Duelist Kingdom Mafia [Game Over]

[Dandragon]

His later posts don't help my case, but I don't think they harm it either. I would call them... conservative? He says Mitsuki and SB are talking about each other too much but he doesn't ask them for opinions on others. He tells Dandragon "stuff" has happened but doesn't be specific to give him a talking point. He pokes at Tech and RD but there's no real pressure behind it, and he isn't really engaging with me either to refute my case on him or justify his own. I get the feeling he's happy if the game stagnates.

I have to agree on this point. If I could propose a hypothesis, Shin could possibly be a neutral

Can we please not lynch Baldrick? His latest posts make 0 sense as scum, why wouldn't he try to push hard someone to get someone else lynched rather than explain his reads better? There's also the fact that his tone doesn't read like scum getting lynched, but as town giving up.

I'm ok with lynching Shin. Checking his posts he has a lot of non-conclusive reads. Also, when you check his Baldrick vote, there's not really much behind it; his case is basically just an "easy wagon hop". But this was less than 24 hours into the game, and Baldrick's vote was just the second one on Shin.

I don't like the lack of followup either. I think this is a really weak vote by now and that town would have tried to either find someone else to vote or argue with their suspect, specially when Baldrick was actually trying to talk with Shin (Shin replied, but that's it). Looks like a votepark to me.

##unvote

##vote: Shin

I need to reconsider SB, but that will take a while.

Something bothers me about this post, as it reflects the attitude you seem to have had throughout the entire game thus far. If I recall correctly, you have stood by Baldrick the entire time. Not once have you refuted any points he has nor have you questioned his logic. In this post you are outright defending him by saying not to lynch him. This almost seems like you are buddying up with him. Then you immediately go and attack Shin and go into far more detail as to why he seems scummy to you than as to why Baldrick isn't. Forgive me for throwing wild accusations, but perhaps you switched over to Shin after you realized no one was following you on your attack on SB.

Because your votes feel easy and lazy, also gut.

I'm not casing SB on making bad votes either, as I think his votes are bad, but town can make bad votes as well. What I think is that he's scumhunting based on why people are bad instead of scumhunting on why people are scummy, and since I don't see a clear train of thought behind it, I think he's scum bullshitting suspicion.

Another way of saying this is "I think what SB is bringing up is bad (which makes him null), but I think that his votes are scum motivated".

Why exactly is this an issue? A single person voting lazily will not skewer the votes as a majority shall still obtain a lynch. And you reasoning does not seem to be clear, to me at least.

Lazy =/= scummy. Second time I say this, sigh

Then why vote SB. In the previous post you mentioned you believe SB to be scum bullshitting the town, now you say SB's actions aren't scummy. I feel tempted to accuse you of what you accuse of SB. You're reasoning is wishy washy and you have not presented anything substantial to prove SB as scum. And I believe because of that you have gone back to your original vote against Shin.

I'm more concerned, however, with your feelings on Baldrick. As I said before, you have defended Baldrick without any given reason besides "he doesn't seem scummy" or "it doesn't make sense as scum." Throughout the game you seem to be cooperating with one-another, and in a NOC game, this strikes me as odd. Call me a hypocrite as I did defend Baldrick in the beginning, however I have changed my tune. But you seem to be defending him all the time and shifting the attention onto Shin. So this is my response.

##Unvote

##Vote: Baldrick

I'm sorry if I still seem vague about everything.

@Baldrick: What is your read on Mitsuki

@Mitsuki: What is your read on Baldrick

[Mitsuki]

Dandragon, Baldrick was null to me until his more recent posts. I already stated why I think he's town. A lot of it is gut, but as I said, I don't think scum wouldn't be trying to get some counterwagon going as an attempt to save themselves. Do you think his attitude is that of scum close to getting lynched?

I defend whoever I think is town and in danger of getting lynched. (check my play last game if you want, or any game you want really).

I can't get people interested on my SB cases, this is a fact. And it frustrates me to no avail, but if I can't get him lynched, I'll try to lynch my other scumread. It's the best I can do.

I never said that I didn't find SB scummy, but I tend to not be able to explain things properly a lot of the time. For clarification on my thoughts on SB, you should check this post, which I think explains everything in a much more clear way and adds some points. By the way, what do you think of SB? What do you think about the meta on him I brought up?

I'm not really sure what you mean with several of your points, so if you feel like I haven't answered to something, just explain it again and I'll try to reply.

[charlie_]

I exist but still need to finish coursework stuff tonight. How long do we have left?

[charlie_]

nvm i can't read

[charlie_]

Apparently Shin cases are a thing but I don't really want to lynch him? I get that his cases are weak but I don't feel like his pushes are particularly malicious? It looks more like he lacks confidence in who to vote and I think his response to Mitsuki's case is townie ("I can see where you're coming from, but you're wrong) when he's kind of a legitimate lynch option is kind of risky for scum. I also feel like if he wanted to keep pushing the Baldrick case as scum he wouldn't have a hard time doing it considering the amount of material the slot has given out recently.

I guess I need to actually read wallposts instead of skimming over them now? Sigh.

[charlie_]

SB is definitely trying, but something doesn't feel right. I just don't think I've ever seen him be defensive. He's been passive occasionally but even when he's scum I don't think I've seen him be defensive, I really don't know what to make of that.

This is literally what people said about me in Tyne-Wear and then scum killed me the next night anyway.

##Unvote

Baldrick's later posts have been easier to follow along with and I can see the points he's making on Shin and RD more clearly now even if I disagree with them. My comment about RD was because I feel like his playstyle this game is a lot different to in Quickhammer. It feels like he's pursuing his own lines of inquiry more instead of following the crowd like he did last game.

Randa's response to my question kind of sucks. He was clearly scumreading Baldrick here considering the vote but he seems to have forgotten about it completely which doesn't make sense if he was actually suspicious of the slot, which makes me feel like he's faking it. Also his comments that he can't tell what Baldrick is thinking at all (which somehow equates to a nullread) is slightly bizarre to me as I feel like Baldrick's stance on Shin was very obvious and he has explicitly stated reads on both Mitsuki and Randa himself. His suspicions are also feel very vague to me.

Also I was probably coming across as defensive while talking to Mitsuki because well... I was defending myself?

Will talk about Mitsuki next post to prevent this from becoming a massive wall.

[charlie_]

On SB: I still feel like he's been kind of uninvolved with the game, and I think he's scum on gut.

I can't really point much wrong with his votes though, just that they're weak given the context, not weak by themselves. The first Baldrick vote is ok, but the Randa vote here is different, since a lot more had happened by then and voting someone on a weird behaviour is weak. I don't think this would be telling for most players, but SB tends to have way more solid cases than this as town, since he's a pretty good player.

With regards to the second Baldrick vote, well, I think Baldrick tried to get somewhere with his Shin vote so I don't see it as scummy, and I don't like the fact that SB didn't take this into consideration.

I've checked SB's meta on how he reacts to my cases on him, and I think his replies this game are more like his scum meta. I'm going from these two posts: town post, scum post. As town you can see how he explains his train of thought and motivations in a clear and calm way, as scum he's more agressive and tries to invalidate the case by asking questions about how the points brought up against him make sense.

SB > Shin. This is frustrating, because I feel like nobody ever listens to me on SB.

@Baldrick and Tech: what do you think about SB?

I voted Randa to put pressure on him to respond because I hadn't gotten much out of the recent posts at the time but Randa's response was pretty closed so I didn't really have anything to pursue. You're basically saying my Baldrick vote is scummy because you disagree with it and I'm clearly going to have the same thoughts as you.

I couldn't really take apart your case like in CYOU'RE because here it was you repeating the same vague points over and over again. I'm gonna point to Tyne-Wear again for an example of me responding in basically the same way as I have to things in this game.

Nobody's listening because you're wrong :V

I was gonna post about my read on Mitsuki here but I want to see her response to this first because it kind of influences it.

[charlie_]

RD keeps viewing and not posting >:

What do you think about Shin, Randa and Mitsuki?

[Refa]

Just woke up and am very tired and possibly incomprehensible; initial thoughts are that I'd probably lynch Randa over Shin (this could just be because he hasn't posted in forever though, so I'm less inclined to agree with him), and that I should really look into Radiant Dragon. If there really are just 2 scum, I wouldn't be opposed to a NL because I'm not sure I have enough time to actually make a detailed ISO post due to a lot of my work stacking up.

[Mitsuki]

Well, maybe I'm wrong. But I'm town.

(EM injoke)

Shin's response felt somehow townie to me, but I wasn't sure. SB's thoughts on Shin seemed townie to me and I kind of agree. I should probably reconsider this better to see if it's bias but I have no time to. Maybe I seem very active, but irl I'm basically screaming around and multitasking. I'd need at least 3 other Mitsukis to take care of everything properly.

"Those are my scumreads, and if you don't like them... well, I have others"

Let me just paste what I wrote on my thoughts QT, for convenience:

"Randa could be scum because of something he answered and his ambiguous opinions on the game but I'm willing to wait and see what he does in deadline shenanigans"

RIP waiting and obvserving. As for what Randa answered that I found scummy, here's the quote:

i think it's pretty clear if i think the logic doesn't apply then its forced. and yes you got it dead the logic isn't inherently wrong, i just think its too early to use that as the basis of your case. you don't have to be scum for me to disagree with you.

Specially the bolded part, feels like scum rethoric.

##unvote

##vote: Randa

If I changed my good reads because of dumb reasons yet again I'm going to rage so much.

[Elieson]

Elieson's First FIST Mist Misty Musty Rusty Rust Votals

---

Randa (2): Shin, Mitsuki

Shin (1): Baldrick

Baldrick (1): Dandragon

Technosuke (1): Radiant Dragon

Voteless: Technosuke, Refa, Poly, Randa

---

8 hours and 21 minutes remain. 6 hammers early. Otherwise, majority=Lynch

[Radiant Dragon]

- "Mitsuki and Shin are both null" has a small contradiction. Her case is weak, but she is diligent in her suspicion? Does that mean he thinks it's good that she's trying to get out of RVS? Surely you could say something about Shin; is he being diligent or not? Is SB being diligent?
- Wants more effort from Dan and Poly but nothing to say about what they did?
- It's fairly obvious Tech is a newbie, RD's case doesn't really explain why he's newbscum rather than newbtown. The meat of the case is Tech misrepping me; what does that mean for RD's suspicion of me? Does he think it was a bus, or are they independent cases (i.e. don't make associative reads without a flip)

I already said that I felt Mitsuki's initial Shin case seemed more like Town jumping on the first thing that seemed suspicious, regardless how small to get things rolling.

Reading Shin and SB's ISOs I get the feeling that they're buddying a bit? They've both criticized cases made about the other without giving strong opinions about each other until SB's post here, which is a defense of Shin. I may be seeing things that don't exist here, but I'm uneasy of it. That said, Shin's Randa vote doesn't seem like a move that scum with a decent chance of getting lynched due to inactivity would make, especially considering the lack of pressure Randa has been under and the rest of his content is pretty reasonable, so my feelings are conflicted on this slot. SB I'm having a more difficult time reading, though. He's been pretty defensive but he's been under fire for most of the phase so I can't really fault him for that.

Looking over Mitsuki, her SB case is pretty bad and is almost nothing but a meta-read. The main crux of her case seems to be that SB's votes have been 'lazy' and 'forced and easy', but she ignores that his votes have hardly been the worst in the game - Randa's, Baldrick's and even my own votes if we're being completely honest can all be argued to be worse than SB's, so I don't think singling him out is indicative of anything. I don't think her case here is scummy more than it is bad though; I just don't agree with it. She's also been buddying Baldrick pretty hard, to the point I'm wondering if they're not masons or scumbuddies.

Dandragon's last post bothers me. He spends the whole time making points against Mitsuki and then votes Baldrick? Like, he moves his vote from Mitsuki to Baldrick just because Mitsuki has been buddying him. What are your thoughts about Baldrick beside his vote on Shin? What do you think of his interactions with the other non-Mitsuki/Shin players?

Going to reread Baldrick's ISO here in a sec, and Randa's too because that's apparently a thing now? Gimme a minute and I'll post my thoughts on those two.

[Radiant Dragon]

Whoops, got so caught up in ISOs I forgot what I was replying to.

- I didn't say much about Poly because he was basically just summarizing what had happened so I didn't feel there was much to say about it until he had time to post. As for Dandragon I just wanted to see him make more effort. I'm kinda disappointed with how Poly has just disappeared, though.

- Blantant misrepresentation is a scummy move. I don't see how being new excuses exaggerating to such lengths. As for what this means on my suspicion of Baldrick, it is indeed an independent case. Just because I'm suspicious about Baldrick doesn't mean he's obvscum (if only the game were so easy we could blindly follow my suspicions to victory, but alas) and I'm free to have my concerns of others who may share my suspicions.

[Dandragon]

My vote on Baldrick was an attempt to to get a reaction out of mitsuki to see if i could prove my case.

[Radiant Dragon]

What are your thoughts about Baldrick beside his vote on Shin? What do you think of his interactions with the other non-Mitsuki/Shin players?

[Radiant Dragon]

I'm still not comfortable with Baldrick, mostly because his Shin case feels somewhat ....forced? at this point (not quite sure how to put it. Stagnant might be a better word in this case) since he doesn't seem to be putting a significant amount of effort into reading players besides Shin. He has been defending himself most of the phase though, but I guess I just expected a little bit more from him by now?

As for Randa, reading his last post here he gives a brief summary of Baldrick, SB, Mitsuki and myself and then goes on to say he doesn't know what it means... for each of us. I can understand not being 100% sure of your reads, but this is ridiculous. It's basically a giant filler post that says nothing, not even a vote. Looking over the rest of his post in isolation I realized that the majority of his content has been more of the same: mostly filler. I'm starting to get the impression that he's trying to passively skate through the phase without having to commit too much to any of his reads.

I'm not completely convinced, and I'd rather lynch Baldrick just for the associative reads it'll give us, but I'm going to ##Unvote, ##Vote: Randa because I'm not going to be around until after deadline and I need to consolidate my vote.

[Mitsuki]

Hey SB I'm still waiting for your super awesome read on me

[Mitsuki]

also @Dandragon: are you going to do something with my reaction? Which are your conclusions on me (and Baldrick, but RD already asked about that)?

[Baldrick]

@shin; I don't think there were any wagons apart from me and you that had more than one vote, and you questioned RD's vote on Tech and admitted you didn't find Mitsuki scummy.

@Dan; recently her posts on SB have been a bit overzealous. When he made that vote I hadn't pushed Shin that much (because I was waiting for him to respond) and his play seems more like the town post she linked.

@RD; are you saying shin wasn't suspicious of anything at that time?

I know there's more to respond to and I should be more detailed.

I'm leaving for work, I should be back before phase end but don't know when.

[charlie_]

I'm still not done with work stuff welp.

@Mitsuki, I thought you were pushing me for terrible reasons which along with being questionable on its own is pretty much in line with your scumplay (CYOU'RE, NotV2) and the way that you persisted with it for a while before suddenly dropping and turning around to sheep me was like... really fucking weird to the point that I wasn't really sure how to interpret it at first, but after almost overthinking a lot I think it's just scummy. Also the post where you said "why does nobody ever agree with me on SB?" seemed really weird because I can remember town!you pushing scum!me once and that game was a year ago or something so it seemed out of place.

Fuck, I kind of want to vote here over Randa now. Help.

[Mitsuki]

I don't see how my reasons were terrible, altough I can see how your play makes sense as town now. I know I've voted you as scum before but I forgot about what I cased you for, so I can't really give my thoughts there.

All I can say is that in Yume Nikki I suddenly turned around my scumread on you to a townread (actually it was even faster, just after one reply of yours).

If you're talking about my Randa suspicion, I'm not sheeping you on that, since I thought about it before, after Shin posted about it. Your posts were the ones that made me change my mind and think that I was wrong with my reads, though.

(I was counting games where I've been wrong, pushing you as scum and EM games by the way. I think nobody has ever agreed with my cases on you, actually).

[Mitsuki]

What do you think about Randa right now?

[Technosuke]

Guys, due to real life issues related to my studies that I failed at foreseeing I will need a replacement u__u

Im sorry, i became way busier than I expected and while I do have a little bit of time I don't think i'll be able to focus enough (Even when I did have some time I had some issues focusing so it will be pretty much impossible for me ><)

So, yeah... if we could get a replacement for me it would be really good. Thank you, and sorry again for the inconvenience!

[Mitsuki]

By the way guys, I'll be going to sleep soon and I won't be around at phase end.

[charlie_]

##Vote: Randa

forgot to do this

i'm out for the phase sorry guys