Semi-Precious Mafia - Mafia wins!

[Bard]

... And the forum ate part of my post for some reason.

The part below the quote about me, I point out that Wayward was applying a double standard by saying Polydeuces trying to draw a reaction isn't bad, but mine is slightly fishy. It's a bit silly considering mine isn't at all meant to provoke anything, I was just RVS voting.

The Shin vote is... arbitrary, considering the suspicion rating on Shin is accompanied by a blurb of reporting and then attributing explanations to the actions, and WIFOM about the explanations attributed. However, the normal thing to do is ask for explanations, and Wayward retracts his vote pointlessly, without one way or the other getting an explanation from Shin. There's no real solid line in here, just someone trying really hard at being Town but applying double standards and odd reasonings for an arbitrary measuring.

Speaking of people trying hard to look Town, scorri also fits that bill. SB is completely right in that she's being too defensive over something no one really cares about, and rather than comment on anything scorri's only been concerned with the status of their online time. "What would putting a vote down do?" Well, it'd contribute to lynching someone, and can be used as a guiding principle for someone's priorities. At this stage we have TryhardWayward. Self-Voter Shin and Nearly Wagoned Him Ha Ha Bear! That's enough to at least make some kind of comment.

##Unvote

##Vote: scorri

Speaking of Bear, why did you put Shin to L-1?

[MRDRHAWK]

Wayward's either the most town scum I've ever seen, or a ridiculous tryhard. Right now, I'm willing to bet the latter, but I'm not chancing it on D1.

##Unvote

##Lynch: Wayward

[charlie_]

Polydeuces what the hell are you voting someone for looking townie for?

Bard's assessment of Wayward's post is probably fair, although I disagree that it's scummy.

[charlie_]

that moment when bbm has the least posts in the game

[Shin]

Considering I voted myself for poops and giggles, I find it rather interesting that I got so close to the lynch. DA BEAR and SB especially come to mind, but SB's sudden swap makes me feel he wasn't actually going to commit.

Poly, Wayward's either super-town or super-scum? I'm afraid that's the vaguest read ever, how about you elaborate on that for us? It's fine and all to have a general read on someone, but two polar opposites don't really make sense.

[charlie_]

What do you mean by interesting Shin? You've kind of explained me, but what's your read on DA BEAR?

[Shin]

DA BEAR seemed ultra opportunistic, as if he were hoping someone else would put the last vote through. He's made two tiny posts since, I was hoping he'd do something meaningful or try to justify it instead but I guess I can't have everything!

[Bard]

Bard's assessment of Wayward's post is probably fair, although I disagree that it's scummy.

It's scummy, but by itself far from worth lynching him over.

Polydeuces, I don't know what to say that hasn't already been said. Saying Wayward is probably Town but then voting him anyway is refuge in audacity and scummy.

[MRDRHAWK]

He could be doing all that to mask being scum. I've seen a couple of people be ultra-aggressive in scum-hunts that turn out to be scum themselves, so it's not out of the question.

That said, he could just be playing ultra-aggressive because he doesn't know anything to the contrary that would have him show town in order to avoid a mislynch on himself. I'm not sure, but then again I'm not picking up any major scumreads yet. Scorri's kinda scummy, but not enough to make me jump on the idea lynching him.

[BBM]

that moment when bbm has the least posts in the game

NO

I'm inclined to think Polydeuces is town right now just because I don't feel that he's the type of person to take refuge in audacity, and it seems more to me that he just isn't thinking things through logically (which is bad but not scummy in and of itself). Polydeuces, if scum scumhunt aggressively because it looks townie, then doesn't that mean that townies do it too? Is there something that you think WW is doing that is something only scum would do?

I agree with the Scorri wagon so my vote will stay where it is for now, but Bard, why did you vote Scorri over Wayward? You spoke a lot more about Wayward than you did about Scorri, and then said that while you didn't like WW's listpost, it wasn't worth lynching him over. So what is so much worse about what Scorri did that is worth lynching her over if WW isn't?

[Refa]

Wayward's either the most town scum I've ever seen, or a ridiculous tryhard. Right now, I'm willing to bet the latter, but I'm not chancing it on D1.

##Unvote

##Lynch: Wayward

what

He could be doing all that to mask being scum. I've seen a couple of people be ultra-aggressive in scum-hunts that turn out to be scum themselves, so it's not out of the question.

How does posting a list of reads qualify as ultra aggressive?

Scorri's kinda scummy, but not enough to make me jump on the idea lynching him.

Explain.

I'm inclined to think Polydeuces is town right now just because I don't feel that he's the type of person to take refuge in audacity,

I thought you were talking about the music program for like 10 minutes and I was like WTF BBM.

I don't get how you can have a meta read on him when he's only been around for one other game.

[MRDRHAWK]

I'm inclined to think Polydeuces is town right now just because I don't feel that he's the type of person to take refuge in audacity, and it seems more to me that he just isn't thinking things through logically (which is bad but not scummy in and of itself). Polydeuces, if scum scumhunt aggressively because it looks townie, then doesn't that mean that townies do it too? Is there something that you think WW is doing that is something only scum would do?

A lot of his reads seem half-baked. SB & Shin were clearly joke-voting earlier, and yet he still claims that he got a scumread off them.

Meanwhile, he used the good ol' inactivity card to try and get a scumread on Bard, which makes me think he's just grabbing at anything he can get to try and direct people onto everyone else and off of looking into him. I feel like that's a pretty scummy tactic, though it could just be newbie town antics.

Either way, I'm not too convinced of anyone being terribly scummy, but I feel like his RVS reads seemed a bit off in terms of reasoning to me.

[MRDRHAWK]

How does posting a list of reads qualify as ultra aggressive?

Explain.

It's not even a full day through the game, and he's already throwing up reads on everybody? Seems hella suspicious, and his reasoning wasn't very solid IMO.

As for Scorri... well, Scorri's reactions seemed a bit defensive after the initial wagon on him/her, so it makes me start to think that something's up. Of course, I wasn't very different in my initial mafia on here, so maybe I'm just reading too much into Scorri's behaviour right now.

[BBM]

I don't get how you can have a meta read on him when he's only been around for one other game.

cuz I'm amazing

Poly's new reasoning is a lot better, although I don't particularly agree with it.

[Refa]

I think if he wanted to get attention off of him, posting a huge list of reads based on the freakin' RVS phase would NOT be the way to go. In addition to that, he's coming across as rather self conscious to me; if he was scum, I'd expect him to run things through with his scumbuddies in the QT before posting them, which means that he wouldn't have that massive RVS post to begin with.

I'm not liking either of the wagons right now. scorri is over-defensive, but it seems like people are harping way too much on this when it is a minor scumread at best. As for Wayward, people are voting for him for what I believe to be newbie mistakes. And they're rather lazy votes too, seeing as noone has actually addressed the claim that they're newbie mistakes and qualifies their vote with "well it could be a newbie mistake but man FAULTY READS BASED ON FAULTY VOTES IN RVS MUST BE SCUM". Now, I'm not saying I have a town read on either; but I don't think either of the cases on them are nearly strong enough to be lynching them over (and I will concede that some of the votes could be pressure votes to get more information).

[BBM]

A vote doesn't need to mean that you want that person to get lynched that moment- it's just an indication of where your thoughts are and how you prioritize things. Like if Bard had stuck just with saying that he found both Scorri and WW scummy and not voted either, I wouldn't have gotten the insight that he finds Scorri worse than WW for what seem to me to be somewhat arbitrary reasons considering his own logic.

And you're not voting anyone. Where are your thoughts?

[charlie_]

Refa, can you stop picking at stuff and give reads? The only one you've given all game is a null on scorri iirc.

Polydeuces' reasoning doesn't sit too well with me, since I'm 90% sure Wayward doesn't understand RVS and so a lot of his arguments fall apart. He also has scumreads but isn't willing to vote anyone is also not great.

kirsche was lurking without posting a lot earlier, he should come back and give his thoughts.

TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA REFA: Okay, you don't like either of the wagons. We still don't know who you think is scum, and he's kind of overreacting based on the "it's not enough to lynch them for" point, when it's still early day 1.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

[Bard]

I agree with the Scorri wagon so my vote will stay where it is for now, but Bard, why did you vote Scorri over Wayward? You spoke a lot more about Wayward than you did about Scorri, and then said that while you didn't like WW's listpost, it wasn't worth lynching him over. So what is so much worse about what Scorri did that is worth lynching her over if WW isn't?

Wayward said this was his first game in the sign-up. I'm not inclined to actually push that hard on newbies.

Moreover, while the reportery and flimsy reasoning is scummy of itself and I would normally have voted there, scorri's been defensive about their time commitment and lack of vote even after being called out on it, which displays a bigger concern with one's own appearance than active scumhunting at the moment. I'm hoping the vote will also convince scorri to look beyond their own person and towards the rest of the living, but if no such result is produced I'm fairly fine with lynching scorri.

I theorise that scum, knowing who scum are, have a harder time attributing actions to scumminess because they lack the healthy suspicion and paranoia Townies possess. Since scorri so far hasn't seen anything they've wanted to comment on, I was thinking it might be this.

[Bard]

(and I will concede that some of the votes could be pressure votes to get more information).

I'm going to help you out here: In 95 out of 100, I'm fairly confident no one puts a vote with intent to lynch within the first 36 hours of the game. Nearly all votes are meant to extract information or make clear where your position lies. Votes with intent to lynch are made often after that time period, and during games they will often fall within the last 36 hours of a given day anyway, since people tend to want to use all the time available to make up their minds and get as much information on the table as is possible.

"well it could be a newbie mistake but man FAULTY READS BASED ON FAULTY VOTES IN RVS MUST BE SCUM"

I think you're unfairly disjointing the reasons people have here.

In the first place calling Wayward a wagon is silly and a stretch: One serious vote does not a wagon make. My reasons for suspicion are arbitrariness of the suspicions meter based on values that change during the course of the post, whereas I understand what's-their-face's vote to be due to paranoia and attacking the action rather than the way it is done. That's entirely different from saying they are guaranteed scum or something.

Why do you try to paint the Wayward case into something it is not?

[Bard]

I am incorrect, Polydeuces's vote is more articulated. My apologies. I must point out that this post has reasoning that doesn't jive with reality. Throwing suspicion on me to get some off of him would be a valid concern if anyone was looking at Waywards, and as was pointed out, ducking attention by posting a huge wall isn't exactly sound.

Either way, I'm not too convinced of anyone being terribly scummy, but I feel like his RVS reads seemed a bit off in terms of reasoning to me.

Can you clarify what exactly "seemed a bit off in terms of reasoning" about his RVS reads?

[BBM]

Not many people just stop being defensive once they've been accused of it, even townies. And what reasoning does Scorri have for it to be flimsy? She's not pushing anyone.

[Refa]

And you're not voting anyone. Where are your thoughts?

I still have my RVS vote, you jerk

Reading Bard as town. All of his actions so far have been logically consistent, and although I don't agree with his scorri vote, his argument makes sense and not getting any scumvibes form him.

As I believe I've made clear, scorri and Wayward are a big bag of null for me atm. Nothing much more to say there.

SB tunneling in on scorri and then complaining about my lack of reads is bad. Getting a slight scum read from him.

Wallcrab's short dismissal of Wayward's reads strikes me as rather lazy. Not enough to get a scum read on atm, but it strikes me as suspicious.

Polydeuces arguments are rather weak, at one point he suggested that Wayward was looking too townie. Like, wtf mate? In addition, he makes several attempts to discredit Wayward's argument such as claiming that he pulled the inactivity card (scum has much more to gain from inactivity, even though that in of itself isn't a valid scum tell), throwing up reads on people (scum would want to avoid giving away too many reads so early on, because associative reads later on WILL bite them in the back if they're not careful), and voting on joke votes (how is this scummy behavior seriously).

##Unvote

##Vote: Polydeuces

Everyone else I don't even know.

[Da Bear]

Shin wants me to explain my vote.

I was planning on unvoting after 5~ minutes but sb did it first.

Also expect nothing from me for 24+ hours because I just got home from an hour and a half of basketball followed by an hour and a half of football and hanging out with some friends after school tomorrow.

[BBM]

I've never met anyone who plays both basketball and football. scum excuse y/y?

Refa- if SB is complaining about you not really having any reads, that's a read in and of itself, and even if you discount it, there is literally an infinite difference between 1 read and 0 reads, if you look at it as a ratio.

While Bard and Poly have somewhat different reasons for their WW suspicions, why are you so suspicious of one for their WW suspicions and not at all suspicious of the other?

[Refa]

I think you're unfairly disjointing the reasons people have here.

In the first place calling Wayward a wagon is silly and a stretch:

That really was my bad. I was thinking RVS votes for some idiotic reason.

My reasons for suspicion are arbitrariness of the suspicions meter based on values that change during the course of the post, whereas I understand what's-their-face's vote to be due to paranoia and attacking the action rather than the way it is done. That's entirely different from saying they are guaranteed scum or something.

OK, first of all, my ALL EXCLAMATION MARKS PART was an exaggeration, I know that noone has claimed anyone to be guaranteed scum at this point. While your reasoning is logically sound and strikes me as something a townie would do, I'm finding Polydeuces (assuming that's who you're referring to here) reasons for voting him to be scummy, which is why I railed against him in my last post.