three houses My AM Maddening Run

[Alef Zero]

I've just finished my first (and most likely last) run of Maddening. I decided to make one last TH run before moving to engage, and what better route and my favourite Blue Lions house. Since my brother summarized the difficulty as "Actually maddening", to the point of playing one map a day, I decided to make as smooth as possible - I had 50k renown for NG+ goodies, DLC and on casual mode (please don't eat me for this).

My general experience was mixed. Thanks to NG+ bonuses, so giving everyone who had it, death, fiendish blows as well as free batalions, early game was much easier than I expected (contrary to horror stories I've read about needing entire team to down one enemy). I gave myself max professor level from the start, so it was smooth sailing all the way to time-skip. I was rather surprised how high skill presidencies were reached, no doubt thanks to much more rounds of combat in general, as well as slower leveling, even with statue bonuses - in fact, those characters that did need mastering some classes, did so without any grind. Nice, unexpected turn of events.

Then came the dreaded 13 chapter. It took me only 2 tries - I had my Dimitri camp in bushes with killer lance+ and Byleth stay where he started. Dimitri managed to dodge most enemies, leaving them with low hp, some he even crited to death. When they clumped together I used Byleth's wave attack gambit to tattle them all and give myself breathing room. After Mercedes arrived and Dimitri could be healed, it was smooth from that point on. No one retreated.

The rest of the game didn't pose too much of a threat save for one instance - fort merceus. I screwed up and had dimitri with battalion of only 4 endurance - his Optimal build was online, but a single hit would break it completely, and there was an abundance of ballistas and fire orbs. I also made Byleth an Enlighten One for this map, which was a huge mistake. In the end, Mercedes retreated - I just had too few units to wipe all enemies on the center of the map, two fortress knights remained and the second one finished her. After that it was a matter of one atrocity, and death knight was out.
Side-note: despite this being my third AM run, this was the first time I saw the scene with Mercedes saying last goodbye to Emile. Apparently, you need to finish her paralogue, but I never recruited Caspar before, and on SS she does not have the scene. I was somewhat spooked.

Final map went surprisingly well. This time, Dimitri had blue lion corps at 40 durability, perfect match. Mycen was vantaged, while everyone else went to clear the room on the left. Hapi's Banshee was invaluable to stop war masters in place, while Marianne silenced the one mage I couldn't reach in one turn. After that, I used impregnable wall (can you believe I didn't know it existed before?) on paladin Sylvain who went to take care of fire orb mage. Next turn, I used rescue to get him out of the range and used my entire team to kill the monster. After that, Optimal Dimitri did the thing: this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b67fgXJBW2k basically, just as great lord instead and without warp. He went from level 47 to 49. After all enemies save for monsters were out, it was time for hegemon. Only Dimitri, Byleth, Seteth and Sylvain were able to deal meaningful dmg, but I used impregnable wall to have Hapi and Marianne attack hegemon to break her shield, no dmg was required for that.
Fun-fact - Edelgard gets a free attack if Dimitri is in range, which can activate his vantage and one-shot her healthbar and end her turn, before her shield regrows. Hilarious.

Almost no units were killed - none on my side (casual), I recruted Lorenz and Ferdinand, managed to spare Leoni and Raphael by going around straight for Edelgard, and then sniping Cloude. Lindhard died - I never liked him, he's gay and asshole decided to walk into the central place on the map, that already caused me an actual headache. I had Dedue fist him to death.

I'd like to share a few thoughts on my unit performances:

• Byleth - I usually keep him as Enlightened One, since I like this class, but time time went War Monk->War Master. It worked well enough, pre-timeskip he was one-rounding everyone with silver gauntlets, post time-skip, killer gauntlets as war master did the trick. +20 crit was also useful for sword of the creator. He was tanky enough (brawling avoid, hp drain from crest, high stats) to draw aggro and not die. I stand by war master being his best class, I don't think wyvern lord would be capable of ORKOs.
• Dimitri - pretty inconsistent. As a general unit, he was underwhelming - he had insane strength, but enemies have so much health, that without brave lance or atrocity, he would still not ORKO. His speed is high, but without darting blow, always ever so lacking to double. His defence is decent, but enemies deal so much damage tanking is out. He ended up with 85 HP though, so he could take some punishment.
  Then comes The Optimal Dimitri - b. vantage + b. wrath + killer lance + chalice of beginning == borderline exploit. Unless there were monsters or siege weapons, he was literally death incarnate. He fought so much, that he reached S+ in lances and authority before fort merceus. I highly recommend this build, since otherwise, he's not living up to his lord position. I used great lord class, since I really like his animations, but I now think there was enough time to make him war master, again, I don't think WL would be capable of ORKO, without brave lance or atrocity.
• Sylvain - I usually made him a dark knight, this time went with safe WL. Nothing to say really, he was spamming swift strikes like there is no tomorrow, and had high mobility. For the last few maps I used renown to make him a great knight, then a paladin - the latter was decently useful, but GK was a mess. Low mobility, low stats and axes still shredded him. My favourite class 😞
• Ingrid - people suggest WL to fix her strength, but I went with dark flier. Her spells are solid, dark flier boosts her insane speed (she ended up with 45, no boosters) and fiendish blow + dark tomefaire + doubling was enough to ORKO almost all enemies. Gave her levin sword as backup. She could double some falcons, but not sword masters or final map war masters. Her offense still ended up low (had to give her some magic bosters), but I believe dark flier is her best class - magic dmg. is easier to salvage, since enemies have staggering defence on maddening.
• Felix - sword classes suck and I needed bow user, so made him a sniper. With quick repose, close counter and hunter volley, he was doubling regardless of phase, ORKOing left and right. Aegis Shield would proc frequently thanks to sniper's high dex, so he could even engage in melee. He started to lag behind by the end tho, that 5 mov is a dread. Since he could take all bows, maybe bow knight with brave bow would be a better idea. Still, a beast.
• Mercedes - mostly healing, but decent dmg. with reson spells. Could be a bishop, but I made her a gremory - I prefer her animations and i more mov. Used caduceus.
• Annette - poor girl. One of my favourite characters, but I just can't get her to work. She's a mediocre gremory, warlock has only 4 mov. I went with bolt/lightning axe wielding WL, but since WL bonuses directly contrasts with her personal, she ended up with mediocre numbers in every stat. If I ever play the game again I'll try dark knight/valkyrie with axes as secondary weapon.
• Marianne - my lovely girl was spectacular all run. As valkyrie she was hitting enemies for 90%-100% hp with 100% accuracy (bless uncanny blow) and healing with physic as necessary. She was briefly a dark knight, but I ended up with mortal savant - she was hitting with steel sword plus soul blade for 80 dmg. Her spd was pathetic from spending all game in mounted classes, so MS speed penalty was meaningless.
• Hapi - pretty easy path: mage->valkyrie-> dark knight. Gave her thyrsus, so with death T and dark range+, she had 6 range spells with 100% accuracy, which is pretty insane. Her swarm and banshee were invaluable throughout the game. Fantastic unit.
• Seteth - like Sylvain, not much to talk about - WL spamming swift strikes to ORKO everyone. Briefly made him great knight, with miserable results. With spear of assal and ochain shield, he healed for 40 hp every turn, so quite tanky.
• Dedue - pretty underwhelming. Went with war master, so he could reliably ORKO, but he was surprisingly easy to kill, and was doubled by everyone. Expected more.
• Flayn - she's adorable, but her proficiency are shit. I didn't want another dark flier, and she's a mediocre gremory, so made her my dancer. In the end, I rarely deployed her, I don't like using dancers honestly.

Would I like to try maddening again? Not likely. Post-timeskip, stat inflation starts to get really out of hand, poison strike on every single archer makes certain strategies unusable, and enemies swarm you from every side. I can't imagine playing maddening without ng+.
There were some things I liked though - thanks to slower leveling, no grind was required to master classes and reach high proficiencies. I also really liked more skills on enemies - like breaker skills, or armored strike on armors. If poison strike was just on snipers and not fricking bow knights, it would be fine. quick repose on 51 speed swordmasters is a bit much though.

It also makes certain classes, which were already underwheling on lower difficulties, borderline unusuable. Great Knight, Holy Knight, Mortal Savant (mostly), Hero - all interesting and visually striking classes, which will cause nothing but pain, if you try to use them. I will never forgive them for massacring great knight this much. It's painful.

Thanks to all that read this behemoth and let me end with this - whoever invented same turn reinforcements, should be sent to the galleys for all eternity, to swim on the sea kissel, with chief who loves water skiing. Maybe after 50 years, he could be given an oar.

 

Edited September 3 by Alef Zero

[Shaky Jones]

46 minutes ago, Alef Zero said:

Since my brother summarized the difficulty as "Actually maddening", to the point of playing one map a day

With a monastery system like 3 Houses, playing one map a day is just the healthy lifestyle.

48 minutes ago, Alef Zero said:

I had 50k renown for NG+ goodies, DLC and on casual mode (please don't eat me for this)

No, we wouldn't eat you for that.

I would burn you though for not using Hanneman and Raphael.

48 minutes ago, Alef Zero said:

Thanks to NG+ bonuses, so giving everyone who had it, death, fiendish blows as well as free batalions, early game was much easier than I expected (contrary to horror stories I've read about needing entire team to down one enemy). I gave myself max professor level from the start, so it was smooth sailing all the way to time-skip.

Some NG+ bonuses are game breaking early on, but I often do find myself getting max professor rank to reduce tedium. I think buying skills like hit +20 is also fair enough, because where's the fun in missing all maddening enemies because of bloated speed.

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

Lindhard died - I never liked him, he's gay

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

I had Dedue fist him to death

Well I'm sure he enjoyed it.

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

ngrid - people suggest WL to fix her strength, but I went with dark flier. Her spells are solid, dark flier boosts her insane speed (she ended up with 45, no boosters) and fiendish blow + dark tomefaire + doubling was enough to ORKO almost all enemies. Gave her levin sword as backup. She could double some falcons, but not sword masters or final map war masters. Her offense still ended up low (had to give her some magic bosters), but I believe dark flier is her best class - magic dmg. is easier to salvage, since enemies have staggering defence on maddening.

>Be me

>use Ingrid

>no strength

>give death blow

>still can't kill

>use dark flier Ingrid in next AM run

>has no strength OR magic

It's over.

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

Dimitri - pretty inconsistent. As a general unit, he was underwhelming - he had insane strength, but enemies have so much health, that without brave lance or atrocity, he would still not ORKO. His speed is high, but without darting blow, always ever so lacking to double. His defence is decent, but enemies deal so much damage tanking is out. He ended up with 85 HP though, so he could take some punishment.
Then comes The Optimal Dimitri - b. vantage + b. wrath + killer lance + chalice of beginning == borderline exploit. Unless there were monsters or siege weapons, he was literally death incarnate. He fought so much, that he reached S+ in lances and authority before fort merceus. I highly recommend this build, since otherwise, he's not living up to his lord position. I used great lord class, since I really like his animations, but I now think there was enough time to make him war master, again, I don't think WL would be capable of ORKO, without brave lance or atrocity.

And then you find out the most busted unit it the game: Dancer Dimitri.

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

I can't imagine playing maddening without ng+.

What, you don't want the piss title screen reward?

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

It also makes certain classes, which were already underwheling on lower difficulties, borderline unusuable. Great Knight, Holy Knight, Mortal Savant (mostly), Hero - all interesting and visually striking classes, which will cause nothing but pain, if you try to use them. I will never forgive them for massacring great knight this much. It's painful.

They're noticeably harder to make work, but there are ways around it, which can be kind of satisfying. Heroes at least can help with vantage wrath builds given their built in vantage so you have more room for other skills, so I've made a few game breaking heroes. Great Knights can still be good near the end reclassing from a fortress knight for crazy defense and decent enough move, but if you're trying to be optimal, your team is just going to be snipers, wyverns, and gremories. 

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

Thanks to all that read this behemoth and let me end with this - whoever invented same turn reinforcements, should be sent to the galleys for all eternity, to swim on the sea kissel, with chief who loves water skiing. Maybe after 50 years, he could be given an oar

If you're talking about adding ambush spawns to 3 Houses, yes. Burn their house down like Acheron's palace. If you're talking about the actual invention of it, then you'll have to defeat Kaga himself, as ambush reinforcements were a thing since the very beginning of the franchise. On your way to him, you'll inevitably land on a warp tile and reach a pitch black room full of blizzard siege tome users. It was nice knowing you.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

The secret ingredient to TH Maddening is Alert Stance. 

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

He ended up with 85 HP though, so he could take some punishment.

drugs

don´t do drugs

they turn you to bdsm

1 hour ago, Alef Zero said:

Mycen was vantaged,

Whomst?

Spoiler

 

If you aren´t warp skipping the last 5 maps of TH then you are doing it wrong.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Congrats. For what it's worth the horror stories about needing the whole team to down an enemy definitely aren't correct; even in the earlygame on NG, regular enemies should never ever need more than three attacks to kill and honestly two is usually possible if the second hit is Tempest Lance or a similarly powerful attack. If you ever try NG you might want to take a look at suggested earlygame investments for characters, but it's totally fair if you don't want to!

2 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

I stand by war master being [Byleth's] best class, I don't think wyvern lord would be capable of ORKOs.

Wyvern Lord Byleth is absolutely capable of ORKOs, in fact.

Level 40 Wyvern Lord Byleth has around 38 str and 31 spd. Str+2, Death Blow, Axefaire, their personal, and Cichol Wyverns or Galatea Pegasus yield 60 base attack. 73 with Brave Axe+, 77 with Silver+, 111 with Axe of Zoltan hitting weakness. This can one-round every enemy on Azure Moon endgame (either by doubling or by a brave) except the demonic beasts and the two War Masters who have battalions, which are very difficult enemies to ORKO generally. The only caveat is that Darting Blow or another source of speed is needed to double the mages / snipers / mortal savants (but you can kill all of those with brave even if you miss the double). This is without any strength boosters, Dimitri link, or a Flayn adjutant for +3.

Earlier maps have easier thresholds to reach (and cooking as well). Wyvern Lord is definitely Byleth's best class IMO. You don't get crit but Byleth shouldn't need crits to kill things, +2 move and flight on War Master are just too much. The only reason to consider a non-wyvern class for Byleth if you're optimizing is because you have too many other physical fliers already and the battalion situation is dire, and admittedly Azure Moon is the route this is most likely to be the case on.

2 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Thanks to all that read this behemoth and let me end with this - whoever invented same turn reinforcements, should be sent to the galleys for all eternity, to swim on the sea kissel, with chief who loves water skiing. Maybe after 50 years, he could be given an oar.

 

Yeah I hate them too. At this point I've played 3H enough times that I've memorized a lot of them, and divine pulse does help make them not as time-wasting as they are in, e.g., a blind and non-savestate playthrough of Binding Blade, but they're still frustrating design wise.

2 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

It also makes certain classes, which were already underwheling on lower difficulties, borderline unusuable. Great Knight, Holy Knight, Mortal Savant (mostly), Hero - all interesting and visually striking classes, which will cause nothing but pain, if you try to use them. I will never forgive them for massacring great knight this much. It's painful.

Yeah I dunno what's up with Great Knight. It would have been a mediocre class with standard A/B+/C requires of most other master mounted classes, but they went for A/B+/B+ which is brutal.

I think Mortal Savant has a use on maddening, but it's very much a "for units who benefit from sword magical combat arts but still want to use magic" which is a pretty short list (Lysithea, Dorothea, Marianne, Constance headline it). And even then it's a lateral choice, not an optimum one It's absolutely a trap class for units like Felix and Yuri whom you might think it's "intended" for. But then, most sword classes are kinda trap classes; I would consider Swordmaster possibly even worse than all the ones you listed, myself.

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

My general experience was mixed. Thanks to NG+ bonuses, so giving everyone who had it, death, fiendish blows as well as free batalions, early game was much easier than I expected (contrary to horror stories I've read about needing entire team to down one enemy).

Those horror stories are exaggerated. However, enemies hit hard as hell, so denying them the chance to do damage (primarily with bows, as hand axes and javelins SUCK) is more important than ever. Combat arts are also more useful, because most often you are only getting one hit, so might as well.

5 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Side-note: despite this being my third AM run, this was the first time I saw the scene with Mercedes saying last goodbye to Emile. Apparently, you need to finish her paralogue, but I never recruited Caspar before, and on SS she does not have the scene. I was somewhat spooked.

Apparently you do. But needing Caspar for her paralogue is #GuideDangIt because they don't even support.

5 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Fun-fact - Edelgard gets a free attack if Dimitri is in range, which can activate his vantage and one-shot her healthbar and end her turn, before her shield regrows. Hilarious.

Also, Edelgard will never attack Byleth with her ubermassive long range attack. And I presume this only works after she switches weapons.

5 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Ingrid - people suggest WL to fix her strength, but I went with dark flier. Her spells are solid, dark flier boosts her insane speed (she ended up with 45, no boosters) and fiendish blow + dark tomefaire + doubling was enough to ORKO almost all enemies. Gave her levin sword as backup. She could double some falcons, but not sword masters or final map war masters. Her offense still ended up low (had to give her some magic bosters), but I believe dark flier is her best class - magic dmg. is easier to salvage, since enemies have staggering defence on maddening.

Hmm... *presses X to doubt* she has only three black magic spells, and two of those have few uses.

5 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Annette - poor girl. One of my favourite characters, but I just can't get her to work. She's a mediocre gremory, warlock has only 4 mov. I went with bolt/lightning axe wielding WL, but since WL bonuses directly contrasts with her personal, she ended up with mediocre numbers in every stat. If I ever play the game again I'll try dark knight/valkyrie with axes as secondary weapon.

Personally, I find Gremory is her best class (as is the case for pretty much every magic inclined female character). Dark Knight is too much effort for too little gain imho, and Wyvern Lord Annette is, to be blunt, a shitty gimmick. Which you ended up finding out the hard way.

5 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Sylvain - I usually made him a dark knight, this time went with safe WL. Nothing to say really, he was spamming swift strikes like there is no tomorrow, and had high mobility. For the last few maps I used renown to make him a great knight, then a paladin - the latter was decently useful, but GK was a mess. Low mobility, low stats and axes still shredded him. My favourite class 😞

I would consider Dark Knight Sylvain suboptimal; it's too much effort for not enough gain, and red mage-esque builds just feel lacking compared to specialized builds. I would say something on Great Knight, but that's for later.

5 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Byleth - I usually keep him as Enlightened One, since I like this class, but time time went War Monk->War Master. It worked well enough, pre-timeskip he was one-rounding everyone with silver gauntlets, post time-skip, killer gauntlets as war master did the trick. +20 crit was also useful for sword of the creator. He was tanky enough (brawling avoid, hp drain from crest, high stats) to draw aggro and not die. I stand by war master being his best class, I don't think wyvern lord would be capable of ORKOs.

I... am not exactly a fan of Wyvern Lord Byleth, but more than anything else due to needing lots of faculty training.

5 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

It also makes certain classes, which were already underwheling on lower difficulties, borderline unusuable. Great Knight, Holy Knight, Mortal Savant (mostly), Hero - all interesting and visually striking classes, which will cause nothing but pain, if you try to use them. I will never forgive them for massacring great knight this much. It's painful.

The real problem with Great Knight is how hard it is to qualify for. It'd be a decent class at least were it not for that imo (that said, it's still better than it was in Sacred Stones). Mortal Savant suffers from Master of None. Holy Knight is a bad joke; it's a worse Dark Knight, and my opinion of Dark Knight is already not high. I would also add War Monk/Cleric to the underwhelming list.

All of this said, congratulations. 

Edited September 3 by Shadow Mir

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

12 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Lindhard died - I never liked him, he's gay and asshole decided to walk into the central place on the map, that already caused me an actual headache.

You wanna be mad at him for being a lazy, insensitive jerk? Go right ahead. But going after his sexuality? That's a certified pitfall.

Also, Linhardt is technically bisexual, so joke's on you.

In any case, congrats on beating Maddening! NG+ makes a huge difference, not only in early access to skills and professor ranks, but also in a bundle of free battalions. Getting to use any of the three Lord battalions with just C-Authority is pretty absurd.

12 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

It also makes certain classes, which were already underwheling on lower difficulties, borderline unusuable. Great Knight, Holy Knight, Mortal Savant (mostly), Hero - all interesting and visually striking classes, which will cause nothing but pain, if you try to use them. I will never forgive them for massacring great knight this much. It's painful.

Great Knight is actually has a distinct niche, as part of a "defense-stacking" strategy. Basically, put as much defense as possible on a single unit. Someone like Dedue, or Balthus. That way, enemies like Swordmasters or Grapplers - who usually double your entire army, presenting a serious threat - are stuck doing single-digit damage. Impregnable Wall works to this end, too, but you lose the chance to counter. None of this is to forgive the class's "worst-in-game" skill rank demands, though.

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Personally, I find Gremory is her best class (as is the case for pretty much every magic inclined female character). Dark Knight is too much effort for too little gain imho, and Wyvern Lord Annette is, to be blunt, a shitty gimmick. Which you ended up finding out the hard way.

I, for one, love the ability of Gremory Annette to ignore tough-to-cross terrain. It's also great having the Canto skill, so that she can move again after a Rally, support gambit, or repositional art. And not only that, but being able to attack targets 11 tiles away from her starting point? Who else could achieve that, but a 5-move infantry unit with 2-range spells? Certainly not an 8-move flier with a 3-range magical weapon, no sirree!

9 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

I think Mortal Savant has a use on maddening, but it's very much a "for units who benefit from sword magical combat arts but still want to use magic" which is a pretty short list (Lysithea, Dorothea, Marianne, Constance headline it).

Manuela and Anna would belong here too... except they have banes in Reason. What a killer.

On my first run, it was a "trap class" for Catherine. Despite her Reason bane and nonexistent spell list, as a Sword user, I figured I needed to get her into the only master class with Swordfaire, right? ...Right?

11 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

On your way to him, you'll inevitably land on a warp tile and reach a pitch black room full of blizzard siege tome users. It was nice knowing you.

When seeking out Kaga, be sure to bring a Torch, a vial of Pure Water, and a blank SNES cartridge that he can upload a fragment of his soul into.

[Alef Zero]

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19 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Annette - poor girl. One of my favourite characters, but I just can't get her to work. She's a mediocre gremory, warlock has only 4 mov. I went with bolt/lightning axe wielding WL, but since WL bonuses directly contrasts with her personal, she ended up with mediocre numbers in every stat. If I ever play the game again I'll try dark knight/valkyrie with axes as secondary weapon.

Personally, I find Gremory is her best class (as is the case for pretty much every magic inclined female character). Dark Knight is too much effort for too little gain imho, and Wyvern Lord Annette is, to be blunt, a shitty gimmick. Which you ended up finding out the hard way.

Given than, as a Gremory, she was underwhelming even on hard mode, I cannot agree. Dark Knight gives her similar mobility to WL, while retaining her spell access. As a girl, she can go into valkyrie at level 20 as a stepping stone, b+ reason, b riding is achievable without much trouble. A riding for dark knight is a bit steep, but so is A flying for WL, she's neutral in both. She also does not need high axe rank - only enough for bolt axe (since crusher is E rank). If she learns uncanny blow, she has no need for axe prowess.
Heck, she can even stay as valkyrie, black tomefaire would not enhance her axe attacks after all.

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The real problem with Great Knight is how hard it is to qualify for. It'd be a decent class at least were it not for that imo (that said, it's still better than it was in Sacred Stones). Mortal Savant suffers from Master of None. Holy Knight is a bad joke; it's a worse Dark Knight, and my opinion of Dark Knight is already not high. I would also add War Monk/Cleric to the underwhelming list.

In my opinion, the biggest problems of MS and GK are their bonuses. The ideas are solid - swordmaster with access to magic, and a fortress knight on a horse/paladin with heavy armor. The problem is their performance.
Mortal Savant - give him about 5 more points distributed between str, mag and spd and change speed growth from silly -10 do respectable +20 and fill his third slow (I'd go for tomebreaker, it fits thematically with warding blow) and voila, a solid, valid class.
Great Knight - 2 more str, 2 dex and 2 more def. What's the point of giving him him dual faires, if he has such low str, that wyvern deals almost the same damage without faires? But most importantly, fix his requirements - A lance OR A axe, B armor, B+ riding, would be fine.

On the other hand, Holy Knight and Hero fail, as the idea for them is flawed - offensive white mage, in a game with little offensive white magic? A class with innate vantage, but no easy way to get wrath? This was doomed to fail.
I could swear HK was supposed to be an upgrade to paladin - look at the model, it's clearly a paladin model with bigger shoulderpads and a cape. Maybe at some point they decided they want white magic equivalent to dark knight, all reason be damned? Maybe.
Take holy knight, add all stat bonuses from paladin, change skillset to lancefaire, white tomefaire, canto, and requirements to A lance, B faith, B+ riding and you get a much desired master class for lance using males. Hell, this is almost exaclty what holy knight is in three hopes, what the hell?

As for hero, I don't know why he couldn't have sol, since the skill ALREADY EXIST, in the form of crest of flames. Still, if he can't have then my idea is: +2 def, +2 luk, swordfaire, axebreaker, lancebreaker. This makes hero a strong frontline (as he should be) - solid defences, solid accuracy and dodge against axe and lance users. Nothing spectacular, but it would a great class for late comers, or just for units you have no idea for.

And since we're fixing classes, give EO white tomefaire and GL swordfaire. It fits them thematically, and prevents those classes from having an empty slot.

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I would consider Dark Knight Sylvain suboptimal; it's too much effort for not enough gain, and red mage-esque builds just feel lacking compared to specialized builds. I would say something on Great Knight, but that's for later.

I agree, but on hard mode, his swift strikes are enough to ORKO even without lancefaire and I like flexible classes. Magic dmg. is usually better than physical, even basic fire is better than short spears and black magic avoid +20 is neat.
Unfortunately, on maddening it would not be enough, and that's why I went with WL for him.

[Alef Zero]

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You wanna be mad at him for being a lazy, insensitive jerk? Go right ahead. But going after his sexuality? That's a certified pitfall.

Also, Linhardt is technically bisexual, so joke's on you.

I am prepared to be judged for that, but I'm not feeling bad. This is how I feel, and no amount of critique will change it.

Still, I regret his death, he never wanted to take part in the war in the first place. I could've planned it better (maybe going left? But I didn't want to fight the monster there), but I hate that map and just wanted it to finish. If I ever play again, I'll try recruiting him to avoid this problem, at least Lysithea can have an ending other than with Hanneman. I don't think he's that much of a jerk, and I'm lazy as well.

Quote

Great Knight is actually has a distinct niche, as part of a "defense-stacking" strategy. Basically, put as much defense as possible on a single unit. Someone like Dedue, or Balthus. That way, enemies like Swordmasters or Grapplers - who usually double your entire army, presenting a serious threat - are stuck doing single-digit damage. Impregnable Wall works to this end, too, but you lose the chance to counter. None of this is to forgive the class's "worst-in-game" skill rank demands, though.

MAYBE on hard, maybe. On maddening, great knight Seteth with duscur battalion (10 def) was still taking around 20 dmg from warriors. And being doubled by literally everything, but that's a given. Poison strike also ignores all that defence, mages one shots them etc. It's much more trouble than it's worth, especially with ridiculous requirements.
Hell, on my hard mode run, GK Ferdinand Von Aegir still couldn't 0-dmg. enemy swordmasters. And let's not forget, with only +1 str, without stuff like swift strikes, GK is not ORKO anyone. So a slow tank, that cannot tank OR kill enemies. Ugh.

Quote

On my first run, it was a "trap class" for Catherine. Despite her Reason bane and nonexistent spell list, as a Sword user, I figured I needed to get her into the only master class with Swordfaire, right? ...Right?

Actually,  is this some kind of twisted joke? what was reasoning behind it? Felix is literally coded for this class (always talking about swords, hidden talent in reason, he even has a sword,reason training request) and it's terrible for him even on hard mode.

Quote

When seeking out Kaga, be sure to bring a Torch, a vial of Pure Water, and a blank SNES cartridge that he can upload a fragment of his soul into.

I'd prefer vantage, wrath and retribution. I want to be like Dimitri, dammnit!

Edited September 4 by Alef Zero

[Integrity]

2 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

I am prepared to be judged for that, but I'm not feeling bad. This is how I feel, and no amount of critique will change it.

for anyone else reading the thread, you will be judged for that and should feel bad. have a great day 🙂

op's on a two-week suspension and last strike because it's a holiday weekend and i'm feeling generous so don't expect him to respond to any of your posts, but i'll leave the thread open i guess

e: for the record the suspension ought to have been on sight, but on account of it's a holiday weekend i spent yesterday drinking beer and playing total warhammer and only checked the site once in the morning and figured everything would be nice and calm. guy lucked out and posted like an hour after i checked in

Edited September 4 by Integrity

[Shadow Mir]

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

On my first run, it was a "trap class" for Catherine. Despite her Reason bane and nonexistent spell list, as a Sword user, I figured I needed to get her into the only master class with Swordfaire, right? ...Right?

Oof. While we're talking about it, I'd mention Felix. In-game during the pre-timeskip period, he may ask about why he should bother with magic during the first week of instruction. While the best answer for Professor EXP is that knowing magic will make him a stronger swordsman, the funny thing is, that fails to have any merit in gameplay; one, his magic stat is unimpressive, two, he has a Reason bane; sure, he also has a budding talent in it, but it's a Powerup Letdown because... three, his black magic list is bone dry, with only Thunder and Thoron. And that's before Mortal Savant's mediocrity. 

3 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

As for hero, I don't know why he couldn't have sol, since the skill ALREADY EXIST, in the form of crest of flames.

Sol stopped being worth it after Radiant Dawn. And to be honest, Sol wouldn't be anywhere near powerful in this game. There ain't even any need to theorycraft this; multiple crests have a weaker life drain effect, and some of these crests are on some of the hardest hitting units in the game.

3 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

And since we're fixing classes, give EO white tomefaire and GL swordfaire. It fits them thematically, and prevents those classes from having an empty slot.

White Tomefaire might as well be an empty slot. There are all of 4 offensive white magic spells, and all of them but one (Seraphim, which Byleth doesn't get) are bad.

3 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Still, if he can't have then my idea is: +2 def, +2 luk, swordfaire, axebreaker, lancebreaker. This makes hero a strong frontline (as he should be) - solid defences, solid accuracy and dodge against axe and lance users. Nothing spectacular, but it would a great class for late comers, or just for units you have no idea for.

Unfortunarely, breakers got nerfed, and not only that they're dependent on using a specific weapon.

3 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

Given than, as a Gremory, she was underwhelming even on hard mode, I cannot agree. Dark Knight gives her similar mobility to WL, while retaining her spell access. As a girl, she can go into valkyrie at level 20 as a stepping stone, b+ reason, b riding is achievable without much trouble. A riding for dark knight is a bit steep, but so is A flying for WL, she's neutral in both. She also does not need high axe rank - only enough for bolt axe (since crusher is E rank). If she learns uncanny blow, she has no need for axe prowess.
Heck, she can even stay as valkyrie, black tomefaire would not enhance her axe attacks after all.

Like I said, I dislike Dark Knight for requiring too much effort to get into and being a letdown on the battlefield for all that work. (For the record, a magic build only needs reason, faith, and authority. Dark Knight requires lances and riding as well, and if you want to use the Bolt Axe, you need a lot of axe investment on top of all this. That's asking way too much!) As for the Crusher, it's drearily inaccurate, and it's a heavy melee weapon to boot - you think that's gonna end well for Annette??? Because I sure don't. The Bolt Axe has range, but accuracy is still a problem.

3 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

In my opinion, the biggest problems of MS and GK are their bonuses. The ideas are solid - swordmaster with access to magic, and a fortress knight on a horse/paladin with heavy armor. The problem is their performance.
Mortal Savant - give him about 5 more points distributed between str, mag and spd and change speed growth from silly -10 do respectable +20 and fill his third slow (I'd go for tomebreaker, it fits thematically with warding blow) and voila, a solid, valid class.
Great Knight - 2 more str, 2 dex and 2 more def. What's the point of giving him him dual faires, if he has such low str, that wyvern deals almost the same damage without faires? But most importantly, fix his requirements - A lance OR A axe, B armor, B+ riding, would be fine.

For me, the issue with Mortal Savant is that it's basically outclassed physically AND magically.

3 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

I agree, but on hard mode, his swift strikes are enough to ORKO even without lancefaire and I like flexible classes. Magic dmg. is usually better than physical, even basic fire is better than short spears and black magic avoid +20 is neat.
Unfortunately, on maddening it would not be enough, and that's why I went with WL for him.

Being flexible is one thing, but I don't see much need for that if I have dedicated mages. Also, see my point about Dark Knight above.

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I, for one, love the ability of Gremory Annette to ignore tough-to-cross terrain. It's also great having the Canto skill, so that she can move again after a Rally, support gambit, or repositional art. And not only that, but being able to attack targets 11 tiles away from her starting point? Who else could achieve that, but a 5-move infantry unit with 2-range spells? Certainly not an 8-move flier with a 3-range magical weapon, no sirree!

Yeah, having your only magic options have shit accuracy is SO WORTH IT. Not to mention the fact that pretty much all magic battalions are grounded. Long story short, it's good... in Three Hopes, that is.

Edited September 4 by Shadow Mir

[Shaky Jones]

23 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Whomst?

  Reveal hidden contents

Who would've guessed he was conspiring the downfall of Fodlan all this time?

Hey, I'd take it over angry mole men screeching.

23 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

If you aren´t warp skipping the last 5 maps of TH then you are doing it wrong.

Thracia fans when you tell them the lategame is actually beatable without warps

22 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Wyvern Lord Byleth is absolutely capable of ORKOs, in fact.

Level 40 Wyvern Lord Byleth has around 38 str and 31 spd. Str+2, Death Blow, Axefaire, their personal, and Cichol Wyverns or Galatea Pegasus yield 60 base attack. 73 with Brave Axe+, 77 with Silver+, 111 with Axe of Zoltan hitting weakness. This can one-round every enemy on Azure Moon endgame (either by doubling or by a brave) except the demonic beasts and the two War Masters who have battalions, which are very difficult enemies to ORKO generally. The only caveat is that Darting Blow or another source of speed is needed to double the mages / snipers / mortal savants (but you can kill all of those with brave even if you miss the double). This is without any strength boosters, Dimitri link, or a Flayn adjutant for +3.

Earlier maps have easier thresholds to reach (and cooking as well). Wyvern Lord is definitely Byleth's best class IMO. You don't get crit but Byleth shouldn't need crits to kill things, +2 move and flight on War Master are just too much. The only reason to consider a non-wyvern class for Byleth if you're optimizing is because you have too many other physical fliers already and the battalion situation is dire, and admittedly Azure Moon is the route this is most likely to be the case on.

You say all this as if wyvern isn't the best class on anyone.

22 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I think Mortal Savant has a use on maddening, but it's very much a "for units who benefit from sword magical combat arts but still want to use magic" which is a pretty short list (Lysithea, Dorothea, Marianne, Constance headline it).

Mortal Savant Hanneman is very entertaining. Funny old man runs over the place with his katana while casting down meteor. Not like the speed nerf affects him.

Yeah it's not war master, but crest man dual wielding Blutgang and Thunderbrand is a great way to spice up your runs. I recommend it. We need more appreciation for the real good characters of Houses.

12 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

You wanna be mad at him for being a lazy, insensitive jerk? Go right ahead. But going after his sexuality? That's a certified pitfall.

Oh don't you call it that. I might have to get myself suspended just to piss off Mekkah fans.

21 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Wyvern Lord Annette is, to be blunt, a shitty gimmick

About as shitty as someone on a wyvern class could be, so about 70% game breaking.

I practically have to ban the class in future runs to be fair. Not snipers though. I love bows too much. Wyvern Annete actually survived one hit! What a delight.

12 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Who else could achieve that, but a 5-move infantry unit with 2-range spells? Certainly not an 8-move flier with a 3-range magical weapon, no sirree!

>Use Gilbert

>Reclass to Warlock

> Give boots

>Give Thyrsus

>Gain +1 range magic through S rank black tome 

> Obtain defiant crit

> Give crit ring

> Use thunder until lack of crest nearly dissolves your humanity

>Critical 6 range thoron

Now you're thinking with magic.

12 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

When seeking out Kaga, be sure to bring a Torch, a vial of Pure Water, and a blank SNES cartridge that he can upload a fragment of his soul into.

You REALLY don't want to forget the SNES cartridge. Things get brutal.

4 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

I am prepared to be judged for that, but I'm not feeling bad. This is how I feel, and no amount of critique will change it.

4 hours ago, Alef Zero said:

I'd prefer vantage, wrath and retribution. I want to be like Dimitri, dammnit!

What a fool you are.

You can't just have vantage and wrath when confronting Kaga! Now it doesn't work anymore. Unlucky.

2 hours ago, Integrity said:

op's on a two-week suspension and last strike

Me when hate crime is suspendable (it infringes upon my freedom of speech)

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Not to mention the fact that pretty much all magic battalions are grounded.

Me when flying magic battalions cost 25 dollars:

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 9/4/2023 at 6:43 PM, Shaky Jones said:

On 9/4/2023 at 1:41 PM, Alef Zero said:

I'd prefer vantage, wrath and retribution. I want to be like Dimitri, dammnit!

What a fool you are.

You can't just have vantage and wrath when confronting Kaga! Now it doesn't work anymore. Unlucky.

Considering his banage, I think he meant the murderous insanity part a core requirement for royalty.

then again, insanity is probably grounds for non compos mente or something, so I suggest execution post chapter 17, child abuse clearly didn´t have STAB

On 9/4/2023 at 6:43 PM, Shaky Jones said:

Who would've guessed he was conspiring the downfall of Fodlan all this time?

Hey, I'd take it over angry mole men screeching.

what a moustache does to a mf

On 9/4/2023 at 6:43 PM, Shaky Jones said:

>Use Gilbert

>Reclass to Warlock

> Give boots

>Give Thyrsus

>Gain +1 range magic through S rank black tome 

> Obtain defiant crit

> Give crit ring

> Use thunder until lack of crest nearly dissolves your humanity

>Critical 6 range thoron

Now you're thinking with magic.

the magic:

Spoiler

 

Cope more, Gilbert will never be a magical girl.

On 9/4/2023 at 6:43 PM, Shaky Jones said:

Thracia fans when you tell them the lategame is actually beatable without warps

cringe, I spent all that time comitting interracial eugenics in Underleveled Incest Simulator: West meets East

chin is the best stat, look at Valbar and tell me I´m wrong

Edited September 12 by Imuabicus der Fertige

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Oof. While we're talking about it, I'd mention Felix. In-game during the pre-timeskip period, he may ask about why he should bother with magic during the first week of instruction. While the best answer for Professor EXP is that knowing magic will make him a stronger swordsman, the funny thing is, that fails to have any merit in gameplay; one, his magic stat is unimpressive, two, he has a Reason bane; sure, he also has a budding talent in it, but it's a Powerup Letdown because... three, his black magic list is bone dry, with only Thunder and Thoron. And that's before Mortal Savant's mediocrity. 

At the very least, fulfilling a budding talent in Reason or Faith should award an additional spell. So Felix could get Sagittae, whereas Dorothea could gain Seraphim. It would line up with weapon types granting an additional combat art, while making certain builds using those spells more viable.

7 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Oh don't you call it that. I might have to get myself suspended just to piss off Mekkah fans.

Pissing off the Mekkah fans? I won't say what that is, except that it rhymes with "crit wall".

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

White Tomefaire might as well be an empty slot. There are all of 4 offensive white magic spells, and all of them but one (Seraphim, which Byleth doesn't get) are bad.

I mean, 5 extra damage on Nosferatu is still better than "immunity to damage from terrain".

7 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Me when hate crime is suspendable (it infringes upon my freedom of speech)

OP got off easily. In Edelgard's utopic future version of Fódlan, homophobia willbe a capital offense.

Which is to say, she summons the perpetrator to Enbarr (the capital) and makes them write a thousand lines on the chalkboard.

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Yeah, having your only magic options have shit accuracy is SO WORTH IT. Not to mention the fact that pretty much all magic battalions are grounded. Long story short, it's good... in Three Hopes, that is.

Man, I wish I could get over the whole Warriors-ness of the gameplay to actually enjoy 3 Hopes. Sounds like there's an interesting story there, at least, that I'll likely never play.

[Shadow Mir]

On 9/4/2023 at 7:12 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I mean, 5 extra damage on Nosferatu is still better than "immunity to damage from terrain".

The problem is that Nosferatu is at one of its lowest points in the series; the only worse incarnations of it are in Blazing Blade, Sacred Stones and Path of Radiance. And it's for the exact same reason in all three cases; it's just too damn heavy. Granted, immunity to damaging terrain isn't always gonna come into play, but there are next to no situations where Nosferatu will be a better means of attack than literally anything else because it has all of 1 might, and it's rather heavy for how weak it is.

Edited September 6 by Shadow Mir

[LoneRecon400]

I'm surprised you didn't have much success with Wyvern Annette but had success with Soul Blade Marianne. With Nuvelle Fliers, Annette is capable of straight up one shot enemies at Endgame. Not a whole lot of magic units can say that one.

If you ever do try Maddening again though, I'd recommend focusing more heavily on support battalions. Like you mention how Dimitri is weak to balistas, but with the Sacred Shield Gambit you can nullify any attack that's not at 1 range.

Support gambits and Dancers are some of the strongest tools you can use in this game, so it really pays off to abuse them even if their stats on the battalion or combat  are not the greatest.

Take Dedue for instance. You found him to be mediocore, but he could put in a ton of work as a Assassin using Vengence and Impregenable Wall. Vengence makes him capable of one shoting the majority of enemies while Stealth makes enemies not target him as long as he's not the only unit in range. Combined with Impregenable Wall making other units effectively invincible, you can probably see why this setup can be really good.

Finding out powerful combinations like that is why I like playing through Maddening. Enemies are admittedly quite bloated in stats, but you have intreseting tools to play around with to make those stats a non issue.

Edited September 7 by LoneRecon400

[Shadow Mir]

17 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

I'm surprised you didn't have much success with Wyvern Annette

Hmph. I ain't surprised it floundered. It's a fucking scam. Far as I am concerned, to get the best out of a unit, you need to play to their strengths- and this is the exact opposite. 

[LoneRecon400]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Hmph. I ain't surprised it floundered. It's a fucking scam. Far as I am concerned, to get the best out of a unit, you need to play to their strengths- and this is the exact opposite. 

I posted an example of an average Mag Wyvern Annette one shoting endgame enemies with 100% Hit Rates while also having 8 movement and a 3 range attack option. I don't see how that's a scam considering even Lysithea can't one shot the War Masters on average.

What would even be Annette's strength otherwise? Put in Gremory or Warlock? Being locked 4-5 movement with weak spells doesn't seem like it'd play to her strength.

Edited September 8 by LoneRecon400

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

deja vu

we´ve been here before

a lot

no matter what

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 9/7/2023 at 11:41 AM, LoneRecon400 said:

I'm surprised you didn't have much success with Wyvern Annette but had success with Soul Blade Marianne. With Nuvelle Fliers, Annette is capable of straight up one shot enemies at Endgame. Not a whole lot of magic units can say that one.

I'm not surprised, myself. Marianne impressing players more than Annette is common, though admittedly the gap is closer considering Azure Moon only.

Marianne doesn't do quite as much damage, true, but she still one-shots the large majority of enemies for much of the game, and unlike Wyvern Annette she has access to Physic, which the original poster cited as a significant point in her favour (I would agree). She can also use Caduceus or Thyrsus to raise her attack and threat range (the original poster said those staves were on other units by default, but trading is still possible). Finally, she has better accuracy by a significant amount - her combat arts have hit bonuses, her weapons are more accurate, she has Uncanny Blow as per the original poster's notes, and she has access to ground battalions.

I know you got around the accuracy point with your own build which goes through Valkyrie, but that does make Annette's build quite expensive, since you'll need both good flying and good riding ranks (as well as the otherwise useless C lances for Annette).

In general I fall somewhere between you and Mir on this one (if closer to you); I definitely agree with you that Gremory/Warlock Annette is a waste of her talents; she does not have the ranged options to do well in a 4-5 move class, nor does she have spells which benefit a lot from double uses like Lysithea does. On the other hand I found Wyvern Annette an interesting but ultimately middling build when I tried it. I feel Dark Knight is probably the happy medium, here; she'd have almost the same damage (higher magic offsetting loss of Axefaire), doesn't monopolize Nuvelle Fliers (and can use various ground battalions), can heal, and is lighter on training due to no required flying rank (and Valkyrie will naturally work toward Dark Knight's riding).

(Also, to with regards to your last quoted sentence: while not many magic units can one-shot enemies on AM endgame, quite a number can two-shot them with Magic Bow Hunter's Volley or Aura Knuckles, both builds I found more impressive than Wyvern Annette myself. In the case of Sniper I find the range flexibility very useful, in the case of War Cleric the unit maintains spell access. Granted, Wyvern does have more move and canter so I can certainly see room for argument.) 

[LoneRecon400]

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Marianne one-shots and has access to Physic. She can also boost the range of her spells and has better accuracy.

Wyvern Annette's build is quite expensive since you'll need both good flying and good riding ranks.

I found Wyvern Annette an interesting but ultimately middling build when I tried it. I feel Dark Knight is probably the happy medium.

I always found healing to not be useful by the time advanced classes show up since you can simply negate damage with gambits, avoid it entirely, or defeat the enemy before they even have a chance to strike.

Spells can have increased range, but Marianne struggles to one shot when only advance class enemies show up and chip damage ain't really needed by that point.

You could just master Archer instead of Valkyrie for accuracy if you wanted less skill rank investment. C Bows only takes 6 weeks to train even with a bane with Sauna, or 4 weeks for D+ if you don't mind rigging for certifications. Fighting in Archer ain't too bad for her with the Lighting axe or the Bolt Axe.

Annette also doesn't really need Wyvern Lord to function. She can stay in Wyvern Rider just fine, so she really only needs B Axes, C Bows, and C Flying, which is pretty economical in terms of skill exp. She don't even need Nuvelle for the majority of the game as Lightining Axe and Dust is pretty overkill most of the time. It's really only for endgame where enemy HP sky rockets that she needs it.

Wyvern Annette isn't some game breaking option that's going to outpace Dimitri, but it's a decent high mobility option that can delete armors at range while also capable of deleting some enemies other units have a hard time with. I'd say it's better than Valkyrie Marianne since I value the movement substantial more, but it's admittedly arguable.

[Shadow Mir]

On 9/3/2023 at 11:45 AM, Shaky Jones said:

With a monastery system like 3 Houses, playing one map a day is just the healthy lifestyle.

Still better than My Castle actively punishing playing more than one map a day. At least this game didn't gate resource accessibility behind real time...

Edited September 13 by Shadow Mir

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 9/9/2023 at 3:40 PM, LoneRecon400 said:

I always found healing to not be useful by the time advanced classes show up since you can simply negate damage with gambits, avoid it entirely, or defeat the enemy before they even have a chance to strike.

Personally I find healing quite useful. I'm sure you can adapt your playstyle to not needing it, but conversely I can adapt (have adapted?) my playstyle to rarely if ever needing certain tools that you value - that's just the nature of 3H, it's a beautifully flexible game.

To elaborate on my view: negating damage with a gambit takes an action, so unless you can negate quite a bit of damage, it's not coming out ahead of healing in terms of action economy. Additionally, setting a damage-negating gambit requires giving up another useful gambit option, and often giving up stats as well, and the move can only be used at range 1. Meanwhile, units with access to healing have access to it without any loss of stats or other options, and can use it at range 10+.

Tactically, healing allows you to react to, instead of predict, enemy actions, and this is useful both in terms of ease of play and general flexibility. Let's say there's an archer who you don't plan to kill this turn who will be able to attack at least one of your units on enemy phase. If you target a unit with Impregnable Wall, enemies will ignore them if they have other options, so the only strategy is to have the wall'd unit be the only one (without Stealth) in the archer's range. By comparison, if you just heal after the archer attacks, you can leave as many units in range of that archer as you want (provided none of them can be killed in one hit). Impregnable Wall is an option, but it eliminates counterattack damage; healing afterwards does not have this drawback. I generally find it very useful to bait in enemies with units who can survive them and counter, since it draws enemies to bad positions, lets me kill some with counters, and those I don't kill will be weakened and easily killed by flexible options (including weaker damage sources like spells and Curved Shot) next turn.

In addition to its enemy phase applications, healing's also nice for using on units who kill via doubling (who tend to take counters at least sometimes) and topping up Ferdinand/Dimitri.

Magical units with access to Physic rate significantly higher than comparable units who don't (I just averaged 'em up, it's over a 1.5-point gap between their averages and that's with me being nice and not counting Lorenz or Anna toward Team No-Physic), with only Lysithea really bucking this trend and only because she brings so much else to the table. It's obvious a lot of people value it as a spell option.

On 9/9/2023 at 3:40 PM, LoneRecon400 said:

Wyvern Annette isn't some game breaking option that's going to outpace Dimitri, but it's a decent high mobility option that can delete armors at range while also capable of deleting some enemies other units have a hard time with. I'd say it's better than Valkyrie Marianne since I value the movement substantial more, but it's admittedly arguable.

That's certainly fair. Having 7-8 move and flight really limits how bad a unit can be. And I'll happily concede your build is better than the one I did back when I tried it last - I went through Wyvern Rider and honestly, I think that's part of why I was less impressed, because as a Wyvern Rider she still has no faith access and she often isn't able to kill armours at range. Bolt Axe is 15 weight, Wyvern Rider is 17 speed + 20ish str = 6 AS = not doubling much, while Wyvern Lord gets that nice base speed boost and will be at least 24 + 25ish str = 14 AS, which has a much easier time combined with any subsequent levels and bullheads, etc. Valkyrie's just a better place to be in Advanced, because Wind can actually double even with the class's bad speed. It also helps the build's struggles with accuracy.

[Shadow Mir]

On 9/4/2023 at 6:25 AM, Alef Zero said:

I agree, but on hard mode, his swift strikes are enough to ORKO even without lancefaire and I like flexible classes. Magic dmg. is usually better than physical, even basic fire is better than short spears and black magic avoid +20 is neat.
Unfortunately, on maddening it would not be enough, and that's why I went with WL for him.

I had already alluded to the uselessness of the likes of javelins and hand axes in this game; there's pretty much no scenario where they're better than anything else. If I want range, I get better mileage out of a bow. If I am prepping for enemy phase, I'm better off using a lighter and/or stronger weapon. As for Black Magic Avoid +20, it would be useful if it was actually on someone magically inclined.

On 9/4/2023 at 7:12 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Man, I wish I could get over the whole Warriors-ness of the gameplay to actually enjoy 3 Hopes. Sounds like there's an interesting story there, at least, that I'll likely never play.

Cutting through hordes of enemies is fun, but the secret to my success in those games is priorities. Like, what can wait, and what am I best off dealing with now?

Edited September 15 by Shadow Mir

[Shaky Jones]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:15 AM, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Cope more, Gilbert will never be a magical girl.

Spoiler

Bet you feel real silly now. Like funny footsteps has become your theme song.

On 9/8/2023 at 5:29 AM, Shadow Mir said:

Hmph. I ain't surprised it floundered. It's a fucking scam. Far as I am concerned, to get the best out of a unit, you need to play to their strengths- and this is the exact opposite. 

Okay I get you, but what about Armor Annete?

Surely this can't go wrong for you.

On 9/13/2023 at 10:07 AM, Shadow Mir said:

Still better than My Castle actively punishing playing more than one map a day. At least this game didn't gate resource accessibility behind real time...

So does this mean you're happy about My Castle dying in a few months?