FE7 character ratings

[dondon151]

:D So like, personally, i would give Dart a lower ranking. Because other than perhaps helping wipe some peggies out in Uhai's chapter and getting Gietz, he would be nothing more than a bench warmer. 4 is a bit generous.

I'm not going to give every outclassed character a 0. The content of the character analysis is far more important than the numerical score.

Edited December 14, 2010 by dondon151

[dondon151]

Ninian, Nils

Advantages

Dance: Depending on player, dancing can be anywhere from the most useless to the most useful form of utility that a unit has to offer. Since our premise is an efficient playthrough, Ninian's dancing is of paramount importance - not only does it shave turns by extending movement ranges and providing extra actions, but it also enables certain strategies that would be entirely impossible otherwise. It would take far too long to fully cover every possible application of dancing, so I'll just cover a few general categories of applications.

Movement - Self-explanatory. Ninian dances a unit and he moves farther. Useful on bosskill and seize maps such as chapters 21 and 28x for that extra push to the target.

Combat - This is useful against bosses. Bosses that are 2RKO'd can be KO'd in the span of just one player phase. Similarly, bosses that are 3RKO'd can be KO'd in the span of one turn. Extra attacks from Ninian's dancing can also potentially account for missed attacks.

Rescue - In the absence of anything else to do, coupling dancing with rescuing is a great way to help advance player units. One extra player phase action means either one extra rescue or one extra drop, which is significant on maps like chapter 28x where the player needs to both rescue units and attempt to maximize their player phase actions.

Staves - Ninian can allow for multiple heals, restores, statuses, Rescues, or Warps from the same unit. Given the limited pool of staff wielding units that the player has to choose from, and the difficulty in sharing staves such as Rescue and Warp, this is important in maps like chapter 29 or 32.

Rings: Unique to dancers in this game are limited-use rings, which bestow a beneficial status on a unit for one turn. The important rings are Ninis's Grace and Filla's Might; Ninis's Grace yields +10 def and +10 res, which makes a unit's enemy phase durability virtually limitless; Filla's Might yields +10 atk, which is useful for bosskilling when Ninian can't directly dance the bosskilling unit. Thor's Ire and Set's Litany are relatively useless and difficult to obtain. Use of these rings is extremely situational, as the opportunity cost for a ring use is Ninian's normal dance, but there are circumstances in efficient play where Ninis's Grace or Filla's Might can increase the reliability of a strategy, particularly where difficult bosses are concerned.

Lyn mode: Nils can likely gain a level in Lyn mode, which slightly improves Ninian's durability.

Disadvantages

Durability: Ninian has an abysmal base 14 HP, 5 def, 4 res in chapter 21. Stronger enemy types like Steel Lance WKs will either OHKO Ninian or be borderline on OHKOing, but Ninian shouldn't be getting attacked at melee range anyway. More pressing concerns are ballistae and long range magic; a chapter 32 sniper has 29 atk at a Killer Ballista, which OHKOs a likely 9/0 Nils (20.8 HP, 7.4 def), and a chapter 29 sage has 30 atk with Bolting, which also OHKOs a likely 8/0 Ninian (19.95 HP, 8.9 res). In the latter case, Pure Water is sufficient for Ninian to avoid an OHKO, but when there are ballistae involved, the only countermeasure is to quickly remove the sniper. Alternatively, one could give Ninian an Angelic Robe in order to let her take a hit.

No offense: Ninian can't counter, but the player shouldn't let her get attacked in circumstances where enemy phase is important.

Mobility: Ninian only has 5 move and takes terrain penalties just like any infantry unit. Naturally, she has trouble keeping up with the army that she's helping to advance, but the player should account for Ninian's movement issues by rescuing her whenever necessary. Ninian is also not a bad investment for the Boots, although Hector does really want them for chapter 30.

Summary

Ninian is, without doubt, one of the largest contributors to low turncounts. Due to her ability, she can technically fill in for any role, whether it's a sixth combat unit or a third staff unit, but she doesn't commit to either role and thus maintains her flexibility. There is be a chapter in the game where Ninian or Nils is not an optimal choice for deployment (so long as there's more than one free unit slot), and regardless of their weaknesses, it is always worth it to attempt to work around them rather than bench Ninian.

Score: 9.5

Isadora

Advantages

Offensive bases: Isadora's 13 str, 16 spd bases are actually a lot better than the offensive parameters of most player units in chapter 22 - it is about the equivalent of a 16/1 Kent, which is out of reach at that point in the game in an efficient playthrough. With a Silver Sword, Isadora has 28 atk after WTA against chapter 22's 29 HP, 11 def Axereaver WKs, a clean ORKO. Isadora is also one of the few units who can naturally double 11 AS unarmed units in chapter 23x, and also one of the few units who can reach 24 atk to 2HKO the most physically defensive 32 HP, 8 def sages on that map. In the long run, 30% str growth doesn't significantly improve a rather average str base, but Isadora has a fairly good 50% spd growth that both gives her more of a spd cushion with which she can trade AS for atk (allowing for easier use of weapons like Axereavers and Killer Axes) and allows her to double faster enemy types later in the game such as 12-13 AS mercenaries in chapter 27.

Mounted: 8 move offers Isadora more liberty to apply her offense whenever and against whomever she wants to. If offense isn't needed, she can also rescue and drop infantry units to aid progression across the map.

Weapon ranks: Isadora's base weapon ranks aren't nearly as impressive as Marcus's, with only A swords, B lances, and D axes, but they're still a major selling point. Given how poor swords are as a primary weapon, it is extremely likely that no unit other than Isadora and Marcus will have A swords at this point in the game; Isadora relies on her Silver Sword to reach some key offensive benchmarks (as described above), and is otherwise fairly unrestricted on what kinds of swords and lances she can wield. D axes prevents her from using important C level axes such as Killer Axes and Swordreavers, but given her poor con, she's not likely to use axes very much in the first place. That said, her axe level isn't very difficult to build in lance-infested maps such as chapter 26.

Weapon triangle: Full weapon triangle control is important for Isadora to compensate for her poor physical durability - -1 atk, -15 hit (or -2 atk, -30 hit in the case of reaver weapons) will significantly increase her survival in extended enemy phase situations.

Prepromoted: Isadora doesn't need a Knight Crest that is highly competed for in order to make use of what she has to offer.

Disadvantages

Physical durability: Isadora's 28 HP, 8 def bases are roughly the equivalent of a 12/0 Kent, but she doesn't have a potential promotion bonus to augment those parameters. However, 70% HP, 20% def growths are good enough to let her stay ahead of enemy offense; at --/5 in chapter 26, Isadora's 31 HP, 8.8 def average is just sufficient to sustain a 3HKO from 23 atk Steel Lance WKs without the aid of WTA.

6 con: Despite having a very nice 16 base spd, Isadora's meager 6 con can drag her AS down to non-doubling levels with most heavier lances and axes. Of particular note is that Isadora loses 2 AS from Silver Swords, which actually prevents her from doubling unarmed enemies in chapter 23 without a spd proc. To compensate for this, Isadora is probably the single best candidate for the chapter 23 Body Ring, as not only is it crucial for her chapter 23x performance, but it also gives her the liberty to comfortably double 6-7 AS Steel Lance WKs with 12 WT Hand Axes and 15 WT Steel Axes. The disadvantage to taking the Body Ring is that Isadora can no longer rescue 13 con and 14 con units, but the only significant ones are unpromoted Hector and Geitz.

Summary

Despite being the fifth (and last) potential paladin to join the team, Isadora has a handful of unique traits that set her apart from the rest. Her high base spd bestows better offense against enemy types that Marcus can't double. Decent base str and superior weapon ranks mean that for a period of time, Isadora outclasses Sain and Kent in every way. By lategame, Isadora's rather average growths will have caught up to her, but she is still more than usable just by virtue of being an 8 move mounted unit with high weapon ranks.

Score: 7.0

Edited December 15, 2010 by dondon151

[Florete]

When I read these, I scroll down just enough so I can read everything but not quite see the score. After reading your Ninian/Nils review, my guess of 9.5 was spot on. However, after reading all your praise of Isadora, I was expecting an 8.0, or at least 7.5. I don't necessarily disagree, but 6.5 seems rather low for how much good you had to say about her.

[Galenforcer]

Wow, and I usually see a lot of people trashing Isadora and sticking with Kent and Sain for paladins. Then again, she is fairly underrated.

[dondon151]

When I read these, I scroll down just enough so I can read everything but not quite see the score. After reading your Ninian/Nils review, my guess of 9.5 was spot on. However, after reading all your praise of Isadora, I was expecting an 8.0, or at least 7.5. I don't necessarily disagree, but 6.5 seems rather low for how much good you had to say about her.

I just raised her score. It's an effect of availability, which I will factor heavily into scores.

[Anouleth]

I don't think Isadora should get a score that low, personally. Consider that this is the same score that was given to Lucius, who only has staves and availability over Isadora's durability, mobility, and not needing a promotion item.

I also think she's one of the premier units in the game to be considered for defensive stat boosters because she has high movement, which means she can make good use of any increased durability (compared to a magic user who will still be stuck on 6 move and is not going to have a great enemy phase no matter what you do).

edit: nvm, you raised her score

Edited December 15, 2010 by Mr. Know-it-all-Anouleth

[dondon151]

Heath

Advantages

Flying: Already covered twice before, in Florina's and Fiora's analyses. Heath can only contribute in chapter 23 and onwards, but he's an important flier due to his offensive and physically defensive niche.

Offense: Compared to the PKs, offense is something that Heath excels at. 13 base str is higher than anything Florina or Fiora could possibly muster in their unpromoted lifetimes. 9 base spd, on the other hand, is actually kind of bad, but Heath only needs 10-11 AS to double most Steel Lance WKs for the rest of the game. Unlike the PKs, Heath's 9 base con means that he won't have to worry about losing AS from important lances (the significant loss is -2 AS with Javelin, which becomes -1 AS after promotion), and for most lances, 7/0 Heath only loses AS by about 2 or 3 points to 11/0 Fiora or 13/0 Florina. Above average offensive growths (50% str, 45% spd) and +2 spd on promotion help make Heath's offense consistent against common enemy types, but unfortunately, his str isn't high enough to secure the 2HKOs that Florina and Fiora miss - as an example, 11/1 Heath has 25 atk on average with a Killer Lance, which is 3 atk short of 2HKOing chapter 26 WKs. Despite coming up short, having higher atk has its advantages; should Heath fail to proc a critical hit and miss an ORKO, it's easier for another unit to secure the KO, and it allows for other minor forms of utility such as ORKOing 34 HP, 7 def valkyries in chapter 29 with a Brave Lance before they get a chance to attack.

Physical durability: This is also a great boon for Heath, as physical durability is a highly valued trait among fliers. Heath's base 32 HP, 11 def is about equivalent to the physical durability parameters of 20/5 Florina or 18/1 Fiora. As an example of what this allows Heath to do, in chapter 23, 7/0 Heath is borderline 3HKO'd by 22 atk Steel Lance WKs, which means that he can survive two attacks from a Steel Lance WK and an attack from an Iron Lance WK, or if he gets 12 def from his HHM bonuses, he is 4HKO'd regardless. In later maps, Heath's ability to survive a higher number of rounds of combat makes him suitable for tasks that involve taking on enemy WKs, like in chapter 26, where visiting the armory and the vendor requires withstanding attacks from 24 atk Steel Lance WKs. Heath, with 40 HP, 12.5 def at 11/2, is more than durable enough to survive three rounds of combat.

Disadvantages

Base level: Heath is 7/0, joining in the tail end of chapter 22. One major implication of this is that he can't be promoted for chapters 23 or 23x, two maps in which Heath really would like +1 move and +2 spd. On the bright side, he at least gains more EXP upon defeating enemies compared to higher leveled player units, but Heath really wants to be promoted as soon as possible for the bonuses.

Resistance: This is not an insurmountable weakness. Despite Heath's extremely poor base 2 res and 20% growth, +2 res on promotion and a Pure Water or Barrier lets Heath absorb magic attacks from unpromoted enemies with ease. In chapter 25, Heath is not afraid of going up against the 12-13 atk Shine monks because at 11/1, he sports 11.8 res on average with a full Pure Water or Barrier boost. Against any promoted enemies, however, Heath is at a significant disadvantage in comparison to the PKs - in chapter 29, 11/5 Heath has 42.4 HP, 12.6 res on average with a full Pure Water or Barrier, but still loses over two-thirds of his HP (29-31 HP) to a combination of a 25 atk Purge and a 30 atk Bolting. Also, while the PKs can get enemy valkyries' staff hit rates to under 10, Heath faces around 40 hit from 15 mag, 11 skl valkyries at a distance of 6 tiles.

Summary

Heath is, at least in the context of this game, a rather unique flier, having the physical durability and offense that the PKs lack. His low res is easy enough to work around with liberal Pure Water and Barrier use, and most of the time, he can do everything that the PKs can and more - one just has to watch out and make sure that he doesn't get berserked or put to sleep in lategame chapters. It's important to feed EXP to Heath whenever possible, as Heath is pretty dependent on promotion to get his AS to a comfortable level.

Score: 8.0

Rath

Advantages

Mounted: Rath is the only mounted bow using unit in the game, so he has a unique niche. Short of long range tomes and ballistae, Rath has the longest attack range in the game with a Longbow, and also hits harder from 2 range than other mounted units with weapons such as the Brave Bow and Killer Bow. He also takes less movement penalties from snow and forests, which makes Rath slightly superior to the paladins for rescuing purposes (although most of the time, the difference is too trivial to matter).

Bow rank: Rath's base bow rank is only C, which is enough to wield Killer Bows without any investment, and with only 10 WEXP and a promotion, Rath can also wield the Brave Bow. At 11/1, Rath has 22 atk on average with the Brave Bow, which cleanly 2HKOs 29 HP, 6 def mercenaries in chapter 24. He also has 13 spd, or 12 AS with a Steel Bow and 28 effective atk, which doubles and ORKOs 6-7 AS WKs. Basically, Rath has access to the right weapons against a lot of different enemy types with virtually no competition.

17 aid: Rath's 17 aid after promotion can rescue any character in the game, which is useful should the player want to move, say, promoted Dorcas, Oswin, or Hawkeye faster. Rath only shares this distinctive property with promoted Eliwood, but Rath can promote earlier and has more move.

Disadvantages

Base level: Rath's base level is 7/0, and it's not going to be much higher coming out of Lyn mode. At 8/0 at best at the tail end of chapter 22, Rath would really like to be promoted for chapter 23x for +1 move Brave Bow access, which means that he needs to be deployed in chapter 23. Being locked to player phase combat isn't good on a rout map, but thanks to Hawkeye, the player shouldn't lose more than one turn at most on that map. Regardless, Rath really does need to promote to leverage his advantages to the fullest extent.

Range lock: Rath is locked to bows before promotion and gains swords upon promotion. Aside from the fact that Rath never really has a reason to use an Iron Sword, being locked to either 1 or 2 range means that Rath does not have the full enemy phase potential that most other mounted units have.

Lyn mode: Rath is one of the few characters whom Lyn mode actually hurts. Rath's normal Hector mode bases are slightly higher at 9/0, but more importantly, he starts with B bows instead of C bows, which means that he no longer needs a promotion for the extra WEXP (though he would still like the bonuses).

Summary

Rath has a few unique traits that make him worth using in a couple of situations, like in chapter 23x where he is one of the few units who can ORKO a 30 HP broken wall. But, being limited to player phase offense only, Rath is just kind of either unnecessary or outclassed in the long run - still, one must give him credit where it's due.

Score: 3.5

[dondon151]

Hawkeye

Advantages

Attack: Hawkeye's 18 base str is nothing short of excellent in chapter 23. With just a Steel Axe, Hawkeye exceeds the 28 atk necessary to cleanly 2HKO 32 HP, 12 def WKs even going into chapter 26. 40% str growth, while rather average, is enough to ensure that Hawkeye can keep up with enemy durability growths; at --/9 going into chapter 29x, Hawkeye will have 32 atk on average with a Killer Axe against 35 HP, 13 def WKs, which is still a clean 2HKO. Hawkeye can also use the Brave Axe to KO enemies without taking a counter, like the 27 atk Luna druids in chapter 29.

Durability: With astounding 50 HP, 14 def, 10 res bases, Hawkeye just simply can't die. In chapter 26, 21 atk Iron Lance WKs (before WTD) require nine rounds of combat to KO --/4 Hawkeye; even 25 atk Steel Lance WKs (before WTD) in chapter 28x 6HKO --/9 Hawkeye's 52.5 HP, 15 def average. Moving ahead to chapter 29, --/10 Hawkeye, with 12.1 res on average, is barely scratched by 13 atk Shine monks, 8HKO'd by 19 atk Thunder mages, and 6HKO'd by 21 atk Nosferatu shamans. With a Pure Water or Barrier, Hawkeye is virtually invincible in this map; even 23 atk Thunder valkyries that double Hawkeye 7RKO him, and a 25 atk Purge and a 30 atk Bolting only combine for 17 HP damage, less than a third of Hawkeye's max HP.

Water and peak walk: There are really only three circumstances where Hawkeye can apply these abilities. In chapter 26, Hawkeye can lure over Vaida while standing on a peak and lowers her hit to 28 displayed at maximum. This allows another unit to safely go shopping at the armory for killer weapons. In chapter 28x, Hawkeye's water walk lets him attack enemy archers on the nearest island on turn 1 and progress through the map without needing to be rescued. In chapter 29, Hawkeye can easily tank the Silver Sword heroes on the map by standing on a peak and equipping a Swordreaver, dropping their hit to at most 11 displayed.

Prepromoted: Hawkeye doesn't require an Ocean Seal, or anything else, for that matter, to be usable.

Critical bonus: Though Hawkeye usually 2HKOs most enemy types anyway, +15 crit helps him OHKO enemies that he can't naturally double. Hawkeye, at --/7 with S axes, has around 57 crit with a Killer Axe.

Disadvantages

Attack speed: This isn't a huge disadvantage, as Hawkeye's base 11 spd is enough to double weighed down Steel Lance WKs for almost the rest of the game, but it does miss slower promoted enemy types like WLs (13 AS), snipers (9-11 AS) and occasionally Luna druids (8-9 AS). 25% spd growth is sufficient for Hawkeye to keep doubling WKs, however, which is what's important, and Hawkeye can still use the Brave Axe to double enemies that he normally cannot.

16 con: Hawkeye can wield any weapon in the game short of the Devil Axe without AS loss, but on the flip side of the coin, he cannot be rescued by any promoted flier, which severely hampers his mobility. Moving Hawkeye quickly generally necessitates deploying Rath (or a promoted Eliwood), and while Rath isn't that bad, there are usually better options for limited deployment slots.

Summary

Hawkeye can claim enough unique niches to be a fairly decent unit for an efficient playthrough, but at the same time, a couple of crippling disadvantages (namely 16 con and 6 move) discourage any sort of frequent use in other circumstances. One should use Hawkeye when his offense, durability, and berserker traits are needed, but as far as mobility is concerned, there's really nothing that one can do to help him there.

Score: 5.5

[dondon151]

Geitz

Advantages

Offense: Hawkeye's offense was good enough, with 18 str, 11 spd at base on top of axes, but Geitz's offense is even better with 19 str, 14 spd at base. Not only does Geitz 2HKO all of the same enemy types that Hawkeye does, but he will have no trouble doubling 9-11 AS snipers and 8-9 AS Luna druids, and with a modest 40% spd growth, Geitz even has a chance at doubling 13 AS WLs by chapter 32 (he needs to be around --/10).

Weapon ranks: Geitz starts with B ranks in both axes and bows, which lets him use pretty much anything for all intents and purposes. Using either a Brave Axe or Brave Bow for 29 atk at base, Geitz can 2HKO promoted magic users (the toughest being 36 HP, 9 def sages in chapter 32) before they can attack him; he can also use either weapon to double enemies that he can't normally double. Additionally, access to the Brave Bow lets Geitz do significant damage to tougher enemy types like heroes without taking a counter.

Prepromoted: Geitz doesn't require a highly demanded Hero Crest in order to perform at maximum potential.

Disadvantages

Resistance: Geitz has just 4 base res and a 20% res growth. Although a Pure Water or Barrier significantly softens the blows from unpromoted enemies, at --/8, Geitz takes 31/48 HP damage on average from a 25 atk Purge and a 30 atk Bolting in chapter 29, and 23 atk Thunder valkyries double and 3RKO him. Geitz is also particularly susceptible to status staves, facing around 45 hit with a full +7 res boost against a 15 mag, 11 skl enemy at a distance of 6 tiles.

Recruitment cost: Geitz can only be recruited in Linus's version of chapter 24, which is accompanied with a couple of significant problems. First, the player's lords' total levels must be equal to or greater than 50 in order to go to that map, which is virtually impossible in an efficient playthrough (a fact exacerbated by Lyn and Eliwood being bad units). Second, Lloyd's version of chapter 24 only requires 2 turns to complete, whereas Linus's version requires many more. It's not really recruiting Geitz that's inefficient as much as it is going to the map where he can be recruited that's inefficient, but there's no other way to get him, so...

Summary

Offensively, Geitz is a great unit, but unlike Hawkeye, he doesn't really bring much else to the table. His mobility is only average, and he's also kind of a liability on maps with enemy status staff users. Perhaps the biggest impediment to his performance, however, is the fact that it's just plain impossible, if not highly undesirable turncount-wise, to recruit him. I'm going to ignore that for his numerical rating, though, but please just keep in mind that on an efficient playthrough, one will likely never see Geitz.

Score: 5.0

Wallace

Advantages

Physical durability: With 34 HP, 17 def at base, Wallace just doesn't die... unless he's continuously under fire from a 29 atk Iron Ballista sniper. Regardless, 24 atk Steel Lance WKs (before WTD) in chapter 26, which are among the strongest unpromoted enemy types in the game atk-wise, 6HKO Wallace at base.

Disadvantages

Attack speed: Wallace has just 8 spd at base. With a measly 20% spd growth, Wallace is never going to reach the magic 11 AS needed to double WKs, although he does double really slow unpromoted enemies like knights and Nosferatu shamans... but, like, anyone can double those.

Mobility: As a promoted class, Wallace has 5 move, the worst in the game for a promoted class. There's no way Wallace is going to see combat without significant rescuing assistance.

15 con: Not as bad as Oswin's 16 promoted con, but relying on Eliwood, Priscilla, Florina, Heath, or Rath for transport instead of the numerous potential paladins is a further restriction on mobility.

Lyn mode: Wallace's normal Hector mode bases are actually slightly higher than his promoted Lyn mode bases. Additionally, some players, in order to finish with more assets in Lyn mode (and thus a more valuable gem in Lyn's starting inventory in chapter 16), will choose not to promote Wallace, and this causes him to start with his 12/0 stats in chapter 24.

Recruitment cost: Lloyd's chapter 24 can be completed in 2 turns, but Wallace requires around 6 turns to recruit. Not only that, but there is a significant chance of Wallace dying before he can be recruited anyway, as the Iron Ballista sniper does 12 HP damage every turn and Shine monks also do around 6 HP damage per attack to Wallace.

Summary

Utterly useless. Don't bother with him. Wallace's sole advantage isn't really even an advantage when Hawkeye is better at tanking attacks.

Score: 0.0

Edited December 17, 2010 by dondon151

[Colonel M]

I'm not going to lie. Even before I played somewhat efficiently, I struggled to get lords up to Level 50, primarily because I fucking hated Eliwood. Now looking at it differently, it is perhaps the most retarded requirement I've ever heard of.

What

The

Fuck IS?

[Anouleth]

I'm not going to lie. Even before I played somewhat efficiently, I struggled to get lords up to Level 50, primarily because I fucking hated Eliwood. Now looking at it differently, it is perhaps the most retarded requirement I've ever heard of.

What

The

Fuck IS?

It's hardly the most ridiculous requirement in FE history. It's only difficult for you because you play extremely fast, I found it quite easy. Compared to the likes of Karla, Stefan, Lehran, or FE9 Shinon, he's actually quite simple.

[Florete]

15 con: Not as bad as Oswin's 16 promoted con, but relying on Eliwood, Florina, Heath, or Rath for transport instead of the numerous potential paladins is a further restriction on mobility.

And Priscilla.

I'm not going to lie. Even before I played somewhat efficiently, I struggled to get lords up to Level 50, primarily because I fucking hated Eliwood. Now looking at it differently, it is perhaps the most retarded requirement I've ever heard of.

What

The

Fuck IS?

I found it tough my first time on HHM, but I find it easy nowadays (though it's not like I play for maximum efficiency). I guess it's a lot easier when Hector and Lyn level cap before it.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Sadistic Fox

[Charpig]

I'm not going to lie. Even before I played somewhat efficiently, I struggled to get lords up to Level 50, primarily because I fucking hated Eliwood. Now looking at it differently, it is perhaps the most retarded requirement I've ever heard of.

What

The

Fuck IS?

I don't think it's that retarded, the other alternate route (for Pale Flower of Darkness) depends on the EXP gain of certain units. Genesis has an EXP requirement for the chapter directly before it, 19xx has a level requirement for Nils, and recruiting Karla requires Bartre to reach a certain level.

Finally, someone gets a flat out 0. Cool stuff. I'm curious to see how the remaining units get rated.

[dondon151]

It's hardly the most ridiculous requirement in FE history. It's only difficult for you because you play extremely fast, I found it quite easy. Compared to the likes of Karla, Stefan, Lehran, or FE9 Shinon, he's actually quite simple.

Karla is much easier than Geitz. You have more chapters and only need to gain a total of 12 levels on Bartre.

I have to agree with CM on this one. Chapter 19xx is even worse, but everything else is easy in comparison. It's simple to manipulate EXP gain for chapter 27 (my magic units went from a 600 EXP deficit to a 200 EXP surplus in like 2 chapters), chapter 23x requires losing only one turn at most, etc.

Edited December 17, 2010 by dondon151

[Colonel M]

Well okay, there's Xavier which actually stands as the most ridiculous, but still... Level 40 would've been more generous.

Compared to the likes of Karla, Stefan, Lehran, or FE9 Shinon, he's actually quite simple.

Those aren't that hard.

Fun fact: Though Bartre has to be Level --/5 to meet Karla, he can survive 2 blows from Karla at base with Hoplon Guard and Swordreaver, which only requires swinging the axe a bit. A --/5 unit getting blocked by a Level 2 unpromoted unit is pretty sad. Bartre climbing levels isn't that difficult.

Stefan also isn't too hard, though yes it costs a couple more turns than normal. Lethe starts transformed in a chapter and, IIRC, has full move in the desert. Even if she doesn't, you can have someone drop her off in one of the spots. FE10 Stefan isn't too bad either since Micaiah has full move.

Lehran requires beating the game once, like Pelleas. Still, you have to beat NM to get HM, so it's not a big deal. Just card BK and get the fuck out. Soren being revealed as Ashnard's heir is harder than that.

FE9 Shinon... I admit that is retarded.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Tyranel M

[Narga_Rocks]

I found it tough my first time on HHM, but I find it easy nowadays (though it's not like I play for maximum efficiency). I guess it's a lot easier when Hector and Lyn level cap before it.

(@bold I'm guessing there is supposed to be a not there.)

Yeah, first (and only) time I played HHM it was extremely easy to go Geitz. Of course, there was a little fruit on my shoulder commanding that I train Eliwood.

Lyn came out of LHM at level 10+ (I'm not actually certain if she reached 11, but she started chapter 10 at 10). Probably capped before the Geitz chapter, actually. I just had a tough time dealing with the swarms of reinforcements that never seem to leave me alone so it's no surprise that they got to a high enough level easily. With Hector and Lyn level-capped Eliwood only needs to be level 10. I think maybe I had 20/17/14 or something for them though, probably. With Eliwood being the low one. Actually, he wasn't even level 20 when the second Heaven Seal appeared. Lyn had been level 20 before the first one even showed up. I waited until the chapter after I got the second seal to promote Eliwood I think. My turncounts sucked, but I'd be surprised if the majority of people are even 5 starring tactics on their first try, let alone accomplishing dondon-level turndounts.

[Florete]

(@bold I'm guessing there is supposed to be a not there.)

Urgh. Why do I tend to leave out 'not' rather often?

[Colonel M]

Urgh. Why do I tend to leave out 'not' rather often?

Secret confessions?

It's okay, I knew what you meant.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well okay, there's Xavier which actually stands as the most ridiculous, but still... Level 40 would've been more generous.

Those aren't that hard.

Fun fact: Though Bartre has to be Level --/5 to meet Karla, he can survive 2 blows from Karla at base with Hoplon Guard and Swordreaver, which only requires swinging the axe a bit. A --/5 unit getting blocked by a Level 2 unpromoted unit is pretty sad. Bartre climbing levels isn't that difficult.

Stefan also isn't too hard, though yes it costs a couple more turns than normal. Lethe starts transformed in a chapter and, IIRC, has full move in the desert. Even if she doesn't, you can have someone drop her off in one of the spots. FE10 Stefan isn't too bad either since Micaiah has full move.

Lehran requires beating the game once, like Pelleas. Still, you have to beat NM to get HM, so it's not a big deal. Just card BK and get the fuck out. Soren being revealed as Ashnard's heir is harder than that.

FE9 Shinon... I admit that is retarded.

Are we talking recruitment pains?

FE4 and FE5 are great at recruitment pains. Like you said, Xavier. He's probably the king of annoying recruitments. Ayra's tough but isn't actually all that difficult if you know what you are doing. Jamka is rather annoying if you want to go quickly. If you are okay with slow then it's not impossible to manipulate it so that he can't actually attack you at all before the chat. Hannibal is rather annoying but if you have a sleep staff handy he's not actually difficult anyway. The stars he gives to those nearby him are more annoying than trying to not kill him. Those three are still more annoying individually than Lehran + Stefan + Karla + Geitz combined. Only Shinon even competes, but since you have Reyson you can talk and kill on the same turn before he even moves. And he can't even counter when Ike kills him at 1 range. Ayra can randomly KO anyone you send to distract her except for Alec and he's generally two rounded so you've gotta be quick since there is no Libro yet and he can't self heal. Best to try to distract her without letting her fight anyone.

Douglas (I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned) in fe6 is a unit that is overrated in recruitment difficulty. There are lots of ways to occupy him during the chapter in which he is an enemy, but my favourite is a low str high spd unit that can use swords tinking him repeatedly with iron. You can even use slim if nobody is weak enough to tink his manly 20 def (though that's not as great an idea if the sword user in question has 19 or more str since a crit can do more than iron was doing). Of course, since 14 str will tink with iron and 16 str will tink with slim, it's not all that hard to find someone that will 100% leave Douglas alive while facing like 5 to 10 listed hit.

[Colonel M]

Haven't really played FE4 and 5, so I can't say much. I always lost interest with 5 in the prison chapter and... 4 was... um... I dunno how to describe it.

Only Shinon even competes, but since you have Reyson you can talk and kill on the same turn before he even moves. And he can't even counter when Ike kills him at 1 range.

The bigger issue, IMO, is the Sages with the seige tomes, though you have Pure Waters for that I guess. Good thing their AS is non-existent.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Tyranel M

[Florete]

Only Shinon even competes, but since you have Reyson you can talk and kill on the same turn before he even moves.

Maybe it's different on HM, but on my recent transfer run he ran right up to Rolf without doing a thing, even when there were two others he could have attacked. Is this possibility being taken into account?

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm too paranoid to ever try that. Most of the time even if I think that an enemy won't move, I assume they will anyway. Like with some bosses. Anything not on a throne I pretty much assume will come running even if it won't, so when I first approach I'm cautious.

If he really won't attack you then that's awesome (perhaps it only holds true if Rolf is on the map or if he can reach Rolf or something). You might be able to draw him away from at least one of the siege tome mages so that even an untrained Rolf might be able to manage. I just make use of rescuing with a mount and Reyson's 4 person vigor if I'm concerned about him surviving.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anouleth]

Well okay, there's Xavier which actually stands as the most ridiculous, but still... Level 40 would've been more generous.

Those aren't that hard.

Fun fact: Though Bartre has to be Level --/5 to meet Karla, he can survive 2 blows from Karla at base with Hoplon Guard and Swordreaver, which only requires swinging the axe a bit. A --/5 unit getting blocked by a Level 2 unpromoted unit is pretty sad. Bartre climbing levels isn't that difficult.

Stefan also isn't too hard, though yes it costs a couple more turns than normal. Lethe starts transformed in a chapter and, IIRC, has full move in the desert. Even if she doesn't, you can have someone drop her off in one of the spots. FE10 Stefan isn't too bad either since Micaiah has full move.

Lehran requires beating the game once, like Pelleas. Still, you have to beat NM to get HM, so it's not a big deal. Just card BK and get the fuck out. Soren being revealed as Ashnard's heir is harder than that.

FE9 Shinon... I admit that is retarded.

My point was more that without someone telling you exactly how to get these characters, it might as well be impossible. Sure, it's easy for us since we used the internet to figure out how to do it, but I think it's ridiculous that we should be expected to figure out this sort of thing on our own.

My main beef with Shinon is that he forces me to deploy Rolf. I hate Rolf.

[Radiant Dragon]

Aside from the obvious 'Guide Dang it' concerning FE9 Stefan, he doesn't slow you down unless you're ORKOing Muarim. He attacks last, I believe, so Marcia may very well kill those tigers if you rely on the Enemy Phase.

I recruit him on turn 3, which gives Volke time to grab Physic and the Boots while Sothe gets the items on the left (Guard, Silver Blade and Shine) right before Marcia finishes Muarim.

[dondon151]

Might as well do another quick one.

Farina

Advantages

Flying: Covered many times already. Farina only really gets 5 maps in which her flying utility is useful, but of them, chapters 28x and 32 are heavily demanding of flying utility even if there are already three or four other available flying units. She also does well in chapter 29.

Resistance: Farina's 14 base res (after promotion bonuses) already ties 12/6 Fiora's average res, which naturally means that Farina has the highest res of the PKs. Essentially, with a Pure Water or Barrier boost, Farina is invincible against unpromoted magic units and status effects (so long as they're not coming from 27 mag, 14 skl druids). Promoted magic units don't hurt much either, with 23 atk Thunder valkyries doubling and still 8RKOing (at best) 12/3 Farina's 30.5 HP, 21.6 res at a full +7 Pure Water.

Disadvantages

Offense: Farina's base offensive parameters, which are 10 str, 14 spd, are actually slightly worse than 13/0 Fiora or 14/0 Florina, who also have around 10 str on average but around 16 spd. Though Farina's 50% str growth is the best among the PKs, it'll take around 10 levels for her str to beat Florina's by one point on average, so for all intents and purposes, they are tied in atk for their entire existences. The AS loss is somewhat significant; it prevents 12/3 Farina from doubling 7-8 AS enemies with a Javelin or Axereaver (e.g. 8 AS Hand Axe pirates, 7-8 AS Steel Lance WKs in chapter 28x) and 9-10 AS enemies with a Killer Lance (e.g. 10 AS Thunder mages in chapter 29), but the consequences of not being able to double these enemies with the specified weapon types is almost zero.

Physical durability: Farina has a fairly decent 10 base def, which increases to 12 def upon promotion, but a lackluster base 24 HP (29 HP after promotion) still makes her prone to being 3HKO'd by the same enemy types that Florina and Fiora are 3HKO'd by, namely, 25 atk Steel Lance WKs.

Recruitment cost: Farina costs the player 20000 G in cash to recruit. With the amount of money that the game provides, this isn't actually a big deal, and the cost can be covered by selling the Ocean Seal, Heaven Seals, etc. Farina also requires the player to clear chapter 25 in 6 turns maximum, while the map can be normally cleared in 3 turns.

Summary

One might think that a fourth or fifth flier is redundant, but a couple of lategame maps are really heavily demanding of flying utility. It remains to be seen, however, if Farina can cover her 3 turn recruitment cost with her contributions, so I will not factor her recruitment cost into her numerical score. Her bases are slightly inferior to the stats of either of her trained sisters, but she can pull her weight without any previous EXP investment, which leaves the player free to divert EXP from one of the other PKs to another unit.

Score: 6.0