Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[Violet_Rain3]

Yeah I don't understand how other people thinking Paperblade is town makes him suspicious. My townread there is mainly just gut based on his posts. I can't really explain it nor do I really feel like doing so. Him being scum defending his buddies doesn't make much sense to me; why would they tie themselves to each other so much?

If you think about it, there are two people who neither Paperblade or Proto or Shadoweh will mention. Why? They can't be scanned. Are they just too important to give away names? Why don't they want to be known? If they are town, they are giving the town cop a hard time to try to hit someone and give them a straightaway answer.

[Violet_Rain3]

If they are town, they are giving the town cop a hard time to try to hit someone and give them a straightaway answer.

Sorry, meant to say him.

[SB.]

Question for Paperblade, can you still use your abilities when you've been neighborized, and when were you?

[BBM]

I imagine that if Paperblade isn't revealing their names it's because they're unlikely to get scanned by a Cop in the first place.

[Violet_Rain3]

There was also a tracker, a jailkeeper and maybe there are two cops. It would have saved the town a lot of targeting.

[SB.]

The Jailkeeper and Tracker were already dead by the time he claimed it. And besides, it only affects Alignment Cops (apparently)

[Zkirsche]

It might be worth the cop just checking PB anyway and if he gets the null read as PB predicted leave it and if not then lynch him. I suppose you might call that a waste but it's for the same reason Shinori gave BBM that red potion: to get an active town read cleared.

SB why is it that the only thing you seem to care about are reads and nothing else? You said I wasn't doing anything by saying I wasn't posting reads and now you're just brushing off everything SSG says that isn't a read. Discussing about roleclaiming/cardclaiming is important.

I'd just like to point out that bad logic isn't a scum tell.

[SB.]

Because a person not having many reads (or reads all over the place) can be scummy. The claiming point seemed kind of late, but it's probably a fair point. But basically SSG's defense in that post is that "I know I'm playing bad, but I'm a townie! You could be mislynching me, and that'd be bad because of NUMBERS" which is really bad.

[Violet_Rain3]

But basically SSG's defense in that post is that "I know I'm playing bad, but I'm a townie! You could be mislynching me, and that'd be bad because of NUMBERS" which is really bad.

You know what's ironic? Because of that reasoning, playing bad, we have accidentally lynched 3 townies, which only lead to more townie deaths. Think about other possibilities. And I am not saying you could be mislynching me. You would be mislynching me. And I don't know how many mislynches we could afford before we lose.

[SB.]

That's a bad argument because anyone can use it. Anyone can say "You're gonna mislynch me!". And sorry but the first three lynches were horrible (the "best" one was where someone claimed they were deliberately acting scummy.) So SSG, why are you town?

[SB.]

Can we get some votals? I think we have 12 hours or so left?

[Elieson]

Ok done with all my grandmother's duties. Sorry for vanishing, it's been...weird. I subbed in so but im officially back at home so now I'll play catchup and throw my best foot forward.

*blops back to Page 10 to reread*

[Kaoz]

Day 4.3 Votals

Sangyul (2): Paperblade, Shadoweh

CT075 (2) Strege, BBM

SSG (1): Essbee

Bluedoom (1): Sangyul

kirsche (1): Bluedoom

Strege (1): Xin'dy

Elieson (1): scorri

Paperblade (1): SSG

Not voting (6): CT075, Elieson, Proto, kirsche, Manix, Shinori

The day ends in 11 hours, 24 minutes. With 16 alive, hammer is required and it takes 9 to lynch.

[SB.]

I'm gonna have to use my spellcard, aren't I?

[Elieson]

Up to page 10: lead-Reading kirsche as scum

Placing notes here and there because on my phone, and like hell I'm gonna create a Manix-style QT to keep notes in when I have a hard enough time copying shit as it is.

[Elieson]

Oh since you're here SB, was I expected to claim? I popped out when mass claiming was the discussion of choice.

[scorri]

You know, this is the second time that SSG started talking about numbers. The first time was to cast suspicion on the neighborhood watch group and then the second time was to try and help defend herself? I'm really not liking her defense which mainly consists of "I'm town! It'd be a mislynch!" like SB was pointing out, and then that talk about numbers just isn't sitting right with me. How do you know a quarter to half of us is scum? Unless you have mod confirmed info telling you that, you can't assume anything. Then, D1, she never switched her vote off her RVS vote, but then doesn't mention Zeem in her reads again or if she did very quickly. So, basically, she left her vote on someone that she never really considered scum. She then votes objection the next day but claims at one point that she'd be willing to switch over to Blitz at any point if needed. Also makes a big deal about how she wasn't on the bandwagons, but D1 she didn't exist and then D2 she claimed she found Blitz scummy and would vote if people wanted her too, but then never did. Switching from a null read to a scummy read here.

##Unvote

##Vote: SSG

[SB.]

Probably not? I dunno. Kind of hard to tell at this point.

[Elieson]

Question: (on page 12)

Why is BBM still alive after publically announcing anti-scum information?

[BBM]

People didn't really consider outing the existence of a GF as anti-town; several people voted/pressured me for it actually.

I did get pseudo-cleared as town on D3 but the N3 kill was pretty out of nowhere so idk.

Telling the Cop to purposely waste its time on someone who says they're going to return nothing is like telling a Cop to inspect a Miller (not quite, but similar). Knowing that he doesn't return Cop results doesn't clear him.

I could go for an SSG lynch I guess. SSG, your response to the fact that town has mislynched 3 times is to start lynching our own townreads? You've literally offered no reason to suspect Paperblade other than that people trust him and that he hasn't revealed everything he knows.

[scorri]

Elie: Seems like there's a role that's giving people information. It wasn't just BBM that announced anti-scum info, so maybe scum's trying to hit the source not the messengers?

[Zkirsche]

Noone else is claiming and the topic has been up a while so I you don't need to claim.

Maybe scum are worried about a doc?

[Zkirsche]

Cut by BBM and Scorri :S

Also I'm ok with an SSG lynch and we shouldn't waste a card so needlessly if we can avoid it. ##Vote: Super Serious Gal

[CT075]

fucking shit why does this always happen

i'm leaving this here because I might not make it back for phase end and it seems that other people wouldn't mind this

##vote ssg

[Strege]

Strege, did your opinions on Paperblade fade or do you just find Cam worse atm? I don't see a real reason for the switch in votes.

I find Cam worse. My Paperblade vote was really weak, as evidenced by my use of "bleh", my other weak reads on Xinnidy and Bluedoom, and my reference only to the current phase's events. I am fairly confident in my suspicions of Cam, but still behind in reading other people.

To clarify, it's my personal preference to get something out of the person I'm voting before I drop the vote, no matter how much worse I'm finding someone else, and Paperblade didn't really defend against your vote at all, so the choice to switch to someone else is weird.

You're right, I should have pressed Paperblade to respond. To be honest I'm still kinda grumpy that he never addressed that misrep of SB that I pointed out. (And while I'm being grumpy, scorri never told me *why* she suspected Objection, only that she did, and I can't push that now.)

@Paperblade: Why did you suggest reaction testing BBM?

And while I'm at it, @Paperblade: You said you'd be okay with lynching me. Does that still stand, and if so what is it based on?

paper never responded, and going through strege's iso I could have sworn i read something about "i don't move my vote until i get a response" in there somewhere, but going through the second time i just can't damn well find it. help anyone?

if i'm not going crazy, then this behavior is a little out of place for strege, but past that reading his walls are eye-draining (and look good enough from what i can manage this late at night)

I try to get a response, but I've probably broken that rule at some point unvoting Kay or Proto. Though, I think you might be thinking of me saying that I always try to accompany my vote with a question or piece of analysis that allows to votee to offer an alternative interpretation. I think I said this last game, and the purpose is to get them talking, possibly get reads off of *how* they choose to answer my question, and to potentially stamp out logical flaws in my argument.

I'm playing terribly right now, and if I was anyone else, I'd lynch myself. But honestly, the only thing you'd be doing would be lynching another townie. Right now, we should be looking at the numbers. Anywhere from a half to a quarter of us is scum, and if we mislynch two townies would die and we'll be none the wiser.

I wouldn't mind claiming if others want me to, however mass claiming seems to me that you would only be helping the mafia kill off the people with better roles. As for card claiming I feel pretty neutral about it.

I'm just not liking the fact that people have chosen to blindly follow Paperblade for reasons I can't understand. Can someone who believes Paperblade is town please explain why?

As for voting, Bluedoom is still giving me that null read that I can't figure out. I wouldn't mind lynching Strege, but I am not entirely convinced. And I'm finding Paperblade suspicious due to seemingly blind trust and others trust in him.

I find it kind of scummy that you're emphasizing the gravity of a mislynch at this stage but saying you wouldn't mind lynching me, without offering your own evidence or asking questions.

Quoted the wrong thing from SB, gimme a sec to put up another post. I'm not psyched about the SSG lynch, frankly. Aside from the above issue I was kind of townreading her when I read her ISO last night. I don't have any evidence for it though, and I didn't realize we were this close to phase end.