Masquerade Mafia - Universal Loss

[C. C.]

I never said Supreme Ruler is scummy to begin with.

Why did you consider pressuring someone you didn't find scummy more important than voting someone you found scummy?

[Shiki Ryougi]

Supreme Ruler, while Orion did vote, it was on RVS. And while Orion did say why he sustained his vote, Jugger has responded here and Orion made another post here and basically forgot about his Jugger vote. My first post might be a bit confusing.

And Uncle Bob's post doesn't amuse me because of his passive - aggressive switch. "You stole other people's opinions Vader!" I told you it has been posted before.

And before I forget, ##Unvote ##Vote:Orion

Orion seems worse at the moment. And can somebody post Votals cause I'm not doing it.

Bold: Worse is the comparative form; this would imply that Supreme Ruler was 'bad'. Now the question would be if you think 'scummy' and 'bad' are the same thing; but never mind that, what made you think SR was bad? (really this is all I can assume from your posts)

And since you've unvoted Supreme Ruler, I assume you've had some new info/reads you've just got/ something just changed. Care to share?

[Cú Chulainn]

Oh wrath dammitall.

The quotes are there. They're right under the empty quote boxes. Formatting just got screwed up. First quote is there, second quote ends after " pretty positive impact on the game." and last one ends after "unusual early on in the game."

Anyways, running off to work, so you don't get more thoughts or a Les Mis song in this post.

[Marisa Kirisame]

@Ultimate Muscle That was a response to this post by Supreme Ruler:

Opinion 3) then quantifies something as "not amusing", which says not a thing about scumminess nor makes an attempt to qualify whether he thinks worse of Bob or Orion. In fact, this matter is escaped completely because he gives preference to a useless vote pressure vote over pursuing what he thinks is scum or whether he thinks there is scum.

@Supreme Ruler did you read the quote above it?

[C. C.]

Allow me to rephrase.

Why did you think it was more important to focus on waiting for me to post than to scumhunt immediately, knowing that I was already receiving flak for terse content? (Note: 'pressure voting' in this instance comes down to prodvoting and 'I'll wait until he posts' voting as far as I'm concerned.)

[Marisa Kirisame]

Did you think I just sit around and wait for your answer? While I did wait for your answer, I had my research on scum.

You had like, a grand total of 1 pressure vote before mine. Well, 2 technically but I was ninja'd by Kumaneko.

[Refakitty³]

Mint Slice- you're voteparking on me now. You haven't made any attempt to update the case since my last two refutals of your arguments. Where were my reactions overdefensive and flailing? IIRC your argument for that was that bringing up Jugger was irrelevant, except I showed that it wasn't. If you don't make an attempt to at least answer back to me in your next posts, I'll probably vote here.

I'm content with keeping my vote on Bob for now because he still hasn't really done anything other than make a lazy vote for someone sheeping onto a wagon. Of interest is that he called out the early Orion wagon BEFORE Jugger even voted, so out of the first three votes (SR, me, Javert), the ones he initially found bad, he attacked none and actually defended one. And his sudden threat in the last line was sort of random.

I think Kumaneko is worse than Darth on the SR wagon. As SR pointed out, his vote is pretty lazy and doesn't even read the whole thread before jumping on something easy. And part of his case there is that the majority of SR's posts are jokes, which is dumb, since the majority of SR's posts at that point were in pregame or RVS. Then in his second post, he unvotes just because the wagon was fast, which I don't like at all, and then his vote for Javert is based solely on timing of that vote with no actual analysis of Javert's posts, and again, doesn't even read his posts properly before voting there.

That being said, I don't really like Darth either. Darth, if the purpose of pressure-voting SR was to get content from him, which you need to formulate reads, why SR in particular? Why not Kumaneko or England?

[Olivier]

The onset of text walls is starting to be a burden on my RAM. but I'll at least try to keep up with queries on me.

I can't tell if this is "I skimmed/didn't read the other posts on the Orion wagon" or "I didn't sheep those guys, this was my own decision" or "Other people's votes shouldn't matter to townies so I ignored that stuff on purpose" or something else entirely. Clarify that and I'll respond to this.

A little of column B, a little of column C. This looks like a loaded question, though, because all of those answers make me look bad. I came in late, but that doesn't mean you weren't still a good choice for a vote for similar reasoning to others, in my opinion.

[C. C.]

Why are there no results of that research? You provide no new reasoning, only explaining yourself from earlier and then deciding Orion "seems worse".

I had a wall here but I can be much terser:

You have an original point about Orion: That he votes Jugger and then does not address it further. You vote him, which indicates you think he's scummy.

Why did you prioritise pressuring me for content over pressuring Orion for content, considering the latter is scummy to you? Pressuring someone you don't suspect as scum and then making no conclusions from (let's be generous) the results of your pressure comes off as half-hearted and half-assed, and not genuine.

A genuine Townie would pressure to get a read, and then post about that read: "I pressured Supreme, he posted, he's a dick but probably not scum" would have been better than what you did.

[Olivier]

So I seem to hear my name come up a lot here. Could you remind us what your actual stance on me is, since it seems relevant.

Still want Chanserv to answer this.

[C. C.]

New question: Darth, do you genuinely believe that if you had not voted me, I would not post? :-)

[Refakitty³]

Oh, I thought that was a question towards Mint Slice. I don't think you're mafia atm, because them jumping onto a wagon after it's been called as overly fast and sheepy seems dumb for me. I also don't really see a problem in any of your other posts.

Also, Mint Slice, something I forgot to ask earlier. You implied that you agreed that Jugger wasn't scummy. But if you don't agree with my reasons for it, what are your reasons for it? You've left me to gather your stance from how you reacted to the opposite stance, except that doesn't tell me the reasons behind your stance.

SR brings up a good point. If you pressure voted SR to get more content from him, why didn't you then say anything about SR after he did produce content? The fact that you chose to unvote him after he posted with no regards to what he actually said implies your vote there was just "post more", in which case ignoring the other things that you point out in that same post to lay down a vote simply for low content (less than 10 hours out of RVS) looks pretty bad.

[Marisa Kirisame]

@ChanServ My role doesn't say I can vote for 3 people at once. I had to start somewhere.

@Supreme Ruler

Question 1: While I did my research, the results are still unsatisfying. If I posted about it, I would've been more hated than now.

Question 2: I never liked you, but that isn't a lynchworthy argument is it? I don't like posting town/null reads but if you insist.

Question 3: No, but some pressure vote might convince you to stop posting with {quote + 1 liner}

[Refakitty³]

I don't like those responses at all. Why are you basing what you post on whether other people will like it or not? I don't see how your second response even answers the question, and I really don't understand why people are so hung up about one-liners when they were like the first serious posts of the game.

[Ochako Uraraka]

I'm bad at skimming. I like mafia, but more than 6 pages a day is killing me.

hi there darth rapier

content in the works

[Olivier]

Completed analysis on these texts walls, output granted on the following opinions, proceeding to list content:

Supreme 121
"I think the vote(s) on me are due to laziness and easy voteparks."

I'm actually inclined to agree with this, Jugger does not really like the SR wagon at all. IIRC I commented earlier (post #85) that he needed more content, but I didn't think he was scummy for the lack of such.

Darth Vader #127 really bothers me for some reason, especially the vote. Jugger can't put my finger on why, but I think it's because his reasoning seems really lacking.

England's #128 is really lacking in content, which adds to his bad post before about his SupremeRuler suspicion (if you could park suspicion, Jugger feels like England would be doing it right now). It just looks like regurgitated opinons.

Resolute #130 ends up having all the same opinons Jugger has, so I guess he's actually pretty cool in my book.

Darth Vader #148 looks contradictory to his other posts, although I'd need to scroll back to confirm this. His vote was for pressure, and he didn't find SR scummy, so why the vote when he already listed suspicions of actually scummy people?

CONCLUSION: I have a lot of people I can suspect, actually. Darth, England, Kuroneko, Bob. Fluttershy and f5 haven't stuck out to me a lot, which I think is bad. I have a few town reads as well.

I'm still inclined to hang onto my current vote, really. Bob may not have much (any) recent content, but I still think he's pretty scummy for his wait-and-see followed by his jump at "weak" voters against Orion (which happens to include me, but that's not really a factor). Two of those programs just have really shitty. short posts (England and Kuroneko respectively). Darth seems like a good choice to switch, because his posts are digging a hole he's having trouble climbing out of, in terms of scum factor, but I don't want to just yet. Hanging votes onto players slow to come back has gotten me good results before, so I don't see a reason to jump off yet.

[Ochako Uraraka]

Orion kind of misreps Mint here, since he seems to be implying that his ChanServ vote was out of the blue, when he spent his last few posts talking about/replying to ChanServ. Also here he seems to talk as if he expected me to coast on my miller claim. I'm not that lame!

This post by Darth is pretty bad since he pretty much admits that he isn't scumhunting, which is what Orion (who he's been voting for) has kind of been doing, which is a pretty big double standard. Funny thing is (from a quick glance at his ISO) a lot of the time he just seems to be linking to other stuff for people to respond to and just recycling old content. The whole tone of this post comes across as really condescending and I don't think I like that. He brags that he's done his research, but then here he pretty much discredits it, and comes across as really self-conscious. He also talks about not disliking him, but doesn't seem to approve of his quote+one liner post style when he's also made some sizable posts, which doesn't sit well with me.

Still dislike Bob, but Darth Rapier is scummier to me right now.

[Estelle]

Mint Slice- you're voteparking on me now.

and exactly how do you define votepark in this instance? big woop, i haven't updated my reads intensely as of yet and i'm so bloody tired to the point where I should be sleeping but I'm not. If i'm right about your player (and even then, the point stands), i'm pretty sure you don't jump to this this early. even if i'm wrong, it's been what, 12 hours? whoop de do. you're making a mountain out of a molehill and i think you're trying to find reasons to keep making me look worse and as such, a mislynch.

Where were my reactions overdefensive and flailing?

you literally just walked into it above. gj.

IIRC your argument for that was that bringing up Jugger was irrelevant, except I showed that it wasn't.

uh, no? pretty sure you didn't even address my clarified statement and as such you haven't responded. the jugger point was irrelevant to the point at hand and you bringing it up looked overdefensive.

If you don't make an attempt to at least answer back to me in your next posts, I'll probably vote here.

oh no, a thinly veiled vote threat. scummy as fuck because of the below.

if there's stuff you want me to answer, quote them and i'll get to it when i wake up.

I'm content with keeping my vote on Bob for now

so why bob over me, hmm? you think i'm scummy, so exactly why is it what bob has done is worse than what i've done?

Also, Mint Slice, something I forgot to ask earlier. You implied that you agreed that Jugger wasn't scummy.

you literally missed the entire fucking point of when i stated about "asking both sides of the argument" HEY GUESS WHAT I DON'T LEAN EITHER WAY RIGHT NOW STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH

[Estelle]

also ChanServ your player is so obvious like England's, even to the point where i'm pretty sure you're them and not someone roleplaying them

[Estelle]

also like okay why the heck would you specifically call me out on "voteparking" when 1) it's only been 12 hours, if that and 2) apparently i didn't update my case which is actually the case because it's moved to attacking you for being completely overdefensive

gj dude you're doing a good job convincing me that you're scum

[Estelle]

now i sleep before i fail sentences more

[Refakitty³]

Because you're making so much of an effort to hide who you are, right?

And the length of time you sit on the vote doesn't determine whether or not it's a votepark. What determines that it's a votepark is that I responded back to your arguments, and you ignored my responses until just now, despite the fact that you made several posts after that, which weren't really pushing anyone else either. So yeah, it was a votepark. So no, I'm not misrepping you or acting overdefensive. As for it being a "thinly veiled threat", seriously? I pointed out something scummy you were doing (not responding back to my rebuttals and just sitting on the vote anyways), and said I'd vote you if you didn't fix it. You're digging for stuff now, there was nothing scummy about that.

Your case on me for being "overdefensive" is dumb because you're just deciding arbitrarily what's overdefensive. I have addressed your clarified point, adn I explained how the Jugger thing was relevant there too, so no, it wasn't being overdefensive either. And yeah, you didn't update your case about me being overdefensive either, because I answered that too. I'll repeat myself. Your clarified point was that it was hypocritical for me to attack the SR wagon for being sheepy and not attack the Orion wagon for it. Therefore, the Jugger point is RELEVANT, since it's part of why the Orion wagon was sheepy but not scummy, while the SR wagon was sheepy AND scummy.

As for why I'm voting Bob over you, good job cutting out the paragraph explaining why I'm still voting Bob that followed RIGHT AFTER THAT SENTENCE YOU QUOTED.

And okay, you don't have a specific stance on Jugger. Make that clear, instead of leaving me to interpret it from you attacking both sides of the argument. That wasn't a misrepresentation, that was a MISINTERPRETATION, because it took you like three posts to just come out and clearly say "I'm not leaning any way on Jugger".

If you say I'm overreacting now, I will kill you, because you refusing to read half of what I say is what's making me get angry. Almost everything in this post is recycled from past posts of mine, and it pisses me off when I'm getting voted because people aren't reading my posts properly.

[Refakitty³]

Mint Slice's vote for me is terrible but he is unfortunately probably town because he's being too stubborn in continuing it despite the fact that at least one person other than me has attacked him for it, and despite the fact that nobody has yet agreed with him about me. Reads more like wrong townie than scum.

[Refakitty³]

Orion, I'm not sure you understand the point of you putting in way more effort in crumbing that it was a reaction test than actually doing anything with it. You were aware that just claiming it would be a reaction test afterwards would be scummy, so you went to some lengths to crumb that it was from before. Okay, there is both town and scum motive for that. Then you said simply that the scummiest vote on the wagon was the last one, which shows effort, but very little in comparison to the effort you put into making the reaction test look not scummy. So it looks more like you just did the test for towncred, with the crumb to back yourself up, rather than to actually analyze the results.

In any case, Orion, you're still voting Jugger and haven't updated that even though he's made a decent amount of posts since then. What are your thoughts about him, or anyone else in the game? For someone who was concerned with moving the game forward, you don't seem to be doing much now that it has.

[Olivier]

Chanserv reminded Jugger to add Orion to the Scummy list, for having no decent content since he revealed the reaction test gambit.