Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 4 - Game Over

[charlie_]

But like, where does it get us besides having more info outed? It doesn't make any sense for them to claim.

gj being cut mitsuki

[Refa]

If one of them is scum then they already have that info anyways.

[Refa]

Refa are you actually Refa and not Not-Refa?

Don't you know who your Neighbor is?

[Percivalé]

whoever is me should claim Right Now (not really)

also @mitsuki I'm not feeling as bad about elie anymore either but that's a really bad reason to unvote someone. scum can try harder when they're about to be lynched too, it happens all the time.

[Refa]

She wasn't even voting Elieson?

[Percivalé]

wait do neighbors know who each other are I don't quite get how neighbors work

and can't they be opposite alignments too?

[Percivalé]

She wasn't even voting Elieson?

WOW I MISREAD THE EXTENSION VOTE AS AN UNVOTE

KILL ME

[Refa]

Yeah, they can (SF had an influx of Scum Neighbors recently lol).

[Shinori]

I'll be busy today and might not be around I'll try to get something this evening though.

[Mitsuki]

scum can try harder when they're about to be lynched too, it happens all the time.

It's different. It was 5 hours from deadline, Elie was the major wagon by far and the only one with enough votes to get a lynch. Also what I said with regards to meta.

[charlie_]

Uh, I spent a while waffling over Eli's claim and I don't feel like it's a fakeclaim? 0-shot anything isn't going to help him survive and if he was scum he would probably want to claim some big role at least and get CCed if his lynch looked like an inevitibility? I feel like I need to reread and decide though, so I'll do that soonish.

@Refa, admittedly I misread what part of your case you dismissed because of meta but at the same time why even include that? It just looks like you've padded it for no reason. I guess I could be interpretting the Eury/Boron thing wrongly but that's just how it read to me.

I don't like how Refa says "if one of them is scum they have that info anyway" with the neighbours thing, can't they both be town? (Or scum because Prims is a jerk but I doubt this.) That's a shitty reason for outing info for no reason.

[Refa]

I don't like how Refa says "if one of them is scum they have that info anyway" with the neighbours thing, can't they both be town? (Or scum because Prims is a jerk but I doubt this.) That's a shitty reason for outing info for no reason.

Eh, from what BBM said it seemed more likely to me that the neighbors would be a town/scum duo (actually you know what'd be hilarious would be scum/CL). I suppose it's still possible that they could both be town, but whatever.

[Elieson]

lol Refa I know who my neighbor is

Lul in high volume of calls at work, TIME TO DIVE BACK INTO THIS

[Refa]

Do you think that they're town?

[Elieson]

KindaSortaNullish on my neighbor. I've got more of a read on [Refa] due to ingame play, rather than NeighborChat. [Refa] won't really mind me saying that though, I think

[Refa]

I know I certainly don't, heh.

[FrostyFireMage]

Elie's claim sounds too overly complicated to be fabricated (and it would be difficult to make others believe it) so I'm feeling that he's town.

will prolly do ISOs or some such later

[Psych]

I like Psych's reason for claiming, despite the exact roleclaim itself.

I also don't really understand the top sentences

Not gonna lie, I think Boron makes good case points here and against me too, god i suck, but one thing I probably didn't make clear is just how much things like self-meta usage appear as scummy behavior to me. While BBM refered to his behavior as typical scum behavior in an effort to point out bearclaw's actions, I still think that it's scummy to have attributed himself to it. I still have reservations against SB but i've been so focused on replying to bbm that I haven't really touched on anything else

I don't even get this. I'm scummy because i gave a detailed explanation to ffm?

All this hate on my meta :(

Hey I fell asleep early and unexpectedly.

Dismissing Marth's gutread is pretty lame though. Gutreads are a thing and you can't hammer on someone for stating them.

I meant didn't. I didn't notice that typo till now

ON ANOTHER NOTE I AM SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE USING META GOD FOCUS ON THIS GAME NOT OTHER ONES

legit all these arguments are over stuff that is hardly relevant

I have no reason to doubt elieson's claim. It sounds weird to me, but I mean we have had zero shot stuff that comes up later. I suppose it could be scum faking and then driving later but i'm not getting that from him.

I'd still prefer another lynch to him but I'm not opposed. I think he's town but I can see how he could be scum but it's just not strong enough for me.

[Sunwoo]

I am feeling like shit right now and I need to prioritize host duties for Fantasy mafia over this game. Since we got an extension, this gives me some time to read through what I missed. Don't expect anything from me for the time being. I did see Elie's claim. It's … something, but it's not so obviously town that it alone is going to sway my mind.

More later.

[BBM]

Elie is locked into a Neighbour 0-shot Driver claim as either alignment... He can't exactly go I'M TOWN COP/HOOKER/DOCTOR/VIGILANTE when his Neighbour would chime in and CC him. If it was any other weak role I'd agree that Elie could have claimed a stronger role, but it isn't.

[Elieson]

surprisingly, nothing pinged me from a Proto and FFM reread.

Shinori's all over the place with his Quote read, has an unexplained -heavy- scumread on SB, and Me/BBM in a weird place regarding associative reads. I don't like how he's putting out a soft defense of BBM simply because I'm pushing him. I especially don't like that according to Shinori, SB is scummier than BBM simply because I'm on BBM's tail. That's what his chart looks like, anyway

[Elieson]

Also shinori Quote tends to react under pressure differently based on alignment, but not start a game with a different playstyle based on alignment. Not that i've noticed anyway?

[Eurykins]

So tired. @_@;;

- Wrt Boron/Refa shizz happening (Page 16-17)

~ I wasn't seeing a whole lot of Refa's points (even as he posted this, the only thing I got from it was, "I'm blatantly sheeping other people's cases, but I got nothin' on my own.", which makes me wonder why he was still stuck on BBM for so long to begin with.)

~ Boron's points/line of questioning seems legit- seems good to me.

- Mitsuki's posts as a whole (since I last posted) are striking me pretty bad.

~ Full wall on BBM. Points seemed a bit obscure/otherwise almost nitpicky, and some parts (like wrt role claims and whatnot) she seems to brush off in lieu of not bothering to register/apply those notions to the full-on BBM case, which isn't a great thing to do, imo.

~ Full wall on Elie. First point against him hardly makes sense to me, and the latter really doesn't tell me "Elie is scum" either.

-> Both were scum reads, and both posts felt both forced/fabricated of sorts, along with being pretty darn opportunistic (given the notion of who the top 2 wagons are atm). Very easy way to slide a vote on either one of the leading wagons to try and blend in with the rest of the crowd/flavor of the day phase in terms of lynch target.

- Not really sure where Psych was going with this?

- This post actually feels alright. (Though I'm still wondering about the lack of Refa read in general from Weapons, as he seems to keep dumping him into null or otherwise glazes over him without much thought.)

- Was this a sort of consolidation vote between Elie/BBM wagons?

~ That, and wrt the notion of my post: Those in the second tier are people who merited suspicions mostly due to their gameplay and/or associations with certain other players in a plausibly negative fashion. In addition, some players (like Beli) are on my "would lynch" list due to the fact that they're sitting there and doing nothing, literally. Whether they're lazy town or lazy scum, I don't like the attitude taken with said form of gameplay, which is why I have no qualms of lynching said person/people, town or not. (See this post and you'll see where my mindset lies in handling players of that sort and why I have issues with them.) Others may have been legitimately scummy in terms of posts/actions, while the rest comprise of a mix of gut vibes from what they've said/done.

~ TL;DR from above: My choices in terms of "who deserves to be lynched/considered for lynch and who doesn't" is based moreso on what I'm seeing in people's content/contributions in-game/thread as a whole, whether that number seemingly exceeds that of "what would be the usual/general assumed number associated with remaining scum parties/groups" or not. Consider it how you will.

- Refa's backpedal on BBM here sorta rubs me the wrong way. Very hot/cold, long-winded, and then ends up retracting his vote based on role-spec/claim of all things. The train of logic as well- who's to say what is and isn't a "decent scum claim" nowdays, honestly? After all, if listing off a seemingly quirky/odd role makes people double-guess their lynch target because it seems "too complex" or "too obscure/odd of a fakeclaim for a scum to have made", then why wouldn't scum do it? One could consider it a gamble- fakeclaiming in itself- imo.

~ Refa's "read" on bear also kinda sucks. Not giving us any real insight on him as a PLAYER- just based on what people have said about ONE thing he said/did.

~ Beli read also isn't informative. Why would scum not plausibly do something like coast, be inactive, and otherwise not contribute to town's scum-hunting efforts? Seems a lot easier than if they were actually townies who were interested in winning the game by aiding in finding scum, imo.

~ I'm not really getting much insight on overall read of Blitz. All you said at the end was "I don't think he's on anyone's scumdar atm" and being confused/not agreeing with some of his content (while liking other parts). Seems pretty generic/vague commentary on someone's gameplay.

- Another Mitsuki post I'm not overly fond of. Glazes over various reads (Blitz/Refa), and part of her 'scum' read on Iris is claiming that Iris is going with the flow of things (which I'm inclined to believing Mitsuki is doing just as well/prominently) in terms of voting/wagons, so pot meet kettle there.

- Careless voting + really weird role-speccing on Kay/SB slot = What? Don't understand the logic and don't really see it as having been reasonable from the start/original vote/post on the matter.

- Reaction to Weapons seems a bit odd, given that multiple people (including myself) have made notions wrt you disappearing for a while from this game specifically. Sure, IRL matters happen (happened to me as well), but you seem to almost victimize yourself here by pointing out Weapon's comment in a way that seems to make him look like the sole offender.

- Wrt another Refa post:

~ ...Am I the only one seeing an issue with his Boron read(s)/comments?

" I dunno, like I think her posts have been pretty fine overall but there's nothing that makes me think she's town? I'd actually be totally cool with lynching here."

Translation: "I have no issues with her posts as a whole, but (even so), I don't think she's town? Sure, we can lynch her."

...What?

~ Wrt my reads (Yay, people reading my wallposts! Feels awesome. :D)

1. Knowing there is a cult and letting people know is one thing. Openly tossing out randomly, "HEY, GAIZ, I'M CULTPROOF" with the knowledge of a cult being around? That is what I have an issue with- people feeding information unnecessarily to another scum party (namely wrt the cult) which is not something we need to be done, as all that does is give them more means to plan out their action(s).

2. Pffft... yeah, I realized a bit later that some links are broken- FORMATTING IS HARD. ;_;

3. You're being completely unabashed and unashamed of your sheeping, which in turn is affecting how much of YOU/YOUR thoughts I'm hearing from your posts (plus the amount of pure spammage I've seen is making things look really bad to me, in the sense of QUANTITY flooding your posts, rather than having some semblance of QUALITY. Granted, Bluedoom himself is far from innocent in the sense of "not much effort" in his posts (as was already stated), but yours (spammage + random sheeping [in some cases, pretty poor cases you chose to sheep as well] + not really giving us YOUR thoughts) just drops worse vibes to me.

4. If someone's being anti-town, there's a reason why. Whether it's laziness, scumminess, or something else, being anti-town by any means is bad, and is lynchworthy in my eyes. If someone winds up on my priority list, then it's no one's fault but their own- see SF3 Knot; I'm not ashamed to have slammed down a hammer/case on someone who was by no means aiding town at all (quite frankly, he was more antagonistic and otherwise harmed us tenfold more than scum alone), and I don't care for people like that to be the ones remaining as the day phases wind on. Either fulfill your role as a true townie and help us legitimately scum-hunt/be productive, or be done with. We don't need chaotic townies gunking up scum reads because they're doing blatantly anti-town actions/posts and confusing/messing the rest of us up as a result (scum can easily slide under the radars and coast under their noise).

5. Why the complaint? I've agreed/supported VARIOUS players in terms of points, cases, etc. Me disagreeing with cases/points is part of the game. Boron herself has just not done much as a whole that I don't disagree with, thus I don't have much complaints about her? (Btw, I also skipped over a LOT of noise/nonsense posts/spammages as well, which was really obnoxious to sort through.) If it's dismaying to see me tear apart almost everyone's arguments and points while giving my opinions (agree/disagree) on them, then I fail to see the point in me participating in such games, honestly. The entire point of Mafia games is to dig into and look into what people are saying/doing, which is exactly what I did. (I'm also working towards keeping points/comments more concise with my posts, so I'm avoiding tip-toeing around points that I feel are good/bad- whether that inadvertently makes me seem colder/harsher as a result is debatable.)

6. No real issue with FFM notions.

7. Your last comment/lines + Boron vote sounds weird though, at least to me.

- Hard to describe, but the tone in this post actually sounded okay.

- Likewise, the tone here is making me feel more plausible frustrated town.

- ...What?

~ " Also my point with Eury is that she's scumreading everyone but one person"

...Okay, one sec. I believe I had 5 people on my "Would Lynch" section, and with another 5 people on "Would consider". [With 'Everyone else' under "would not consider"]

5 + 5 = 10

Total Player base = 20

20 - 10 = 10 players I "Would not consider" (including myself).

So.... how am I "scumreading everyone but one person" exactly? I know I'm no math professor, but the gross over exaggeration of what my reads/priority list consists of = kinda bad? (And again, some are based more around "bad gameplay" vs "purely scummy", so... those part of my priority list may also not be considered "purely scummy" but "still worth removing because they're still a hindrance to the game in some way/shape/form?

At this point (updated reads/thoughts on people):

- Mitsuki has been promoted to Worst offenders (lynch-worthy) category due to post quality/vibes worsening.

- Weapons and Elieson have been temporarily moved out of Worst offenders (lynch-worthy): and into Would Consider (but not a D1 priority atm): due to their reactions/posts slightly improving since then.

So as a whole: Refa = Mitsuki >> Weapons = Elieson > Rest of the people listed in other posts/priorities > Everyone else. I'd like Mitsuki or Refa lynched this day phase.

##Unvote

##Vote: Mitsuki

[Refa]

lol

[Belisarius]

Is this an RVS or serious vote??

It's kind of sad you have no other reads though?

Trying to discredit is a mafia tactic.

… I don't know how you can ignore everything except for Quote and Iris by waving it off as "standard D1 shenanigans," but it strikes me as scummy. ;/

Because that's all it is. I can't make any associations because we have no information. I'd rather make a play based on independent behavior (such as calling for subs).

Beli's responses to Iris and Sangyul seem questionable. A Sub-call is one thing, but why would mafia draw attention to themselves with calling for a sub anyway? They'd be better off just lurking Day 1 and letting someone else take the lynch.

but all there really was (still is) from Beli is a strange and noncommital scumread on Quote for not being Obvtown or something like that

Even commenting on me would've been better, but why's Beli avoiding talking about the elephant in the room, I don't get it

It's a way to look like you want to help the town without having to do anything.

No I found Quote to be noncommittally scummy for being skittish for no reason. It was something to do with cat sites and getting killed or something.

Iris is by far my preferred vote so I'm committed to it. Since she's the first vote on you that would pretty much mean you're not mafia because there's no reason to bus in this situation. I don't find BBM scummy and I'd like to give him the chance to prove his role as he is claiming to be able to. Basically I can't lynch either of you. I'll have to go back and read Mitsuki and Blitz since they seem like popular options.