Masquerade Mafia - Universal Loss

[Olivier]

I've got nothing else to add on either player, not much else to say on the validity of Vanilla Scum Claims without more WIFOM.

[Refakitty³]

And yes, "just" is an overexaggeration, but I stand resolute that a vanilla claim is a townier tell than anything Darth has done.

[Olivier]

Are we seriously going to lynch Orion just because Darth hasn't claimed? That's a terrible reason.

There's an entire case on him from throughout the day. Plenty of reason.

[Ochako Uraraka]

Orion has a good chance of flipping scum, so does Darth but Darth has the added risk of being cop/doc/whatever else and I don't want to gamble on that.

##Unvote

##Vote: Orion

[Paperblade]

HAMMER SHUT UP

[Paperblade]

After hours of intense debate, you finally narrow down your targets between a star and Luke's dad. Unsure of who is more likely to be evil, at the end of the day, it seemed as though only the actions of Ultimate Muscle might have ultimately mattered.

However, Resolute stayed true to his name, and put Orion up to the gallows.

Orion has been lynched!

Dear Orion,

You are V. You are the titular masked antihero of the comic book V for Vendetta, a former prisoner- turned vigilante against the fascist Norsefire government. You describe yourself as not a person, but an idea.

You have no special abilities.

You are allied with the Ballroom Bunch. You win if all threats are eliminated.

It is now Night 1. Night 1 ends in 24 hours on July 4 at 10PM EST.

[Paperblade]

Also it just occurred to me that the rules are unclear, but you don't need a hammer to lynch.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Paperblade

[Paperblade]

also no talking in thread, remind me to have Snike add that to the rules

I knew I was forgetting something @_@

[Paperblade]

Deadline in an hour, still missing actions

[Paperblade]

Deadline etc.

[Paperblade]

You were shocked this morning to find the body of Darth Vader strewn across the streets. It seems that not even his mastery of the Force was enough to save his life.

Darth Vader has been slain. He was:

Dear Darth Vader,

You are Zelgius. You are a general of the Begnion army from the Fire Emblem series. However, you are also a Branded, making you something of an outcast since you cannot allow anyone to know. You also serve under Sephiran as the Black Knight to further his goal of a worldwide war.

At night, you may respond to your role PM with "##Killing USER's father." You will have a duel to the death with USER's father before his eyes, and win. This will enrage USER so much that he will target you with his night action instead of his original target.

You are allied with the Ballroom Bunch. You win if all threats are eliminated.

However, there was not one, but two corpses. You found SupremeRuler's head in the punch bowl, far away from the rest of his body.

SupremeRuler has been slain. He was:

Dear SupremeRuler,

You are Faris. You are a pirate from Final Fantasy V. You are actually a girl, but don't want people knowing that. You're also Lenna's sister, making you a princess, but that isn't the life for you.

You have a few job abilities, but can only use each one once:

At night, you may respond to your role PM with "##Shell USER." You will cast Shell on USER, increasing his magic resistance, causing all special abilities targeting him to fail. Kills, however, are physical damage, and thus will not be effected by this.

At night, you may respond to your role PM with "##Quicken USER." You will cast Quicken on USER, causing him to move so quickly that the next night, he will be able to use any non-killing actions twice.

At night, you may respond to your role PM with "##Oath USER." You will cast Oath on USER, calling forth his dead soul to speak with. From this talk, you will learn every action that targeted USER until he died, but not who used it.

You are allied with the Ballroom Bunch. You win if all threats are eliminated.

It is now Day 2. Day 2 ends in 72 hours at 10PM EST, July 7.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Looks like I died. Well that sucks. Good luck with today's scumhunting!

[Refakitty³]

Hmm, guessing Darth got vigged.

Anyways, I think I'm going to go with ##Vote: Fluttershy.

I don't really like his reason for finding Bob scummy, now that I go over it again. Yesterday I just checked to see if it was sheepy or not. It's not sheepy, but now that I think about it, I don't really see how a shift of tone is scummy. Nor do I think emotion is a scumtell, yet he talks a lot about that, and also the emotion in the exchanges between MintSlice and myself, and comes out saying that MintSlice is scummier for having more emotion in his posts.

When he's attacking MintSlice, rather than attacking the content of MintSlice's attacks against me, he attacks the way in which MintSlice attacks me, by saying stuff about how he doesn't like Mint's tone, and that complaining about a misrep and saying stuff like "flail harder" is scummy. Now, I argued against Mint here because I felt that what he was saying was wrong. But rather than going for that, Fluttershy's complaint is just complaining about a misrep in the first place, and talking about flailing. There's no attempt to analyze whether or not I did actually misrep Mint, or whether I am flailing, since both, if they were actually occurring, would be valid things to find me scummy for. Basically, I find it a very bad argument against Mint.

His attempt to explain why emotion is scummy doesn't make sense either. Okay, Side 2's emotion sparks emotion in Side 1 as well, who was previously not emotional. But why is emotion scummy in the first place? We might have been emotional, but I don't think there was a point where we weren't being logical (or at least, what we felt was logical).

Then, he states that he doesn't like Bob's vote, since Kumaneko has no posts and it's therefore easy. However, in his last post, he suddenly says that he likes Bob's stance on Kumaneko. For reference, Bob's stance was that Kumaneko was getting off easy despite everyone finding him scummy. Flutter says he'd rather not lynch Kumaneko due to him not having many interactions, but that he still wouldn't mind lynching him. Why the sudden change in opinion about the validity of a Kumaneko vote?

Also, he says again that people should stop attacking others for misrepping. Again, what is scummy about saying someone misrepped someone else? Admittedly, in this case, Orion was falsely accusing you of a misrep, and you did state why, which is different from before with Mint, but it still feels like you're suggesting that accusing someone of misrepping is scummy, not just falsely accusing someone.

Javert, I see you reading the thread. You haven't posted in quite a while.

Also I don't really like England's Orion interactions. His sudden change in opinion just feels sort of weird, and I don't really think that his original reason for defending Orion was really touching on why Orion was even being voted. It also felt like he was just parking Kumaneko for a while. I think the Flutter case has more to it though.

[Olivier]

Egh, it's too late for me to post anything really coherent, but it appears all my scumreads from yesterday are all dead, aside from Bob. So I guess I'll stick my vote back on him since my opinion never really changed.

##Terminate Program: Uncle Bob

Since Vader flipped town this morning, Chanserv's actions during deadline come off as town to me now, although I never really thought he was too scummy in the first place. Maybe I'm wrong, though. It's late.

Note to self: insert more Jugger quotes into posts later.

[Refakitty³]

Would you think I was scummy if Darth had flipped scum? For that matter, why does me arguing for the lynch of Darth, a townie, make me more likely to be town? If anything, I'd think it would be the other way around.

[Olivier]

If Darth flipped scum? Thinking a bit more coherently, I'd probably think you were scum if Orion flipped scum.

The whole insisting over the Darth lynch over the Orion lynch when they're both town seems like an inherently town action. I imagine scum would just sit back and try to make sure at least one of them was offed.

[Olivier]

5 scumreads yesterday and now I'm down to one...

Hrmmmm, it's going to be a pain in the ass analyzing the wagons as well...

[Cú Chulainn]

Rereading now, expect post in ~10 minutes or so

[Cú Chulainn]

There was a time when scum was kind

When their kills were nice

And their words incriminating.

There was a time when town wasn't blind

And the hunt was a song

And the song was exciting.

There was a time ... then it all went wrong

Ok. Couple things.

First off, does someone want to claim a vig shot on either of the two deaths? If not, we're going to have to start operating under the assumption that we have a harmful third, which is useful to know. Since we have a day vig, I'm more inclined to think harmful third or something similar, but just interested.

Hmm, was suspecting Muscle because of his complete misrep of me, but day vig is... convincing me to not vote him.

Have random gut suspicion of ChanServ/MintSlice scum buddies being a thing, but it has literally no basis in facts, it's just a gut scum read.

##Vote:Uncle Bob for now due to a couple things. One, his hesitancy to vote but two and more importantly, this:

I'm not hesitant to get a major reason to vote I'm hesitant to vote without good reason because I don't like mislynching and I felt that lynching one of those three for simply voting Orion would lead to a mislynch. I.E. I thought they were townies making the wrong decision so I decided to try and stray them off the wrong path.

followed by

Just to clarify I was not neutral on Orion/Darth. I found them both slightly scummy (Hence the "I'd be happy to lynch them") but I simply found Kumaneko's posts worse, even if there's only 2 I find them scummier than what Darth/Orion have been saying and I wasn't sure if he was being inactive or just lurking. He's promised a content post after a reread so I guess I'll let him off the hook for now. Emphasis on "for now". ##Unvote

followed by

Rereading Orion has left me thinking that perhaps some of the criticism is unfair. Aside from the criticism of his Jugger vote which I obviously disagree with because I agree with the logic behind that vote we have people like fluttershy saying that he's too focused on responding to criticisms of himself when I would think it'd be scummier if he simply handwaved those criticisms to go on scumhunting. If he's finding it hard to keep track of the thread then at the very least he's responding to people's criticisms unlike Kuma. Also f5 complained that he put a lot of effort into his first two posts but I'm not convinced that that's really that scummy, someone mentioned that it's like he's being self-conscious and that's mafia are but that's WIFOM. That being said while he may be finding it hard to scumhunt with all that is going on I would still like to see opinions on other people in the thread including me, CS, Kuma and England too when he's up for it. If he does that then I'd be mostly happy with him.

So first it seems like he's calling Orion townie with no reasons for that (saying that the people jumping on Orion were probably townies making a mistake implies that it was a mistake to vote Orion, aka Orion was town) then he says that he found Orion was scummy, then he says that Orion is townie and the people accusing him are wrong. All within one post. Previously he had said he wasn't sure about Orion but that he found it more likely that Orion was just bad at mafia as opposed to being scum.

[Refakitty³]

I doubt that the mafia or a SK would have killed Darth, someone who so many people thought was mafia. Probably a vig, and no way should they be claiming either. Besides, SR makes sense for a mafia kill.

I don't disagree with what you said about Bob, but there's a whole hell of a lot you haven't commented on, so I'd like to see more. Also, what was the point of even mentioning the idea of me and Mint as being scumbuddies if you were going to dismiss it immediately afterwards?

[Cú Chulainn]

I'm aware there's a lot I haven't commented on. I mentioned the important things sticking in my mind right now and will hopefully go back at some point and get more stuff. I mention the thing with you and Mint because it's important. It's one of the few reads I have right now. That being said, it's purely gut so I have nothing to base it on and as such won't be pursuing it at this juncture. There's a difference there between dismissing it completely and being honest about what it's based on and putting it aside for now.

[Sham]

ChanServ's opener today is weird since it's almost a 180 from his Bob suspicions on D1. Is Bob still scummy? What do you feel about the players voting the people who actually flipped town?

Incredibly unimpressed with Javert. According to a quick look through his ISO, he never talked about any player other than Orion and disappeared completely at the end of the day. If England looks guilty for posting words just for the sake of having content (which he does) then Javert is a convict with three seperate first degree murders under his belt. And passive-aggressively mentioning a thoughts quicktopic to sound townie only to never do anything about the aforementioned bad jumps is still terrible. I've read his opener today but it doesn't make up for only have one opinion for all of D1, since it leaves him with... only one strong opinion, again. Seriously man.

So about the Kumaneko flip. Between England and Bob, I think that having an early vote down on Kumaneko then keeping it around without really expanding it is closer to taking the easy route like Jugger described than being the second vote and making more of an effort to push people toward the wagon. Also, England's explanation of only picking out SupremeRuler initially here doesn't fully satisfy me. I get why he'd find SupremeRuler the worst of the Orion voters, but if being quick to "label Orion as scum" over his Resolute vote was suspect like England said, why ignore the others entirely? England never did elaborate on how calling out ChanServ made SupremeRuler scummy, either, so his first serious post is still pretty nonsensical.

Before I consider chasing after either Kumaneko voter, though, I want everyone to take a look at this:

[in reply to England's first content post]

Good vote, bad post.

Darth is easy to sheep, but Kuroneko has only two content posts and both of them are short and awful. I could make a two-line case and slap a vote down and it'd be good enough reason to vote him. It's a zero-effort vote. The rest of your content is "eh this guy is kind of scummy I guess"

Maybe I should really clarify on the Kuroneko wagon. In my opinion the votes on him are incredibly easy to make, and since he has no new content, it's easy for said players to coast on that vote because the original posts are so bad you don't have to justify getting off them.

What the actual hypocritical fuck. Given that the crux of Jugger's reason for voting Bob late in the day was Bob's weak scumhunting, this disconnect is incredibly damning. Aside from Kumaneko's lack of activity, there was no difference in the reasons for voting Kumaneko between any of those posts. It's as if Jugger was just bullshitting reasons to keep his vote down on Bob because he had a secure place on a wagon.

##Vote: Jugger

Also, this isn't as damning, but it's awkward that Orion is Jugger's pick for scum over Vader but he never actually looks into Vader as a candidate that much beyond a one-off reference to him. The lack of effort isn't really convincing.

Finally, it bugs me that Mint Slice stopped posting or pushing his ChanServ case after people wrote him off as town for his tunnel vision. Looks too coasty for my tastes and I'll be watching him closely today.

[Estelle]

i've been kinda busy and kinda not really into mafia right now, serves me right for joining a game right now. i'll try and get something up at some point

[Refakitty³]

I still find Bob suspicious, just didn't really have much to say about him that I hadn't already, while I had a new Fluttershy case I made just before the night ended that I wanted to get out. Javert made a good point about Bob's flip-flopping on Orion. The last post on Orion where he suddenly defends him after saying he wouldn't mind his lynch is pretty bad, especially as it was timed around when the Orion wagon started looking like it might be the lynch. He even kind of defended Darth in his blurb about how people should focus more on Kumaneko over the two of them.

fffff, what do you think about what I said about Fluttershy?

I don't really understand what you're trying to say about Jugger. Where is the hypocrisy? I might not be reading it correctly.

[Sham]

I vaguely agree but want to see how she responds before I consider sheeping.

Jugger goes from calling Kumaneko a "good vote" to an "easy vote" without Kumaneko doing anything in between. His opinion gets twisted to suit the point he's trying to make at the time and really doesn't get more concrete than this.