Etrian Odyssey Mafia - Game Over

[Paperblade]

So we have two players claiming a passive ability that screws with people trying to target them?

[scorri]

Yes we do. Which is part of the reason I'm voting Shinori, cause I'm not sold on both of those roles being town and I'm getting worse feels from his posts than from Cams. True, it's only slightly more than Cam, but I gotta work with what I've got.

[Shinori]

I didn't ever say anything else except that visited me would not be beneficial. Don't assume things.

[Elieson]

About the interacting at night thing, I said you can visit me I could care less, it just will not prove beneficial it WILL be a night wasted.

So we have two players claiming a passive ability that screws with people trying to target them?

Am I the only one reading this and saying "he might not have a screwover role"?

[scorri]

Fine. We have two roles that are claiming visiting them will not be helpful to the town. Better?

[Aere]

I think we should all stop hinting about roles because it's D1.

[Shinori]

I really fill like people are trying to dig about my role and you aren't gonna get anything. Cause I'm not gonna say anything.

[scorri]

Oh hey. Look at that. That's what I said a while ago. Unfortunately, everything we're discussion right now had been said before that. So we're not giving out much new info really. But, I still agree.

[scorri]

Shinori: No, I'm not really trying to dig about your role right now. I'm just saying that I found what you said suspicious seeming, which combined with your other posts made me want to vote for you.

[eclipse]

Helios and Paperblade, reading comprehension! To the former - there is a subtle but important difference between listposting and addressing people. Listposting simply puts out opinions, with little room for discussion. Addressing people invites them to respond. To the latter - read what I said about Cam claiming again. Quote it if you must. FFS, Paperblade, you should know better than to misrepresent people. Rapier, the Paperblade part kinda applies to you, too.

Rapier and Aere, do you have any thoughts on the various wagons/wagons you want to see?

I like a little bit of the following post, and don't like the rest:

##Unvote

I apologize man I misread that completely. The "finger of suspicion" looked like a way to vote and that's all I saw and assumed it was a vote. Big misunderstanding here and I apologize for it. This changes things though. Also thought you might consider it an OMGUS since I thought you were voting me and I was voting you back.

It's because I naturally see the good in people. It's just my playstyle to give people the benefit of the doubt early in the game since we all make mistakes (I just made a big one earlier). I see a lot of mislynches happen because people jump on one little thing that in reality isn't even a great reason to lynch someone (I think of Rapier and Marth getting mislynched earlier when I say this) and I try to avoid that.

You're misinterpreting me here. I didn't mind Eclipse's vote it was just a reaction test but the way Shinori (and I thought Elieson) jumped on it by echoing Eclipse didn't look good to me. I would have responded the same exact way had it been anyone else.

Again we're misinterpreting things. At first it looked like an intown fight between you and Shinori since what you two were arguing about was stupid, but when I saw Shinori jump votes without much reasoning behind it (that was really considered a listpost? I guess I'll keep that in mind from now on...) I thought that looked a tad scummy. It's the beginning of the game and it's natural to change opinions on players as time progresses.

Cam's behavior in this game is still not making me feel good about him, but at the same time he still reminds me of Haze from CPM who was apathetic town after claiming.

Would like to hear more from Aere when he gets the chance.

Gonna go get some food and when I return I'll reread things and think of the best person to vote for.

The things I don't mind are in blue. Everything else I take issue with, in some form or another. Firstly, why should you care if it's an OMGUS? If you're legitimately suspicious of someone, you vote, and deal with the fallout later. Second, mislynches may happen, but the general consensus of the town is to lynch the person who they think is scummiest - if it's a mislynch, town picks up the pieces, moves on to the night phase, maybe reads backwards, and things continue on. I don't like how you're accusing and defending Shinori/Cam in the same breath; let people form their own opinions on them. The way you've been reacting to votes doesn't sit right with me, so my vote stays for now.

[Shinori]

Which other posts specifically because you haven't said what of my posts is actually scummy. It really seems like you are spouting nonsense to just try to set up a misslynch on me for whatever reason. Either that or your thinking is illogical.

[eclipse]

I really fill like people are trying to dig about my role and you aren't gonna get anything. Cause I'm not gonna say anything.

But you hinted at your role for whatever reason early on. Take this guy's advice to heart:

I think we should all stop hinting about roles because it's D1.

[scorri]

Shinori: Or it's based at least partially off of gut because that's all I have to work with right now. I've said that from what I've read, it's felt more like you've been trying to seem like you're contributing and helping out without really giving anything to the town. Please don't attack my play style.. It's how I play the game, and it's worked well for me in the past, so until it stops working well for me, I'm going to continue playing that way.

[Paperblade]

I'm not misrepresenting you. You had 5 posts when I made that post

Of them, I found these 2 fluffy:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34540&view=findpost&p=2093781

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34540&view=findpost&p=2094202

Not fluffy in the same way Helios was, but I still didn't really get anything from them. The first one didn't seem to be expressing any opinion one way or the other and is just kind of telling Core how to play, and the second pretends to matter but doesn't.

[Paperblade]

Also Shinori I am interpreting your role as actions targeting you will fail, which is similar enough to PGO that I would question both of them being town.

[Aere]

I don't like the tone of scorri's posts, tbh. What are your scumreads other than Shinori?

[Shinori]

I am not attacking your play style at all. You said I was scummy because of some of my posts and me trying to contribute but not really. Which posts specifically are giving you that gut feeling that you have.

Also @Eclipse: All I did was say don't visit me. I didn't actually hint at my role at all. Not saying more than that. Take what you will from it, I don't care. I haven't hinted at anything actually.

Back to @Scorri: You have actually changed why I'm scummy a few times, first it was partially gut, then i asked and you said it was cause of gut you weren't sure, then you voted me with reasoning that you aren't backing up, and then you changed it back to saying it's partially gut again. How much gut read is it? And the stuff that isn't gut could you please back up with some sort of evidence.

[Shinori]

Also Shinori I am interpreting your role as actions targeting you will fail, which is similar enough to PGO that I would question both of them being town.

Think of it what you will, but I guarantee you I'm not a PGO or granny variant as I already stated in thread.

[eclipse]

I disagree with eclipse, if Cam has a role that is potentially detrimental to the town and keeping it secret from the mafia isn't very helpful either such as Miller or PGO he *should* claim it. I also think it's kind of odd that she is being fluffy while voting Helios for the same thing.

The first part is what I took issue with. Think what you will of the second part - if the difference is going over your head, oh well.

As for the Rein thing, I'm not a happy player when I see someone typing, and then. . .nothing.

[Paperblade]

Yes I can guess that based on the fact that you've said it a thousand times

my point is that even if you're like a nexus where actions that target you fail I would question it being in a game with a PGO

[eclipse]

Yes I can guess that based on the fact that you've said it a thousand times

my point is that even if you're like a nexus where actions that target you fail I would question it being in a game with a PGO

I'd question why Shinori shared it in the first place.

[Paperblade]

I might have misinterpreted what you said, but scorri seemed pretty upset that Cam claimed anything at all and you said that she "had a point." You continuing by saying it confirms he's not doc/cop makes me think you agree that he shouldn't have claimed *anything at all* mostly because if he actually is a PGO it doesn't matter what else he is because the mafia are never going to kill him anyway

[Aere]

You can target me if you want I could care less. It just won't be beneficial.

Why would you ever feel the need to say this. Core's post after this one pretty much sums it up as Shinori being typical Shinori. Which is why I'm not feeling scum for him.

[eclipse]

I might have misinterpreted what you said, but scorri seemed pretty upset that Cam claimed anything at all and you said that she "had a point." You continuing by saying it confirms he's not doc/cop makes me think you agree that he shouldn't have claimed *anything at all* mostly because if he actually is a PGO it doesn't matter what else he is because the mafia are never going to kill him anyway

Lemme clarify - breadcrumbing is stupid, unless your role is directly harmful to the town (like PGO), in which case, it should be stated plainly. There's a time and place to drop hints about your role, and early D1 isn't it.

[scorri]

So first of all, I consider you saying what I'm doing illogical attacking how I'm playing. Maybe it wasn't intended to come across that way, but that's how I read it. Second of all, it's always been partial gut. I never meant to claim it wasn't partially gut. Honestly, it's probably safe to assume that any of my reads are at least partially gut. That's just the way I play.

Also requesting that no one visit me tonight. And no, I am not a granny/PGO or any sort of variant of that.

(later on) You can target me if you want I could care less. It just won't be beneficial.

Ok, you're right. You never claimed to be PGO or some such thing. What you did do is request to not be visited. Which honestly to me just always seems off. I'm sure there's a reason for it, but with another role claiming to be unhelpful if someone visits, I'm not going to trust both of them.

You then start jumping on Iris for voting Cam to make him care. You call her vote stupid and say that it's pointless. To me, I a) don't agree with this and b) don't see how this is helpful at all. Her vote was made to try and get Cam to try and be a little more present and caring. Which is standard behavior. Yes you can claim that this is so overused that it won't help anything, but the fact of the matter is that Cam at that point had votes on him. If he didn't start to try and talk more or input more, he'd seem more suspicious, thus gaining him more votes. So yes, it may be overused, but that doesn't mean it's ineffective. To me, this seemed like you picked something that you could argue about, making it seem like you were trying to help the town, while not actually helping the town move along.

You then mention more about your role, and then jump back to Iris, and start arguing about the difference between RVS votes and serious votes. Fluff that makes it seem like you're contributing.

You then jump on the Helios wagon. A safe jump because Helios has done the dreaded list post without saying someone who's scum. Clearly this means he's a safe person to put a vote on that doesn't require any new input from you. Echo posts.

And now you're back to my vote on you.

So basically, most of your posts have either been arguing about RVS stuff or voting Helios for echo'd reasons and list posting. All of which is nice safe stuff to do without really contributing much to the forward motion of the town. So yeah. I'm sticking with my vote for now.