Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[BBM]

Prims confirmed the info as a role message, but not a Courier message. Since it's not part of my role to receive messages, I can only guess it's someone else's role.

I don't think Baldrick would take refuge in audacity and just say he had no scumreads, but then I didn't think SB would take refuge in audacity either last game, and that didn't work out. Still, I think he would have made more of an attempt to fake something or the other. Ehh kind of waffling on Baldrick.

[Strege]

Strege, just because Paperblade is asking questions of Baldrick as part of his suspicion, it doesn't make him scummy. Asking questions is scummy when they're blank questions that don't really contribute to scumhunting, whereas Paperblade's questions, from what I can see, are trying to poke holes in Baldrick's logic in voting me, which was the same thing that you were apparently doing with me, so ???

Questions aren't committal, and when one's scumhunting consists solely of questions it deserves suspicion. Like I said, from my perspective it doesn't matter if he's doing the same thing I was doing because it makes sense from a scum perspective. Also, half-jokingly, I've been a lynch candidate so often that the fact that his behaviour is similar to mine actually makes me a bit more confident in my suspicions.

Necktie: who is this? :$

So I'm drowning in a sea of iffy reads and Baldrick throws me a key lime pie. Great. I'd like some more reads from Manix if he can, maybe share some recent quicktopic posts or something. He caught Blitz's trap early on but didn't do anything with it, which is mostly a problem just because he hasn't done much to push people. Post 209 is his most significant and it still only expresses suspicion of Baldrick, and even then he says he had a gut townread of Baldrick at the beginning and says that after Baldrick voted BBM he "continue[d] to lay the pressure on BBM in subsequent posts which still kinda confuses me" which bugs me because a) I don't see one post that I wouldn't call pressure before he unvoted and b) he doesn't follow up confusion with a direct question (minor point, but he should ask if he's confused). So yeah that seems pretty scummy to me.

@Boron: not sure what to tell you about Paperblade. I'd like Bluedoom to respond to Kay's criticism about his Blitz interactions before I comment on him. (yo Bluedoom)

[Strege]

Among the various phrasing atrocities in my above post, the part after "a)" should read " I see one post...", not "I don't see one post..." Let me know if anything else is confusing.

[BBM]

Necktie is Stahlypin.

Well, I'll let Paperblade answer the rest of your argument against him. However, hypocrisy can be scummy, because if you're town and you're doing X, then that proves that X can be done from a town perspective. So why go after someone for also doing X?

[Strege]

Necktie is Stahlypin.

Well, I'll let Paperblade answer the rest of your argument against him. However, hypocrisy can be scummy, because if you're town and you're doing X, then that proves that X can be done from a town perspective. So why go after someone for also doing X?

Everything can be done from a town perspective. Paperblade's behaviour makes me think it is more *likely* that he is scum. Possibility =/= likelihood. I do scummy stuff all the time that I only realize in retrospect, and I would go after myself for it if I didn't already know I was town.

[riariadne]

Kept you waiting, huh?

A few things that grabbed my attention...

Marth's summary post seems really bad imhotep, there was really not any point in making it at all. It feels completely like a fake contribution and it doesn't really help anyone at all. Also he apparently doesn't have any scum reads, which is alarming at this point in the game.

@BT, Paperblade

Mod-messages can't be really be faked, and if scum really had a role that provides mod-confirmed information to other players, they'd never use it because it helps town more than them. Hence why I don't think BBM is trying to deceive us.

What do you mean by this first thing? Mod messages can be faked pretty easily if you want to. I don't think it is, but saying it's not possible strikes me as very odd. Like Marth, your total lack of reads is also pretty bad.

Would also appreciate it if Rapier could clarify his role a bit more, since the wording isn't entirely clear.

Not sure what to think of the Ninja modifier thing. I don't think outing it is scummy because of the Miller logic, so not complaining there. Kevin's point about the possibility of Mafia watcher/tracker seemed pretty bad.

##Unvote (Stahlypin)

##Vote: Bluedoom

[Prims]

Day 1.6 - Votals

Baldrick (5) - Boron, Paperblade, Manix, Bluedoom, scorri

NekoRex (2) - Stahlypin, Shinori

Strege (2) - Kay, BBM

Zeem (2) - Super Serious Gal, Blitz

BBM (1) - Proto

Blitz (1) - Rapier

Bluedoom (1) - Reinfleche

Objection!! (1) - Xinnidy

Paperblade (1) - Strege

Proto (1) - Serious Bananas

Reinfleche (1) - Objection!!

Serious Bananas (1) - BT

Not Voting (5): Baldrick, Fera, kirsche, NekoRex, Zeem

With 24 alive, it takes 8 to deadline lynch and 13 to hammer. You have 30 and a half hours left in the day. Rapier may not be targeted or voted.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Witch

[peener weener]

well i sure am making a substantial contribution

ugh sorry

[Shinori]

Gonna review Baldrick's posts since I want to fully read that before stating my thoughts on that.

Slightly irked that Nekorex has yet to make their content post.

I noticed that Baldirck currently doesn't have a vote down, same with Kirche. Both of you should probably get one down. And I have a few other various scum reads that are going to come in my next content post which I'm working on typing up while watching LCS.

[Kriemhild]

##Unvote: BBM

##Vote: Baldrick

I'm not liking his suspicion on BBM's information. It's very possible that there's a role that can make their target receive mod messages that confirm little facts about the game. Yes, it could also be Mafia role trying to spread misinformation but there's no way of knowing that for sure now. It only becomes an issue when players try to utilize BBM's info, and so far, no Cop has claimed to have investigated Town. Whether BBM's info is correct or false, or whether BBM even received any such info in the first place, are all completely irrelevant at this point in the game and I find it annoying that you're pursuing this so strongly right now.

Aside from that, still suspicious of Kevin for his strong initial attack on Blues, but he seems to have withdrawn so I guess it's fine now. I'm not finding anyone else suspicious at this point. Zeem's lack of content is not surprising, because I think it's his first Mafia game here (?). I kinda thought SSG was SEG, but apparently it's a completely different person, who is also playing her first game here?

Is Xinnidy claiming to be a Ninja Announcer here?

[Shinori]

Reading over Baldricks ISO I feel that most of the time he spent semi-tunneling on BBM. Post #173 seemed to be his main post where he responded to other people, however to be frank he was mostly just responding to people who were questioning his push against BBM. So he wasn't really pushing anyone else or scum hunting there, just answering questions that people had asked him. I really don't feel like he's done all that much across his posts. However something I saw upon reading the last bits of his ISO was interesting.

Of the posts questioning Objection’s BBM push, Marth looks the worst. Rapier seemed genuinely confused about what BBM was saying, BBM and SB raised legitimate concerns about what he was doing. Marth just labelled it without elaborating or drawing any conclusions.

Blitz, you're a bit late to the party. I'm also not sure why you're suspicious of Scorri, I just got pedit cut by her.

@Paper: It'd be difficult for him to pass on mod-messages. Unless he or one of his buddies had that ability, in which case I'm not sure why they'd be using it because it's negative utility for them.

In this post it seems to me that he is saying that Marth is partially scummy, while not actually saying that himself. Either way it leaves it open so that he can swing both ways if need be.

@BT, Paperblade

Mod-messages can't be really be faked, and if scum really had a role that provides mod-confirmed information to other players, they'd never use it because it helps town more than them. Hence why I don't think BBM is trying to deceive us.

@Boron

I honestly don't know where you got that impression, I haven't been suspicious of him for a while. You're seeing an agenda where there is none.

I was in a hurry before, and forgot to vote. Anyway, here's the much-anticipated vote.

##Vote: BBM's Contact

This must be a valid thing to do because everyone and their mother are telling me I should have gone about it this way. Why don't you come out and stop the speculation from interfering with the game?

I've got absolutely no scumreads, sorry if you're disappointed. Anything I could scrape together would be incredibly graspy so there's no point in that. I've read the thread so many times the lines are starting to blur together and the accusers seem more numerous than they actually are. I could wait until morning but I won't have any brainwaves and IME a longer delay only makes things worse.

Then in this post he puts down a vote that doesn't actually mean anything and then states that he has no scum reads and any that he would scrape together would be graspy. If that's true then what about what he said about Marth in his last post? I mean obviously he didn't state that he thought Marth was scum but at the very least it seems to be his strongest read yet he makes no mention of it whatsoever in this post here. I don't like that.

##Fos: Baldrick

I would vote but I still want to keep my vote on Neko at the moment. Another content post in a bit.

[Strege]

Is Xinnidy claiming to be a Ninja Announcer here?

She claimed those two things, yes. Normally I'd let the person addressed answer the question about them, but this could be rolefishing so I want to give Xinnidy a pass to not answer you. Were you just asking for confirmation or do you have a comment or suspicions?

I'm being cut by Shinori but I want to put this down before I read his.

[BBM]

When did Xinny ever claim Announcer? I just saw her claim Ninja.

[Shinori]

Frankly ninja announcer reminds me of the role I gave to scum during ToS mafia.

And I have my own thoughts based on what her role means/is but I don't feel like speculating that at the moment would be the best bet so I'd rather not mention it currently.

[Strege]

When did Xinny ever claim Announcer? I just saw her claim Ninja.

Huh, I think I actually jumped to a conclusion based on post 91. Someone asked if she wrote that announcement and I took her response as a confirmation, but it's actually not that clear. Should we pursue this though?

[SB.]

Skimming before I go to bed.

Roles and spellcards are two separate things so I don't think we should pry into it. And I don't think she claimed announcer herself, just the announcement implied it.

All this rolespec is going nowhere.

Proto's done something it seems, so back to this. Whether or not I'm happy with the content (at a glance it feels like he's just echoing other people on Baldrick) will have to wait till the morning. Vote's staying for now.

[ZemZem]

Zeem's lack of content is not surprising, because I think it's his first Mafia game here (?).

Yes, it's my first. And now that I've read back...

##Vote: Baldrick

His posts regarding BBM just rubbed me in the wrong way.

[BBM]

I don't disagree with the reasons behind the Baldrick wagon, but its speed and sheepiness are really offputting. What I also don't like is that out of the six people voting for him, three (Paperblade, Scorri, and Proto) have Baldrick as their only serious scumread.

I want to see Paperblade's response to Strege's arguments before I decide whether or not to move my vote from him. Also want to see what Objection's going to do now that the object of his inactivity ire, Rein, has posted.

[SB.]

Someone on Baldrick's wagon is likely to be scum regardless of what alignment since it's pretty much dwarfing any other wagon at this point. Not that I disagree with it, but it's what, seven people on it now?

Baldrick may want to claim soon.

[BBM]

If highly doubt she's one of the Announcers, because an Announcer doesn't actually visit anyone, so giving it a Ninja modifier is useless unless the person is scum. So if Xinny was a mafia-sided Ninja Announcer, I don't think she'd claim the Ninja.

And I got cut by a few posts, so add Zeem to the pile of people with Baldrick as their only scumread.

[Strege]

I want to see Paperblade's response to Strege's arguments before I decide whether or not to move my vote from him.

I don't get this. You should be able to assess the legitimacy of my suspicions yourself, and if you're looking for a second opinion Paperblade's probably isn't the one to seek out -- the person being voted is the most likely to be biased against the vote.

[BBM]

Also, Strege, questions might not be committal, but a vote is.

[SB.]

I think (maybe I'm wrong) BBM would also like Paper to answer since the only read he's given is Baldrick.

[SB.]

who am I kidding i'm probably not going to sleep yet

[Strege]

Also, Strege, questions might not be committal, but a vote is.

Fair point. I suppose it's better than throwing his vote all over the place without any meaning, but it's still a very weak vote and I don't consider it a huge point for him.

@SB: BBM is talking about his vote on me. How can he judge my current behaviour based on information that isn't available to me yet? If Paperblade's defence convinced BBM that he was town would that make me scummier? I thought being suspicious of someone of finding your townread scummy was frowned upon here...