 Str, but no Spd) had an OK-ish start, Boyd (+3 Str, +2 Spd, +2 Def) really got rolling right away.

Chapter 6:

Spoiler

As usual, Maniac adds a bunch of enemies - instead of three Soldiers, one Archer, and one Mage waiting right outside the thickets, it's five Soldiers, two Archers, and two Mages. I end up taking a bit of a detour, with everybody except Titania exiting the forest close to the western bridge (but outside the Knights' range) while Titania trims the numbers of those nearby enemies (not one-rounding as much anymore, but it helps that low-HP enemies run towards the healers), and then everybody taking the eastern bridge towards the boss. Once the initial wave of enemies is dealt with, the rest of the map isn't very difficult anymore - at one point, the boss will make all enemies charge at you, but at that point, there isn't that many of them left.

Chapter 7:

Spoiler

Made a bit more difficult by Titania having to rush ahead to stop the thieves from looting the two chests to the west. Ike goes east to allow Mia to recruit herself right away, everybody else slogs through the enemies that don't go after Titania. I think I was a bit lucky here, with Ike dodging enough attacks that he can solo the enemies in the east, and the reinforcing enemy mages not ganging up on either Oscar or Boyd - pretty sure either of them would've been dead if they had. Titania ends up in the same room as Shinon and Gatrie, which is a bit of a waste of her talents, but she still ends up fighting most of the enemies from the SW room and eventually links up with the rest when it comes to fighting the boss and the Knights close to him.

The Team:
(without Shinon and Gatrie, those turncoats)

	Lv	  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike	13.42	  34   11   3  13  14  12  11   6 (+7 HP)
Oscar	8.81	  29    8   2   7   7   6  10   1
Boyd	9.56	  35   13   0   7  10   7   8   2
Titania */4.81	  35   12   6  14  14  12  13   8

Soren	6.01	  23    0   9  11   8   7   3  11
Rhys	8.18	  23    1  11   9   8   8   1  17
Mia	6.50	  21    7   0  10  13   6   7   2
  • Ike seems to be roughly at, or slightly above, his averages.
  • Oscar is still at base Spd, which is really rough at this point, without making up for it in any other area.
  • Boyd, meanwhile, is ahead on the trifecta of Str/Spd/Def by one or two points each. Been quite lucky with him.
  • No Str and no Spd on Titania thus far. The best thing about her levels is +2 Def off her 40% growth.
  • Soren's also at base Spd, which isn't a good look for him. He's maybe slightly worse than base Ilyana (who has -1 Mag, but +2 AS over him right now), although he still has overall better growths than her.
  • Nothing too dramatic about Rhys. 8 Spd is actually just +1.2 above his average, and he's a point behind his average Mag to negatively compensate.
  • Mia's at base level and it's unlikely for that to change. I kinda doubt that fielding her in the upcoming defense map would have a positive impact.
Edited by gnip
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Decently leveled Ike never hurts, though he will never ORKO anything other than mages without an expensive sword forge. Still, he tends to be the only sword user for a while, so he has some niche with Regal Sword, Killing Edge, Laguz Slayer etc.

Your Oscar is sad. I give him all of the bexp after chapter 7 and let him kill all southern enemies in chapter 8 (with a forged javelin). He reaches level 21 after clearing the southernwest enemies in chapter 9 and then is a better Titania.

Boyd is one of the few enemies who can ORKO Wyvern Lords etc., since 30 Str. and forged Silver Axes are dope. He is optional to train and still has the issue of not having a horse, but he has his niche.

Titania is still excellent, don't let some people fool you. Oscar and Kevin surpass her in Def, but she could theoretically use stat-booster to keep up and even in the endgame her averages are good enough to not be doubled, she just isn't ramming caps to do some wonders that Oscar/Kieran can barely pull off.

I never cared for Soren, but he should take care of himself by chipping enemies and after promotion he can train his staff level. Even if he gets screwed, he should still be a good staff-bot.

Rhys is a good staff-bot and not supposed to be anything else. His offense is almost always shitty, so everything is fine as long as he has enough magic to have some range with Physics etc. Trained Soren/Ilyana/Tormod/Mist could replace him, but the emphasis is could. And occasionally two staff users are useful.

Yeah, Mia sucks. Forged swords are expensive and mandantory if you want to use her. She can chip mages, thats it. Zihark and Stefan are more reliable (and still not even that good due to sword lock). No need to employ her ever.

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This is fun! I enjoy learning about how you handle some these maps.

Some notes on the chapters so far:

  • Chapter 1 - I find the best way to go is to put Titania somewhat left, but far enough left that she enters the range of the myrmidon guarding the upper left house. You can use her to kill the bandit on the left closest to your spawn, and then on enemy phase she'll kill the other one. This allows your weaker units to make a formation in between two houses so they only get hit by 1 enemy at a time. It also allows Titania to grab the seraph robe on the next turn without killing everything, giving your weaker units more xp.

 

  • Chapter 2 - Best formation is to hunker down in the bottom left corner. You can put Boyd in that little indent on the left, Oscar and Ike will defend Rhys who will heal them. I tend to give Ike a seraph robe by the time this map starts so he can tank better. Alternatively, I shove Ike with Rhys and Boyd so he can make it to the bush on the right on turn 1. If you combine seraph robe, bush defense, bush avoid, and weapon triangle advantage, you have a good shot at Ike being able to handle everything and get a lot of xp on enemy phase without losing out on too much bonus exp.

 

  • Chapter 4 - Yeah this map is tricky. I find the best strat is to move everyone to the upper right corner where you have trees and bushes to impede the enemy offense. You kind of have to mess around with shoves and rescues to keep everyone safe, but once you get in that corner your group should be able to handle the waves of enemies without allowing Titania to steal all the experience.

 

  • Chapter 5 - The enemy general has an Ashera Icon (4000G - good early forge money) and one of his myrmidon friends drops an Iron Blade (meh, could be useful though if you used Ike a lot on Chapter 4.) I recommend a formation with Ike, Oscar, Gatrie, Titania (replaced by Shinon later) to hold both chokes to your base. You can set it up where Gatrie holds on the tile right of Shinon in your photo, Ike and Oscar 1 unit above and to his left, Titania to his right. You will need to deal with enemies using the bush but it gives more protection for whichever unit you have immediately left and up of Gatrie. I would send out Titania around Turn 3 with a Javelin and a Handaxe to clear the enemies and grab the loot. It comes in handy later.

 

  • Chapter 6 - This is one of my least favorite maps because the initial wave is really tricky. The safest bet is probably to let Titania go out alone with a handaxe to clear most of the initial wave, and then clean up with your weaker units. A lot of people tend to go on the left side but I think it's safer to stay on the right, because it seems like the left side doesn't aggro on you if you go right, but the right side aggros if you go left. Alternatively, if you leveled Ike really high, I like to just send him and Titania to rush to the end. If you keep them adjacent to eachother, unequip Ike's sword, gave him a seraph robe and use a couple elixers, you can safely escort him to the sieze tile and get a pretty decent chunk of bonus xp.

 

  • Chapter 7 - I actually find it better to leave the thieves alone, because if you rush them you trigger the reinforcements and put Gatrie/Shinon potentially in danger. You can secure the right side and camp the treasure chest there (from a distance, if you go too far north that triggers reinforcements as well). The thieves will go back there and they always steal the Ward staff first so you can kill them and it will drop. You will lose the Miracle skill but it's worth the trade, it only is worth 500g and is a pretty bad skill overall. Not letting Titania kill everything on this map, allows you to funnel enemies through the narrow passageways and get all the xp you need for Ike, Oscar, and Soren (even boyd if you like using him).

 

Your Oscar may be underperforming now but once he promotes and gets axes that will fix his might issues. His speed can also be fixed with the Knight Ward. His double earth support with Ike is fast and should be kicking in around this point, so I would urge you to continue using Oscar despite the sub-par level ups. He eventually gets really good.

Your Boyd is doing pretty good, but if you're going to use him, I reccomend using 2 Dracoshields to improve his defense. I would also consider getting Vantage + Guard later on so that he can be a little durable on enemy phase.

Soren can be difficult to train early on, but on Chapter 9 and 10 you have some good opportunities to train. Chapter 9 has a bunch of mages that Soren can farm easy battle xp on. Also in Chapter 10 I reccomend not stealthing it, and just throwing Soren and whoever else you want to level (I reccomend Oscar) in front of him guarding Sephiran's prison cell with everyone else hunkering down inside. You get more battle experience than you would bonus experience, and it's much easier to get the loot as well as recruit Brom, Nephenee, and Kieran.

Your Titania's lack of strength growths might actually be an asset beyond this point because it will help her bring enemies down to very low hp without killing them so you can feed kills to weaker units. You've already pretty much survived the hardest parts of the early game. Chapters 8 - 10 are quite a bit easier than the first 7 chapters. You'll have some good opportunities to grab loot and get valuable experience.

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Chapter 8:

Spoiler

Battle preps:

  • BEXP level for Oscar: HP, Str, Skl, Spd, Def, Res
  • BEXP level for Titania: HP, Str, Skl, Spd, Lck, Res
    • 604 BEXP left for future use.
  • Removed Boyd's skill.
  • Forge: Hand Axe with 12 (+5) Might and 70 (+15) Hit: 5172 gold cose, roughly 1.5k for the +hit.

I plan to do the boring thing and dump a lot of BEXP into Marcia to see how well she can make use of that, so I only rounded up Oscar and Titania's level because they were fairly close (and because I'm a shameless BEXP level rigger).

mQUUVw5.jpg

The initial set-up for the first enemy phase, with the small additional touch of Oscar stabbing the nearby Mage and cantering away so that Boyd kills him on enemy phase. Ike can kill four of the cavaliers on enemy phase (it was five in a previous attempt, but the Sword Cav rolled high on Spd this time); afterwards he swaps positions with Titania, who later ventures forward to pull the boss...

8rfnEDG.jpg

...whom Boyd easily murders on turn... 6 or 7, I believe.

Because Ike dealt with the left choke point mostly on his own, with Soren adding a bit of damage and Rhys providing some healing, recruiting Ilyana actually got a bit close, with Ike only talking to her on the final turn. It also means that I didn't get the Pure Water, which is a shame - but I did grab the Red Gem and (15 uses of) the Longbow.

k6nm6Bh.jpg

Titania still was the real MVP, but Boyd perform pretty well, too. I believe he ended up two-rounding Knights, so he was able to get a lot of kills guarding the right chokepoint. He had to fall back once or twice so that Rhys could heal him safely, but he still managed to get a lot of work in. He didn't even use too much of the forge (only 7 charges) and just bonked the enemies with an Iron Axe and, occasionally, with the Hammer.

The Team:

	Lv	  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike	15.80	  36   12   4  15  14  12  12   8	+7 HP
Titania	*/5.61	  36   13   6  15  15  13  13   9
Oscar	10.08	  31    9   2   8   9   8  11   2
Boyd	13.50	  39   15   0   9  13   7   9   2

Soren 	7.05	  24    0  10  12   8   7   3  12
Rhys	9.15	  23    1  11  10   8   9   2  18
Ilyana  6.00	  20    1   8  10   9   6   3  10

Answers:

Spoiler
22 hours ago, Aircalipoor said:

Your Oscar is sad. I give him all of the bexp after chapter 7 and let him kill all southern enemies in chapter 8 (with a forged javelin). He reaches level 21 after clearing the southernwest enemies in chapter 9 and then is a better Titania.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards benching him at some point, so I didn't even unlock his C support with Ike yet. BEXP Marcia, use Kieran, see if I have the resources to get Jill a kickstart, too, and I don't really want to plan too much past that point.

22 hours ago, Aircalipoor said:

I never cared for Soren, but he should take care of himself by chipping enemies and after promotion he can train his staff level. Even if he gets screwed, he should still be a good staff-bot.

Rhys is a good staff-bot and not supposed to be anything else. His offense is almost always shitty, so everything is fine as long as he has enough magic to have some range with Physics etc. Trained Soren/Ilyana/Tormod/Mist could replace him, but the emphasis is could. And occasionally two staff users are useful.

Here I'm leaning towards keeping Rhys around - I tend to go for Mist on Hard, if only for Sonic Sword memes, but on this difficulty, Rhys's casual 815 XP lead on her is hard to ignore. Plus he procced Def for a second time this map, so clearly Nos-tanking is going to be the name of the game

22 hours ago, Aircalipoor said:

Yeah, Mia sucks. Forged swords are expensive and mandantory if you want to use her. She can chip mages, thats it. Zihark and Stefan are more reliable (and still not even that good due to sword lock). No need to employ her ever.

Another unit that I occasionally use on Hard, with the added Hot Take (TM) that she's more useful than Zihark because she can technically Do Stuff while being free to deploy and they both suck as long-term investment project, so I don't value Zihark's better growths all that highly. :lol: But in this case, I decided that 25 BEXP would be more valuable than whatever miniscule use Mia might have in the fight.

22 hours ago, Uscari said:

Soren can be difficult to train early on, but on Chapter 9 and 10 you have some good opportunities to train. Chapter 9 has a bunch of mages that Soren can farm easy battle xp on. Also in Chapter 10 I reccomend not stealthing it, and just throwing Soren and whoever else you want to level (I reccomend Oscar) in front of him guarding Sephiran's prison cell with everyone else hunkering down inside. You get more battle experience than you would bonus experience, and it's much easier to get the loot as well as recruit Brom, Nephenee, and Kieran.

Your Titania's lack of strength growths might actually be an asset beyond this point because it will help her bring enemies down to very low hp without killing them so you can feed kills to weaker units. You've already pretty much survived the hardest parts of the early game. Chapters 8 - 10 are quite a bit easier than the first 7 chapters. You'll have some good opportunities to grab loot and get valuable experience.

To be honest, the slow turtle tactics just aren't my play style, even if they might be safer and even more XP-lucrative than going fast. This is true for me in general, but for PoR in particular, I do think that BEXP are a nice additional incentive. They might be fewer XP in total, but they can be fed more intentionally, saved up for new recruits, and used to avoid RNG screwage. I'm still not going to stealth the prison map because f*** that noise (especially because according to the main site, the green units must escape the map in order to be recruited on Maniac), but I'm definitely going to lean on Titania and Lethe to get through the map more quickly.

 

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Wow your Boyd is blessed. 

18 minutes ago, ping said:

Chapter 8:

The Team:

	Lv	  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res

Boyd	13.50	  39   15   0   9  13   7   9   2

 

+1 hp, +2 Str, +3 Spd, +2 Def, not even below in any area.

I normally don't recommend using Boyd in Maniac Mode due to his lack of durability, but this is a good Boyd.

I really recommend continuing to use Oscar, especially if you are going to use Kieran. Oscar's earth support contributes a lot of Kieran's survivability.

23 minutes ago, ping said:

The Team:

       Lv	  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res

Oscar	10.08	  31    9   2   8   9   8  11   2

You Oscar is actually pretty decent.

Has +2 hp, -1 speed, +1 luck +1 def. He's only 1 KW level up from being on par with his averages. As I said earlier his promotion is when you really see him begin to shine, when he gets strength gains and the ability to use axes, he'll be a better titania, minus the occasionally useful res/luck advantage she has, which he can remedy with supports/pure water.

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Quote

I plan to do the boring thing and dump a lot of BEXP into Marcia to see how well she can make use of that, so I only rounded up Oscar and Titania's level because they were fairly close (and because I'm a shameless BEXP level rigger).

If you use chapter 10 to train Oscar, he can catch up and doesn't need the BEXP.

If you stealth chapter 10 (there is even a guide for it, though max bexp isn't required), then you can give Oscar the current BEXP and give Marcia the chapter 10 BEXP.

Overall, Oscar can still even out his spd (especially with Knight Shield) and his Support with Ike is really good.

Jill needs a speedwing and her start sucks (by comparison Marcia almost trivializes the mid-game if she gets promoted quickly), but she is worth the investement. She is no Marcia and has Res problems and it can be a hassle to get to A axes since she has lances before promotion. The main argument why some people rank her higher is that her max stats are the best (27 in Str/Spd/Def vs Marcias 23/28/24), but I find reaching those max stats impossible without rigging / its only an endgame thing. Marcias 23 Str. only falls off in endgame and she doubles almost everything.

Soren not proccing spd would trigger me, but he seems decent otherwise and its not like he would stomp regularly. Still something to watch out for.

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13 hours ago, Uscari said:

I really recommend continuing to use Oscar, especially if you are going to use Kieran. Oscar's earth support contributes a lot of Kieran's survivability.

2 hours ago, Aircalipoor said:

Overall, Oscar can still even out his spd (especially with Knight Shield) and his Support with Ike is really good.

Well, now I obviously can't use Oscar anymore.

Spoiler

I know of Oscar's advantages, of course, namely the Earth affinity plus his fast double-Earth support with Ike, but now I must see how Kieran can do without the +10/15 avoid from Oscar's support. For what it's worth, I will likely keep both of his other support partners around, so at least he'll have some help with his accuracy from Rhys and Marcia's Fire affinities.

Spoiler

And yes, I'm just being petty.

 

 

2 hours ago, Aircalipoor said:

Soren not proccing spd would trigger me, but he seems decent otherwise and its not like he would stomp regularly. Still something to watch out for.

Yeah, six level-ups without a Spd proc is getting on my nerves, too. But even though Ilyana's effective +2 Spd probably makes her the better Mage than him right now, Soren still seems like the better unit to feed kills to, since he does have better stats in the other areas and generally better growths. I could give him the earlygame Speedwing, but I do want to save that for Jill.

Plus, with Oscar out of the picture, Ike has to support someone. Probably Soren and Titania, or maybe Reyson instead of the latter.

Edited by ping
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Nah, use whatever you want, I once made it with almost no mounts since every run boiled down to paladins and flyers storming with Reyson. Something like Reyson-Tormod-Calill-Nephenee-Brom-Zihark-Muarim-Lethe-Ike-Titania-Rhys

It was a change of a pace to not rely on Oscar/Marcia/Kieran/Jill and a good chunk of the game was still Titania dominating everything, she compensated for her meddling stats by getting even more levels due to being more necessary, so my stance to let her remain at the top stands, even if she usually drops on a "normal" playthrough.

 

It's not that you NEED to use Oscar, it's just that he can be 21/1 coming out of chapter 9 and you can still accumulate BEXP for Marcia/Kieran/Jill whatever. Its a clutch. Not FE8 Seth, but 16/1 Lyn Mode Sain.

Don't worry about Kieran, he doesn't need Oscars avo (which isn't even that high and reliable). He has Titania bases and can ORKO soldiers from the get go. He can theoretically instanteniously promote to be your best unit, it just is never done since BEXP goes to Oscar and Marcia (or Jill I guess) first. And Kieran doesn't care about not promoting asap, he can train and contribute unpromoted on his own. Marcia support is good, he can occasionally ORKO stuff that Oscar can't, since his weapons and supports have a few points more Atk.

Save the speedwing for Jill, she really needs it. Soren chips and cleans, he doesn't need to double for that. And even promoted, he mainly should build on his staff rank for physic/restore etc. Once again not something that requires speed.

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1 hour ago, gnip said:

Well, now I obviously can't use Oscar anymore.

  Hide contents

I know of Oscar's advantages, of course, namely the Earth affinity plus his fast double-Earth support with Ike, but now I must see how Kieran can do without the +10/15 avoid from Oscar's support. For what it's worth, I will likely keep both of his other support partners around, so at least he'll have some help with his accuracy from Rhys and Marcia's Fire affinities.

  Hide contents

And yes, I'm just being petty.

 

 

Yeah, six level-ups without a Spd proc is getting on my nerves, too. But even though Ilyana's effective +2 Spd probably makes her the better Mage than him right now, Soren still seems like the better unit to feed kills to, since he does have better stats in the other areas and generally better growths. I could give him the earlygame Speedwing, but I do want to save that for Jill.

Plus, with Oscar out of the picture, Ike has to support someone. Probably Soren and Titania, or maybe Reyson instead of the latter.

Why can you obviously not use Oscar anymore? I don't understand.

Soren is worth training even with subpar speed just for his support with Ike. As Aircali said his best utility is going to be his staff usage anyways due to his high magic and skill.

The move imo is Oscar - Kieran A support (22 avoid for both frontline paladins), Oscar - Ike B support (20 avoid for both), and Ike - Soren A support (22 avoid for both in the endgame).

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6 hours ago, Uscari said:

Why can you obviously not use Oscar anymore? I don't understand.

As Aircalipoor says, it's not to be taken very seriously. The "logic" is that when Oscar is presented as an essential unit for the later stages of the game, I can't help but take it as a challenge not to use him long-term. ;):

Chapter 9:

Spoiler
  • BEXP: Ike (15.80->16, 24 BEXP) - HP, Str, Mag, Skl, Spd
    • 605 BEXP remaining
  • Forge: Steel Lance: 13 Mt (+3), 75 Hit (+5) - 2906 gold
  • Support: Ike/Soren (C)

w0zCkZj.jpg

I believe this picture was taken right before I realised that I had to restart because I forgot to direct Lethe and Mordy...

With the increased enemy stats on Maniac, HP and Def in particular, I wasn't sure if splitting the group as I do on Hard would still be possible while killing the pirates in time. So, full crew to the beach it is, with Boyd (boosted by Rhys's Ward) taking the point. Unfortunately, he and Titania (w/ a Javelin because I didn't stock up with Hand Axes when I had the chance) didn't hit enough of their attacks to kill the initial Pirate on turn two, so Boyd had to charge ahead on turn 3 a bit further than I really wanted him to. Eventually, he and Mia (helpfully visiting both) secured both the villages. Or houses. The treasure.

The pirate reinforcements (seven dudes in total, including Nedata) are reasonably dangerous, but also quite inaccurate with their Venom Axes. You'll notice that Mist gained one additional XP from combat - pretty sure she would've died to my miscounting the tiles if she hadn't dodged. But with their low accuracy, middling Spd (so no doubling anybody), and mostly one-ranged weapons (one Hand Axe, iirc), I managed to get into a safe position. The turn after I almost let Mist die, that is. Lethe and Mordecai actually came in handy there, blocking Nedata's path without taking any kills (thanks to the "hold" order).

When Marcia spawned, I was initially a bit worried that she might get in trouble because as I sent everybody to the northwest, there was a handful of enemies looping around the right side of the map. But she spawns on a tile that can't be reached without 2-ranged weapons and she went right above the impassable terrain on her first turn, after which Ike was able to get into her range to have her recruit herself.

Afterwards, the area around the boss wasn't much of a problem. There's a lot of reinfocements when you get near the boss, yes (five Myrms and two or three soldiers, I believe), but there's also a convenient two-tile chokepoint from where you can easily push through them. The bosskill itself went to Soren, after a lot of chipping from Boyd and a little bit more from Ilyana.

sv8Gebr.jpg

In the end, I took 17 turns to clear the map, which doesn't leave me with a whole lot of additional BEXP. I'm sure it's possible to split your troops up (in particular send Titania and Oscar south where their movement isn't impeded) and get much closer to the BEXP turn limit of 8, but I think that for me, having Titania around made the beach part of the map much more reliable.

 

The Team:

	Lv	  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike	17.24	  38   13   5  16  15  13  13   8 (+7 HP)
Titania */6.25	  37   13   7  15  16  14  14   9
Oscar	11.19	  31    9   3   9   9   9  12   2
Boyd	16.74	  40*  16   0  12  15   8   9   2

Rhys	10.87	  23    1  11  10   8  10   3  18
Soren   10.77     26    0  12  13  10   7   3  13
Ilyana	8.28	  20    2   8  12  10   6   3  11
Mia	6.93	  base

Mist	1.89	  base
Rolf	1.81	  base
Marcia	6.88	  20    9   1   8  12   5   8   6

Both Rolf and Mia with somewhat useful contributions, actually. 188 XP for Marcia isn't terrible, I don't think. Soren got two out of three possible Spd procs, which is also quite nice, although Ilyana retains the effective +2 Spd lead, given that Soren is unlikely to use basic Wind tomes with his initial one being used up at this point. Soren's +6 HP and +4 Mag advantages are pretty significant at this point, though.

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I generally don't even try going for the houses because I don't really need the extra resistance from the talisman and I find it safer to tuck away everyone at the top of the map until the reinforcements are spent. Still good forge money though.

That's impressive though that you managed to get the loot and not lose any units. I'm sure it helped a lot to have a strong foot unit like Boyd to navigate the sand and do respectable damage even with unforged handaxes. It could be worth it to support him with Titania for the accuracy even when she falls off since Boyd doesn't have any other good supports aside from Brom.

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Ye, 4000 gold is 4000 gold.

50 minutes ago, Uscari said:

That's impressive though that you managed to get the loot and not lose any units. I'm sure it helped a lot to have a strong foot unit like Boyd to navigate the sand and do respectable damage even with unforged handaxes. It could be worth it to support him with Titania for the accuracy even when she falls off since Boyd doesn't have any other good supports aside from Brom.

Thanks :): And yeah, Boyd did earn the MVP title on this map, with Titania doing heavy lifting mostly towards the (easier) tail end of the map.

Support-wise, I'm not really too commited to anything, but what seems likely is something along the lines of...

  • Ike/Soren, Ike/Reyson
  • Titania/Boyd, Titania/Rhys
  • Marcia/Kieran, Marcia/Tanith
  • Kieran/Rhys
  • Tanith/Reyson

Obviously, not all of those supports are made equal in terms of usefulness, it's not like Tanith is going to be glued to Reyson, but hey, supports are basically free in PoR so I might as well.

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Chapter 10:

Spoiler
  • BEXP: Soren (10.77 -> 11; 24 BEXP) - HP, Mag, Skl, Spd, Lck, Def, Res (first roll!)
  • BEXP: Rhys (10.87 -> 11; 14 BEXP) - Mag, Skl, Spd
  • BEXP: Boyd (16.74 -> 17; 31 BEXP) - Str, Skl, Spd, Lck, Def, Res (first roll empty, 2nd roll perfect...)
  • BEXP: Marcia (6.88 -> 12; 514 BEXP) - +3 HP, +4 Str, +1 Mag, +3 Skl, +4 Spd, +2 Lck, +5 Def, +2 Res
    • 80 BEXP remaining.
  • Forge: Javelin with 11 (+5) Might and 70 (+10) hit - 7305 gold.
  • Support: Titania/Rhys, Mist/Rolf (lol)

Pretty easy map, to be honest. After immediately triggering the reinforcements with Lethe attacking the closest patrol, it really wasn't much of an issue to kill the reinforcements near the starting location before the second group arrived with full force. 'Full force' not being a whole lot, either, really. Only the boss room is a little bit awkward, with overlapping ranges and admittedly a pretty hard-hitting boss.

I made the questionable decision to have Ike and Boyd, i.e. two foot units, clean up the last remains of the enemies spawning at the starting location, but even with that, I was able to finish the map within the BEXP limit (11 turns, to be precise), with all the treasure and everybody escaping except for Sephiran (I wonder, does he give BEXP if you have him escape by rescuing him?). For that, Oscar went alone to Kieran and Brom's cell, turning the former yellow and rescuing the latter so that Ike could move directly towards the escape point. Mordecai went and got the Statue Frag from the NE corner of the map, since he can two-shot the door (I'm sure the saved Door Key use will be crucial for the success of the run) and get from the chest to the escape point in two turns when transformed.

Boss kill went to... Marcia, I believe. Multiple people chipped in, but I think Marcia got the last hit in. She definitely killed the Halbadier, though, I remember her shaky hit rate.

AfuIIZF.jpg

 

The Team:

	Lv	  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike	17.93	  38   13   5  16  15  13  13   8 (+7 HP)
Titania */6.98	  37   13   7  15  16  14  14   9
Marcia  14.78	  24   15   3  12  16   8  13   8
Oscar	11.73	  31    9   3   9   9   9  12   2

Boyd	18.30	  40*  18   0  14  17   9  10   3
Lethe	3.10	  base
Mordy   2.00	  base

Rhys	11.99	  23    1  12  11   9  10   3  18
Soren   12.24	  28    0  14  14  12   8   4  15

Fielding thieves is for scrubs. Also, I do kinda regret giving Ike the Angelic Robe instead of saving it for Marcia. Oh well, the one in chapter 12 should still be around, according to the main site.

Glad to see Soren getting over his Spd woes - he's basically caught up to his average at this point. I'm also only now noticing how ridiculously HP-blessed he is, only missing his 45% growth once in 11 level-ups. His stats are looking pretty incredible in general, really.

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1 hour ago, gnip said:

everybody escaping except for Sephiran (I wonder, does he give BEXP if you have him escape by rescuing him?)

Yes.

Stealth is fairly easy, the linked method can be slightly iffy in the boss room, but usually should work.

Chaper 12 Angel Robe still exists. Marcia likes it (and also Draco-Shields).

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4 hours ago, gnip said:

Chapter 10:

The Team:

	Lv	  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res

Marcia  14.78	  24   15   3  12  16   8  13   8

 

Wow your Marcia has +4 strength and + 3 defense compared to average, that's a hell of a mid-game unit.

I still think her 23 strength cap and no access to axes will limit her, but forged lances can keep her relevant for most of the playthrough. Her fantastic speed growths and high cap will help you consistently double everyone up until the endgame.

I wouldn't bother giving her seraph robe or dracoshield. She's not designed to stay in the fight and I think is better suited to be your assassination unit. Then again if she keeps having 3+Def compared to her averages it could be worthwhile investment, since she also has very high res, could be useful when you need to pull mages but you can't do it without pulling a physical threat as well.

I'm curious to see what you can do with her.

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8 hours ago, Aircalipoor said:

Yes.

Stealth is fairly easy, the linked method can be slightly iffy in the boss room, but usually should work.

I was going to say that apparently the OP forgot about Maniac Mode's halved BEXP, but the stealth BEXP is actually excempt from that rule. Huh. I don't think I will replay the map over it (even though I could, I'm rotating save slots), but it definitely changes the math on whether or not it's worth going full MGS.

(Looking ahead a little, the desert map does have halved BEXP for the pacifist approach, so I'm probably going to go with "not worth" when I get there)

5 hours ago, Uscari said:

Wow your Marcia has +4 strength and + 3 defense compared to average, that's a hell of a mid-game unit.

Some luck, plus a little magic of BEXP abuse. I'm not going too crazy with it, but filtering out level-ups with none of the three "big" stats, Str/Spd/Def, already helps a fair bit. Although I'd like to put on record that Soren got to where he is all on his own - he only got a single BEXP level, and he got a nigh-perfect one on the first roll. I swear I'm playing without any emulator saves :lol:

Marcia's physical defense honestly isn't that bad on average. Worse than the Cavs', of course, especially when they get access to the Knight Ward, but 13.75 Def on Lv.20/1 is only two-ish points behind Oscar and Kieran.

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17 hours ago, gnip said:

Glad to see Soren getting over his Spd woes - he's basically caught up to his average at this point. I'm also only now noticing how ridiculously HP-blessed he is, only missing his 45% growth once in 11 level-ups. His stats are looking pretty incredible in general, really.

Speaking of PoR mages...

  • Stats (.5 or higher rounded up, .4 or lower rounded down) (HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Luk/Def/Res)
    • 20/10 Stats (and Bastian’s lvl 13 bases):
      • Soren: 35/3/24/25/21/13/8/24
      • Ilyana: 34/9/21/22/18/16/8/24
      • Tormod: 35/8/21/20/21/16/12/21
      • Calill: 34/9/21/20/20/17/10/18
      • Bastian: 35/12/19/21/16/15/12/20
      • (Rhys: 35/3/28/22/17/20/9/28)
      • (Mist: 33/13/22/12/21/23/9/20)
    • 20/20 Stats:
      • Soren: 39/4/30/28/25/16/10/28
      • Ilyana: 39/11/26/27/21/21/10/28
      • Tormod: 40/10/25/24/25/19/14/25
      • Calill: 39/12/25/24/24/20/14/22
      • Bastian: 39/15/24/26/20/17/14/24
      • (Rhys: 39/3/29/22/21/25/11/30)
      • (Mist: 38/16/26/15/25/29/11/24)

I jotted down these numbers next to each other a few years ago, for comparison's sake.

Shows you the mages in all their sameness and minute differences. 

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I jotted down these numbers next to each other a few years ago, for comparison's sake.

Shows you the mages in all their sameness and minute differences. 

Yeah, it's really not that massive. Soren's a bit better than the rest, Ilyana does have her Spd issues, but it still feeds into my perception of PoR's units being kinda same-y. Although I'm actually a bit surprised to see Bastian holding up relatively well to the rest, given his bad reputation. Quite slow like Ilyana, of course, not to mention his lack of staff utility, but he would've made a pretty good filler unit in a game where those are more valuable than in PoR.

Chapter 11:

Spoiler
  • BEXP: Ike (17.93 -> 18; 9 BEXP) - HP, Str, Skl, Lck
  • BEXP: Titania (6.98 -> 7; 4 BEXP) - HP, Spd, Lck, Def, Res
  • BEXP: Rhys (11.99 -> 12; 1 BEXP) - Mag, Lck, Def, Res
  • BEXP: Marcia (14.78 -> 15; 26 BEXP) - HP, Mag, Skl, Lck, Def
    • 250 BEXP remaining
  • Support: Boyd/Titania (C)
  • Forge: Steel Axe with 16 Might (+5), 80 hit (+15) - 3844 gold

CJ5hdRi.jpg

The match of the day, Marcia vs. Bow Knight.

I did have to restart twice - once almost immediately because I missed that two of the cavs in the southwest corner are bow knights, once because I overextended with Kieran in that path where the enemy priest is in the picture above - but this still wasn't a very difficult map. I finished it in 8 turns (one above BEXP limit) with all houses visited, both priests stolen from, and all five Vigilantes still alive, which is an outcome that I'm very OK with.

The picture honestly tells most of the strategy, too - punch through the path in the middle, then go up north. The enemy doesn't really seem to offer that much more resistance than on Hard. Oscar and Lethe stayed back a bit, to entertain the two aggressive Vigilantes (Lethe only after she untransformed, of course) and to make sure that the BK moves south and doesn't block the path along the norther edge of the map.

Once the boss is killed (unfortunately without stealing his Laguzslayer, which I like to do on Hard, but it's not worth a full BEXP level for Volke to meet the Str/Spd thresholds) in a group effort with Kieran taking the reward, Titania and Kieran help Mordecai reach Zihark from the northwest, so that he can be recruited on the same turn that Boys seizes and get the Killer Lance house. Very tight strat, with Mordecai sitting at a transformation gauge of one at the start of PP8 (and no, not a very tight strat, it just happened to work out that way).

z7fLbDq.jpg

The Team:

	Lv	  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike	18.61	  39   14   5  17  15  14  13   8 (+7 HP)
Marcia  16.30	  25   15   4  13  17  10  14   8
Titania */7.43	  38   13   7  15  17  15  15  10
Oscar	11.88	  31    9   3   9   9   9  12   2

Kieran  14.20	  31   11   2  11  12   8  11   2
Boyd	19.39	  40*  19   1  15  17  10  10   4
Soren   13.53	  28    0  15  15  12   8   5  16
Rhys	12.68	  23    1  13  11   9  11   4  19

Volke   10.46	  base
Lethe	3.51	  base
Mordy	2.35	  base
Zihark  10.00	  base

 

Edited by gnip
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1 hour ago, gnip said:

Although I'm actually a bit surprised to see Bastian holding up relatively well to the rest,

His bases are the worst thing about him, besides the lack of Staffs. Besides Sothe with Blossom, Bastian actually has the highest total growths of any Beorc unit (Laguz have higher growths)- 395. Second place goes to Titania- 390. Soren, Ilyana and Tormod all have 305.

Bastian's 65/65/55 Mag/Skl/Spd are higher than Soren's 60/55/40. Bastian's non-Staff, non-availability problem is that he doesn't have room for enough levels to his inferior bases and then sling past his competitors. He's a stunted Est in a way, albeit not to the extent New Mystery has it.

It's perhaps weird to see this, but it wasn't always this way. Cecilia in Binding had 235 growths while Lugh and Lilina had 270. Pent had 245 to Lucius/Erk/Canas's 295/285/285. Saleh was 250 and Lute/Artur 285/290. Path of Radiance tried a few times to keep its prepromotes more long-term comparable to unpromoted units by leaving their bases subpar, but giving them higher growths than those greenhorns. Titania as I'm sure you've glimpsed has 25% more HP, 15% more Lck, 10% more Skl, 5% more Mag, Spd, Def, Res; and the same Str growth. What keeps Titania from telling Oscar to stay in the kitchen is that he gets promotion bonuses and she does not, and he gets many more levels than her. The level cap strategically cuts her superior growth short of outdoing her competitors, they only let her keep her from falling too far behind (or tying/exceeding in less-important stats).

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1 hour ago, gnip said:

 

Yeah, it's really not that massive. Soren's a bit better than the rest, Ilyana does have her Spd issues, but it still feeds into my perception of PoR's units being kinda same-y. Although I'm actually a bit surprised to see Bastian holding up relatively well to the rest, given his bad reputation. Quite slow like Ilyana, of course, not to mention his lack of staff utility, but he would've made a pretty good filler unit in a game where those are more valuable than in PoR.

 

I see some pretty stark differences.

Soren's speed matches Tormod with light-weight tomes, but Tormod has a massive +6 attack speed when using any siege tome. However, Soren has higher magic than everyone else, so he can use light-weight windtomes and still be quite powerful, just can't accomplish much with siege tomes, and will struggle to double with Elthunder, the most useful non-siege magic tome in the game.

Illyana has 4 less attack speed than Soren when using light-weight tomes, but ultimately nets +3 attack speed when using siege tomes. Not enough to double enemies, but enough that won't get doubled if she has a siege tome equipped. 

Calil pretty much is identical to Tormod statistically, just a little bit worse.

Bastian is terrible. -4 attack speed compared to Calil unless using Bolting/Rexbolt, and even then he ends up slower. Lowest magic of all the mages. His only utility is using blizzard without getting doubled if he's lucky. He's so bad that even if I had no other mages I think I would sub him out for another physical unit.

Rhys suffers from the same speed problem as Bastian but unlike Bastian Rhys can use staves all the way up to S rank. Plus he makes for a really good siege tome sponge.

To me the verdict is clear that Soren is the budget/low investment mage, Tormod is the high investment/god-tier endgame mage, Calil is somewhere in the middle, Illyana is mostly not worth using unless you really value her support partners, and Bastian is just plain terrible. Rhys gets to be in a category of his own due to his stellar base magic and the fact that he is your only healer for almost the entire early game.

I won't bother comparing Mist because she's not really a mage.

 

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Chapter 11:

  Hide contents
  • BEXP: Ike (17.93 -> 18; 9 BEXP) - HP, Str, Skl, Lck
  • BEXP: Titania (6.98 -> 7; 4 BEXP) - HP, Spd, Lck, Def, Res
  • BEXP: Rhys (11.99 -> 12; 1 BEXP) - Mag, Lck, Def, Res
  • BEXP: Marcia (14.78 -> 15; 26 BEXP) - HP, Mag, Skl, Lck, Def
    • 250 BEXP remaining
  • Support: Boyd/Titania (C)
  • Forge: Steel Axe with 16 Might (+5), 80 hit (+15) - 3844 gold

The match of the day, Marcia vs. Bow Knight.

I did have to restart twice - once almost immediately because I missed that two of the cavs in the southwest corner are bow knights, once because I overextended with Kieran in that path where the enemy priest is in the picture above - but this still wasn't a very difficult map. I finished it in 8 turns (one above BEXP limit) with all houses visited, both priests stolen from, and all five Vigilantes still alive, which is an outcome that I'm very OK with.

The picture honestly tells most of the strategy, too - punch through the path in the middle, then go up north. The enemy doesn't really seem to offer that much more resistance than on Hard. Oscar and Lethe stayed back a bit, to entertain the two aggressive Vigilantes (Lethe only after she untransformed, of course) and to make sure that the BK moves south and doesn't block the path along the norther edge of the map.

Once the boss is killed (unfortunately without stealing his Laguzslayer, which I like to do on Hard, but it's not worth a full BEXP level for Volke to meet the Str/Spd thresholds) in a group effort with Kieran taking the reward, Titania and Kieran help Mordecai reach Zihark from the northwest, so that he can be recruited on the same turn that Boys seizes and get the Killer Lance house. Very tight strat, with Mordecai sitting at a transformation gauge of one at the start of PP8 (and no, not a very tight strat, it just happened to work out that way).

 

 

 

It never occurred to me to just go left and charge in head-first. I always was concerned about being surrounded, but I guess the AI just piles up on the left rather than go around. Interesting. I always end up huddling up at the house the Black Knight gets out from and turtle it until all the enemies are dead. That makes it easier for me to concentrate exp on Kieran.

Going left and managing to grab the killer lance before thieves can get to it is impressive, that does sound like a very tight strat, with a lot of enemies to chew through in just 8 turns.

I forgot you can steal the laguz sword by giving Volke a level, but I agree you were right not to use that just for the sword. Most laguz are not very dangerous and can be beaten with normal weapons. You'[re better off saving your BXP to get KW level ups on your paladins/general if you choose to field one.

I would recommend starting to forge and store hand axes for the endgame though. You have about 15 chapters until Clash (crazy map in Maniac Mode) and you'll want as much powerful 1-2 range weapons as you can get.

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5 hours ago, gnip said:

I finished it in 8 turns (one above BEXP limit) with all houses visited, both priests stolen from, and all five Vigilantes still alive, which is an outcome that I'm very OK with.

Pretty good, considering how many side-objectives this map has. It's the best designed map of FE9, considering how many paths you can take (west, northwest, north, northeast) and what you have to watch out for (recruiting Zihark, the Vigilantes, staves, the villages). Its one of these chapters that you have to low turn to play  it right because stalling is to your detriment (thieves plundering villages, Jill, Black Knight). I always need to reset and experiment on this map to optimize it.

Kieran can beat the southeast enemies with his base stats, which is neat.

 

@mage discussion: FE9 gives most units quite average growth and stats, so roughly I agree that they are the same, but still have quirks.

Soren vs Ilyana still goes to the former, however, Ilyanas strength advantage should be noted:

20/10 Soren: 3 Str, 24 Mag, 21 Spd

20/10 Ilyana: 9 Str, 20-21 Mag, 18 Spd

Soren beats her by 3-4 Mag and 3 Spd, a clear win, right?

Well, if they need to use the stronger tomes because maniac enemies have HP and Resistance, then we have

Soren: 30 Atk, 19 AS with Tornado

Ilyana: 30-31 Atk, 18 AS with Thoron

Much closer.

 

@siege tomes: Even Ilyana/Tormod/Callil have trouble doubling with them. They are also so rare that they are a novelity and are used very sparingly. While you can theoretically get many more than the few easily dropped, its a lot of effort and almost always not worth it.

 

4 hours ago, Uscari said:

Going left and managing to grab the killer lance before thieves can get to it is impressive, that does sound like a very tight strat, with a lot of enemies to chew through in just 8 turns.

It's when you don't turtle almost every map but utilize your units to the best to beat the enemies and complete the chapters more quickly, something the game rewards you and is more than often designed to be. Which is why I also disagree with forging overly much Handaxes (though they are occasionally superior, like in chaper 13). ORKOing with Handaxes becomes impossible later on. Forged Steel and Silver Weapons are more likely to ORKO due to the focus of player phase (killing enemies, retreating to Reyson, get four mounted units danced and repeat). Clash can be blitzed within few turns, Oscar/Kieran can even ORKO Paladins with forged Silver Weapons, which they couldn't do with Handaxes etc.

Edited by Aircalipoor
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16 minutes ago, Aircalipoor said:

Well, if they need to use the stronger tomes because maniac enemies have HP and Resistance, then we have

Soren: 30 Atk, 19 AS with Tornado

Ilyana: 30-31 Atk, 18 AS with Thoron

Much closer

lolol
God, wind magic is ass here.

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In this case its Sorens issue to get Str, due to having a 5% growth. He is potentially stuck with 0+2 Str, so every tome except Wind and Elwind can wear him down. I'd unironically consider to give him an energy ring, since it acts as a speedwing.

The other mages have higher bases and growth in str, so they are less likely to end up like this. The exception is Rhys, who has even more issues in that regard than Soren, due to having less spd, heavier tomes and one less point of strength (on his promotion).

Edited by Aircalipoor
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