VincentASM Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Does anybody have any idea how the growth rates might be stored? There seems to be a string of numbers that are where one would expect them to be, but the numbers don't seem very meaningful. Eg. Fortune alterations for My Unit (Skl +1, Spd +1 trait) 5D 36 AF 46 2F EA C3 BC Marth D1 E3 6C E1 F6 2E 15 49 98 A9 AE A7 BC BD B2 CB Lord 32 C7 C4 B3 D8 46 21 06 CD EA D7 74 99 46 63 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whase Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 ... 5D 36 AF 46 2F EA C3 BC ... D1 E3 6C E1 F6 2E 15 49 98 A9 AE A7 BC BD B2 CB ... 32 C7 C4 B3 D8 46 21 06 CD EA D7 74 99 46 63 10 hmm, reminds me of hexadecimal, or however that was called~ guess I'm not that much of a help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolt Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 If the same times work as they do with Shadow Dragon, we can do guess and check with clock abuse. I only suggest that because I can't make sense of hex coding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 hmm, reminds me of hexadecimal, or however that was called~ guess I'm not that much of a help? That's because it is :P Vince is asking more how those numbers mean actual growth rates, as it doesn't look as familiar, clear-cut, or whatever... hum~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Have you found other data BESIDES growths? If so, where? Maybe post all that data (unless the bytes you gave IS all the data, in which case I'm surprised). I could take a crack at it once I'm done with the translation patch, buuuuuut I probably wouldn't be too much help either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 (edited) I'm gonna need a different font for this! First, I don't know how My Unit works, so I'll ignore that. I'm also assuming Marth doesn't promote. Translating the data from hex to decimal didn't make much sense. Here's what I got: Marth: 209 227 108 225 246 46 21 73 152 169 174 167 188 189 178 203 Lord: 50 199 196 179 216 70 33 6 205 234 215 116 153 70 99 16 Binary isn't much more help, but here's what it looks like: Marth: 1101 0001 1110 0011 0110 1100 1110 0001 1111 0110 0010 1110 0001 0101 0100 1001 1001 1000 1010 1001 1010 1110 1010 0111 1011 1100 1011 1101 1101 0010 1100 1011 Lord: 0011 0010 1100 0111 1100 0100 1011 0011 1101 1000 0100 0101 0010 0001 0000 0110 1100 1101 1110 1010 1101 0111 0111 0100 1001 1001 0100 0101 0110 0011 0001 0000 There's one set of numbers in the top and bottom rows of Lord that match exactly, and if I were to write the stat headers out in order (HP, Str, Mag, etc.), that column corresponds to Luck. I've got several theories about what these numbers mean: 1. Growths take up more than one number. 2. I need to perform some sort of operation(s) on the two sets of numbers. 3. Something else influences growths (like the shards did in the original game). 4. These have nothing to do with growths. 5. It's something I haven't thought of yet. All of this is speculation, and I will NOT be happy if it's taken as fact before it's tested! EDIT: Spacing and binary calculation Edited July 15, 2010 by ellipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 Have you found other data BESIDES growths? If so, where? Maybe post all that data (unless the bytes you gave IS all the data, in which case I'm surprised).I could take a crack at it once I'm done with the translation patch, buuuuuut I probably wouldn't be too much help either... It's all in the FE12Data file like the past 3 games. The non-growth data is pretty straightforward (character bases, class bases, caps, item stats etc.); I'm betting you could figure it out in a few minutes. Thanks for the help ellipse. I've also tried using signed decimal numbers, but I still get weird numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 (edited) There's one set of numbers in the top and bottom rows of Lord that match exactly, and if I were to write the stat headers out in order (HP, Str, Mag, etc.), that column corresponds to Luck. The base and growth for Luck are both 0 in the last game. Could this somehow be related? Edit: I'm confused what these numbers are representing. Is it growths only, or growths and bases? Edited July 15, 2010 by Meteor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 They should be just the growths, but I'm not completely sure since I can't read them. The base stats and other details are stored separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irtikliwT Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 (edited) Are the numbers you have there from 0x34 in the uncompressed data file? Are you sure that they're for Marth? 0x20 and 0x24 both point to Marich labels... both are one off the start of the labels which is kind of disconcertening, but 0x18EC and 0x18F0 both point to Marth labels at one off as well. Well, you have more experience with the DS games than me anyway. [EDIT] On reflection, as long as I am allowing the label pointers to be offset, they may just as well be offset 0x20 off as 0x01 off, in which case the 0x20/24 pointers match up to Marth's labels. It does make sense for him to be first anyway. Going to assume this line of inquiry isn't worth looking into further. Maybe they're trying something different this time and not having growths based on 100? Edited July 15, 2010 by T.W.I.L.K.I.T.R.I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 I'm onto something- it looks like the growths are ciphered. Too tired to figure it out today though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 ...ciphered? This all seems beyond me... Have you tried editing the data to see if it affects it? I'd change each value to a random value spread apart (0, 255, 127, etc.) and see what happens when you level up once or twice. It might give some clues. :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted July 16, 2010 Author Share Posted July 16, 2010 (edited) I tried setting Ryan's growths all to 0 and Archer's growths all to 0, and I got 5 lots of Str +2, Def +2 and Res +1 and three lots of Spd +1 in 5 Levels. Well, I think a cipher is involved at least. The possibility occurred to me when ellipse pointed out the values in the Lord class that corresponded to Luck, which were both 46. Classes very rarely have Luck growth, so that value should be 0. Since both Luck growths are meant to be 0, the game probably removes 46 to get the actual growth (using a cipher). However, if you look at different Luck growths for different classes, they all have different values, so it's not that simple. You can also see the cipher in Marth's growths. I'm assuming the second row of numbers, i.e 98 A9 AE A7 BC BD B2 CB are all meant to be 0 for some reason that I've now forgotten. I don't yet know how the subtraction occurs or what numbers mean what growths, but I have pinpointed a number of patterns. Every playable character's second row of growths all fit into the same sequence. 07 +15 1C +1 1D -B 12 +19 2B +5 30 -F 21 +5 26 +19 3F -B 34 +1 35 +15 4A -7 43 +5 48 +11 59 +5 5E -7 (loops back round) 57 +15 Where the first digit is arbitrary, but put there to show which numbers are bigger/smaller. For instance, Marth's numbers from before. 98 A9 AE A7 BC BD B2 CB Aligns with: 8 9 E 7 C D 2 B I also have a pattern that links these sequences between characters. I haven't yet found the pattern for class and growths and My Unit's alteration though. I tried doing some basic subtraction of the numbers, and I get some hit and miss results. Eg. KATARINA HP ST MA SK SP LC DE RE 1ST ROW 5B 0D 41 54 42 47 C9 6E 2ND ROW 0C 0D 02 1B 20 11 16 2F 1ST ROW - 2ND ROW = 4F 00 3F 39 22 36 83 3F Which suggests Katarina's base Magic and Resistance growths are the same. Also she has no base Strength growth. DRAUG HP ST MA SK SP LC DE RE 1ST ROW 9A C3 51 92 A8 C9 C8 F8 2ND ROW 5B 60 51 56 6F 64 65 7A 1ST ROW - 2ND ROW = 3F 63 00 3C 39 65 63 7E Draug appears to have the same base HP growth as Katarina's base Magic/Resistance. I've noticed a few physical units tend to have 7E for their RES, which I'm presuming is something terrible. That's about all I've gotten so far, no clue if I'm on the right track or not. Edited July 16, 2010 by VincentASM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 The problem I see with your results is that they yield growths that aren't divisible by 5. Maybe they decided to break convention, but I would be rather surprised. While I don't have a better algorithm, I doubt the correct one will be incredibly complex. It's strange that they use any clock cycles at all to decode something no one is meant to see in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 I bet they just wanted to make our lives harder and have us play the game like clueless people. Which really sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Well, mostly clueless. At least we know knights are bound to get defense and myrmidons are bound to get speed. XD In all seriousness, things are looking very, very complex. Maybe someone experienced enough can look at how the game actually makes use of the growths? That might be easier than constantly fiddling with it to figure out what to do. Xeld, Nintenlord, and Ryrumeli are options, to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 If nothing else, if it's a consistent cipher, it can be broken through experimentation by running level-up trials over and over until growth rates are determined with certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Or... just running a trace during a level up :/ That's one way. Easiest way, probably, as the game most likely references the growth rates in some manner. But most people around here aren't interested in that sort of stuff anyways so meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterJP28 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 I'm not a hacker but seeing how there are 2 sets for growth could be like how MU is created. You know present and future which I guess affect growths. Just throwing ideas don't quote me on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolt Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Is there any way of hacking the game to force specific numbers? If possible we just start with the number 5 and go up by 5 for every resetted level up, and get it that way. Personally though, I'm just pulling this idea out of nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 (edited) Cecil has growths in everything, including magic and resistance as a cavalier. Just thought I would throw that out there. EDIT: Wrys has defence as a curate. Edited July 17, 2010 by General_Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Can I request both rows of numbers for the following characters: Norne Shiida Bantu Midia Xane There's some digits I want to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolt Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Marth has a growth in Res, I just got a +1 today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Norne 68 90 22 77 F3 6A 75 CD 2C 2D 22 3B 40 31 36 4F Shiida CC 00 44 2E 0A 46 C7 61 D0 C1 C6 DF D4 D5 EA E3 Bantu C1 D5 EA D0 D5 77 FE D4 D4 D5 EA E3 E8 E9 FE F7 Midia 22 51 E7 AF 36 31 47 4F E9 EE E7 FC FD F2 0B 10 Xane 38 7C 75 F9 4C 67 F8 5F F9 FE F7 0C 0D 02 1B 20 Might have copied some values wrong, I'm kind of in a rush right now. I'll upload the Nightmare module for these if anyone wants. If anyone needs the actual data file as well , give me a shout (if you have the ROM, you can extract the files using NDSTool, and then LZZ7-11 decompress the FE12Data.bin file). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 I was actually just about to suggest what Wolt said. Just run every RN for a character until they don't get a level up, and then you now their growth. 'Course, that'll be a problem when orbs and stuff get taken into account as well as growths over 100, but still, it's an option. Maybe it could be hacked so the class growths are all the same as Marth's (0?) to make sure it's not due to the class and rather just the character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.