Duelist Kingdom Mafia [Game Over]

[Shin]

I think you shouldn't compare what SB has done to what the rest has done, you should compare it to what you'd expect him to do as town/scum. Having this in mind, what do you think about SB?

Like I said before, it's more that he hasn't really done a huge amount. I can appreciate the logic behind his first two votes and his last post was actually pretty legit and probably makes up for his somewhat lacking content before.

I legit think Dandragon doesn't know what to do, it doesn't look like he's getting any help from people. Whilst that doesn't exclude him from being scum, it's not like he has an active refusal to play or provide content, it's more he doesn't know how. Refa, I think his Baldrick defense is less an actual defense and more an attempt to say something, his reasoning's really generic.

[Shin]

Just read Dandragon's response to RD woops, yeah, that's more defensive of him.

[Refa]

dandragon was generally pretty lost earlygame in FE11 and didn't really do too much until the later cycles. I'm not too worried about him because I feel like he would've just made up some suspicion as scum anyway by now, but it's not a strong read.

Why is Randa town?

Fair enough. Going to retract my read from him now then, although I'd like to see him put out more content as the game progresses (no duh).

His read on Shin seemed genuine (yeah, I know it's easier for scum to have genuine town reads) and more importantly, he put a lot more effort into supporting that read than I feel scum would make? Don't really have a problem with his votes, and generally he's coming across as town who's kind of lost to me. Probably not as strong as I initially thought, but still feel fine about him.

As for Poly, I already had a minor townread on him for his first post (which is definitely not something I can see him saying as scum). His reads post just reinforces that, really. Also more importantly, if he made that post as scum, I feel like he would've stuck to his guns and held onto his vote on Randa rather than unvoting as soon as Randa disproved one of the points on him.

[Dandragon]

I legit think Dandragon doesn't know what to do

That's partially it. I suppose I'm just waiting for something significant to happen as all I really see is people pointing fingers for how they word posts, although I admit that is most likely the shittest way to play.

My defense of Baldrick really was not well thought out, I admit this as well. I just have experience of dying D1 with the few practice games I have played. More to the point.

Allow me to study the posts a bit more closely.

[charlie_]

I can't make heads or tails of Randa's Shin defense. The Poly read makes sense though.

[Mitsuki]

Mitsuki, I've been busy with RL stuff (and probably will continue to be until Friday) but either way, why am I incapable of staying motivated as scum? If past scumgames are any indication, I can keep myself motivated regardless of alignment. I'm not really sure what you wanted out of me contentwise either considering I was up to date with stuff last night?

I understand you're busy, but my thoughts still stand.

When I talk about motivation I mean motivation to get things done rather than motivation to post. I don't think you're motivated to get a lynch on scum, and that is independant of your time to post.

It feels like you're laying on the background and not doing much, and while I can see why part of that would be because of being busy, I don't think it explains the whole picture. I see your posts as scum motivated; as I said your votes feel easy and lazy, including your current Baldrick vote.

To further explain my opinion on SB's votes: I think SB is voting bad instead of scummy and that he's aware of it. Also he's mostly sticking to popular opinions, as town I'd expect him to have more unique reads.

[Radiant Dragon]

Perhaps he doesnt find anyone scummy right off the bat?

No, he obviously found Shin at least somewhat scummy and only avoided putting a vote down in fear of a potential hammer.

Would like to see a little more effort coming from Dan and Poly (although it seems that Poly may just be busy).

##Vote: Technosuke

Techno's bothering me a bit, however. His stance on Baldrick seems to be misrepresenting him a bit when I look through Baldrick's ISO - I see a lot more of Baldrick defending himself than 'trying to move things forward', and he's only questioned Mitsuki in one post today, so 'poking Mitsuki repeatedly' is an over-exaggeration to say the least. This case doesn't sit well with me. In addition, his points about Refa and Randa have already been mentioned more than once yet he doesn't bring anything new to the discussion, nor does he go into any real detail about anyone else.

[Technosuke]

##Vote: Technosuke

Techno's bothering me a bit, however. His stance on Baldrick seems to be misrepresenting him a bit when I look through Baldrick's ISO - I see a lot more of Baldrick defending himself than 'trying to move things forward', and he's only questioned Mitsuki in one post today, so 'poking Mitsuki repeatedly' is an over-exaggeration to say the least. This case doesn't sit well with me. In addition, his points about Refa and Randa have already been mentioned more than once yet he doesn't bring anything new to the discussion, nor does he go into any real detail about anyone else.

That's because im pretty much a noob in mafia, but I know that's no excuse, so sorry for that.

Im trying to notice something new or useful but it just falls kind of flat.

I've been reading Shin for a while and im finally getting to something, I think he might actually be town?

His reads seem fairly interesting, specially his SB read which goes on to say that SB does not actually do much, which, reading him again, might be actually true? I don't know.

Still, im getting FoS over Baldrick, don't know why, might be gut, might be magic.

[charlie_]

I understand you're busy, but my thoughts still stand.

When I talk about motivation I mean motivation to get things done rather than motivation to post. I don't think you're motivated to get a lynch on scum, and that is independant of your time to post.

It feels like you're laying on the background and not doing much, and while I can see why part of that would be because of being busy, I don't think it explains the whole picture. I see your posts as scum motivated; as I said your votes feel easy and lazy, including your current Baldrick vote.

To further explain my opinion on SB's votes: I think SB is voting bad instead of scummy and that he's aware of it. Also he's mostly sticking to popular opinions, as town I'd expect him to have more unique reads.

Why am I not motivated to lynch scum?

I'm not going to go with hipster votes just for the sake of it and I was the first person to really suspect Baldrick and Randa anyway so uh this logic really doesn't work. How is what Baldrick's doing not scummy?

[Dandragon]

At the risk of sounding like a self-contradicting scumbag;

Baldrik's vote on Shin strikes me as odd. I may be missing something, but I don't really see a specified reason as to why he thinks Shin is scum. As far as I can tell, Shin has so far explained why he believes Refa is town and has been attacked by Mitsuki for the way he has worded it.

However, Mitsuki's logic bothers me more. Her attack on SB really seems more like a reason to get someone lynched and move on, as does her vote on Shin earlier. Being lazy or unmotivated doesn't seem like a legit reason to vote, and I don't see how SB has acted lazy. There aren't really "bad votes" especially on day 1. Little has happened, and I believe you are desperately looking for someone to lynch.

##Vote: Mitsuki

If I could explain my stance better, I could.

[Mitsuki]

Why am I not motivated to lynch scum?

Because your votes feel easy and lazy, also gut.

I'm not going to go with hipster votes just for the sake of it and I was the first person to really suspect Baldrick and Randa anyway so uh this logic really doesn't work. How is what Baldrick's doing not scummy?

I'm not saying you should go for hipster votes, but you can have reads on people other than the ones who everybody is talking about (including townreads). I know your first Baldrick vote was the first serious Baldrick vote, but generally your reads seem to follow the flow more than a clear train of thought.

@Dandragon: I don't think you've understood what I meant about SB's attitude. Read my clarification on what I meant about his motivation here (first bit of the post). I'm also not saying SB is scum for being lazy, I just think that his votes are lazy and I see that as scummy. To be honest I'm not sure I worded it properly, it's more like I think SB's votes are forced. There's a part of gut involved on this, too.

I'm not casing SB on making bad votes either, as I think his votes are bad, but town can make bad votes as well. What I think is that he's scumhunting based on why people are bad instead of scumhunting on why people are scummy, and since I don't see a clear train of thought behind it, I think he's scum bullshitting suspicion.

Another way of saying this is "I think what SB is bringing up is bad (which makes him null), but I think that his votes are scum motivated".

[Mitsuki]

ugh, I didn't reply to SB on my thoughts on Baldrick. He's null, I don't see anything he's done as telling. If you want me to consider something specific, just go ahead and bring it up.

[charlie_]

Repeating that my votes are lazy without saying why they're lazy doesn't make it true. I have townreads I haven't talked about but none of them are really in danger of lynch and explaining them when I don't need to makes it easier for them to trick me later on in the game if I'm wrong.

If I'm being lazy with my vote, why is Baldrick's case on Shin that's basically the same as it was two pages ago getting a pass?

[Mitsuki]

Lazy =/= scummy. Second time I say this, sigh

Anyways I'll make a summary of my thoughts on your votes because I don't think people are following what I meant.

So you don't want to bring up your townreads, that's ok. Why did you bring up your Refa townread here, then?

[charlie_]

You keep saying my votes are lazy and scummy so ???

I brought it up because there was nothing going on in hopes it would get people talking about something.

[Mitsuki]

To be honest I think I didn't make the right choice of words when I said "lazy". A more accurate way to describe the feeling I get is that your votes are forced and easy.

... I can specify, I guess, but that'd mean relieving pressure on Randa and Baldrick.

[Shin]

Why am I not motivated to lynch scum?

I'm not going to go with hipster votes just for the sake of it and I was the first person to really suspect Baldrick and Randa anyway so uh this logic really doesn't work. How is what Baldrick's doing not scummy?

SB so hipster. I'm not entirely sure why Mitsuki's constantly mentioning SB. Like, loads of her recent content revolves around the same points she's trying to make. Although truth be told, SB's pretty much just responding to Mitsuki, so it's kinda two way now.

I'm not a massive fan of RD's Technosuke vote, although the logic makes sense, I don't really see scum intent from Techno currently, he's similar to Dandragon by virtue of seeming relatively new to mafia. Not that it's a clear pass, but something that needs to be factored in.

Vote's still on Baldrick, he hasn't really produced anything to make me change my mind and all my reasons for voting him still stand true.

[charlie_]

I'd like you to specify, because I can't follow your logic.

[Baldrick]

Doing a post atm.

@Everyone (RD in particular) What do you make of me saying "Consider my vote to be on Shin"?

Shin, you're part of everyone. Do you think that sounds like someone who doesn't want to be seen as a part of things?

I wouldn't really call it echoing, Mitsuki didn't like you bringing up points on a townread, I didn't like you not following through on them.

Do you disagree with this? If so, why?

[Shin]

Shin, you're part of everyone. Do you think that sounds like someone who doesn't want to be seen as a part of things?

I've already talked about you not putting down an actual vote.

[Baldrick]

The reason I did not vote was because I did not want to accidentally cause a quickhammer. Do you think I'm lying?

[Technosuke]

(I have a question, how many votes are needed for it to be hammer? I don't remember now...

Thank you in advance, i'tll be useful to know.

I'll post tomorrow trying to get some more reads ;;

Good night my dears!)

[Baldrick]

Moving on, if I'm reading her right, I think Mitsuki is holding me to a different standard than SB? It makes sense, I'll be the first to admit my scumhunting is shit, but I'm not going to stop trying because people don't expect much of me. @SB; I'll ask you the same question you asked me about RD.

[Baldrick]

@poly, tech; I understand you're new to mafia, so you're going to want to back up your reads with quotes or other evidence whenever possible.

@SB; The first vote was a query, the second has an accusation to go with it, that Shin was only pursuing cases only where he had a lot of support. Compare his Refa read (he was suspicious of Refa's content, only a townread on rolespec) to these two posts. The first is a similar poke with no vote, the second has a vote. What changed? I don't buy his "general thinking about stuff" excuse. I didn't post in that time, but Randa/Refa voted/said they'd sheep my case.

RD seemed to not want to call me out on being hesitant, instead making a case that makes no sense. Why did he avoid mentioning the obvious?

About Randa. On first read, I had no problem with his vote on me, he lampshaded his hypocrisy so I don't think he is scum. I did the same thing about my hesitancy ("Deliberately not voting is a townie thing to do, right?")

I already said the Randa/Mitsuki debate seemed legit, if I had to make a judgment I'd call it a town slapfight. Mitsuki vote was due to his not reading her ISO properly so it's null to me.

@Dandragon; Here is Shin's post.

Refa's ramblings about "I'm not scum so I wouldn't know" come across as weird and the odd specifics of his role seem a little too descriptive. Still, scum who can only literally just sit there and twiddle their thumbs is really dumb.

The first sentence is the important one. His townreading of Refa is due to rolespec, which is bad to rely on and also flawed in this case. If Refa was scum (that's a very big if), he could have another part to his role and this part is his fakeclaim.

The context of this post was right at the end of RVS. If you are town and don't have any solid reads, you'll want to pursue anything that strikes you as odd, right? But Shin was willing to ignore it in favour of continuing RVS.

[Baldrick]

Tech should elaborate on Shin and his thoughts on SB, I can't quite tell what he means by "interesting".

I kind of agree with Refa re: Dan, from what little I saw of his play in FE11 he seemed more confident and less accommodating in his opinions. Would vote him at deadline.