Efficiency playlog

[Anouleth]

I used Rescue to ensure that Ike cleared the top section of the map on Turn 1 and engaged Ashnard turn 2.

[Xander]

Are you using wrath resolve Ike? If so you should rescue reyson so he can vigor a flier who's ferrying Ike in endgame so he can engage Ashnard on turn 1 and finish him off on turn 2.

[aku chi]

Are you using wrath resolve Ike? If so you should rescue reyson so he can vigor a flier who's ferrying Ike in endgame so he can engage Ashnard on turn 1 and finish him off on turn 2.

If you're lucky...

[Radiant Dragon]

Relying on a 2 turn clear of Endgame is pretty chancy, but there's nothing wrong with using Wrath/Resolve for a more reliable 3 or 4 turn clear.

[Xander]

Not very good at math.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Xanderdog

[Radiant Dragon]

A strategy that only has a 25% chance to succeed is a bad strategy, no matter how you try and justify it.

[Lord Raven]

What would you say about a 25% one turn strategy then?

[Radiant Dragon]

What would you say about a 25% one turn strategy then?

A strategy that only has a 25% chance to succeed is a bad strategy, no matter how you try and justify it.

I despise having to rely on an Adept or critical or whatever to complete a chapter.

[Lord Raven]

I'd say it's different to rely on exactly one 25% hit as opposed to relying on a bunch of 50% hits. I wouldn't say it's a bad strategy, since there are a bunch of uncertainties for already efficient strategies, but... My 2 turn of C15 didn't have a Laguz Lance so I had to rely on one of two 29% critical hits against Muarim -- that has a 50% chance of succeeding but it is not a terrible strategy.

[Xander]

A strategy that only has a 25% chance to succeed is a bad strategy, no matter how you try and justify it.

Incorrect. It's not a bad strategy if it's the only possible strategy.

Also, If you're talking about the 2 turn strategy for Endgame (Which I'm assuming you are since you probably saw 25% and my name and didn't bother looking for any mistakes) it actually has a ~37.5% chance of success, surprised no one caught my mistake there (2 wrath crits in resolve range in 4 attacks). I'm not sure if the skill bonus from resolve factors into crit (though I'm assuming it doesn't), but if it did it would be something around a ~50% chance of success. If Ike has Reyson support and Reyson survives turn 1 to vigor him, you can even increase those odds further by attacking Ashnard on player phase and rescuing Reyson out of harm's way, resulting in no need whatsoever for a second crit. I'd say it's a pretty good strategy.

I'd say it's different to rely on exactly one 25% hit as opposed to relying on a bunch of 50% hits. I wouldn't say it's a bad strategy, since there are a bunch of uncertainties for already efficient strategies, but... My 2 turn of C15 didn't have a Laguz Lance so I had to rely on one of two 29% critical hits against Muarim -- that has a 50% chance of succeeding but it is not a terrible strategy.

I'm inclined to agree with you. A ~50% is not a bad strategy.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Xanderdog

[Lord Raven]

The Skill bonus does factor into crit... i'm like 90% sure. It just isn't a large factor, considering it's like a +6 or 7 at best.

Oh, how rude of me to not answer your question -- yeah I'm doing Wrath/Resolve Ike. I think Elincia can use the Rescue staff though, she probably is the best candidate... if it's not too out of my way then it shouldn't be a big deal to have someone get it in C20.

And even if Elincia doesn't have enough Magic to properly Rescue Reyson, I can just shove him around since he's so light. But that's thinking *way* ahead.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Lord Raven]

Chapter 19

Turncount: 3/108

Preparations:

-- Skills: Ike has Wrath, Boyd and Makalov lose Tempest, Marcia gets Shade (so things get out of her way and onto my other units instead)

-- Marcia/Tanith C, Tormod/Reyson C, Astrid/Makalov C

-- +5 Mt +25 Hit Javelin for Marcia

-- BEXP:

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Jill      01.00+ 36  20   4  20  17   8  18   4
Kieran    01.00+ 38  19   5  16  18  10  17   4
Makalov   19.00  34  15   2  12  18   9  15   3
Soren     17.96  26   2  18  20  15  11   3  17
Tormod    15.00  26   2  16  13  12  12   7  11

Remaining: 0

(I gave Kieran Lances so he'd deal with Myrmidons/Swordmasters better)

I'll be getting the Knight Ring -- the BEXP for not killing the crows is nice.

Deployed: Ike, Boyd, Marcia, Soren, Oscar, Jill, Tormod, Astrid, Makalov, Tanith, Reyson, Kieran, Janaff

Easy chapter. Took two tries of trial&error but my 3-turn with Knight Band and Crows escaping worked out. Marcia had to move forward two spaces so Reyson could Chant her and she could take out an Archer at a Ballista. From there, she moved into position (full guard and everything) for Naesala to activate Vortex. This allows Janaff to talk to him on Turn 2, and he takes to Reyson during the EP of Turn 2 and then Marcia is FULLY capable of taking out the boss in one round. 97%, 20 dmg x2 with a Javelin. It's just a matter of the Crows not suiciding into someone (namely the one near the beginning of the map).

The map can easily be 2 turned without the Crows.

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       02.10+ 45  20   7  19  19  14  18  10
Boyd      01.87+ 46  20   1  14  18   8  10   9
Marcia    09.51  41  23   9  23  25  15  14  20
Soren     18.47  26   2  19  20  15  11   3  18
Jill      01.26+ 36  20   4  20  17   8  18   4
Tormod    15.60  26   2  16  13  12  12   7  11
Astrid    02.64+ 34  17   7  23  21  12  17  12
Makalov   19.38  34  14   2  12  18   9  15   3
Tanith    10.01+ 32  16  10  18  24  18  15  13
Reyson    03.90+ 22   1  15  14  18  15   3  25
Oscar     02.37+ 37  20   4  18  19   7  17   6
Kieran    01.34+ 38  19   5  16  18  10  17   4
Janaff    08.08+ 39  13   5  15  17  16  11  10

BEXP: 540/540

Edited August 21, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[aku chi]

I'm inclined to agree with you. A ~50% is not a bad strategy.

Anyway you slice it, a ~50% strategy is not reliable. And if ~50% of the time you fail the chapter (by losing Ike in this case), I would certainly call it a bad strategy. If, on the other hand, ~50% of the time you merely extend the chapter a turn or two, and there are no reliable strategies that clear it faster, that would make it a good, but unreliable, strategy. Now, as I understand it, the Wrath/Resolve 2-turn Endgame strategy involves both a risk of Ike dying (if all of the enemies and Ashnard hit Ike) and a risk of surviving but extending the chapter (if Ike doesn't get hit enough to drop into Resolve range, Ike doesn't crit Ashnard, or Ike doesn't both hit and crit Berserk Ashnard).

So I'd be inclined to label the Wrath/Resolve 2-turn Endgame strategy as both risky and unreliable. It is reproducible enough for LTC runs but not in the realm of what I consider efficient (mostly because of the chance of death).

[Lord Raven]

A strategy that relies on one 50% factor or an overall 50% factor is not a bad strategy considering a bunch of strategies as is have a bunch of numbers and statistics that end up becoming a 50% chance anyway.

[Radiant Dragon]

Anyway you slice it, a ~50% strategy is not reliable. And if ~50% of the time you fail the chapter (by losing Ike in this case), I would certainly call it a bad strategy. If, on the other hand, ~50% of the time you merely extend the chapter a turn or two, and there are no reliable strategies that clear it faster, that would make it a good, but unreliable, strategy.

I agree with this 100%. I believe there's a fundamental difference between efficiency runs and LTC runs, and that difference is reliability.

[Lord Raven]

... then how are defining efficiency? I feel like the definition changes like every five seconds to suit someone's argument.

[RNG Princess]

Whats LTC strategy?

I like your team Merc_Raven and nice strategies. I haven't played this game in a long time but I remember Jill and Marcia obliterate everything.

IMO efficiency should be safe, reliable, quick, and cheap.

Quick as in not many restarts should happen for the strategy to succeed but not taking it slowly either.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[Lord Raven]

I think quick applies to a 2-turn 50% clear. But thanks! (LTC is low turn count..?)

Anyways,

Chapter 20

Turncount: 2/107

Preparations

-- Marcia/Kieran B, Tanith/Reyson C

-- BEXP:

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Makalov   01.00+ 37  18   4  15  20  10  18   6
Soren     19.00  27   2  20  20  16  11   4  19
Tormod    18.00  27   3  18  14  13  14   8  13

Remaining: 85

Units deployed: Ike, Marcia, Oscar, Jill, Tormod, Makalov, Boyd, Reyson, Mordecai, Muarim, Kieran

Boss kill relied on a Killer Lance critical (~64% chance of success because it was 40% x2) and Tormod connecting with a 75% Meteor hit to get rid of the 1 HP he had left. Straightforward chapter otherwise, it took a bunch of attempts but I basically had Mordecai/Muarim Shove and Smite Jill and then I had Jill and Marcia go east. Jill has a forged Hand Axe so she ends up doing enough damage to the Wyverns to kill most of them or get them out of the way. Either that, or they go and attack Ike and Makalov retrieve the Smite scroll.

Tormod had to Meteor the Wyvern out of Jill's way, then I had to Canto Tormod so he could wipe out Shiharam.

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       02.64+ 45  20   7  19  19  14  18  10
Oscar     03.16+ 38  21   4  18  20   7  18   6
Boyd      02.14+ 47  21   1  14  19   8  10   9
Marcia    09.67+ 41  23   9  23  25  15  14  20
Mordecai  02.21+ 41  22   2  12  11  10  16   7
Kieran    02.07+ 39  20   5  17  19  10  17   5
Jill      01.91+ 36  20   4  20  17   8  18   4
Makalov   01.45+ 37  18   4  15  20  10  18   6
Tormod    18.95  27   3  18  14  13  14   8  13
Muarim    09.09+ 45  23   4  17  18  11  15   8
Reyson    04.10+ 22   1  15  14  18  15   3  25

BEXP: 400/485

Also... 6 turns for Chapter 21 is looking likely for me. :(

EDIT: I figured out the 6-turn strategy and how to position Ike relative to Tauroneo (recruiting him helps A LOT) but it's a matter of getting the one Wrath crit I need on Ena. I also get an Energy Drop in those six turns.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Lord Raven]

Chapter 21

Turncount: 6/113+

Preparations

-- Oscar/Kieran A, Tormod/Reyson C

-- Smite to Muarim

-- BEXP:

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Tormod    01.00+ 31   2  19  18  17  15  12  16
Soren     01.00+ 32   4  21  22  19  11   6  22
Ike       03.00+ 46  20   7  20  19  14  19  10

Remaining: 25

Units deployed: Marcia, Astrid, Oscar, Kieran, Jill, Tormod, Ike, Muarim, Boyd, Reyson, Volke, Mordecai, Lethe

Wow so fuck this chapter. God i hated every moment of it, I had to restart it like 50 times because it was just a fucking terrible chapter.

Anyways, my 6 turn is something I'm satisfied with to some extent (I've heard of a 4 turn clear of this shit but I doubt I'd be able to make it possible as it currently stands). On turn 1, I had a bunch of weird shove strategies which amounted to Lethe shoving Marcia to the right and Muarim smiting her upwards. I did some weird stuff with Reyson and Mordecai to make this possible, and I put Mordecai in such a spot where he could Smite her once on Turn 2. Ike was rescued by Marcia this entier time, equipped with a Knight Ring and he had a Laguzguard to fight Ena with; he used a Pure Water before Marcia rescued him.

Turn 2, I took out a soldier in my way with Tormod and Mordecai Smited her to the left twice, Lethe Shoved her upwards once, and then Muarim smited her upwards. Then I took Marcia around and into the water. (By the way, if you're in the water, Tauroneo and his crew won't come out, which was integral to my 6 turn). Then I basically sent everyone upwards and I sent Tormod as far up as possible just in case he'd be able to damage the Mage or Sage enough for a Bishop to heal them (instead of Sleeping Ike) but this didn't happen. I also moved my mounted units upwards to clear the way for Volke so Volke could nab the Energy Drop on Turn 6.

Turn 3, I take Marcia to the west and I drop Ike two spaces to the right and one space down from Tauroneo. This allows all of Tauroneo's armors to attack him and allows Marcia to clear some of the Steel Lance armors. Everyone else still charges north. Ike has to dodge the Sleep staff and one of the Armors for this to work.

Turn 4, Marcia kills the Bishop and Cantos north. Ike talks to Tauroneo and Cantos north. Tauroneo kills a Mage with his Silver Blade. The rest of the units charge north some more.

Turn 5 I break down the door and Astrid kills the Sage (after some Cantoing and some other stuff) while Kieran and Oscar take care of all the armors and Bishops to the west. Tormod is still kicking some ass, and I equip Ike with a Beorcguard and Laguzslayer and park him in front of Ena (he only takes 8 damage from her on enemy phase and at this point he had 11 HP). On this enemy phase I have to have Ike Wrath crit Ena (he can survive one Ena Breath and one Short Spear on this turn thanks to the Laguzguard) and this brings her down to 13 HP.

Turn 6, Marcia kills Ena with a Javelin (9x2 damage), Volke gets the Energy Drop and Ike seizes. I guess these shitty level ups are just gods way of saying "fuck you" :(

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       03.71+ 46  20   7  20  19  14  19  10
Marcia    10.41+ 41  23   9  23  25  15  14  20
Oscar     05.08+ 39  22   4  18  21   8  18   6
Jill      03.50+ 36  21   5  21  17   8  18   4
Tormod    02.72+ 31   5  20  19  18  15  12  16
Reyson    04.70+ 22   1  15  14  18  15   3  25
Muarim    09.25+ 45  23   4  17  18  11  15   8
Kieran    02.98+ 39  20   5  17  19  10  17   5
Boyd      02.41+ 47  21   1  14  19   8  10   9
Astrid    04.04+ 34  18   7  23  22  13  18  12
Volke     01.01+ 27  14   1  16  15   7   9   5
Mordecai  02.21+ 41  22   2  12  11  10  16   7
Lethe     03.38+ 34  18   4  14  15  15  14  10
Tauroneo  14.33+ 48  22  11  18  13  14  22  14

BEXP: 400/425

Chapter 22

Turncount: 2/115

Preparations:

-- Energy Drop used on Jill

-- BEXP

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       04.03+ 46  21   7  20  20  15  19  10
Jill      05.00+ 37  24   5  23  19   9  20   4
Kieran    03.00+ 40  21   5  18  20  10  18   5
Tormod    03.00+ 32   5  20  20  18  15  13  17
Astrid    06.00+ 36  19   8  23  24  14  19  13

Remaining: 9

Units deployed: Ike, Marcia, Oscar, Jill, Tormod, Reyson, Muarim, Kieran, Boyd, Astrid, Mordecai

Simple as shit. Thank God for this chapter. Basically, I killed the two Fighters with Tormod and Marcia, then someone Rescued tormod (and someone else dropped him) so Mordecai and Muarim could shove the two Priests and Boyd could shove the Bishop to the left. This left an opening, so I sent Astrid in to kill whatever was there.

On Turn 2, I killed the Warrior with Astrid, Boyd/Kieran tag teamed an Archer (Oscar missed once) and Ike killed the other Archer. This gave Jill and Marcia an opening to get the boss down to 5 HP. I then had Tormod Meteor the boss and the chapter ended.

Tormod had a 2% chance of OHKOing the boss, 12% with Muarim Bond. I should've done that but oh well, I like 25% and all but 12% (on top of a hit rate that changes a lot, considering the Biorhythm made it anywhere between 60 something and 80-90 something) is pushing it.

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       04.18+ 46  21   7  20  20  15  19  10
Marcia    10.61+ 41  23   9  23  25  15  14  20
Oscar     05.15+ 39  22   4  18  21   8  18   6
Jill      05.14+ 37  24   5  23  19   9  20   4
Tormod    03.85+ 32   5  20  20  18  15  13  17
Reyson    04.90+ 22   1  15  14  18  15   3  25
Muarim    09.26+ 45  23   4  17  18  11  15   8
Kieran    03.18+ 40  21   5  18  20  10  18   5
Boyd      02.41+ 47  21   1  14  19   8  10   9
Astrid    07.18+ 37  19   8  23  25  15  19  13
Mordecai  02.22+ 41  22   2  12  11  10  16   7

BEXP: 720/729

Edited August 22, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Radiant Dragon]

Nice job on Chapter 21. I'll probably take that chapter pretty leisurely, since I hate playing it.

[Lord Raven]

go to the next page

Edited August 22, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[aku chi]

Chapter 23

Turncount: 6/121

I don't see how I could've improved other than manipulating the fuck out of Marcia dodging everything as well as Reyson dodging a ballista and a bunch of enemies, but I feel like I could've saved a turn *somewhere*. I'm done with FE for the night anyway, I made a save state and now I'm waiting on possible criticism.

You could have saved two turns if I'm not mistaken. My preference is to use a laguz stone on Reyson here and rescue/take/drop Reyson forward so I can use him each turn. The key then becomes killing any ballista operators or other enemies that could kill Reyson. I see your Sages have 21 Magic. If they have enough +Atk supports, they can OHKO some of the Ballista operators with Bolting (they need at least 36 Atk). Since Marcia got your Boots, she's also an excellent candidate to move ahead a little and kill the Ballista operators (who pose the greatest threat to advancing Reyson). Then again, your Reyson doesn't have the Boots, so maybe a 4-turn clear is out of reach.

By the way, you seem to be employing a lot of low-chance strategies and reseting a hell of a lot for an "efficiency run".

Edited August 22, 2011 by aku chi

[dondon151]

By the way, you seem to be employing a lot of low-chance strategies and reseting a hell of a lot for an "efficiency run".

Why is this a problem? It's probably far less than what most draft players do.

[aku chi]

Why is this a problem? It's probably far less than what most draft players do.

I can't imagine anything less efficient than restarting the whole chapter over again (well, boss abuse is a contender).

With respect to draft play, I am of the opinion that one loses 12 honor points each time one resets the game. I personally refuse to partake in drafts that don't penalize or at least heavily discourage reseting. I recognize that some people feel differently.

FYI: 12 honor points ~= 6 respect points.

[Radiant Dragon]

Why is this a problem? It's probably far less than what most draft players do.

Drafts are strictly low-turncount runs though, where as efficiency runs (in my opinion) should use strategies that are more consistent. Again, this is a matter of opinion, and I'm fully aware that aku chi and I may be the only ones that think this way.

This isn't to say that I'm trying to tell Raven how to play the game. I'm only stating where I stand.

With respect to draft play, I am of the opinion that one loses 12 honor points each time one resets the game. I personally refuse to partake in drafts that don't penalize or at least heavily discourage reseting. I recognize that some people feel differently.

Resetting because you screw up positioning, someone dies or you want to try a new strategy should not be penalized, although I know what you mean. There's a limit to what kind of reset/Battle Save abuse is accepted obviously (even in the 'Should Haar be banned draft', which should not be taken as an example of what's acceptable in a draft and what's not), but since drafts are low-turncount runs that kind of stuff is understandable to an extent.