Combat - Real time or turn based

[Capt. Fargus]

Turn based, or real time. What’s your flavor?

Just got done readin some articles on WRPGs vs JRPGs and apparently one difference between em is the combat system. Is real time generally regarded as easier because I personally dont think it is and dont see how it could be. With Fire Emblem and Heros of Might and Magic you can sit back, take your time and think. Not so with Warlords Battlecry or something like that. The voice could tell ya “your whatever is under attack” and by the time you figure out what the hell’s goin on and where it is your hero’s dead.

Thoughts?

[AnonymousSpeed]

Generally turn-based, although that's mostly because I didn't want to git gud as a kid and the habit stuck.

I don't think either one is inherently better, though. I enjoy games from both, and games that are both- Megaman Battle Network being a prime example of the latter. Yet a traditional rhythm game would obviously be trash if it were turn based.

[Integrity]

i'm not really predisposed to either. both can be done really well or really terribly. turnbased is a bit harder to make terrible since you inherently give people infinite time to think about their moves but you still get to games like e.g. space hulk where the animation locks are disgustingly long and, since it's turnbased, the player can do absolutely nothing for seconds at a time while a canned animation plays. realtime doesn't get that issue, but it can get into the problem of things happening faster than the player can process or insufficient information being provided - the command and conquer games are absolutely nasty for newcomers for this reason, well-designed as they are, but there's tons of examples of bad realtime games.

 

my only pure bigotry is fuck realtime with pause. fuck you, baldur's gate.

 

1 hour ago, Capt. Fargus said:

Just got done readin some articles on WRPGs vs JRPGs and apparently one difference between em is the combat system.

this is a pretty huge misconception for whatever it's worth. even using the absolute most orthodox terms for wrpgs and jrpgs, plenty of wrpgs (pretty much any of the ones that didn't take their dna from baldur's gate) have been turnbased, and even baldur's gate (and RTWP in general) was conceived as a way to present turnbased combat in real time, which is a big reason why it's so bad. i'm less versed in jrpgs, but final fantasy xii is right there as basically just arriving at RTWP from a different direction, and if you're using 'jrpg' in any way that's more modern than what we used it as kids in 2005 then the genre will include a shitload of realtime and even pure action games. it's not completely out there to call dark souls a jrpg.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Integrity

[Capt. Fargus]

5 minutes ago, Integrity said:

my only pure bigotry is fuck realtime with pause. fuck you, baldur's gate.

 

 

Dayum thats kinda harsh Lol 😆

 

Only one of those I’ve played so far is the Dark Alliance one for the Game Boy advance

[Integrity]

that's a totally different kind of game - the dark alliance games were top-down hack-n-slashers with stripped down rpg components meant to make a more Arcadey combat game in the forgotten realms universe. the classic baldur's gates play completely differently, and far worse.

E: ftr i meant none of that as an insult. the dark alliance games knew what they were and they owned it, and i have nothing but love and respect for em

Edited May 29, 2023 by Integrity

[Capt. Fargus]

58 minutes ago, Integrity said:

that's a totally different kind of game - the dark alliance games were top-down hack-n-slashers with stripped down rpg components meant to make a more Arcadey combat game in the forgotten realms universe. the classic baldur's gates play completely differently, and far worse.

E: ftr i meant none of that as an insult. the dark alliance games knew what they were and they owned it, and i have nothing but love and respect for em

No prob I know ya didnt. 😉

I aint that easily offended

Anyhoo I just put some of them D&D jobs on my laptop for gettin into at some point like Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale. Much obliged for the heads up. 

 

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

turn-based, rts is for watching only - I have neither the apm nor the keybindings and certainly not the willingness for the stress of tryna be everywhere all the time

Edit: didn´t know ctrl+enter posts post, lol

Quote

Is real time generally regarded as easier because I personally dont think it is and dont see how it could be.

I don´t think that´s something you can equate. What´s more diffcult: high level sc2 or high level chess? Then again, there is speed chess. Is speed chess just a rts turn based game?

Quote

the command and conquer games are absolutely nasty for newcomers for this reason, well-designed as they are

laughs in can i have some shoes and allied air souperiority

Edited May 29, 2023 by Imuabicus

[Integrity]

2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Is speed chess just a rts turn based game?

 

13 hours ago, Integrity said:

my only pure bigotry is fuck realtime with pause.

 

[Armchair General]

I'm almost surprised that there isn't an FE RTS mod lying around, somewhere

Apparently, they were working on one; but it never really took off

Edited May 29, 2023 by Armchair General

[vanguard333]

Honestly, both have their different strengths and weaknesses and I don't prefer one over the other. To me, what matters is that the combat makes me think about what I'm doing; I've seen mindless examples of action combat, and I've seen mindless examples of turn-based combat.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

1 hour ago, Integrity said:

4 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Is speed chess just a rts turn based game?

 

15 hours ago, Integrity said:

my only pure bigotry is fuck realtime with pause.

 

someone´s been in mp timeout

[Original Alear]

Reg speed chess: my bro used to play this game online called kungfu chess where battles between up to 4 opponents involved moving chess pieces that had cooldowns after you moved them, then they could be moved again.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Just sticking with JRPGs, I like action, turn-based, strategy, and even some flavors of real-time with pause.

 

For action, I'm particularly fond of Ys. Ys X Nordics is actually my most anticipated game right now, perhaps tied with Kuro no Kiseki. For turn-based, I'm a Persona/SMT guy. For strategy, well, that should be self-evident. And for RTWP, I'm a big fan of FF7 Remake and P5 Strikers, and I also enjoyed 13 Sentinels quite a bit.

 

The only real negative biases I have are that 1) real time strategy is generally a deal breaker and 2) strategy games and grid-based, turn-based games are uniquely poorly suited for grinding (I'll probably never really get into Disgaea for that reason).

Edited May 30, 2023 by Fabulously Olivier

[Capt. Fargus]

21 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Just sticking with JRPGs, I like action, turn-based, strategy, and even some flavors of real-time with pause.

 

For action, I'm particularly fond of Ys. Ys X Nordics is actually my most anticipated game right now, perhaps tied with Kuro no Kiseki. For turn-based, I'm a Persona/SMT guy. For strategy, well, that should be self-evident. And for RTWP, I'm a big fan of FF7 Remake and P5 Strikers, and I also enjoyed 13 Sentinels quite a bit.

 

The only real negative biases I have are that 1) real time strategy is generally a deal breaker and 2) strategy games and grid-based, turn-based games are uniquely poorly suited for grinding (I'll probably never really get into Disgaea for that reason).

I take it Warcraft and Warlords Battlecry wouldn’t be your cup of tea?

[Fabulously Olivier]

24 minutes ago, Capt. Fargus said:

I take it Warcraft and Warlords Battlecry wouldn’t be your cup of tea?

I played Warcraft 3 on easy back in the day just because the story was that good. As an actual game, no, not my cup of tea.

[Jotari]

I used to play Command and Conquer Red Alert 2 a lot as a kid. But I could never get into online play (when we eventually got internet fast enough to run it). Mainly because I felt like things came down less to strategy and more to combat speed. Other people could just build way faster than me and overwhelm me before I was even out the gate. You could of course set a slow build setting but then it takes ages to play a game against someone. When I eventually tried to play Star Craft 2 it was even worse, it felt like learning hot keys was a mandatory part of playing against other humans. So suffice to say I like turn based strategies a lot better. That's for strategies, of course, an action or fighting game being real time and depending on reflexes is absolutely fine, but for a strategy game I want my mind to be the determinating factor and not how quickly I can press certain keys a clicks in order.

One issue I have with turn based in RPGs is that it tends to get difficult to make them both challenging and good when you get to higher level end game play. Early on the developers match stats of enemies and bosses knowing how much sage they can do and limit your tool set so you have a certain effective strategy to beat them. But then when you get to no holds max stat super bosses, it feels like the only way to make them challenging is to buff their stats to ridiculous levels, but that doesn't even make them hard, just tedious. And because it's turn based, there's usually a pretty optimal play you can use that is always effective, rendering most of what you can do pointless. Battles just become about using you're strongest attack over and over while sometimes topping up HP. I think Final Fantasy X is one of the most obvious offenders of this. For what it's worth Pokemon actually isn't and actually has very good high level play with how many different type and move interactions there is (there are of course some dominant strategies but everything has a counter), it's just unfortunate that you have to play through a full pokemon game and spend dozens of hours trying to breed perfect IVs to reach that high level play.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

I used to play Command and Conquer Red Alert 2 a lot as a kid.

Kirov Reporting?

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

When I eventually tried to play Star Craft 2 it was even worse, it felt like learning hot keys was a mandatory part of playing against other humans.

you just need a casual 100-400 apm, with the occasional 800-1200 spike

easy

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

For what it's worth Pokemon actually isn't and actually has very good high level play with how many different type and move interactions there is (there are of course some dominant strategies but everything has a counter), it's just unfortunate that you have to play through a full pokemon game and spend dozens of hours trying to breed perfect IVs to reach that high level play.

Or you take a look at the romhacks available - from what I´ve seen, some of them like Emerald Kaizo are pretty diffcult, especially if you don´t overlevel. 

cough pkhex cough

[Jotari]

15 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Kirov Reporting?

you just need a casual 100-400 apm, with the occasional 800-1200 spike

easy

Or you take a look at the romhacks available - from what I´ve seen, some of them like Emerald Kaizo are pretty diffcult, especially if you don´t overlevel. 

cough pkhex cough

I don't like pokemon nearly enough to get into its fanhacks. When I get the itch to explore its battlesystem then pokemon showdown scratches the itch.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Jotari

[RibsChirino]

I enjoy turn-based but nowadays I prefer high-speed Action RPG combat

[Lord_Brand]

Turn-based: Mashing buttons slowly to attack and sometimes cast spells or use items.

Real-time: Mashing buttons quickly to attack and sometimes cast spells or use items.

I have fondness for both. I will say that turn-based tends to work better for RPGs where you control a party, while real-time tends to work better for RPGs where you play just one character at a time.

[MercyWalk]

I really dislike turn based systems that are like the earlier Final Fantasy games, it feels like such a chore without any immediately satisfying feedback when 80% of fights don't require an ounce of brainpower, and harder fights in this context usually are only ramping up numbers without too many variables at play. It feels better when you have constant hit sounds and feedback like in Kingdom Hearts.

However tRPG turn based systems usually have more at stake, whether it's the health/positioning/resource system etc. so it usually feels like a satisfying challenge with all the variables involved, and those are my favourite.

Edited September 14, 2023 by MercyWalk