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Touhou NOCfia - Game Over


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As the OP in the signups states, his games have involved stuff like a mafia having a Jailer when town had no killing roles.

this isn't actually that bastard; mods use it a lot so that scum can't nk cop then roleblock them as a failsafe in case there's a doc. it was a dick move in context because town had a rolecop
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@Boron:

If the contact exists, I think they’re probably scum. The simplest explanation is that the scum are putting out false information in a way that can’t be traced back to them.

If the contact does not exist, BBM is definitely scum. The only reason he could have for lying about that is if it’s a part of his role. But it wouldn’t be prudent to reveal that information immediately like an ascetic/PGO/miller because it doesn’t help the town. And if he’s lying about where he got the message, he’s likely also lying about content of the message. There’s no way a townie would make up something like that.

tl;dr in answer to your latest post, #3 is more likely than #1, but I can't follow up on 3 and 1 is a distinct and telling possibility. 2 doesn't apply to me.

Why do you feel so strongly that this information is misinformation, though? And why would scum BBM (or scum in general) lie about such a thing anyway? Do you believe that town!BBM keeping this information to himself would have been better for the town than outing it? I honestly don't understand your reasons for BBM suspicion.

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Firstly, I never said the info makes you look scummy. As I said before, you said that you were told by somebody and I don't think somebody meant your role so I did what I did. If it was a message from a Mod, then I'm sorry. All I wanted to know was who is this 'somebody', as well as far as I know only scum can communicate at night. But if it was a mod message, there's nothing I can say about it.

I'm not yet fully convinced but I'll drop it for now.

##Unvote

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I thought you were saying it was like a private announcement. I understand now. There's unlikely to be ulterior motives behind it. It's still possible you're lying but it'd be much riskier than I thought it was.

There's a difference between the inherent distrust you have in any innocent scan and distrust because we have reason to believe a GF exists. As long as a cop is guaranteed to be sane I would put his results a tier above mere opinions. That said, I don't think you should have kept it to yourself.

##Unvote

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So my few hour absence turned into half of a day. Apologies.

@Strege- Not quite. The mafia doesn't need to mislynch everybody. What they need to do is make sure at least one of their party doesn't get lynched. If I were mafia, I wouldn't mind a couple town clears if it also meant a mafia clear. Also, the existence of three different Announcers was outed. The mafia knowing a role exists doesn't do much good with them being able to actually kill that role.

I like what Shinori said about NNR and I'd sheep it but I want Objection to respond first.

[For those of you following at home, BBM's responses are to post 137.]

If you and your contact are town, as this branch of our conversation is assuming, a lucky mafia tracker/walker could have detected our friendly neighbourhood informant based on N0 information. I don't think you can compare an investigative role to an announcer in terms of usefulness to town either. Just sayin'.

Also, what does NNR stand for?

Strege, what is it that you disagree with? Do you think, like Baldrick is implying, that I'm making something up? Or do you think that I'm telling the truth that I got this info somehow, but that I should have just kept it to myself? Your post asks a lot of questions but doesn't give many opinions.

Also, "I don't see how it clears Rapier as town, but I doubt he's mafia." What?

I disagree with the part I bolded in my earlier post, where I explained why. I think it is possible that you're making something up. Discussing whether or not you *should* have kept the information to yourself is a waste of time. I'm interested in your motivation.

Regarding Rapier, I found it hard to imagine a special-snowflake role like that on a mafia team; town and third party seemed more likely. I spaced on the fact that we'll (presumably) see his alignment when he dies.

[...]

Finally, Baldrick, would you have preferred that I just keep the info to myself? Yes, maybe it makes us distrust all of the Cop's scans. That's something we should have done anyways though, because GF is still a pretty common role, so blindly Following The Cop isn't something you do in any game, much less a Prims game.

If I'm not mistaken, this quote is you saying that outing the GF wasn't very useful to town. I'm going to address this the way I should have in my last post. BBM, why did you choose to share that information? For the record, I don't find your other behaviour scummy but this is a very significant sticking point.

This post is already getting long, but I've been mulling it over a while. I'll reread the thread and come back with more stuff.

By the way, I'd love to be your neighbour Rapier. :D

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##Vote: Blitz

Hey dude, you focused a lot of your time in someone who couldn't be lynched and, as far as I recall (because my memory is very short), you haven't voted anyone until now. Please do something, kind sir, instead of beating up a dead horse. You're making my situation more complicated than it actually is.

Also BBM you failed at rolecrumbling.

Hey dude, you were easily the most conspicuous thing, I'd say talking about someone being missing instead of lolRVS votes is kinda reasonable.

He made the scummiest move, so I voted him. He wasn't particularly scummy though; he was simply the best vote at the time from my perspective/in my opinion.

Yay, delicious waffles!

##Unvote: Fera (he's still a meanie though)

##Vote: Strege because I don't like his rolespec.

The Blitzy wagon is terrible and stupid, and Marth is bad also for voting Blitzy and then claiming a nullread on him and attacking other people for voting Blitzy. Would vote for Marth or Rapier, but Marth is getting enough pressure right now and Rapier isn't lynchable plus I wanna see what happens with him. I don't like Kevin but he has every right to be rusty.

Proto, if you can fanboy over Rena in IP Chat you can play mafia. Please say things.

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rage i lost my post

again

I outed the info because it was info. It's not the most useful, yeah, but that doesn't mean I was going to hide it. Any info we know about the setup is good. This might be taking it to an extreme, but you can see how much simpler C9++ became as the game progressed and town got more info about the roles. And I'd say whether or not you think I should have hidden it is very relevant, seeing as you're asking me why I chose to reveal it. I want to know your motivations behind asking me questions like these.

A lucky mafia Rolecop could also have discovered who our insertstrongpowerrolehere is; that sort of discussion isn't useful. Also, wrt the Rapier thing, I quoted that sentence because it's very contradictory. In the first segment you say you don't see how Rapier is most likely town, and in the second, you say it's doubtful he's mafia.

NNR = NekoRex (he was originally NekoNekoRex).

##Unvote, ##Vote: Strege

I don't really see anything from him other than rolespec. And when I asked him questions about why he was doing it, he brushed it off. His play has just been pushing me about outing the info, without actually revealing the motives behind doing so, as in whether or not he thinks my actions have been scummy. The most contributive thing he's done is tell Paperblade to step up his content:activity ratio, and say that Objection is a little scummy for echoing. But it's a blanket statement that doesn't give any examples or anything of the sort.

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I don't find Blues scummy at all for claiming Ninja. A Ninja modifier in a Town ability is negative utility imo, so it's better that he clarifies it from before and avoid causing problems later on. I'd find it far scummier if he didn't claim Ninja early on and only does so after he's under attack because of it later on.

So yeah, I strongly disagree with Kevin's reasoning that Blues did something stupid, but that doesn't really make Kevin scummy to me.

Blitzy's "trap" is something that makes perfect sense for Blitzy to do. Domu might try to take advantage of his immunity of being targeted to try pretending like he can't speak either. Domu posting so late may have very valid reasons, but I don't find it scummy for Blitzy to be suspicious of Domu's silence and trying to draw him out.

I'm inclined to trust BBM's info about the Godfather's existence because he provided plenty of details on the nature of the message and seems very adamant about its authenticity. But that doesn't clear him either, and there's not much we can do with this info.

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@Paperblade

Unless I know his source, I can't confront him directly. At that stage I interpreted the message as something that could be easily faked, so I thought it was more probable BBM was lying. If nobody else receives a mod-message he'll be suspicious again.

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Ugh I've been busy with college and other things and have been really drowsy, sorry I've been not around. Prod dodge, i guess

Also yeah, I tend to be self-conscious of my opening posts because I have a hard time "entering" games (see: me trying to sub into anything), but that's why my OP is paranoid like that. Take it with a grain of salt if you want.

I'm going to re-skim the last few pages and put a vote down before I nod off, but I'll try to at least have a vote down.

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Wow... that was a lot of posts. I'm not really sure what I think. I'm a little suspicious of the people that were pushing BBM and Rapier, but not sure which one I prefer to vote right now. Will hopefully reread in a bit, sorry I've been super busy.

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Ummmmmm Kay, I think my wagon is dead, just saying (yes, I am kinda sad too that it is)

@Scorri, what makes you say that BBM and Rapier are the only ones getting lynched? (in fact, Rapier isn't probably ever gonna get lynched), maybe you meant Kevin??

##Unvote

##Vote: Scorri

it seems like you do not care enough about the lynch

in other news, I wish for more rainRein

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Day 1.4 - Votals

Serious Bananas (3) - Xinnidy, Fera, BT

Baldrick (2) - Boron, Paperblade

kirsche (2) - Bluedoom, Serious Bananas

NekoRex (2) - Stahlypin, Shinori

Strege (2) - Kay, BBM

BBM (1) - Proto

Blitz (1) - Rapier

Manix (1) - scorri

Objection!! (1) - Strege

scorri (1) - Blitz

Stahlypin (1) - Reinfleche

Xinnidy (1) - Manix

Zeem (1) - Super Serious Gal

Not Voting (5): Baldrick, kirsche, NekoRex, Objection!!, Zeem

With 24 alive, it takes 8 to deadline lynch and 13 to hammer. You have 47 hours and 20 minutes left in the day. Rapier may not be targeted or voted.

Edited by Witch
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oh, right I forgot, I wanted to do some role spec

if Marth is indeed a ninja and town, there could even be a scum watcher or some role like that (just saying)

I do not know what to think of what BBM got, but I am currently wondering whether what he got was his own role ability (like say gains a piece of info at the start of every day phase regarding the game) or it could be a message sent by some other role who has the ability to send messages and gain role gain certain info at the start of the night, but I would think it is more likely the first option, unless a scum sent that message to BBM by some PMing ability of theirs (by giving away a hint to look more like a townie when in claiming phase) or it could be that BBM is scum trying to look more like a townie, however I doubt the last point is true.

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@Paperblade

Unless I know his source, I can't confront him directly. At that stage I interpreted the message as something that could be easily faked, so I thought it was more probable BBM was lying. If nobody else receives a mod-message he'll be suspicious again.

If he's scum he can just make shit up, like

"There are x scum in the game" or what have you

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@Scorri, what makes you say that BBM and Rapier are the only ones getting lynched? (in fact, Rapier isn't probably ever gonna get lynched), maybe you meant Kevin??

Uhm, point me to where I said that? I said that I was suspicious of the people who were pushing those two people. I said that I wasn't sure which of the people who were pushing those two people I wanted to vote. Aka I need to reread and figure out who of that set of people (aka like Baldrick, kevin, etc.) I want to be voting for. I never once said that those were the people who were getting lynched. That's a huge misrep.

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Of the posts questioning Objection’s BBM push, Marth looks the worst. Rapier seemed genuinely confused about what BBM was saying, BBM and SB raised legitimate concerns about what he was doing. Marth just labelled it without elaborating or drawing any conclusions.

Blitz, you're a bit late to the party. I'm also not sure why you're suspicious of Scorri, I just got pedit cut by her.

@Paper: It'd be difficult for him to pass on mod-messages. Unless he or one of his buddies had that ability, in which case I'm not sure why they'd be using it because it's negative utility for them.

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Day 1.5 - MODSCENE

As the townies hazily acknowledged the existence of a few cases, a nameless fairy found a note somebody seemingly lost under a tree and brought it to everyone's attention:

...BOO!

I told you guys I had other methods! And my day announcements are unlimited in length too! Aren't you scared!? Isn't this scary!?

Well there's a few of us just like me; who cuss just like me; who just don't give a fuck like me! Who dress like me; walk, talk, and act like me, and just might be the next best thing but not quite me! Cause I'm the announcer, yes I'm the real 'nouncer, all you other announcers are just imitating. So won't the real announcer please stand up? Please stand up, please stand up?

Well, despite the fact that my day announcements are unlimited in length, I don't really have much to say at the moment. I think people should quit rolespeccing about GFs and Ninjas and just focus on good old fashioned scumhunting. I see a bunch of people who're using that discussion as their activity. Use the reactions to that discussion if you want, but the content itself is not worth talking about anymore.

Happy SCARY hunting guys!

Edited by Witch
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