LHM + HHM Playthrough: S-Rank + Max Tactician Stars

[Brinzy]

Looks like I've missed a lot.

First and foremost, I'm really surprised you were able to get the exp and tactics ranking in chapter 16. I always thought it was impossible.

Second, have you considered using the shops in chapter 18? The Funds for this chapter is 14000, but this is because Eliwood's version does not have the Elysian Whip (the one normally found in 19x). So if you steal that and the Speedwings Guiding Ring, you will already be 4000g 6000g over the total possible funds amount, which would be 6800g 8800g over what you need. This doesn't count the numerous Pure Waters available or the extra Flux tome. I assume that the reason you don't want to use it is because you're close to the Silver Card, but I brought it up because you restarted your chapter for an Iron Lance, one that you likely won't need much in the next two chapters, especially the second one. If you didn't lose anything from it, I would just leave it alone for now.

Third, do you plan on recruiting Lucius? I've heard of LTC runs that skipped him. Although this is ranked, you seem to want to shave off as many turns as possible over the next few maps.

Finally, I think with some RN abuse (or maybe none at all), Bartre can still make a comeback in Chapter 18. The Pegasus Knights and Shamans are pretty frail if I recall. I didn't look at their stats in my recording, but I know they had 19-20 HP and were getting one hit by Hector's Hand Axe, so it would be reasonable to assume that Iron/Steel Axe Bartre could get easy one hits.

Edited some misinformation.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Brinzy

[ruadath]

First and foremost, I'm really surprised you were able to get the exp and tactics ranking in chapter 16. I always thought it was impossible.

Thanks! Hopefully there are many more occasions of this to come (I'm looking at you, Victory or Death)

Second, have you considered using the shops in chapter 18? The Funds for this chapter is 14000, but this is because Eliwood's version does not have the Elysian Whip (the one normally found in 19x). So if you steal that and the Speedwings, you will already be 4000g over the total possible funds amount, which would be 6800g over what you need. This doesn't count the numerous Pure Waters available or the extra Flux tome. I assume that the reason you don't want to use it is because you're close to the Silver Card, but I brought it up because you restarted your chapter for an Iron Lance, one that you likely won't need much in the next two chapters, especially the second one. If you didn't lose anything from it, I would just leave it alone for now.

I didn't lose anything from buying the Iron Lance, since there are plenty of surplus funds in Chapter 16 thanks to Lyn's White Gem, enough so that I sold the Red Gem as well. I know about the extra Elysian Whip in 18; I'm planning to use the boost to funds from that to sell the White Gem there. Also, I don't think there is a Speedwing on HHM; there is a Guiding Ring though.

And yes, Silver Card is the reason for limited purchases.

Third, do you plan on recruiting Lucius? I've heard of LTC runs that skipped him. Although this is ranked, you seem to want to shave off as many turns as possible over the next few maps.

Definitely recruiting Lucius; this is a completion run, not an LTC. Otherwise we wouldn't be bothered with Bartre, right?

Finally, I think with some RN abuse (or maybe none at all), Bartre can still make a comeback in Chapter 18. The Pegasus Knights and Shamans are pretty frail if I recall. I didn't look at their stats in my recording, but I know they had 19-20 HP and were getting one hit by Hector's Hand Axe, so it would be reasonable to assume that Iron/Steel Axe Bartre could get easy one hits.

I've thought about something similar to this too. I'm definitely bringing Bartre to 17; I'm currently in the middle of that chapter right now. I might bring him to 18 as well, as you said; the idea being that Raven has high enough base stats that we can afford to bench him for a little bit and bring him back later without hurting him (as we are doing with Guy, although right now I'm not sure Guy will ever make a comeback; at least he got the boss kill in Chapter 14 so he's still roughly on par with most of our units).

It seems more and more, however, that Bartre will probably have to take an early promotion; I don't think he is worth the effort of raising much beyond at most 15/5. In particular, I don't see him making substantial contributions to endgame. Do you?

Edited July 29, 2015 by ruadath

[Brinzy]

If you get 6150 in Victory or Death and then unlock Value of Life, I'm going to lose my mind.

I don't see Bartre being very substantial. He's gonna need an early promotion to get Karla, and he's definitely not endgame material when compared to your other very strong units. An early promotion will compromise this. Aim for Karla and then dump him.

[ruadath]

If you get 6150 in Victory or Death and then unlock Value of Life, I'm going to lose my mind.

I have some tentative plans for this one, but I think I would rather not spoil them and leave it as a surprise ;)

[ruadath]

Chapter 17 is going pretty well so far. Currently at turn 5: Raven has just been recruited and given an Iron Sword, the main group of enemies are mostly dead (14 remain on map), and I've got about 600 EXP so far. Main strategy was to have cavs press forward with palys rescue-dropping Hector (unfortunately had to use Wolf Beil once, which puts me down to 8/35) and Matthew, while Bartre and Oswin play clean-up at the entrance (almost done now, only the Shaman remains, though Bartre is almost dead).

EDIT: I might post the first half of the playthrough prematurely, because it's going to be a long one, and managins ~12-13 turns (my guess at the target time) of screenshots at once will be rather difficult.

Edited July 29, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Team: Hector*, Marcus, Lowen, Matthew, Priscilla, Oswin, Bartre, Sain, Kent, Florina

All the mounts + thief for treasure + Bartre for EXP + Oswin for useful Merlinus guard

Formation:

The initial attack here is critical since we want to blow through the first three enemies and then proceed to have all the mounts storm through the castle. Sain and Lowen are the western of the two identical pairs in this image.

*currently being redone*

Edited July 29, 2015 by ruadath

[Brinzy]

Yuck, Bartre is so underwhelming. Even with constant Speed gains, he doesn't seem that great. Why did they make Dorcas and Bartre have crippling flaws?

Also, how do you post your stats in that nice template?

[ruadath]

Also, how do you post your stats in that nice template?

I put in the code box (the thing that looks like "< >" in your editing menu)

Current status: 10 turn clear (8 turn surplus!), got all treasure, got 1100+ EXP (Bartre lv 8, Matthew almost lv 10), recruited Lucius/Raven, got enough funds (~25500, just barely over the required 25200) and Mine. However, I might want to re-run to avoid use of Wolf Beil and/or get some better level ups... and plan a little bit better so I don't have to rig a Sain crit on the boss.

Edited July 29, 2015 by ruadath

[Brinzy]

10 turns is the fastest I've seen that chapter done in a ranked run. I look forward to seeing however it ends up.

[ruadath]

It's the fastest possible to get all of the treasure. The reason is as follows: the enemy thief opens the door to north room on turn 6, and grabs the Silver Sword on turn 7. Matthew steals the Lockpick from him on turn 7, and open the other chest for the Hero/Knight (can't remember which one) Crest on turn 8. Then you use a massive rescue chain to get Matthew dropped outside an already opened (Door Key) southern room by the end of turn 8. He opens the remaining two chests on turns 9 and 10. Meanwhile all but 1 of your mounted units had to take part in the rescue chain. The one I kept out was Lowen, and I had the closest one be Sain, who could still make it to the boss in 2 turns thanks to being promoted. He, Lowen, and Hector basically have to finish the chapter from there.

[ruadath]

Not sure that I'll be able to complete this whole thing in one go (I have something to do later tonight), but I'll at least get started. Since I know what I'm doing, I can make the posts live, since I doubt I will have to backtrack for anything.

Formation and Preparations:

A little different this time. Marcus and Kent are on the left. Equipment is a bit different, and very important too.

Hector: Wolf Beil (9)

Marcus: Hand Axe (12)

Lowen: Iron Lance (45), Steel Lance (29)

Matthew: Iron Sword (10)

Priscilla: Heal (30), Mend (20), Iron Sword (10)

Oswin: Iron Lance (11), Slim Lance (30)

Bartre: Iron Axe (22), Hand Axe (16)

Sain: Iron Sword (23), Iron Axe (7), Door Key (not important)

Kent: Iron Lance (37), Javelin (18), Iron Sword (38)

Florina: Javelin (12), Door Key

Turn 1: Oswin hits the myrmidon from the south. Florina takes him out from behind with the Javelin. Lowen rides in and lances the mercenary from the west; Matthew finishes him from the south.

Already a better result; the level is superior! Priscilla heals Matthew from the west. Sain doubles the Knight from the west with his sword, and Bartre finishes him with the Iron Axe from the east. Kent equips the Javelin, rescues Matthew, and moves south of Bartre. Marcus equips the Hand Axe, moves west of Bartre, and trade-equips Bartre with his own Hand Axe. Hector fills in the gap.

It is important to see what is being done here. Unlike last time, the three units in range of the eastern archers (and the nomad from the north), Bartre, Marcus and Kent are all equipped with ranged weapons which mean they can counter the enemy attacks. This will allow us to blitz through the area, except without (hopefully) Bartre and Florina nearly dying like last time. We also haven't relied on any lucky criticals; last time, we already had 2 at this point (the RNG was already set up for this, but still).

Enemy Turn 1: Two archers attack Sain and miss. Another archer attacks Bartre, misses, and gets hit by the counterattack. Same with Kent. The nomad rides down and double Bartre, who at least gets his counter.

Turn 2: Oswin strikes the nearest enemy archer from the east. Lowen takes Matthew from Kent and rides north. Kent finishes the archer Oswin attacked, and Bartre kills the nomad from the east. Priscilla heals Bartre, then Marcus grabs and rides north as well. Hector moves up to take Matthew, Sain rides up, and things end up looking like this

Enemy Turn 2: The cav charges Bartre, giving him a nice level.

Archers attacks Sain, Kent, and Bartre.

Turn 3: Florina trades Oswin for his Iron Lance and finishes the closest archer. Lowen attacks the Knight.

Kent kills the northern archer. Oswin grabs his lance back and kills the cav. Bartre finishes the eastern archer. Hector advances and drops Matthew, as Marcus does with Priscilla. Sain takes out the archer from below (Axe).

Enemy Turn 3: A couple of Knights attack Lowen, and a cav suicides on Sain. The main mass of enemies almost reaches the party. Raven begins to move forward.

Turn 4: Matthew takes out the weakened knight from below. Marcus moves east of Sain grabs his Iron axe, but attacks the nomad NE of him with the Hand Axe; Hector moves east of Marcus, grabs the Iron Axe, and finishes him off. Kent takes out the archer with his Javelin, and Sain kills the other nomad with the Iron Sword. Priscilla heals Lowen, and Lowen trades his Iron Lance to Sain for the Iron Sword (equipping it), and moves into range of the Hammer bandit.

Oswin and Bartre kill the final archer, and Florina gets her Javelin back.

Enemy Turn 4: The hammer bandit dies on Lowen. Raven moves closer.

Turn 5: Kent trades his Javelin over to Lowen, then kills the enemy archer for a very solid level.

Priscilla recruits Raven, who then trades her for the Iron Sword.

Look at these ridiculous starting stats! They're better than Guy's! (and he has far superior growths!)

Hector trades his Axe back to Sain. Matthew moves up, Sain rescues him, and moves as far NW as he can. Lowen moves above him and drops Matthew east to aggro the second enemy thief. Marcus gives Hector his Hand Axe, then rescues him and pulls as far north as he can.

Down south, Florina moves into range of the Shaman with the Javelin (Bartre follows), and Oswin begins to journey back outside the castle.

Enemy Turn 5: The shaman attacks Florina and gets countered. A pair of archers attacks Marcus and Matthew, and the second enemy thief attacks Matthew (the first one opens the door to the north treasure room). Since we're at the halfway point of the intended turn count, I will note that we are a bit above the halfway EXP mark, at 575.

Turn 6: Matthew kills the thief from above, Bartre kills the Shaman, Florina trades him the Door Key (if he hasn't already), then starts pulling away.

Not exceptional, but at least he gets the important speed proc (we want him to hit 20 by 19xx to steal from the enemy thieves on that chapter).

Lowen takes out the archer from the west, and then Priscilla heals him; even though he is near full health, this is the last chance she will have to heal him, and the injured Matthew and Kent won't be seeing any more combat (and she will have opportunities to heal them if we need the EXP). Sain moves in front of the doorway to the archer (and to aggro the Javelin Knight), while Raven moves east. 713 EXP.

Turn 7: Matthew steals the enemy thief's Lockpick. Sain moves below the treasure chest, everyone north (sans Lowen, Hector) get in position for the big rescue chain. Bartre opens the door.

{image 16}

Hector Hand Axes the Knight, Raven attacks the archer, and Lowen takes out the other archer.

Enemy Turn 7: The reinforcements charge Oswin, and the injured Javelin Knight goes after Lowen but misses. The archer Raven injured kills one of the green soldiers. 784 EXP.

Turn 8: Matthew gets the Knight Crest. Then he gets rescue dropped by Sain to Priscilla to Kent to Marcus to Florina to Bartre (who drops him), leaving him in position to grab the Unlock staff next turn.

Lowen OHKO's the enemy thief with the Steel Lance to get the Silver Sword, and then Hector Hand Axes the Knight (again) from a position where he will aggro the enemy mage).

Raven charges east, but does not attack the archer.

Enemy Turn 8: Some cavs attack Oswin at the bottom, the mage dies on Hector. The enemy archer kills one of the green soldier, and the remaining one misses him on the other phase. This will be some nice bonus EXP; it wasn't strictly necessary, but now we can probably afford to have Priscilla refrain from healing for the rest of the chapter. 918 EXP

Turn 9: Raven recruits Lucius, who is squeakly clean new from being neglected in Lyn Mode. Lucius blasts the nearby enemy archer, standing at the top of the cell so he aggros one of the Javelin Knights near Bauker. Sain rides up to Hector and takes his Hand Axe, while Hector and Lowen charge forward.

Matthew gets the Unlock Staff, and the rest of the cavs continue to move south. Oswin kills a nomad.

Enemy Turn 9: A cav charges Oswin giving him a level up; Oswin breaks his Iron Lance (2nd broken weapon of the game, both Iron Lances!)

That is a beautiful level for Oswin.

One of Bauker's guard attacks Hector, and the other attacks Lucius and gets hurt heavily in the counter. Two archers attack Sain.

Turn 10: I was disappointed here, since Javelin!Lowen and Iron Axe!Sain can't kill Bauker and I thought I was still going to have to rig a crit... but then I realized Steel Lance!Lowen and Hand Axe!Sain can take him out!

Anyway, Lucius finishes the Knight, Matthew opens the final chest for a Hero Crest, Kent trade-chains to Oswin via Marcus his Iron Lance, and Oswin kills something.

Lowen charges Bauker with the Steel Lance (we'll let Sain get the kill since there is no point in overleveling Lowen); he gets hurt pretty badly in the counter.

Lowen takes him down to 20 HP, which is exactly what Sain can dish out with two blows of the Hand Axe!

Sain, of course, never fails when it comes to leveling up.

And Hector clears the level with all of our goal accomplished! No Wolf Beil, no critical hits, got the mine, Bartre and Matthew got trained, satisfied all of the 5 star requirements (1125 EXP), and a 10 turn clear!

Edited July 30, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Alright, the 10-turn strategy has been posted! Let me know what you guys think!

EDIT: And, of course, before I forget...

Name:     Lv.XP  HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
Hector:   10.43  28  15  10  13  7   14  3 (C support Eliwood)
Oswin:    11.16  29  15  9   6   3   15  5
Matthew:   9.46  24  9   10  18  5   5   1
Serra:     6.06  20  6   7   13  10  4   8
Eliwood:   5.64  20  8   8   11  10  8   2 (C support Hector)
Marcus:    2.47  32  16  16  12  8   10  8
Rebecca:   8.22  22  10  8   12  7   7   3
Lowen:     9.64  30  14  10  12  8   10  3
Bartre:    7.95  34  14  7   8   5   5   1
Dorcas:    7.88  34  10  10  8   6   3   0
Guy:       7.30  28  11  17  17  6   8   3
Merlinus:  9.00  22  0   8   9   16  6   2
Erk:       6.66  22  9   9   12  5   3   7
Priscilla: 3.77  BASE
Lyn:       8.45  22  9   12  16  10  5   1
Sain:      2.13  34  21  10  18  8  14   4
Kent:      9.25  28  13  9   14  3   9   3
Florina:   9.75  22  12  11  16  12  7   9
Wil:       4.76  21  8   6   7   6   6   1
Raven:     5.12  BASE
Lucius:    3.86  BASE

Edited July 30, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

If possible, I would appreciate some comments/discussion on Kent vs. Lowen:

vs.

Who do you think is better? And what role do you see them playing for the rest of the campaign? Do you think it would be a good idea to choose one and make them a main team member. Or should I alternate between the two of them (cavs do tend to pick up more EXP then other units per chapter)? Let me know what your thoughts on this are.

Edited July 30, 2015 by ruadath

[Elieson]

Kent is the worst.

With your EXP rank demands always breathing down your neck, I'd alternate between the two when possible. Lowen's looking fine since his +1 CON over Kent means that for all weapons sans Iron S/L, he's getting +1 AS to keep up with Kent. His 14 strength is pretty nice, and that luck makes him more accurate and all, even if it's just by a bit

[Brinzy]

Interesting strategy for Chapter 17.

I would have to agree with the above. Getting the exp between both of them is ideal, but if I had to just choose one, it would be Lowen for the extra Con and his higher durability.

[ruadath]

I'm wondering if you guys have any thoughts on how soon I need to bring Eliwood and Lyn back to start gaining levels to get Linus Chapter 24. Currently we're at Hector Lv 10, Lyn Lv 8, and Eliwood Lv 5, which means not even halfway there! Am I running too far behind, or do you think the forced chapters (20/21/22) will be enough to raise Eliwood and Lyn to proper levels?

Also I assume you guys agree that Jerme's map is the superior one, right?

Edited July 31, 2015 by ruadath

[Elieson]

I prefer Kenneth's map honestly.

If you can acquire his Purge (dunno if you can), that's worth 1750 more than Jerme's LightBrand. Alternatively, there's a Speedwings in Kenneth's chapter that doesn't exist in Jerme's. Both include one promotion item though. There's just more money in his chapter;

what are the Funds rank for it?

Also while Kenneth has walls on the inside, it's a million times easier to navigate. Snow sucks, especially for the amount of mounts you're using.

*edit* nevermind I forgot that Kenneth's has just a Blue gem not a White gem.

Kenneth:
••Chest••
• Guiding Ring
• Blue Gem
• Talisman

-Droppable-
-(Aura or Purge)
-Speedwings
-Thunder

--Stealable--
--Lockpick x4



Jerme:
••Chest••
•Talisman
•White Gem
•Bolting
•Hero Crest

-Droppable-
Door Key
Short Spear
Flux
Light Brand

--Stealable--
Door Key

Edited July 30, 2015 by Elieson

[ruadath]

The problem (or rather, one of many) with Kenneth's map, however, is the issue of unlocking it, I think. I've already put a reasonable number of levels into Bartre and Guy, a couple into Dorcas, and plan to use Raven (and probably Bartre) a substantial amount before then. On the other hand, I'm trying to keep both Priscilla and Serra at low levels (between the two of them, they haven't even hit 200 EXP yet); while I'll use Erk and possibly Lucius a bit, I'm not sure that it will be enough to counteract the amount that I will use Raven and Bartre.

I think the Eliwood/Lyn issue is the more pressing one, honestly. Do you have any thoughts on that, Elieson (or anyone)?

One relevant detail to that issue might be deployment for the next chapter. I haven't worked out the details yet, but the EXP requirement is relatively low (700 EXP). If so, it might be possible to mount rush the chapter in ~4 turns. In that case, I already have 4 of my 6 spots locked (Hector, Marcus, Sain Kent/Lowen). I also probably want Priscilla (healer), and for the final spot, I want someone to gain EXP from the northern route. I was originally thinking of taking Bartre or Raven (probably the latter) up that route, but perhaps Eliwood or Lyn could fare just as well?

EDIT: Although a small problem might be that Eliwood is too slow to double the pirates, and Lyn is too high a level (8) compared to the pirates (4/5) to gain a significant amount of EXP. Perhaps it might just be a better idea to take Raven...

Edited July 30, 2015 by ruadath

[Balcerzak]

I'll buck the trend and say Kent for Sain support, but honestly, that's probably not the right choice.

[Paper Jam]

What I do is deploy Lyn and Eliwood in chapters 17x and 21 and use them to grind the arena as much as I can (i.e. until turns 10 and 9, respectively). They get about 30 experience per fight and do pretty well against brigands and other axe users. Particularly with Ninian enabling one of them to fight twice each turn in chapter 21 (and considering that Ninian and Eliwood are both forced deployments in that chapter anyway), they can get quite a bit of experience that way.

It's certainly well worth the effort of getting Lyn's and Eliwood's level high enough to unlock Linus' version of chapter 24, since the 5-star Tactics par for Linus' version is so much higher than for Lloyd's version.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Paper Jam

[Brinzy]

You get 30 xp per kill? When I made an attempt on Chapter 21 with Eli, he only got 10 xp twice... but he did end up against two foot soldiers, so...

Either way, yeah, the arena should be a nice place to get them experience.

As for Kent, the supporting option would be very nice for Sain, and it isn't like Kent is much further behind Lowen.

[ruadath]

Eliwood wouldn't get to the Arena on Chapter 17x quickly enough that I'd consider it worth training him. He probably wouldn't be able to get there until at least 1 full turn after it is possible for me to clear the chapter!

I'm still undecided on the team for 17x... not sure whether or not the mount rush is a good idea and/or who should go north (though I am leaning toward Raven).

Edited July 31, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Anyone here know how the Devil Axe RNG works? I may want to rig things such that the pirate who wields it blows up on Canas.

EDIT: Never mind, figured it out. It just rolls an extra number after checking for critical.

Edited July 31, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Alright, so I think I have figured out a reasonable strat for Chapter 17x, but I don't think I will get around to finishing/posting the results today. My team will be as follows

Hector*, Lowen, Priscilla, Sain, Kent, Raven

That's right, no Marcus, and instead both Lowen and Kent will get to come along. I have to thank you guys for the Kent/Lowen debate; you reminded me that Steel Sword!Lowen takes no penalty to AS, a fact which will be made great use of to slice and dice the high level enemy pirates on the initial charge. Lowen will probably gain at least a couple levels from this chapter, and if he hits 12 or so, I'll probably bench him and take Kent as my cav during Chapter 19 (neither of the cavs will be deployed on Pirate Ship).

Let me know if you have any comments/questions/objections before I make the run.

[ruadath]

I completed Chapter 17x in 4 turns, but I'm not entirely satisfied with my playthrough. I got good levels and everything, but the one thing that I am a little bit annoyed by is the fact that I brought Priscilla and she didn't end up doing anything besides building support points with Raven. I couldn't take her to heal on the main from because my offense was too blitzkrieg, and there was no safe spot for her behind the front lines (where she could heal, anyway). Raven obviously didn't get scratched by the pirates, so she didn't do anything there either.

Any suggestions? Perhaps taking Rebecca to accompany Raven might be nice (though I'm not sure that it would accomplish much, and it might hurt my EXP gain a little, although the EXP requirement for this chapter was pretty easily satisfied). What do you guys think?

EDIT: A ranged attacker with Raven actually night be a nice idea, since Raven falls just short of being able to ORKO the pirates. FWIW Rebecca also happens to gain support points with Raven, (as does Lucius, who also works, but I would rather conserve his low level).

EDIT 2: Another reason to choose Rebecca here would be the WExp gain. Although she won't get much (probably at most ~5), she is currently at 21/50 WExp, and the boost would likely make it easier for her to hit B bows after Pirate Ship or Dread Isle (where she would double PKs weighed down by heavy weapons and gain 2 or 3 WExp per battle). I'd like her to reach B before Chapter 21, and this would allow me to minimize her usage before that.

Edited July 31, 2015 by ruadath