Rhythm Tengoku Mafia: The Best + (Game Over)

[Paperblade]

Paperblade, why do you think Blitz is town/explain his meta? I don't know how to read Blitz (or Shin) so I'm curious.

I can't read Shin either but with Blitz I feel like he actually tries to do stuff, has reads, asks questions, follows up. Very proactive.

As scum he just kinda lurks about, his posts tend to be much shorter and he's very defensive

[Refa]

Refa if you think I'm scummy why don't you do something about it :^)

I'd rather vote someone I have a definitive case on (you'd be below Dormio on my priorities, probably someone I'd cop).

Paperblade is not active lurking the same way he was in Thousand Names, & he's already more memorable than he was in that game @Refa. Admittedly it's harder to tell until later game though, when Paperblade is town I tend to scumread him until middlegame because that's when he starts posting more and it becomes more obvious. His last post doesn't read as something he would do as scum though, ngl his scum defenses are weak as in he doesn't actually do anything about suspicions on him whereas he's actually actively challenging Refa here lol.

Fair enough, I didn't actually think of that (re: the defense against me). I didn't read Thousand Names, so I'll just take your word on that one.

refa's last post did... nothing? he's says he's not so sure on j00 after her last post, complains about paperblade active lurking, but does absolutely nothing about it? in fact, looking at his iso as well, he's giving non-concrete responses to a lot of points.

There's a reason I said I'm not as sure while still voting her lol (AKA I'm still scumreading her); there is literally nothing I can do about Paperblade active lurking sans voting him, and I don't feel as strongly about that as I do for someone I made an actual case on. As for your third point, well you're objectively wrong there lol.

[Prims]

Votals 1.6

j00 (4) - Refa, Via, Snike, Haze

Elieson (3) - j00, Paperblade, Iris

Shin (2) - Blitz, Kaoz

Blitz (1) - Elieson

Dormio (1) - Shin

Refa (1) - Manix

Snike (1) - Dormio

Not Voting (0): None!

You have 17 hours and 11 minutes left in the phase. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Shin]

I have to get ready to leave in about twenty minutes, but I should finish early today. I'll try and cover what's happened whilst I was asleep then.

[Refa]

YES! YES! YES! OH MY GOD!

[Grace]

ngl low activity is easier to keep up with than high activity, but this low an activity isn't getting much done

in order to Make Things Happen, gonna move my vote somewhere more useful

##Unvote

##Vote: Dormio

refa still isn't off the hook. sitting on the same case for basically the entirety of d1 isn't doing him any favors. like i'm not seeing a load of conviction from him in regards to his play

time is ticking though and things need to get done. chop chop

[Paperblade]

Manix are you lost without a BBM to tunnel

should I change my username for you?

[Refa]

I've been sitting on the same case because noone else has bothered me personally (sans Dormio, but it's pretty demotivating when both of your main scumreads barely post at all to begin with) and I don't agree with any of the other wagons (Elieson, Shin). *shrugs* Still not seeing how I'm lacking conviction, though.

[Kaoz]

So you're taking issue with my lack of conviction on minor reads? I was admittedly uncertain on Eli, mostly because it was a very early game thing, and that's developed with his responses over time. I'm hesitant about j00 because she hasn't had a chance to post recently, so it's more a grumbling suspicion than anything else. Do you take any issue with my stance on Dormio?

It's the way you worded it that bothers me. Like, something like early cases generally having less back up than later ones is generally normal, but I feel like the way you worded it allows you to make the vote so weak that it's a very easy switch-off later on and I think town wouldn't go out of their way like that.

No, Dormio stance read normal to me.

does anyone find this post to be weird in any way?

I think it's weirdly worded. From what I can gather, Elieson interpreted Manix's motivation differently at first in that he thought Manix voted Shin without an actual purpose and found it inadequate for that stage of the game, or something. I feel like this is more likely to be a genuine misunderstanding though.

@Everyone: What do you think of j00's #47 in response to Manix's #35? This what I'm referring to when I was talking about j00 dodging. It's pretty clear that she read Quote's #40, so why didn't she respond to Manix more directly?

I feel like the last line in parenthesis was her just accepting Manix's post as it was in a "Don't have anything to comment on"-way.

Kaoz posted a couple of reads and voted Shin purely out of gut??

I voted him based on the stuff I mentioned in one of the paragraphs. I just called it "gut" because it's definitely closer to that than any logical conclusions.

---

@Iris

I answered Snike's question about the "post limit" in my #91.

@Paperblade

Is Snike scum? I don't care if it's a gut read or whatever, but I'd like you to answer this. Also, are you still voting Elieson because you're scum reading him or do you just feel worse about him than the rest?

@Levity

How do you feel about j00's #117?

So, consolidation. From what I can tell we're looking at j00 and Elieson as primary targets and Shin and Dormio as secondary ones. I don't like the Dormio slot for what should be obvious reasons, but it's more like I don't want his slot to be around when push comes to shove - laziness isn't alignment indicative. Manix, why is he lazy scum in your opinion? And Blitz, I'm pretty sure scum blatantly claiming to not have read the thread has happened before; do you have any other reason to believe he's town? Overall, I wouldn't be opposed to this lynch, but it's not my top priority.

Shin hasn't had much new content since my last post, would still lynch here. I can see part of the j00 cases, pretty much what Haze said and then find it odd how she sticks to the vote like that. Feels like she didn't try very hard to understand the motivation behind Elieson's vote which I feel is especially important on a traditionally "easy" lynch. Leaning town on Elieson myself, the way he stuck to and then backed off Manix reads positive to me, wouldn't want to lynch him.

In summary: Shin > j00 > Dormio > Elieson

[Grace]

Manix, why is he lazy scum in your opinion?

the little content provided is very uninspiring and is also kind of weak; trying to push someone for buddying early into d1, particularly on one of the only relevant opinion points (me in this case, in that i was a topic of discussion) is not exactly a Good Case

if snike had continued defending me at say, d2/3, then there might be something there. in the context though it's not good

#67 also reads to me like dormio does not want to contribute to the game unless poked with a very large stick. also Not Townie

[j00]

Refa, you should probably state some of your other cases. You just have some very waffly reads except for me and Paperblade, and in both cases it sorta feels like you're beating a dead horse since the case on me is mainly the Manix vote and Paper for just not doing much. At least try to initiate a new discussion if you feel like you hit a dead end on your cases?

Sorta feel like Kaoz' Shin case is the same, it's based on old posts and there wasn't really any strong conviction behind them in the first place.

I kept my vote on Elieson since I didn't really think his switch to Blitz was very well founded either, but I missed that Kaoz asked him to specify. I don't think his vote on either Manix or Blitz are very good, though I concur that he's at least doing something with his vote to push the game and his response to the suspicions on him has been pretty fair. I obviously don't agree with Blitz' case on me, but it's not worse than say Refa's case at this point and I find voting Shin for meta more bad than scummy.

Snike's second post is very nitpicky and I don't understand why he defends Manix so hard, and his issues with Dormio seems to be because he's apparently defending me hard. I also find him singling out Via weird, but Snike's main suspects seem to be everyone who had issues with Manix in the beginning. His Elieson case is also really flimsy. Also he posts walls that are hard to read.

Regarding Dormio I'd like him to post more, Iris' post also didn't really contribute much, she doesn't really stand out but I feel her Elieson case is based a bit too much on gut and meta.

Need to get down the points against me that I need to address, but Snike is accusing me for dodging Manix's response which I don't agree with? If he had anything more unresolved after the exchange he would have bugged me about it because this is Manix we're talking about, #tunnelingBBM

Kaoz is basically parroting Haze, Haze has a issue with me voting Manix and then Elie for voting Manix, and for me not being aggressive enough to Via. I explained that my Manix vote was part pushing discussion and I'm not going to bother being aggressive.

Keeping my vote on Elieson since I'd rather lynch him than me, I guess I'd lynch Dormio too if that takes off but I'd honestly rather lynch Snike, Kaoz or Refa than him.

[j00]

Also Paper if your not going to post anything useful today at least try to explain your gut reads

at least stop posting your townreads

[j00]

About Dormio, the biggest issue with him is that he's being lazy and uncooperative but I don't really regard it as scummy at this point, right now it just draws unnecessary attention from being obstinate

[j00]

Hopefully back before deadline

[Refa]

Actually, Kaoz brought up a good point about Shin's initial vote (pretty sure he brought it up earlier and just explained it here, but I skimmed past it on my first runthrough), would sheep.

Forgot to mention this earlier, but the reason Dormio is a weaker read to me than j00 is because he played similarly in a past town game (although he had more conviction there). Elieson, you were in that game too, so feel free to tell me if I'm right/wrong about this (honestly, I'd trust your view more than mine considering I was scum that game).

j00, I've already stated a scumread on you, Dormio, and Paperblade (admittedly that doesn't exist anymore because Bizz's townread on him made sense to me, so now it's moreso me being annoyed at him not doing anything). None of my reads have been waffly except for my read on Shin, and for good reason (fuck reading Shin). There's nothing new for me to initiate because most of the active posters I'm not scumreading, and the people that I am scumreading aren't posting. I can't just create discussion out of nowhere like some kind of wizard. Also for complaining about my lack of conviction, you sure don't seem to have much yourself. I didn't even know you were scumreading me/Kaoz until the end of your post (your issues with us seemed to be what you perceived as bad play over scum intent; Snike read was good though). Also while I can appreciate that your Elieson vote is a not me over me vote, I don't like how you're not really putting any effort into pushing me/Kaoz/Snike if we are your top 3 scumreads?

[Refa]

Also you oversimplified my case on you? Like uh, just ISO me and I have added onto my initial case. If that was all that I had to go by, I wouldn't be tunneling for this long.

[Snike]

I have to go in like 5 minutes and I won't be back until like 3 hours before deadline at the earliest. Here are fast thoughts

I am going to say that if my first elie read seemed waffly it's because I later flipped on him when I looked at j00 and dormio in comparison.

Kaoz's response to my question to everyone is important and should be read as such. That attitude of 'Don't have anything to comment on' that he mentioned is what I'm talking about because it sort of brushes the questions manix asked aside without forcing j00 to acknowledge she's wrong on that point and explain why she thought how she did ie get a free pass out of the conversation. That's not townie in my eyes.

j00's latest content also used the buddy accusation against me, which is a weak argument previously addressed.

One of the issues I have with dormio is that he has almost nothing other than his vote/smear on me, which came almost immediately after I voted j00. With that in mind + how j00's cribbing from the same argument, it looks like a chainsaw defense.

and I'm out of time.

[Dormio]

In retrospect, maybe it's better for me to play mafia when I'm not on holidays so that I'm less inclined to spend the entire day playing games and watching anime.

Anyway, I'm here for now and hopefully won't be distracted like I have been for the past couple of hours.

Fake!Edit: I lied, I got dragged into more DotA and other games. I actually started writing this post like 5 hours ago. Still got the post out eventually at least.

So since I'm kind of disconnected from the game right now I'm just going to focus on the probable D1 lynches, which appear to be j00, Elieson, and maybe myself/Shin, for now and reread during the night.

I guess, in regards to Elieson, I feel like he's pushing the Manix/Curly Brace point too hard?

Like, I get the reaction at first and everything, but it gets kind of sketchy with #88 and #89.

Like, his main point against Manix/Curly Brace is that their vote on Shin seems contradictory with their statement that Shin's early game actions weren't alignment indicative and that's fine and all.

Except, in #88, Elieson acknowledges that Manix/Curly Brace did this to get the game moving but still holds it against him in #89 and later posts?

I also don't get the explanation on why he's backing down on Manix/Curly Brace in #96. It's like, he says that Manix has done enough and that he doesn't want to just leave his vote parked on him but nowhere has he mentioned ever dropping any of his suspicion towards Manix/Curly Brace so it's like I don't really get why he'd back down so easily when the expected course of action would probably be to find another means of attack and continue applying pressure on your scumread?

I dunno, just seems really weird to me.

And, as for j00, I don't really get the wagon on him?

I dunno, I don't really have much to say with regards to j00.

Actually, while reading Snike's posts, I did happen to notice this:

@Everyone: What do you think of j00's #47 in response to Manix's #35? This what I'm referring to when I was talking about j00 dodging. It's pretty clear that she read Quote's #40, so why didn't she respond to Manix more directly?

Which is kind of really weird given he had voted for Manix/Curly Brace at the time and his #47 does ignore the arguments in #35 and instead just gives the blanket statement that they're moving the game along which feels kind of like a cop out.

But that by itself isn't really enough to make me vote for him over Elieson right now.

Also, while I'm here, I might as well update my thoughts on Snike.

Or, rather, just tell you all that I don't really feel like voting for Snike anymore given that, aside from me still not liking him expressing townreads that early into the game, I like his content for the most part.

Whatever.

I'll probably be back a little bit before deadline but I wouldn't be too surprised if I missed it given that it happens at around 8AM in my timezone.

##Unvote

##Vote Elieson

[SB.]

Votals 1.7
j00 (4) - Refa, Via, Snike, Haze
Elieson (4) - j00, Paperblade, Iris, Dormio
Shin (2) - Blitz, Kaoz
Dormio (2) - Shin, Manix
Blitz (1) - Elieson

Not Voting (0): None!

You have 9 hours and 7 minutes left in the phase. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Elieson]

@Dormio,

my vote would have been useless on Manix, since nobody else is voting him. It's currently useless on Blitz too, as with 9 hours, a single vote on some other player isn't helping bring us any closer to consolidation.

##Unvote

##Vote j00

Not Me Over Me also the last time I voted Dormio for doing what he's doing now, he flipped town, so i'm hesitant to vote for him right now

[Elieson]

actually @ dormio i'm really bad at pushing cases especially day 1 when there's no actual evidence to work with, you can look back at probably any game i've played and see that i'm historically shitty at pushing cases, and prims and others often write postgames about me not being good at it, so if you're saying "oh look elie's unvoted his prime suspicion and moved on without explaining his thoughts", then you need to re-read my statement and see if you can interpret it in any other way since:

• I never said I feel like Manix is Town (I'm still leaning Manix as likely scum)
• As i said above, my vote on Manix was doing nothing. Continuing to blindly tunnel Manix shelters my eyes from the rest of the game and I'm not all about doing that
• My vote can apply pressure if used properly (one aspect would be to vote in non-tunneling ways), IMO, and Blitz reads to me as big talk and lots of bad cases and fluff, which I've identified
• You yourself just unvoted for the same gosh darn reason that you used when building your reason to vote for me

Or, rather, just tell you all that I don't really feel like voting for Snike anymore given that, aside from me still not liking him expressing townreads that early into the game, I like his content for the most part.

Whatever.

you have a reason to be unhappy with snike

you accept his content anyway

Ok maybe it's not as similar as it is with the explaination you're lumping me with but the point is that me parking my vote and throwing desperation attack after desperation attack at Manix, who nobody else feels is scummy, isn't gonna change anything other than force me to tunnel my reads and probably piss manix off. It's a lose:lose situation, would you rather have me be useless because it sounds like you want me to be tunnely and useless since you of all players should know that on D1, there is no such thing as a strong case unless claims/flips are involved.

[Grace]

I never said I feel like Manix is Town (I'm still leaning Manix as likely scum)

I'm still voting Manix; that's old news now, since he's the hero that town needs but totally doesn't deserve unless we miraculously don't lynch a doc D1

???????

im confused

[Grace]

you drop the vote and don't mention me until #145 in any capacity of a read. which was only ~15 minutes ago. the last mention of me was in #96 and the words used imply a read that is not!scum tbh

so uh. pls explain

##Unvote

##Vote: Elie

[Refa]

Ugh, playing mafia is /effort. Really don't want to lynch Elieson after that last post.

Confirmation biasing hard at this point, but Dormio's post comes across as a Last Ditch Effort™ to save j00 (besides that though, not really seeing the scum intent in the Elie case other than it's kind of nitpicky but town can nitpick too so whatever)? Even disregarding that though, he dismissed his Snike read really easily; town can do the same, but it doesn't come across as genuine (not really seeing the /effort to reevaluate Snike's content). Also what Elieson said about Dormio's read on him being hypocritical (didn't actually catch that mmyself).

Papayabreido, you're still voting Elieson but you haven't updated your read on him in like forever. Current thoughts?

[Grace]

refa i feel like that post is attempting to use Associative Reads Without a Flip; mostly because it fits into your narrative of scum!j00 and if anything, what you said there is only a strike against dormio, not j00

your play is still uninspiring.