Class Changing and Inheritance Thread

[Elite Lord Sigma]

I wanted to gather all of the information on class-changing and inheritance in one thread. This is what has been figured out so far.

Seals

1. Master Seals function identically as in past games.

2. Parallel Seals allow a unit to switch to his/her alternate class (if unpromoted) or other promoted classes in either class set (if promoted). Unlike in Awakening, Parallel Seals do not reset level and cannot move a promoted character down to an unpromoted class.

3. Marriage Seals allow a unit to change to the default class set of another unit with whom they have an S support. The same restrictions that apply to Parallel Seals also apply here. If the partner's base class is a special class (Dark Prince/Princess, Singer, Fox Spirit, Garou, or Villager), or if the two units have the same default class set, the seal instead grants access to the partner's secondary class. If the unit using the seal already has access to their partner's base class via another method (e.g. having the base class as one of their alternate classes), then the seal becomes functionally redundant. If a unit is married to the Avatar, and the Avatar has a second class set identical to his/her spouse's default class set, then the Avatar's spouse instead can reclass to a class set analogous to the Avatar's second class set. Other characters with a special base class (e.g. Azura/Aqua, Nishiki, Flannel, Mozume) all have hidden class sets that become available to their spouses should the spouse have a base class identical to the alternate class of any of these four characters (e.g. Takumi can reclass to Herb Merchant by using a Marriage Seal if he marries Mozume).

4. Buddy Seals allow a unit to change to the default class of another unit with whom s/he has an A+ Support. The same restrictions that apply to Marriage Seals also apply here. If the unit using the seal is the Avatar, then they only need an A Support with a partner of the same gender.

5. Eternal Seals increase the maximum level cap of a promoted unit by five with each use.

6. Child Seals are held by a child unit recruited starting at Chapter 19 in any route. When used, they allow a child unit to promote to a class and advance to a level in accordance with how far the player has progressed through the main story. The child's stats are also increased by an amount appropriate for their level. For example, if Soleil uses a Child Seal after being recruited in her paralogue, she will be promoted to a Level 2 Brave Hero or Bow Knight if the player is at Chapter 19 in the main story. Soleil will receive normal promotion gains as well as stats appropriate for a single level up.

Inheritance

1. Unlike as in Awakening and Genealogy of the Holy War, the children in this game are tied to the father. The only two exceptions to this rule are Shigure (Azura/Aqua's son) and male Kanna (female Avatar's son).

2. Each child joins with a default class set of his/her own. If this default class set does not match the default class set of his/her father, then s/he will first inherit the default class set of that parent.

3. If the default class set of the child matches the default class set of his/her father, the child will instead inherit the father's alternate class set.

4. Finally, the child will inherit a class set from his/her mother. As before, if the mother's default class set is already available to the child by default or via inheritance from his/her father, the mother will instead pass down her alternate class set (including Aqua/Azura's hidden class sets as described earlier).

5. In the rare instance where the child already has both of his her/mother's class sets (i.e. his/her default class set and the class set inherited from his/her father), the child will instead inherit an analogous class set corresponding to the mother's default class set.

Analogous and Hidden Class Sets

Should a situation arise where an analogous or hidden class set is needed as described above, they are as follows. Double tipped arrows indicate analogous classes, whereas a single tipped arrow indicates a hidden class for a given special class.

Samurai <-> Mercenary

Oni Savage <-> Fighter

Lance Fighter <-> Knight

Bowman <-> Outlaw

Ninja <-> Cavalier

Spellcaster <-> Dark Mage

Singer -> Rod Knight

Fox Spirit -> Herb Merchant

Garou -> Outlaw

Villager -> Herb Merchant

Priest/Priestess and Dark Prince/Princess do not have any analogs nor hidden classes. A unit in a situation where an analogous class set would be needed involving a class that does not have an analog (i.e. any special class, Herb Merchant, or a healing class) would not be able to use a Marriage Seal or Buddy Seal at all.

Unknown Information

1. What classes Eponine receives if Nyx is her mother remains unreported. Since Zero and Nyx have the same two class sets, it remains to be seen whether or not Eponine receives a third class set to match the number of options available to the children of other couples. Eponine inherits Spellcaster in place of Dark Mage. See post #27 for proof.

2. Following the logic outlined above, another odd case pops with Lutz if he has Belka as his mother. Lutz starts as a Wyvern Rider and inherits the Fighter class set from his father, Arthur/Harold. However, these two class sets also happen to be Belka's two class sets. I would think Lutz would thus also inherit the Cavalier class set from Arthur/Harold, but I'm not 100% sure about this particular scenario. It turns out that Lutz actually inherits Pegasus Warrior, not Cavalier. See post #27 for proof.

3. The exact mechanics of using a Marriage Seal with the Avatar as a unit's spouse remain a bit murky. Namely, the Avatar gives his second class set (which is chosen by the player during character creation) to his spouse by default. However, if this chosen class set matches the default class set of his/her spouse, it remains unclear what happens if the spouse uses a Marriage Seal. I have read one report of Orochi being able to reclass to Dark Mage after marrying an Avatar with Spellcaster as an alternate class set, so more research needs to be done. There a system where classes are considered analogous to each other. See post #80 for evidence and more information.

4. If the Avatar marries a child character, the order of priority for classes seems not to have been reported. If Kanna has a parent whose base class matches the chosen alternate class of the Avatar, it remains to be seen whether the class set that parent inherited from the mother or the father is passed down first. The class set received from the constant parent has priority. See post #80 for evidence.

5. The Villager class remains a bit of a mystery. I have read reports that Mozume cannot pass this class to a husband or buddy via Marriage Seal or Buddy Seal. However, I have not seen any definite information as to whether she can pass Villager down to her children. Villager can be used by any of Mozume's children. See post #27 for proof.

6. Whether or not growth rates are determined using the same formula as in Awakening (Father's growth rates + Mother's growth rates + Child's growth rates)/3 + Class growth rates) is yet to be discovered.

7. Whether or not there is a limit on the number of times a unit can use an Eternal Seal has not been reported.

So, there remain a few mysteries to solve, but it seems that the community at large almost has everything figured out. Let me know if I missed anything.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Elite Lord Sigma

[Pokechu]

This is real helpful. Thanks! : ]

One thing, though.. what about Skills? Do they work like in Awakening, where the last skill gets passed down? And could you use a Master Seal after you used a Marriage Seal? Let's say I use a Marriage Seal on my Avatar to turn into let's say Lancer (Oboro's class). Could I then use a Master Seal on my Avatar so they turn into Holy Lancer? Or can I only access their base class, and never their final?

Also, I've heard that learning skills seems to be different. Another example; let's say I choose Mercenary as my 2nd class for my Avatar. If I get her to her final starting class (White Blood/Dark Blood I think?) and use a Parallel Seal, I won't be able to access Mercenary, right? Because Mercenary is a base class while White/Dark Blood is final. Then how'd I get the skills from Mercenary?

this turned out to be more than one thing tho sorry

[astrophys]

EDIT/ADDENDUM: We need to figure out if growth rates are inherited Awakening Style. Maximum stat mods are known to be inherited Awakening style, that said, complete with the +1 child mod.

As for post #2…. That's been answered elsewhere…. you could Parallel Seal between White/Dark Blood and Hero/Bow Knight, but if you go to Hero/Bow Knight you don't immediately start learning the Hero/Bow Knight skills… rather, if you're above the level requirement (which you are, due to being promoted), you first learn the Mercenary skills at the rate of one per level. Then, if you've met or exceeded the level requirements for the Hero/Bow Knight skills, you start learning all those which your level qualifies you at 1 per level.

Examples:

For some reason, you never class changed until level 15 White Blood. You become a Hero. You learn the 1st Mercenary skill at 16 Hero, the 2nd Mercenary skill at 17 Hero, Sol at 18 Hero, and Axebreaker at 19 Hero.

But if you promoted to level 1 White Blood and then Parallel Sealed to 1 Hero, you'd get the 1st Mercenary skill at 2 Hero and the 2nd Mercenary skill at 3 Hero. Then if you wanted to you could get to level 5 and pick up Sol, or class change back to White Blood (if you had the seal) and get White Blood's level 5 skill. If you then then returned to Hero after getting to White Blood 15 from the latter case, you could then pick up Sol at say Hero 16 and Axebreaker at Hero 17.

Edited July 6, 2015 by astrophys

[Sky Soldier]

One other thing I would add is whether children can inherit Dark Prince/Princess (besides Kanna), Fox Spirit (besides Kinu), Garou (besides Velour), or Villager.

I can confirm that Shigure cannot inherit Singer from Azura, but CAN inherit Dark Prince from the Avatar. I don't know if other kids can inherit the Dark Prince set.

EDIT

Also, inheriting unpromoted class skills ONLY works if you have access to that unpromoted class. For instance, if you change to a Bow Knight because you have access to Mercenary, you cannot get Outlaw skills from Bow Knight unless you have (or potentially could have through an already existing S-support or A+ support) access to Outlaw itself.

Also, child seals. We know how they work. The only thing we need to compile is the level that the child & enemies are set at for each chapter.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Sky Soldier

[Meh]

How many times can an Eternal Seal be used?

[Elite Lord Sigma]

One other thing I would add is whether children can inherit Dark Prince/Princess (besides Kanna), Fox Spirit (besides Kinu), Garou (besides Velour), or Villager.

I can confirm that Shigure cannot inherit Singer from Azura, but CAN inherit Dark Prince from the Avatar. I don't know if other kids can inherit the Dark Prince set.

I've heard from multiple sources that Dark Prince/Princess can be passed down to any child, and I've heard from another member here that the same applies to Fox Spirit and Garou. I think it is unlikely that the same restriction would apply to Villager given these cases, but I have seen no definitive proof either way.

[hauteclere]

If a child inherits a secondary class from their constant parent that's the same as their variable parent's base class, will the child inherit the variable parent's secondary class?

For example, if Charlotte (Fighter, Rod Knight) married Flannel (Garou, Fighter), would Velour have access to Rod Knight, or would she just be stuck with Garou and Fighter?

[Azz]

She would just be stuck with Fighter I believe.

[hauteclere]

She would just be stuck with Fighter I believe.

Awww that's no fun. Thanks, though!

Also another question: is it possible to have an A+ support and an S support at the same time (so you can have a buddy seal and a marriage seal), or can you only have one or the other?

[gayserbeam]

When you marry Joker to Aqua, Shigure just gets Pegasus Warrior and Rod Knight. If you marry Nishiki to Orochi, Kinu just gets Garou and Spellcaster.

So I can almost certainly confirm that when the classes the father (or Aqua/F!Kamui) gives the child include the mother's base class, then the child does not inherit the mother's secondary class.

So in the case of Eponine with Nyx as her mother, she will likely just get Outlaw and Dark Mage.

[egobarrier]

When you marry Joker to Aqua, Shigure just gets Pegasus Warrior and Rod Knight. If you marry Nishiki to Orochi, Kinu just gets Garou and Spellcaster.

So I can almost certainly confirm that when the classes the father (or Aqua/F!Kamui) gives the child include the mother's base class, then the child does not inherit the mother's secondary class.

So in the case of Eponine with Nyx as her mother, she will likely just get Outlaw and Dark Mage.

Do you mind sharing pics? Kisaragi from Takumi x Oboro has access to Herb Merchant, so at least in some cases the mother will pass on a secondary class. http://i.imgur.com/wiotwlw.png

[Azz]

Awww that's no fun. Thanks, though!

Also another question: is it possible to have an A+ support and an S support at the same time (so you can have a buddy seal and a marriage seal), or can you only have one or the other?

Yes you can have both an S support and A+ support.

I also must add, A+ supports are not shared between the two characters so the other can get an A+ with someone else.

E.g Camilla can A+ Luna but Luna does not A+ Camilla(Unless you want her to)so therefore Luna can potentially A+ Belka.

[gayserbeam]

Do you mind sharing pics? Kisaragi from Takumi x Oboro has access to Herb Merchant, so at least in some cases the mother will pass on a secondary class. http://i.imgur.com/wiotwlw.png

Here are thumbnails of Joker!Shigure, who is a Golden Kite Warrior and can parallel into Falcoknight, Butler, Strategist, and the Dragon classes (he was in them for a while via a marriage seal with the Avatar, so now he can parallel into them)

[Frozenkappa]

Characters can have 1 S support and 1 A+ support. A+ supports are not mutually exclusive. Character A could A+ Character B but then Character B can A+ Character C

From the Unit Optimization Thread, a list of A+:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PGXnMa16kR2jWVctPLyffxNqJySKKqxrb6antWnfCag/htmlview

Skill inheritance

The kids do inherit the skill in the last slot like in Awakening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUNCAGvculQ
Kamui has Hoshido and Aqua has Special Song in their last slot. (This isn't the best example as the kids join at the end so you need to check the next video). Kanna and Shigure inherit Hoshido and Luck +4. Like in Awakening Special Song/Dance is not inherited and the next skill is passed on (Luck +4). They also have their personal skills and the 2 class skills from Nohr Princess and Pegasus Warrior respectifully.

[astrophys]

I just corresponded with another SerenesForest user, one who had the Tsubaki x Aqua pairing, to confirm what happens with regards to class inheritance if a child cannot receive Aqua's Pegasus Knight (due to already having it) and isn't Shigure.

Answer:

As expected, they actually DO inherit Rod Knight, just like Shiugre did.

User mimasho tested with the example of Aqua!Matoi.

mimasho said:

======================================================================
Alright, just verified; Matoi is able to second seal to Rod Knight and Samurai, so yes, you are correct ! * U *
Hope that helps ~!
======================================================================

[Medeus]

I've heard from multiple sources that Dark Prince/Princess can be passed down to any child, and I've heard from another member here that the same applies to Fox Spirit and Garou. I think it is unlikely that the same restriction would apply to Villager given these cases, but I have seen no definitive proof either way.

Villager is interesting if it can only be inherited by the children. With Garou, Dark Prince/Princess and Fox Spirit, it would make sense that the spouses and buddies wouldn't have normal access to it since the classes are tied to a group by blood, so neither the spouse or buddies would be able to transform since they never inherited the ability. With Villager however, nothing about it implies that it's tied to blood, so logically it should be available to the spouses/buddies as well since all it requires is a change in their careers.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Medeus

[gayserbeam]

Villager is interesting if it can only be inherited by the children. With Garou, Dark Prince/Princess and Fox Spirit, it would make sense that the spouses and buddies wouldn't have normal access to it since the classes are tied to a group by blood, so neither the spouse or buddies would be able to transform since they never inherited the ability. With Villager however, nothing about it implies that it's tied to blood, so logically it should be available to the spouses/buddies as well since all it requires is a change in their careers.

The villager's shtick is their "potential" and perhaps that is genetic. It's not like you ask your friends to teach how to weild a lance like a doofus and grow really well

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

Like Robin, Is Kamui the best parent for the kids?

[Sky Soldier]

Like Robin, Is Kamui the best parent for the kids?

Kamui doesn't pass down every class like Robin does. Kamui only passes down Nohr Prince/Princess and/or the second class that you choose at the beginning of the game. That said, Kamui does have good growths and cap modifiers that you can choose.

[Leif]

If the Avatar marries a 2nd Gen child, will Kanna get the +1 bonuses to all stat modifiers, like the 2nd gen children did, or is it just like awakening and Kanna will not get them?

Edited July 11, 2015 by Leif

[ShotaLordNoctis]

will female kanna inherit the fox/garou clases if her dad is nishiki or flannel? I doubt it but im asking for a friend

[Landmaster]

will female kanna inherit the fox/garou clases if her dad is nishiki or flannel? I doubt it but im asking for a friend

Female Kanna's dad will never be Nishiki or Flannel; it's always the Avatar. If her mother is Kinu or Velour, she should, yes~

[AstraSage]

Here are thumbnails of Joker!Shigure, who is a Golden Kite Warrior and can parallel into Falcoknight, Butler, Strategist, and the Dragon classes (he was in them for a while via a marriage seal with the Avatar, so now he can parallel into them)

Just a small question to confirm something I realized: did Joker!Shigure ever had a parallel seal used on him before the marriage one was used?

[TheWerdna]

Apparently if Zero is paired with Nyx, then Eponne gets Spellcaster of all thing.

No idea what class Lutz gets if you pair Arthur with Berka.

[Elite Lord Sigma]

So, after spending a lot of time playing the game myself, I have answers for a few of the questions on the original post.

First, I can confirm that Eponine receives Spellcaster if Nyx is her mother:

[spoiler=Eponine]

Second, I can also confirm that Villager CAN be inherited from Mozume.

[spoiler=Soleil]

The most interesting development, however, arose when I recruited Lutz after Arthur married Belka. If you guessed that Cavalier would be his third class set, it turns out that you were wrong. His third class set is actually . . .

[spoiler=Lutz]

. . . Pegasus Warrior.

So, taking these new facts into account along with what Keyser said about pairing Nishiki with Orochi, I think the inheritance rules can be revised to read as follows.

1. Each child's first class set corresponds to the default class set he or she has when first recruited.

2. The second class set is inherited from the child's set parent. If the child's first class set is not the same as the set parent's default class set, then the child will inherit the parent's default class set.

3. If the child's first class set is the same as the set parent's default class set, the child will instead inherit the set parent's alternate class set. A special case for this rule is Shigure, who starts as a Pegasus Warrior. Since Singer is a class exclusive to Aqua/Azura, he will instead inherit the Rod Knight class set from her.

4. The child's third class set is inherited from the child's variable parent. If neither of the child's first two class sets are the same as the variable parent's default class set, then the child will inherit the variable parent's default class set.

5. If either of the child's first two class sets are the same as the variable parent's default class set, the child will instead inherit the class set analogous to the variable parent's class set.

The examples above, along with the example of Orochi marrying Kamui that was mentioned in the original post, make it clear that the game has some sort of system that creates certain pairs of class sets. These pairs seem to consist of one class set from Hoshido and one class set from Nohr for the purposes of child inheritance as well as Kamui's spouse using a Marriage Seal. From the information we have so far, it seems that two such pairs are Spellcaster <-> Dark Mage and Pegasus Warrior <-> Wyvern Rider. The analogous class sets seem to perform similar roles to one another. As such, a preliminary list could be written based on this conjecture.

Samurai <-> Mercenary (unconfirmed)

Oni Savage <-> Fighter (unconfirmed)

Lance Fighter <-> Knight (unconfirmed)

Ninja <-> Outlaw (unconfirmed)

Spellcaster <-> Dark Mage (confirmed)

Pegasus Warrior <-> Wyvern Rider (confirmed)

Priest/Priestess <-> Rod Knight (unconfirmed)

Herb Merchant <-> ?????

Cavalier <-> ?????

Bowman <-> ?????

That should settle most of the questions.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Elite Lord Sigma