Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[NekoRex]

ISO on... Manix now I guess?

How about BBM instead.

Fuck 3 pages of posts.

"Serious answer: as far as I know, the only person in this game who's ever come close to being a policy lynch is Shinori for throwing tantrums once or twice to try and prevent his lynch."

:/

(that sounds like me but without the policy votes)

Seems to spend a lot of time talking about his role, which is eh.

There's really not much to comment on, despite all the posts. He exists a lot and he puts in a lot of activity, so good for him? Guess I want to know his opinion on me vs Shinori.

I'm not feeling as peppy about this as when I started.

[NekoRex]

Oh right yeah you claimed that near the start of D1, I guess 30 pages of content made me forget.

NNR is teh stuff inside the quotes your thoughts or what? Why are they quotes?

Because I don't want to stretch the page with code boxes. This is just c+p thoughts from notepad while reading through. The stuff in parenthesis are actual quotes or paraphrased, everything else is personal thoughts.

[scorri]

Shinori: Since you've claimed potion guy at this point, let me ask you a question. You apparently found me scummy. You said specifically in your message to me that you did. And apparently you told Paper that you found someone scummy judging by his response in thread on D2. So why didn't you say anything? Why just poke at me in your potion message and not actually do it? Afraid you wouldn't have support and would look bad? Let me ask you something, did you tell everyone you sent a potion to N1 that you found me scummy? Why not just push me in thread?

[BBM]

@NNR- huh? I haven't spoken about my role at all, as far as I know, unless you're talking about Manix there, in which case flipping between the two of us in that same quote was kind of confusing.

My opinion about you is that your reads don't feel consistent. You think Paperblade is Townie McTown and said that you love his posts, but don't actually agree with any of the scumreads he's had (Baldrick, SB, Objection). Some of your reads (most particularly Objection) are for crap reasons (like calling one of his walls surprisingly competent). And finally, maybe it's because I agreed with Shinori's initial reasons for voting you (though he should have dropped it long before he did), but your arguments against him feel like an OMGUS to me. So I think you're more likely to be scum than Shinori is.

[NekoRex]

@NNR- huh? I haven't spoken about my role at all, as far as I know, unless you're talking about Manix there, in which case flipping between the two of us in that same quote was kind of confusing.

My opinion about you is that your reads don't feel consistent. You think Paperblade is Townie McTown and said that you love his posts, but don't actually agree with any of the scumreads he's had (Baldrick, SB, Objection). Some of your reads (most particularly Objection) are for crap reasons (like calling one of his walls surprisingly competent). And finally, maybe it's because I agreed with Shinori's initial reasons for voting you (though he should have dropped it long before he did), but your arguments against him feel like an OMGUS to me. So I think you're more likely to be scum than Shinori is.

Apparently I have to sheep Paperblade to think he's town? Is that a requirement now?

[NekoRex]

Also I was referring to that insider information you touted D1 with the godfather-type role when you were talking about yourself a lot

[BBM]

No, but even if you think his tone or style of hunting or whatever is townie, if you disagree with everything he's saying, him being your strongest townread doesn't make much sense. And there's a difference between agreeing with somebody and sheeping them, btw.

[Strege]

@Kay: I think Proto is very scummy and I would lynch him. I spoke more delicately because I feared this was going to be another situation where my read implodes as soon as Proto responds to it, but that's dumb of me to expect.

Uh, I don't see how what I said contradicts what BT said?

BT: Non-town killers can kill and use their action.
You: I think BT said non-town killers can't kill and use their action.

I also think proto's scummy because after Blitz's reaction mid-D2 he goes all "I am convinced you are scum" which is seems pretty off (and he isn't even part of the Blitz wagon) so I changed my mind on him.

EDIT: Wait, did he vote him and then unvote him later at some point?

That was Blitz's reaction though, so I'm not sure how that helps you read Proto. What about, you know, Proto's actions? You mentioned earlier that Proto's reaction to Blitz on D2 was bad, but don't say why. This bit is pretty unclear to me and I don't like the patchy read on Proto. (Also, who unvoted who?)

Also regarding Bluedoom: the RVS motivation for his first Blitz vote is consistent with his assessment in his big summary post that RVS ended on page 3 (his post was early on page 3) so I don't think that works as an element of Kay's or my arguments. I'm wondering, though, why Bluedoom waited so long before voting Objection; voting kirsche over Objection early on seems inconsistent with his reads at the time. Other than asking other people for more diverse reads, I don't see him pushing people a whole lot, which is odd considering his. Overall read: mildly scummy, but unfortunately one of my higher scumreads since I don't have a lot right now.

I don't like the fact that Objection's vote on Bluedoom is based on two posts. The summary post is an easy target, though the other post (in post 611) is a bit better (I think the first and last bolded comments are decent, anyway). His Rein vote-unvote is super weird and if one of them turns up scum I'd look at the other. All of his content is super weird, but consistently so; I can't see scum intent in a lot of what he does, but I'm not sure I see town intent either. Mostly nullreading him, slightly scummy. I'd vote Bluedoom over Objection at this point, and I doubt they're both scum.

Fera's logic for voting is kinda questionable, and his explanations don't help a lot. I don't have a lot of material besides that except for that apparent contradiction I pointed out earlier that I'd like him to address. I can't read this little content very well, and Fera actually seems like a decent vig target (I would also suggest Rein...)

[Sunwoo]

I was about to say, "Where is everyone," but Strege beat me with a post. Curse you, Strege!

Okay, so, I'm not liking NekoRex very much right now. There's been weird shit between him and Shinori since D1. While I do feel that Shinori should've done more productive things with his vote during NekoRex's absence in D1, I'm not exactly satisfied with Neko's initial vote on Shinori and I get the feeling that he thinks Shinori is scum because Shinori was on his ass on D1.

I also question how quickly he is to get a "scum vibe" from the barely present Zeem, but says he can't get anything definitive on people with more presence and posts, such as SB or BBM or me. Even when he ISO'd some people didn't really say whether he felt they were scum or not. Also, Zeem is hardly the only person not posting enough. (Come on, Strider and SSG, I know you exist.)

Quick look at Marth's ISO. Something interesting I noted. In his initial vote on Baldrick D1 he says he voted him because he didn't come back to put another vote down on someone. His next content post says he found "Baldy and kirsche to be off", but there was literally no mention of Baldrick before his vote. That strikes me as kind of odd. Said Blitz' content was not great and irked him, but votes Strider instead because "his last post was bad"? Didn't really mention Blitz at all after this either during D2, except to say the "vote stacks on him are annoying" and to call out Xinny's vote on him?

Fera is still bad for not posting anything relevant during D2. Like I think his entire D2 was just a response/defense to his voting patterns. Hoping to see some actual content today.

Proto's behavior towards Blitz was odd, I agree, and I think I already outlined why in an earlier post. He never really gave any reads for thoughts once the "Blitz thing" happened either. Did not follow through with or elaborate his thoughts on the other people he found "scummy" the entire phase. SB, at the very least, was posting. Do you still think he's the scummiest, Proto?

Will need to reread Objection and Kay's content in a little while.

[Strege]

Also regarding Bluedoom: the RVS motivation for his first Blitz vote is consistent with his assessment in his big summary post that RVS ended on page 3 (his post was early on page 3) so I don't think that works as an element of Kay's or my arguments. I'm wondering, though, why Bluedoom waited so long before voting Objection; voting kirsche over Objection early on seems inconsistent with his reads at the time. Other than asking other people for more diverse reads, I don't see him pushing people a whole lot, which is odd considering his. Overall read: mildly scummy, but unfortunately one of my higher scumreads since I don't have a lot right now.

Scratch the bolded -- I was going to say something but upon double-checking his ISO I was wrong. The lack of pushing is an admittedly vague observation that his posts don't seem to be looking for in-depth responses, but I accounted for that vagueness in my overall assessment.

[Violet_Rain3]

I exist but I had to go to soccer.

Right now I feel like I'm not gonna bring anything new to the table about Objection and NR. I already stated what I didn't like before (the selective responses, little to no explanations, selective reading) and NR is just giving me bad vibes with the whole Shinori thing. I feel like he's picked a fight and now he's not gonna back down, no matter what is better for the town.

I'll post more later on Bluedoom.

[Paperblade]

Marth, do you still think that Rein's early game is scummy? You seem to have almost entirely dropped that case

[BBM]

I should be able to post properly today.

For now know that I got a message similar to BBM's that says that not all non-town killers can use their actions with the kill. (is this a game of 20 questions?)

Can someone else say what they're gathering from this? It looks like BT is also saying that not all anti-town killers can kill and use their role simultaneously, but Strege is making me doubt my reading comprehension skills.

I was reading through some of Marth's posts and there was something I noticed- he defended his Baldrick vote by saying that he thought that voting for someone with a couple votes on them was better than voting someone with no votes on them. In light of that, his pressuring Xinny simply for being an extra vote on the wagon looks pretty bad, considering he never actually attacked the content of Xinny's vote, just its timing.

[Shinori]

I'm still trying to decide what to do with one of my thingie-majiggers.

[scorri]

Shinori: No response to my post?

[Strege]

Can someone else say what they're gathering from this? It looks like BT is also saying that not all anti-town killers can kill and use their role simultaneously, but Strege is making me doubt my reading comprehension skills.

Wow, I was wrong there. I read it like three times too... I blame the copy-editing I've been doing (which is probably all wrong asdsgsg).

To make this post not completely useless, scorri do you have any scumreads that aren't Bluedoom or a dead person?

[NekoRex]

I still want an explanation from Shinori about why he sent me a potion when it was clear he doesn't exactly trust me.

I guess I'll ##Vote Bluedoom for now while I wait. Bluedoom's posts have been kind of stalwart and backwards. He makes these huge posts but reports he has no reads in light of them, and his current reads are kind of iffy due to reactions with town-flipped players (although I might need to go ISO those players to make sure that's accurate). The ISO I wrote on him is probably better then what I can explain here.

Kind of still want to vote Shinori, but this potion thing is sending mixed messages at the moment.

I'm self-aware that I sound like I'm voting Shinori defensively, but I'm still adamant that his D1 vote on me was held way too long, and that his D1 actions after he unvoted me looked really scummy and reactive.

Actually I'm a little inclined to claim due to how my role works, but I'm not sure if I can make effective use of it without somebody else needing to out sensitive info to the thread.

[Shinori]

Apologies Scorri forgot about it.

Shinori: Since you've claimed potion guy at this point, let me ask you a question. You apparently found me scummy. You said specifically in your message to me that you did. And apparently you told Paper that you found someone scummy judging by his response in thread on D2. So why didn't you say anything? Why just poke at me in your potion message and not actually do it? Afraid you wouldn't have support and would look bad? Let me ask you something, did you tell everyone you sent a potion to N1 that you found me scummy? Why not just push me in thread?

On night 1 yes I believe I told everyone I thought you were scummy. Why didn't I push you? More or less I was curious of various reactions. I wanted to see how you would react to it and I figured one of the multiple people I had also messaged saying that I felt you were scummy would also react in some way shape or form. And the reactions I got were actually reactions that made me more comfortable than previous. Also even if I didn't feel entirely comfortable about you at that time I felt that there were better targets to go after than you.

I still want an explanation from Shinori about why he sent me a potion when it was clear he doesn't exactly trust me.

I guess I'll ##Vote Bluedoom for now while I wait. Bluedoom's posts have been kind of stalwart and backwards. He makes these huge posts but reports he has no reads in light of them, and his current reads are kind of iffy due to reactions with town-flipped players (although I might need to go ISO those players to make sure that's accurate). The ISO I wrote on him is probably better then what I can explain here.

Kind of still want to vote Shinori, but this potion thing is sending mixed messages at the moment.

I'm self-aware that I sound like I'm voting Shinori defensively, but I'm still adamant that his D1 vote on me was held way too long, and that his D1 actions after he unvoted me looked really scummy and reactive.

Actually I'm a little inclined to claim due to how my role works, but I'm not sure if I can make effective use of it without somebody else needing to out sensitive info to the thread.

Because I actually didn't intend to claim today and I was wondering how you would react to what I stated. And even though I don't trust you if I end up getting you cleared and me and you stop poking at each other I feel that the game might run a bit more smoothly for us.

[scorri]

Strege: Well, there was my vote on Objection at the start, which would indicate that I'm not happy with him and then there are my prods on Shinori which would indicate that I'm not happy with him. Before I call the Shinori one a full blown scum read though, I do have a question.

@EVERYONE WHO RECEIVED A POTION N1 and N2: Did Shinori include in his message to you a point about how he found me scummy? If so, what all did it include? I didn't receive a potion N2, but I'm curious as to what those potion messages said.

[Shinori]

Strege: Well, there was my vote on Objection at the start, which would indicate that I'm not happy with him and then there are my prods on Shinori which would indicate that I'm not happy with him. Before I call the Shinori one a full blown scum read though, I do have a question.

@EVERYONE WHO RECEIVED A POTION N1 and N2: Did Shinori include in his message to you a point about how he found me scummy? If so, what all did it include? I didn't receive a potion N2, but I'm curious as to what those potion messages said.

I sent a message to xinnidy bbm and paper on N1 saying I thought you were scummy and asked how they felt on a push against you.

N2 I sent a message to BBM, Paper, and NNR.

NNR basically stated already what I said to him and BBM answered what I asked him in thread. Basically I asked him how he felt about the people at the beginning of the blitz lynch, me and Scorri. Mostly to attempt to distance myself from potion guy.

[Bluedoom]

@BBM: My vote on Baldy and Xinny's vote on Blitz were different. The former had only two votes on him when I voted, and I said nothing about wagons. In Xinny's post he says that people should not just have one wagon for a day and then votes Blitz to pressure him when he already had 5 votes on him, so i think that was scummy.

@Paper: Yeah I still think Rein's early game was scummy and in his last post in D2 he just says he found kirsche neutral when uh, at that point we even had an argument with each other and he just restates that he thinks my filler post all the way in D1 was bad, so I don't even find that a satisfying response.

I still think Objection has a good chance of flipping scum, but before I say anything, I'll claim because I don't think anything else will help me at this point.

My role is ninja, my spellcard is Spellcard Swapper + one shot Mass Janitor(if I use it I relinquish my role) and I'm supposed to submit these actions during the day.

This is why in one of my posts I thought there were multiple kills per night cuz I didn't know why else would a Mass Janitor exist. Obvsly I'm the only one who gets the information of the flip.

Will post more in next post.

[Strege]

Strege: Well, there was my vote on Objection at the start, which would indicate that I'm not happy with him and then there are my prods on Shinori which would indicate that I'm not happy with him. Before I call the Shinori one a full blown scum read though, I do have a question.

I misread/misremembered your Objection vote as being D2 -- sorry, I'm kinda out of it today it seems.Your Shinori read is probably in development, but Objection has answered your questions and I'm wondering where your opinion of him stands, since those questions were the only things you've said about him.

[Grace]

hi i am here, kinda, sorry for not contributing etc

marth: your claim looks like a scumrole :/ (ninja what? mass-jan? ????????????????????????????????)

need clarification

[Grace]

also since i feel like contributing; someone ask me shit because right now i'm a touch lost/unmotivated and need a little push to get into it

[scorri]

Right. Thanks Shinori.

So basically, to me, it looks like you were trying to get other people to build a case on me without having to do the dirty work yourself. Looks like a great example of distancing to me. Would make this a secondary lynch.