LHM + HHM Playthrough: S-Rank + Max Tactician Stars

[Paused]

Not to mention Nergral himself! Clearly they have unlocked SS rank tomes; game hacks! ...That or Serra is over exaggerating, heven forbid.

Good luck on the run ruadath. Enjoyed Melths S rank run, (and before that the Lyn HM 59/60 stars TAS on tasvideos) and am excited to see those stratigies expanded upon. Can't really offer anything beyond my blessing with you lots understanding of the game far surpassing mine, but I hope having a cheerleader doesn't hurt.

As for the polls, re; the mine would go unused unless needed. If the game cheats and makes it impossible to clear with ingame targets, like in the Guy chapter, then even things up and mine glitch away. But if using a mine just makes things easier then I'm against. Challenges wouldn't be challenges using cop out strats.

[ruadath]

Good luck on the run ruadath. Enjoyed Melths S rank run, (and before that the Lyn HM 59/60 stars TAS on tasvideos) and am excited to see those stratigies expanded upon. Can't really offer anything beyond my blessing with you lots understanding of the game far surpassing mine, but I hope having a cheerleader doesn't hurt.

Hey, thanks! I always appreciate the moral support!

As for the polls, re; the mine would go unused unless needed. If the game cheats and makes it impossible to clear with ingame targets, like in the Guy chapter, then even things up and mine glitch away. But if using a mine just makes things easier then I'm against. Challenges wouldn't be challenges using cop out strats.

That's how I feel about the last mine as well, though a lot of people want to see the Uber Spear get picked up for some reason. Most likely I won't use it, but we'll see.

Hopefully I'll be able to complete the run this time!

[ruadath]

Chapter 5

Turn 1: Lyn recruits Serra, who heals Erk from the east. Florina rescues Lyn and flies directly east, Sain kills the archer from the west (Iron Lance). Kent burns an RN, then attacks the brigand from the south; the bandit misses the counter, which was the reason for the RN burn. Dorcas moves 2 east, 1 north.

Enemy Turn 1: The brigand attacks Kent, hitting him this time. Kent counters, but the bandit isn't dead yet. The merc attacks Sain and gets doubled, and the other merc doubles Florina.

Turn 2: Serra heals Florina from above, Erk rescues her from the west, and Dorcas take/drops her north onto the mountain. Florina drop Lyn onto the forest north of bug, then moves onto the forest 2 west of Lyn. Kent moves 4 east onto the space above the easternmost forest, and Sain moves as far east as he can. Wil burns 7 RNs.

Enemy Turn 2: The bandit attacks Kent and finally dies this time. Bug misses Lyn, then gets crit-killed. The other bandit attacks Kent, the mercenary attacks Florina, and the archer attacks Lyn, giving her a level.

Turn 3: I burn one RN, then Lyn crit kills the archer above her. Serra heals Kent, and Florina buys 2 Javelins. Sain kills the northern bandit, Kent takes his low use Iron Sword.

Enemy Turn 3: The merc attacks Lyn and dies.

[spoiler=Stats]

Name:     Lv.XP HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
Lyn:      7.23  21  10  12  13  7   5   1
Sain:     7.97  25  14  6   12  7   8   1
Kent:     2.90  20  6   7   8   3   5   2
Florina:  1.61  BASE
Wil:      2.37  BASE
Dorcas:   3.00  BASE
Erk:      1.00  BASE
Serra:    1.33  BASE

I think I'm starting to overdo the "keep everyone except Lyn/Sain EXP starved." I'm not too worried about Kent, since he'll gain a level in the next chapter (hopefully procing Str/Spd) and then become an effective fighter. However, I am worried about Florina; my current strategy doesn't have her gaining any EXP in Chapter 6, which means she'll still be at level 1 in Chapter 7. Depending on what happens there, she may or may not see much use; I definitely don't see her going past level 2 on that chapter, and since Sain solos Chapter 7x, this means she'll still be level 2 during Chapter 8! Oh well, I guess she'll just help with the EXP requirements and/or make it possible for Sain to hog even more EXP.

Edited August 10, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Chapter 6

Turn 1: Lyn recruits Matthew, Matthew opens the door, Rath hits the first trigger. Erk attacks the southern merc from up close, and Wil attacks the other merc from the forest. Kent burns 4 RNs, then finishes the merc for a level.



Exactly the kind of level Kent needed to join the action. Str and Spd growth allow him to start dishing out reasonable damage to enemies, and the Def is a nice bonus.

Serra visits the village for a Door Key, Dorcas heads 2 east and 3 north, Florina moves one NW of Wil, and Sain enters the southern spot of the fortress entrance.



Enemy Turn 1: The mercenary attacks Erk and dies.

Turn 2: Wil kills the soldier. Serra gives Kent the Door Key and then heals him. Kent opens the Door. Matthew opens the chest for the Angelic Robe, Florina rescues him from above, Sain moves east of Florina, takes one of her Javelins, takes and drops Matthew east, and then moves next to the soldier. Lyn moves 2 south and 3 east, Rath rescues her and moves to the northern spot of the entrance, and Dorcas moves below him, takes Lyn and drops her east. Erk burns an RN.



Enemy Turn 2: The two soldiers attack Kent and Sain respectively and get killed. Sain gets a Door Key.



Turn 3: Wil steps on the second switch; Kent heads back west so Serra can heal him. Sain opens the door, and Matthew gets the Armorslayer. Lyn kills Bool, Dorcas attacks the archer, and Florina finishes him. Still no level for her. Rath gets the final trigger to clear the level.

[spoiler=Stats]

Name:     Lv.XP HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
Lyn:      7.86  21  10  12  13  7   5   1
Sain:     8.06  26  15  6   13  8   8   1
Kent:     3.39  21  7   8   9   3   6   2
Florina:  1.91  BASE
Wil:      2.73  BASE
Dorcas:   3.09  BASE
Erk:      1.40  BASE
Serra:    1.55  BASE
Rath:     7.13  BASE

Notice how no one besides Lyn, Sain, and Kent have gained levels.

Edited August 10, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Pre-Chapter 7 Nils Leveling Strategy

Before we get into the meat of Chapter 7 and the rest of LHM, we have an important item to discuss. One of our goals in this playthrough is to get Nils to level 7 to unlock Chapter 19xx in HHM. Besides just for completionist purposes, this provides a net Tactician Star boost; we lose 1 star in LHM and get 3 in HHM (we can't get 5 on 19xx since it is a zero requirements Chapter).

Getting Nils to level 7 is tricky business. Taking the maximum amount of turns allowed for the 5 star on each of the remaining chapters would give us 40 turns, and having Nils dance on each of these turns would give him 400 EXP, taking him to level 5, and leaving him 200 EXP from level 7. By playing smartly in the early portion of this campaign, we've built up a net surplus of 15 turns over the tactics rank; we can dump all of these turns onto one chapter at the cost of 2 stars (or 1 star in the case of 7x, which is what we will do) and get 150 more EXP for Nils. This still leaves him 50 EXP to get to level 7, which means he needs to get attacked by enemies at least 50 times. For every additional 10 times he gets attacked, we can shave a turn off of the playthrough.

There are several "ideal" spots for Nils to get attacked. In chapter 10, with a little bit of effort, things can be set up such that several turns in, Nils is being attacked by 4 enemies every enemy phase and is "safe," in the sense that he is in a forest so he can easily dodge, and has Serra to heal him every turn. Normally, this would be the ideal spot to train Nils and take the extra turns as FionordeQuester does in his guide, but as previously mentioned, we are constrained to taking the extra turns in Chapter 7x. Thankfully, there is an easy chokepoint in Chapter 7x that can be set up on turn 1 which allows 3 enemy units to attack Nils every turn.

Unfortunately, this is not a "safe" spot; Nils gets no avoid bonuses and is thus facing 3 attacks with roughly ~50% hit chance every turn. Furthermore, funds constraints are tight for the chapter, which means that Serra can only afford to heal him 4 or 5 times (assuming all the Vulneraries and the Door Key are stolen, in addition to the Hammer and the Lockpick), and Vulneraries are obviously forbidden too. As you can imagine, this makes leaving Nils on that spot for ~20 times quite unreliable as a strategy and takes a considerable amount of RNG abuse to get through.

One possible solution to this problem is to have Sain kill the archer early on. IIRC, the archer has the highest hit% out of the three enemies (an archer, a brigand, and a Thunder mage) and taking him out early would greatly increase the reliability of the strategy. However, it would also potentially result in me being forced to take 1 or 2 extra turns in the overall playthrough than I would have to otherwise. You have already seen that I don't mind doing so in order to avoid extensive RN manipulation; I could have shaved a turn off of both the Prologue and Chapter 1 if I were willing to RNG abuse extensively (as in the manner I did in Chapter 2, where it was absolutely necessary for achieving the 5-star ranking).

Thus we have a question to answer: would you prefer to see me get the lowest turns possible from this point? Or would you rather I take an extra turn or 2 but use reliable strategies to minimize RNG abuse? I'm leaning toward the latter choice.

**************************************************

Regardless of your opinion regarding the last point, its time to discuss some basic strategy for Chapter 7. The number of allowed turns for the chapter is 6, however it is very possible to get the Pure Water and clear the chapter in 3 turns. I am considering doing this, as I believe that if there is any chapter from this point onward which we shave turns off, it should be this one for the following reasons:

- Any of the turns saved can be utilized as extra turns in 7x

- It is quite easy to grab the required 350 EXP in 3 turns, something which is not the case with the later chapters

- Clearing the chapter quickly allows us to not kill a large number of the enemy units. Unlike with later chapters, where most of the enemy has to be killed in order to meet the EXP rank (or we want to in order for Sain to gain levels), this allows us to save a good chunk of EXP

The only negative I can think of is the following:

- Compared to chapters 8 and 9 (which are both harder to shave turns off of), this chapter has a much easier method of reliably setting Nils up in a location where he can get attacked by an enemy every turn (namely the enemy shaman near the starting point). In chapter 8, the ballista can serve this purpose, as the bandits arriving from the SW mountains can in Chapter 9, but it is a bit more difficult to get right.

If you guys have an opinion on either of the above points, feel free to share it.

[ruadath]

Chapter 7

Preparations and Formation: Make sure Kent and Matthew have a spare inventory slot, and that Florina and Sain both have Javelins.

Kent is the east of the two cavaliers.

Turn 1: Matthew doubles the archer from the south, Wil doubles the shaman from the northeast, and Kent finishes the archer from the west with his lance. Serra heals Wil from the west, Lyn rescues Serra from above. Lucius takes Serra from the west and drops her north. Sain equips his Javelin, then rescues Wil from the north. Dorcas moves above Sain, takes Wil and drops him east. Florina equips her Javelin, rescues Sain and moves onto the fort. Nils plays for her.

Florina moves 3 east and 3 south, drops Sain east onto the patch of land west of the mountain, and then Cantos 1 south.

Enemy Turn 1: A merc attacks Sain for 0 damage, and Sain misses the counter with his Javelin. The shaman hits Nils, and another Shaman attacks Florina.

Florina finally gets a level, and its a pretty good one at that. A mage attacks Sain and gets OHKOd by his Javelin.

Turn 2: Wil attacks the bandit from the west, Sain kills the merc with his Iron Lance and Matthew finishes the bandit from the south. Kent moves west of Matthew, Dorcas buys a Heal staff, Serra heals Nils. Florina moves one north, trade-equips Sain with his Javelin, rescues him and flies 5 west and 1 north. Nils moves 1 SW and plays for Florina.

Florina moves as far south as she can go (SW of the westmost shaman) and drops Sain east.

Enemy Turn 2: A mercenary misses Kent and gets countered. The shaman attacks Nils. The injured shaman that attacked Florina last turn attacks Sain and gets killed by his Javelin. The other shaman attacks Florina but misses and gets countered.

Turn 3: Kent visits the village for a Pure Water. Matthew attacks the merc from the east, and Wil finishes him off for a level.

Serra heals Nils and Nils plays for her. Dorcas finally gets to kill the annoying shaman. Florina throws a Javelin at the boss, and Sain finishes him off with his Iron Lance.

Edited August 10, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Looks like I forgot again, so here are the stats:

Name:     Lv.XP HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
Lyn:      7.86  21  10  12  13  7   5   1
Sain:     8.91  26  15  6   13  8   8   1
Kent:     3.71  21  7   8   9   3   6   2
Florina:  2.22  17  6   8   10  8   4   5
Wil:      3.20  21  7   5   6   7   5   0
Dorcas:   3.32  BASE
Erk:      1.40  BASE
Serra:    1.88  BASE
Rath:     7.13  BASE
Matthew:  2.67  BASE
Nils:     1.32  BASE
Lucius:   3.00  BASE

[ruadath]

I'm actually planning to rerun Chapter 7, since I realized that by taking the full 6 turns, I can let Sain absorb most of the combat EXP. Furthermore, leaving the archer alive allows both him and the shaman to target Nils every turn for increased EXP gain.

[Brinzy]

The Nils situation looks very sticky... but I agree that going for the less RNG abuse option is more attractive, if only to "prove" that it can be done without said abuse.

[ruadath]

The Nils situation looks very sticky... but I agree that going for the less RNG abuse option is more attractive, if only to "prove" that it can be done without said abuse.

It's certainly feasible (this time around) to complete our overall objective of max starring LHM and getting Nils to level 7 without RNG abuse on Chapter 7x. With the new strategy for Chapter 7, Nils gains 10 out of the 50 EXP from enemy attacks he needs there. Then in 7x, we can even afford to let only one enemy (the bandit) attack Nils, and he'll get roughly 22 EXP from there. This leaves him only 18 more times to be attacked throughout LHM, which is very easy to obtain from the ballistae in chapter 8, the bandits in the SW mountains of chapter 9, and the enemies near the starting position in Chapter 10.

The question now is to find the right balance of reliability vs. turn count; in other words, how many turns can I shave off before the strategy becomes too dependent on RN abuse?

[ruadath]

Unfortunately, I don't have time to give a complete post right now, but Chapter 7 has just been completed (again). I found a (6 turn) strat that allowed me to give 9 of the 11 kills to Sain, one of them to Lyn, and one more to a level 1 unit (either Erk or Florina). I would have liked to give it to Florina so she could get to level 2, but unfortunately the RNG was just completely barren of low numbers at that point (for a stretch of 30 or so RNs, so I couldn't even burn a few), so I decided to give it to Erk, as he didn't level. Besides those 3, Matthew gained a little bit of EXP from chipping, and obviously Serra and Nils gained a lot of EXP.

[spoiler=Stats]

Name:     Lv.XP HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
Lyn:      7.96  21  10  12  13  7   5   1
Sain:     9.70  27  16  6   14  8   9   1
Kent:     3.39  21  7   8   9   3   6   2
Florina:  2.01  18  6   8   10  7   5   4
Wil:      2.73  BASE
Dorcas:   3.32  BASE
Erk:      1.40  BASE
Serra:    2.32  18  3   5   8   6   2   5
Rath:     7.13  BASE
Matthew:  2.00  BASE
Nils:     1.70  BASE
Lucius:   3.00  BASE

Expect a full playthrough to be posted sometime later tonight. In the meantime, feel free to provide comments on the stats.

EDIT: Actually I've got a new playthrough that gets Florina her level. I changed a couple of things (you'll see when I post the playthrough), and the statistics above have been corrected to reflect that.

Edited August 12, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Chapter 7 (again)

I just went with the starting formation since it doesn't really matter, though I subbed out Wil for Matthew. Also, Kent, Dorcas and Sain have free spots in the inventories.

Turn 1: Sain equips his Javelin and moves next to Florina. Florina also equips her Javelin, rescues Sain, and moves onto the fort. Nils heads east and plays for Florina, and Florina then flies southeast and drops Sain onto the fort near the bridge from the spot above.

Enemy Turn 1: Sain OHKOs a mercenary on the counter (with a Javelin!), injures a brigand by hitting one of two Javelin counters. The archer and shaman up north both attack Nils and hit. Two shamans attack Sain; one is in a forest and dodges one of the counters, but the other isn't as lucky and gets killed. A mage attacks Sain and meets a similar fate. Sain is reduced to 10 HP, but regains 5 at the start of the next turn (since he is on a fort).

Turn 2: Serra heals Nils, who plays for her and she runs back west for safety. Kent moves one space north. Florina Javelins the shaman near Nils from two spaces below for a nice level. Sain takes out the shaman near him from the west with his lance.

Enemy Turn 2: A bandit attacks Sain, misses and gets killed. The archer and shaman both attacks Nils, but only the latter hits.

Turn 3: Florina flies south of Serra. Serra heals Nils, Nils plays for her, then Serra heads west again and heals Florina. Matthew moves 1 SW (I actually didn't need him for this chapter, and probably should have just brought Rath instead to not have to deal with the archer wanting to attack Matthew). An RN is burned, then Sain moves onto the forest east of him, Iron Lance equipped. Kent charges east.

Enemy Turn 3: Two bandits attack Sain; both miss, and both dodge one of Sain's attacks. The enemy and archer attack Nils again; I'm going to stop mentioning this since it happens every turn.

Turn 4: Sain kills a bandit, Nils and Serra do their thing. Kent continues east toward the village.

Enemy Turn 4: The merc attacks Sain and dies, the bandit moves onto the fort.

Turn 5: Kent visits the village. Nils and Serra do their things again.

A poor level, but it sets up this nice one for Sain after he kills the bandit on the fort (Iron Sword, or he'll miss).

One RN is burned.

Enemy Turn 5: The normal thing happens.

Turn 6: Erk buys a Heal staff, Serra heals Nils, Nils plays for her. Lyn crit-kills the archer, Dorcas bludgeons the shaman. Serra heals Dorcas. Sain attacks the boss (lance).

Enemy Turn 6: Heintz attacks Sain and dies.

[ruadath]

I'm pretty happy with that last 6-turn clear of Chapter 7, but I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with 7x, so I might not run it for a while. If anyone has suggestions, feel free to let me know.

UPDATE: I've now developed a good strategy for 7x, but the chapter will take me roughly 20 turns, so I probably won't have it finished and posted until sometime tomorrow.

Edited August 12, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Chapter 7x

I'm not sure how much detail I'm going to write this up in, considering that its both really long and reasonably boring, but here goes.



The starting formation. Sain is the closer cav to the action, and I guess I should also note I didn't skip any of the cutscenes for a better RNG seed.

Turn 1: Sain kills the west soldier, and with some rescue-dropping (and Nils playing for Kent), everyone ends up like this


Enemy Turn 1: The bandit, archer, and mage all attack Nils but all miss. This is going to happen every turn, so I won't mention it again except to say who hits each time.

Turn 2: Sain breaks the wall, Matthew moves 3 south of the archer, Nils plays for him, and Matthew steals the Vulnerary. Kent rescues Matthew and heads back, Dorcas approaches Sain, and Rath and Florina get Nils back to his special spot. Serra moves closer to Nils.



Enemy Turn 2: Everything misses Nils.

Turn 3: Sain moves onto the chest, Kent drops Matthew south then moves a space up (so the archer can't target him). I burn an RN, then Nils plays to get a nice level. I then burn another RN.



Enemy Turn 3: A soldier rushes Sain and gets OHKO'd, the bandit hits Nils.

Turn 4: Matthew steals the lockpick, Kent rescues him and moves back to where he was, Dorcas drops him to safety. I burn 5 RNs, then Sain kills the thief.



After neglecting it almost entirely for his first 6 or so levels, I think Sain has now got Skill and Luck in 3 out of the last 4 levels. I'm not complaining.

Nils plays. I'm also going to stop mentioning this unless he does something important (like moving Serra to safety after she heals him) instead of just having Rath wait and then Nils play for him.

Enemy Turn 4: Everything misses.

Turn 5: Matthew grabs the Hammer, Sain kills the mage, Kent rescues Matthew and moves up, and Dorcas follows behind him. Serra heals Nils and he plays for her.



Enemy Turn 5: The bandit hits Nils, the shaman misses Sain.

Turn 6: Sain kills the shaman, Kent moves west of Sain and drops Matthew, Dorcas moves up.

Enemy Turn 6: The archer hits Nils.

Turn 7: Sain kills Beyard, Kent and Dorcas team up to rescue drop Sain closer to the next group of enemies and Matthew follows behind. I'll provide an image:



Enemy Turn 7: The nearby merc attacks Sain and dies, the archer hits Nils again (reducing him to 2 HP).

Turn 8: Serra heals up Nils, Sain moves 2 east, Matthew de-equips him from behind, and Kent and Dorcas trail him.


A quick note on the de-equip: the reason is that we want to have Matthew steal the Vulnerary from the merc, but Sain can OHKO him. In my original run of this chapter (during the first iteration of this playthrough), I simply had Matthew aggro the merc and then stole and had Sain kill him on the next phase. However, I have since realized that this is pretty wasteful, as Matthew striking twice with his sword costs 20G, and on a chapter where funds are already tight, there is no reason to blow that kind of money. In particular, that is a whole Heal use for Serra! Thankfully Nils ended up dodging most things on this run, but things could
have ended up a lot tighter had he not.

Enemy Turn 8: The merc attacks Sain for 0 damage, and the archer hits Nils.

Turn 9: Matthew steals the Vulnerary from the merc from the north, Kent gets Sain his lance back, and then Sain kills the merc from the west.

Enemy Turn 9: The mage hits Nils

Turn 10: Sain moves onto the pillar and uneqips; everyone else crowds around him from the north and west.

Enemy Turn 10: The cav attacks unequipped Sain. Nils gets hit my the archer.


And that's pretty much a perfect level for Nils, since he has 0% Skl growth, and 5% Str growth (neither stat ever comes in handy for him).

Turn 11: Matthew steals the vulnerary from the cav, Kent re-equips Sain, and Sain kills the cav from the east and gets another level identical to last time



Again, Skill/Luck growths. I'm still not complaining. Serra heals Nils, Dorcas rescues Matthew out of danger.

Enemy Turn 11: The archer hits Nils. A bandit attacks Sain and gets one-shotted.



Turn 12: Sain moves 2 south, Matthew moves 2 north of Sain, Kent makes sure Matthew has inventory space. Rath moves 1 south of the chest.

Enemy Turn 12: One of the soldiers suicides on Sain, another makes preparations to do so next turn. The bandit and archer both hit Nils.



Turn 13: Rath moves 3 north of the archer. Serra heals Nils.

Note: Rath's position is for later when we move Matthew to the spot 2 east of Rath. The archer would prefer to attack Matthew over Nils (lower Def, lower Avoid), but with Rath standing in the way of Matthew, he has no choice but to go for Nils.

Enemy Turn 13: The remaining soldier suicides on Sain. Now only the 3 enemies attacking Nils are left. The archer hits Nils.

Turn 14: Sain moves directly north of the bandit but does not attack him. Matthew moves one above Sain.

Enemy Turn 14: They all miss.



By the way, with the last set of EXP gained, Nils has now surpassed Kent to become our 4th highest leveled unit (after Sain, Lyn, and Rath). Think about how underleveled that means the rest of the team is. Nils is only at 3.52 and Kent is at 3.39

Turns 15: Sain kills the bandit, Matthew steals the Door Key from the east of the mage, Nils plays for Sain, and Sain kills the mage. Florina and Serra team up to rescue-drop Nils to the space 1S2E of the archer.



Enemy Turn 15: The archer misses Nils.

Turn 16: Serra heals Nils frivolously; even though we don't need the EXP, have room in funds for one more staff heal, so I might as well get her some staff EXP. Nils helps Sain move to kill the archer, completing the chapter.

[spoiler=Stats]

Name:     Lv.XP HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
Lyn:      7.97  21  10  12  13  8   5   1
Sain:    11.47  29  18  8   16  10  9   1
Kent:     3.39  21  7   8   9   3   6   2
Florina:  2.01  18  6   8   10  7   5   4
Wil:      2.73  BASE
Dorcas:   3.32  BASE
Erk:      1.40  BASE
Serra:    2.87  18  3   5   8   6   2   5
Rath:     7.13  BASE
Matthew:  2.50  BASE
Nils:     3.73  16  0   0   14  12  7   5
Lucius:   3.00  BASE

Edited August 14, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

In case it isn't clear, the chapter is pretty much finished at this point (really since the end of turn 14), as it only takes 2 more turns to have Sain kill everything and Matthew steal the Door Key; it's just that I need to decide how many turns I want to spend here vs. other chapters.

[ruadath]

So after some contemplation, I've decided to settle on the 16 turn clear of Chapter 7x. This keeps me at a surplus of 6 turns over tactics, and if I take the par turns on the rest of the chapters, Nils gains 270 more EXP from dancing, which leaves him 57 short of his target. I think its fairly reasonable to have Nils get hit that many times with some proper planning. Saving the turns here is optimal, as it allows me to feed more EXP in Chapters 8 and 9, and lower the EXP absorbed by the rest of the team in Chapter 10.

[ruadath]

Weird! I was very confused about why Lyn randomly seemed to have gained 1 EXP in the last chapter, as she didn't participate in any combat, but I forgot that for some reason the game counts the ballista's attack on Lyn in the intro cutscenes as a battle that happened (just like Rath gains 13 EXP from the crit kill of the mercenary he makes in his chapter, though his Short Bow remains unused).

On the other hand, this doesn't happen for Erk during his cutscene, probably because he is an NPC at the time.

UPDATE: Even weirder! I did some testing, and noticed that if Lyn finishes 7x on 99 EXP, she will level up during the intro scenes, though the game doesn't tell you about it! She even gains stats and extra RNs are burned! That's really weird!

Edited August 14, 2015 by ruadath

[FionordeQuester]

Wow, seriously? Yikes.

There is one thing I'm curious about though. What do people think of Ruadath's guide here compared to mine? I mean, obviously mine's got some unforseen kinks that need to be worked out (which I'm doing now)...but what do you all think about the fact that Ruadath aims for all the Tactician stars while burning lots of RNS, as opposed to mine, which focuses solely on S-Ranks, and seeing how to get away with giving Florina both the Energy Ring and the Angelic Robe?

Does mine still seem helpful, or is it kind of redundant now? Just out of curiosity.

Edited August 14, 2015 by FionordeQuester

[ruadath]

There is one thing I'm curious about though. What do people think of Ruadath's guide here compared to mine? I mean, obviously mine's got some unforseen kinks that need to be worked out (which I'm doing now)...but what do you all think about the fact that Ruadath aims for all the Tactician stars while burning lots of RNS, as opposed to mine, which focuses solely on S-Ranks, and seeing how to get away with giving Florina both the Energy Ring and the Angelic Robe?

I'll at least offer my opinion on this. I certainly don't think that your guide is redundant, for several reasons. First of all, my other thread is for Max Starring Lyn Normal Mode, which is obviously different from doing the same thing on LHM, and doesn't aim to get Nils to level 7. On the other hand this "guide," is written much less like a guide, and while I have limited RN burns in most places (I think since Chapter 2 I haven't had more than 7 or 8 RNs burned in a chapter, and it's usually less than 5) burning the ~300 or so RNs in Chapter 2 is definitely really annoying and not something I presume that most people are interested in pursuing (especially on a console).

Also, the goals of our two guides in terms of levels and item usage is very different. Your guide aims to turn Kent, Sain, and Florina into killing machines that can power through HHM; my playthrough instead focuses on letting Sain hog all of the EXP and keeping the rest of the team EXP starved. Similarly, your guide uses both the Angelic Robe and the Energy Ring, whereas I only have room to afford one item, and I'll be using the Knight Crest to promote Sain.

Does mine still seem helpful, or is it kind of redundant now? Just out of curiosity.

I think these differences are sufficient enough that both guides serve a useful purpose.

[ruadath]

Chapter 8

Here is the formation. Sain is the southern cavalier. Nothing much to say in terms of preparation except that Dorcas should have a free spot to get the Lancereaver.

Turn 1: Dorcas heads west of the forest, equipping the Hand Axe. Nils play for him from the south, and Dorcas moves 2 west of the village entrance. Serra moves south of the other forest. Sain, Kent and Florina advance south as depicted in the image (Florina equips Iron Lance).

Enemy Turn 1: The enemy merc attacks Florina from the south. The ballistae, mage, and shaman attack Nils, but only the mage hits.

Turn 2: Dorcas visits the village, Serra heals Nils from above, Nils plays for her, and Serra heads back west. Rath moves 1 SE. Kent attacks the cav from the forest north of him, Florina kills the merc from the forest to the west, and Sain finishes the cav Kent attacked from the west (all with Iron Lance).

Enemy Turn 2: Two soldiers attack Kent, get doubled and die. This is followed by the other cav attacking Kent.

Not an amazing level, but since Kent has already proc'd all of his auxiliary stats at least once and is missing a point of Str, I'm very happy to take this. The three units attack Nils, but again only the mage hits. The archer attacks Kent.

Turn 3: Florina kills the cav from the east, and Kent doubles the archer from the south. Sain moves 1 SE of Kent. Dorcas heads back west and Serra heals Nils from above.

A great level for Serra. Nils plays for her from the west and she retreats back west.

Halfway there for Nils.

Enemy Turn 3: Everything attacks and misses Nils.

Turn 4: Sain kills the enemy bandit from the north (still Iron Lance, as he can OHKO). He hits B in Lances.

Florina moves straight west (out of the ballistae's range) and Kent moves north of the forest. Serra moves 2 east, Nils plays for her from the east (we want to draw the enemy mage off the forest). Dorcas moves 1 NE of Nils, Serra heals Nils his HP growth from the level. Rath rescues Serra and moves north of the armory, Lyn takes her from the west and drop her south, and Erk moves 1 NE of Rath (this last step ended up being unimportant).

Enemy Turn 4: Two soldiers attack Sain and get one shotted. The axereaver soldier attacks Sain and also gets one shotted. The Lancereaver merc then attacks Sain; Sain misses his first attack but kills him on the second. Everything attacks Nils but misses.

Turn 5: Sain attacks Yogi from the west, but he misses the second attack. This is good since he gains extra EXP (and gets a level up when the RNG is better).

Dorcas attacks the mage from the west (Iron Axe). Nils plays for him and he moves onto the forest, equipping the Hand Axe. Serra heals Dorcas, then Rath and Lyn bring her back to her original spot.

Enemy Turn 5: Yogi attacks Sain and dies.

Sain continues to grow exceptionally well. One of the soldiers and the swordreaver bandit also attack Sain and die. Everything misses Nils.

Turn 6: Sain kills the last soldier in the south. Florina flies up north so Serra can heal her from where she is (which she does). Dorcas waits and Nils plays for him. The ballistae is out of ammo, so Kent kills the archer.

Enemy Turn 6: Only the mage and shaman remain; they both attack Nils and miss.

Turn 7: Dorcas doubles (kills) the shaman. Serra heals Dorcas, Nils plays for Dorcas, and Dorcas kills the mage to finish the chapter. Yay RNG burn free!

[spoiler=Stats]

Name:     Lv.XP HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
Lyn:      7.97  21  10  12  13  8   5   1
Sain:    12.70  30  19  8   17  11  10  1
Kent:     4.51  22  8   8   10  3   6   2
Florina:  2.65  18  6   8   10  7   5   4
Wil:      2.73  BASE
Dorcas:   3.87  BASE
Erk:      1.40  BASE
Serra:    3.53  18  3   6   9   7   3   5
Rath:     7.13  BASE
Matthew:  2.50  BASE
Nils:     4.60  17  0   0   15  13  7   6
Lucius:   3.00  BASE

Edited August 14, 2015 by ruadath

[Paused]

Does mine still seem helpful, or is it kind of redundant now? Just out of curiosity.

I still find your run interesting, and no doubt your guide is still helpful. Everyone is going to be looking for different goals in runs. If I wanted to boot up a new game on my FE7 cart now, I'd go find your guide and set up a Lyn file first for all my future runs. Skipping Tutorial RNG is fantastic. I personaly would only ever aim for S rank in any mode at most, so your guide to get me set up for the main game is perfect.

That's not why I check this thread though. I have zero interest in doing this run myself, but seeing what the max stars you can get is, and how you do it is fun to see. .

[ruadath]

I don't know if you guys remember this from last time, but Chapter 9 is one of the more annoying ones; it has a high EXP requirement of 650 (the highest of Lyn Mode), and assuming we want to use the Knight Crest on Sain, only 286G worth of uses to get there.

I was able to (barely) accomplish this last time and get Sain ~170 EXP to go from 11.3x to 13.00. This time, I've already got Sain at 12.70 so it would be really easy to get him to level 14; I would love to try and get him to 15, but getting 230 EXP seems pretty difficult (if not impossible) since after hitting level 13 Sain only gets 6 EXP per kill from level 1 enemies.

I'll probably come up with something soon enough, but if you guys have any suggestions (or comments on whether you think lv 15 is possible), let me know! (note that it is easy enough to get Sain ~150 EXP from battling and killing Eagler).

[FionordeQuester]

Hmm...personally, I wouldn't stress too much about getting him to Level 15, even if it is possible. With the kind of level ups you're rigging for, he'd hit his low Paladin caps really quickly anyway, at which point, the extra levels aren't going to be doing him THAT much good.

Edited August 15, 2015 by FionordeQuester

[feplus]

Shame about having to start over. This is a great challenge run idea.

I've just finished up a no-arena ranked EHM playthrough. This prevents one-dimensional, LTC-type strategies. Lots of fun and significantly more involved than vanilla ranked, but I couldn't help but feel ranked play can be pushed further. Max star runs strike me as the final step. I think I'll join you and give this challenge a shot, but some questions first:

1. Which chapters are impossible to S-rank? I'm aware of 7x and all Hector-exclusive maps, but are there others?

2. Where is the second star in Lyn Mode lost?

3. How exactly are funds calculated on a per-map basis? Example: I start a chapter with 50K assets. The five-star requirements for this map are 5K. I collect 5K in new assets but invest 1K assets in weapon use. Will I still be rewarded with max stars?

4. Related to the above, do per-map funds requirements follow the totals formula? So you just need 80% of funds on a given chapter to five-star?

5. Do you have max star totals for HHM and the other campaigns? If not, I'll probably calculate them myself.

I like this challenge run for many reasons. For one, it's not arbitrary. No-arena runs are arbitrary, but tactician stars are recorded by the game. For two, it naturally restricts cheese strategies like LTC. For three, it requires visiting all gaiden maps. For four, it makes combat a relevant rank, which is a miracle as far as I'm concerned.

Having said that, I feel a "mixed" LHM/HHM run is arbitrary. The game does not keep track of cumulative totals. So I'll leave that goal to you and focus on individual campaigns, probably starting with HNM. I'm also a bit skeptical that RN abuse is necessary, and if it is necessary I'd wager that's the case in only a handful of places.

Edited August 15, 2015 by feplus

[Paused]

The second star lost in Lyns mode is due to having to sacrifice a tactics star somewhere to grind up Nils to level 7 to unlock 19xx. So if you are focusing on individual campaigns nothing is stopping you getting 59/60.

In your funds rank example you would fail to max star. The money you spend is needed to be made up for. If 5stars needs 5K, and you spend 1K on weapon/item/Farina hireing, you'd need need to collect 6k in new assets to 5 star.

I imagine saying with certanty the max star totals for HHM is a touch difficult as earlier in the thread he achived the funds reqirement on a level it was thought impossible to do so. Who knows if it'll hapen again?

I'd be interested in following your run focusing on individual campaigns if you post it.