Units that stand out only in one route?

[Espinosa]

I figured a list or discussion of this sort could be helpful to help people decide who's more fit for usage on any given path.

Kaze (Nohr) - doesn't face any significant competition from physical shuriken users (who actually have some firepower unlike him), and you needn't pair him up with MU till A-rank support to keep him alive.

Selana (Nohr) - flier with a staff is a niche on this path since peg!MU is an inferior MU build in Nohr with no storebought shocksticks around.

Elise (Nohr) - in Revelation, she starts later and rather far from a promotion so Sakura could well be a Falcoknight wielding a staff by the time she would be able to promote. No such issues here; a mounted healer to heal, rescue allies and cripple enemies.

Elfie (Nohr) - has very real utility early on and can continue contributing after promoting into a mobile GK, fixing her main crippling problem, in great contrast to horrid bases and jointime in Revelation.

Niles (Nohr) - I don't really buy having to get him so many levels just to reach that Pass skill all the way as a L15 Adventurer, but good luck finding a reason to use him in Revelation where Takumi has more damage output 7 chapters earlier.

Crimson (Hoshido) - actually sticks around.

Hinoka (Hoshido) - superior availability on this path and combat is quite rad compared to your early flier (who's also pretty hard to compare with the usual FE Thany/Florina prototype).

Subaki (Hoshido) - Beruka takes care of the 'bulky flier' role better in Revelation, and competing against two prepromoted fliers leaves Subaki with little chance to be considered for a good army.

Gunter (Revelation) - far superior availability makes him a longer-lasting Jeigan and MU's offensive support partner.

Tsukuyomi (Revelation) - joins early with a much more usable base level.

Kagerou (Revelation) - meaty strength advantage over the other ninja without the Hoshido availability problem.

[Shephen]

Subaki (Hoshido) - Beruka takes care of the 'bulky flier' role better in Revelation, and competing against two prepromoted fliers leaves Subaki with little chance to be considered for a good army.

Baki and Beruka have near identical growths. Beruka does have higher base def and base str but will never double like Baki has Swallow Strike. But Baki also has the training sessions of 1x and 10 for gaining exp and weapon ranks and will be able to Rally Speeda little bit after promotion and can use staves such as the Rescue Staff and heal so he has the utility roll. Beruka is just a pretty bad combat unit that flies and doesn't really as much training opportunities as him so she will always be behind.

Edit: And Kaze is really good in all the routes. In Hoshido he gets set from his power carry in chapter 5 and in IK he has the availability to get patched up and ahead. Won't be as good as Kagerou but he will still be good.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Shephen

[Ownagepuffs]

Kaze is pretty gr8 in Hoshido especially since he has perfect Availability starting from C4 and he puts Rinka support to better use than basically everyone except maybe Tsubaki, especially since he carries a support rank into Hoshido due to C5. He's good in both.

Gunther is a lot better in Nohr than in IK IMO. Much better bases and instant seal capable. Gunther in IK Lunatic starts getting 2RKOd in like Chapter 9, and Kamui is still better off sticking with the servant.

Agreed on everything else. Especially Kagerou who really flips the tables on the other ninjas in IK.

Would like to add Jakob (Nohr). Applications of a potential C7 Paladin is higher in Nohr especially since he has access to Arthur support and unlike in Hoshido you get an extra seal in N9 so there's less opportunity cost (keeping Kamui as a prince for Jakob's sake is bleh). Still probably not worth it because he inevitably falls off mid game and the seal does have other uses but it's something worth looking into. Would also like to add Takumi (IK). Takumi's really strong in Hosh but it's sorta overkill there whereas all of a sudden he puts in a ton of work in IK as one of your best offensive units from the moment he joins until the end of the game.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[FrostyFireMage]

How about the children characters? Which are the most and least useful in each route?

[avengerfive]

Midoriko might be OK for Nohr, for the $$$.

Also, Mozu is good in Nohr because she is a bow user! /s

Edited December 26, 2015 by R O Y B O Y S

[Espinosa]

I didn't consider 1x at all to be frank; sounds like a pointless map to do unless you're playing for full recruitment.

Children seem pretty pointless on all routes tbqh. Even if the parents are units with actually good stats (e.g. royals), the child loses access to whatever Prf weapon the parents might have used.

I like the Revelation Takumi idea a lot - the meaty chip is much-needed there. Don't really get the Hoshido Kaze enthusiasm though. How is he doing anything with Rinkah when he will *spoilers* literally die after Flannel's map if A rank with MU hasn't been reached? This severely limits what both he and MU should be doing in the chapters.

[Shephen]

How about the children characters? Which are the most and least useful in each route?

For Hoshido it would be something like (Assuming Jakob is first otherwise Deere is last)

Matoi > Sophie > Shigure > Deere > Grey > Shinonome > Kinu > Hisame > Kanna > Midoriko > Mitame > Kisagre > Shara

For Nohr it would be something like (Assuming Jakob is first otherwise Deere is last)

Lutz > Velour > Shigure > Foleo > Deere > Sophie > Eponine > Siegbert > Midoriko > Ophelia > Kanna > Soliel (I feel like I'm missing someone here...)

For IK it would be something like

Father that isn't bad > Bad Father

I didn't consider 1x at all to be frank; sounds like a pointless map to do unless you're playing for full recruitment.

Children seem pretty pointless on all routes tbqh. Even if the parents are units with actually good stats (e.g. royals), the child loses access to whatever Prf weapon the parents might have used.

I like the Revelation Takumi idea a lot - the meaty chip is much-needed there. Don't really get the Hoshido Kaze enthusiasm though. How is he doing anything with Rinkah when he will *spoilers* literally die after Flannel's map if A rank with MU hasn't been reached? This severely limits what both he and MU should be doing in the chapters.

You do 1x for the exp. It is good exp and weapon rank training for everyone. Also Mozu's vulnerary is nice.

They only need to spend a little bit of time next each other 4 chapters since they can get the C support from 5 and 6. It is incredibly easy for them to get it in the time frame, and still maximizing both unit's usefulness.

[Ownagepuffs]

How about the children characters? Which are the most and least useful in each route?

Unlike Awakening, the children are not so good here.

Good children tend to come from good parents.

I didn't consider 1x at all to be frank; sounds like a pointless map to do unless you're playing for full recruitment.

Children seem pretty pointless on all routes tbqh. Even if the parents are units with actually good stats (e.g. royals), the child loses access to whatever Prf weapon the parents might have used.

I like the Revelation Takumi idea a lot - the meaty chip is much-needed there. Don't really get the Hoshido Kaze enthusiasm though. How is he doing anything with Rinkah when he will *spoilers* literally die after Flannel's map if A rank with MU hasn't been reached? This severely limits what both he and MU should be doing in the chapters.

1x is basically Free Exp: The Map. It's good for catch up, support rank building, weapon rank building, whatever. Edit: the free Dragon Point is also good for building anything you didn't build with the C6 and C7 points.

Keeping Kaze alive is more practical than you might think. Kaze can fight with Kamui pair up in C4. You want him to gain a speed proc there so he can double unpaired Mercs in C5 anyway. That's a C support right there going into Hoshido (they don't have access to it until lost route split though). Rinka supports Kaze while he carries the team in C5, also a C support going into Hoshido. You can use 1x to get B support with Kaze since enemies there are still in suck mode. From there you only need to dedicate 2 maps of fighting for them to hit A, considering you have B support by C9, it's not too hard. In the maps that Kaze isn't fighting with Kamui he's fighting with Rinka so it works out.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[Espinosa]

The +spd level-up for Kaze is for LTC purposes alone, isn't it? Based on my limited experience, he also needs to proc strength (not his most reliable growth) a ludicrous number of times in a row to 2HKO the Dark Mages with the Rinkah pairup to grant you that 5(?) turn clear. Doesn't help that chapter 4 is a hellhole for LTCing (I believe you need a rigged MU + a Yato crit on the boss to Dragon Vein the mountain to Sakura ASAP), and you have to re-start it each time you find the Kaze you got has bad early levelups. Lunatic LTC isn't for most mortals.

It seems more reliable to just have dragon MU OHKO all the mercs, included paired-up ones, with an Azura dance to take care of all of them on time, while Kaze debuffs people and tanks Dark Mage attacks.

I do agree that him getting level-ups early is helpful to take more Dark Mage hits in C5; each point of res or HP matters. After C5, he's still a dood who doubles and debuffs with shurikens - I like debuffs whenever I decide to sandbag.

[Ownagepuffs]

The speed proc isn't just for ltc. It really makes the map easier since he goes from 3RKOing the mercs to 2RKOing them. For LTC purposes you are right though. I ended up with a blessed Kaze that could ORKO the dark Mages once and it was amazing but so unlikely lol.

[Ebony]

For Hoshido it would be something like (Assuming Jakob is first otherwise Deere is last)

Matoi > Sophie > Shigure > Deere > Grey > Shinonome > Kinu > Hisame > Kanna > Midoriko > Mitame > Kisagre > Shara

For Nohr it would be something like (Assuming Jakob is first otherwise Deere is last)

Lutz > Velour > Shigure > Foleo > Deere > Sophie > Eponine > Siegbert > Midoriko > Ophelia > Kanna > Soliel (I feel like I'm missing someone here...)

For IK it would be something like

Father that isn't bad > Bad Father

You do 1x for the exp. It is good exp and weapon rank training for everyone. Also Mozu's vulnerary is nice.

They only need to spend a little bit of time next each other 4 chapters since they can get the C support from 5 and 6. It is incredibly easy for them to get it in the time frame, and still maximizing both unit's usefulness.

Shep, missing Ignis.

Also Soleil? Bad? Really? How?

[Shephen]

Kaze needs 1 point of speed to double the mercenaries in chapter 5. He also needs either 1 point of hp, res, or def so he can survive the wyrmslayer merc and mage that start on the right. It is a really nice thing.

Shep, missing Ignis.

Also Soleil? Bad? Really? How?

Lol Ignis

Soleil comes from and is similar to Lazward who is already really meh bordering bad. She just isn't doing anything really noteable.

[Ebony]

Kaze needs 1 point of speed to double the mercenaries in chapter 5. He also needs either 1 point of hp, res, or def so he can survive the wyrmslayer merc and mage that start on the right. It is a really nice thing.

Lol Ignis

Soleil comes from and is similar to Lazward who is already really meh bordering bad. She just isn't doing anything really noteable.

This is mildly important to me cause I wanted to marry Lazward.

It's okay, everyone forgets about Ignis...

[Espinosa]

How's Benoit in Revelation btw? He looks like a decent attack stance partner, but Silas has much more workable stats with essentially the same availability.

[Gwimpage]

The +spd level-up for Kaze is for LTC purposes alone, isn't it? Based on my limited experience, he also needs to proc strength (not his most reliable growth) a ludicrous number of times in a row to 2HKO the Dark Mages with the Rinkah pairup to grant you that 5(?) turn clear. Doesn't help that chapter 4 is a hellhole for LTCing (I believe you need a rigged MU + a Yato crit on the boss to Dragon Vein the mountain to Sakura ASAP), and you have to re-start it each time you find the Kaze you got has bad early levelups. Lunatic LTC isn't for most mortals.

The best I've done for Ch4 is a 7 Turn on Lunatic. The strat was to get to the center DV point asap then force the boss to get stuck on the terrain so he'd suicide on Ryoma when Kamui stepped out of its range. A rigged Kamui with a crit could probably 5-6 turn the map if you can 1RKO everything in the middle as they carry Stat seal skills that cripple Kamui if they don't 1RKO.

If Kaze manages to gain 3(?) Str levels and dodge several ~60% hits he can barely get the 5 turn clear for Ch5. It's annoying to reset for, but given he only needs to 1RKO the mages on Turn 5 he has around 4-5 chances to land those 3 necessary str procs.

Overall I don't think LTC'ing Lunatic is as bad as it originally seems unless you get super unlucky or go for those crazy .01% CoS strategies. There's some crap in the earlygame, but once you have access to Tonics and things like Paladin Jakob things get much easier.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Gwimpage

[Shephen]

This is mildly important to me cause I wanted to marry Lazward.

It's okay, everyone forgets about Ignis...

Well if you are concerned about her and Laz's well being as units you'll want to have Kamui take Cavalier as their secondary(which is one of the classes for him/her anyways). Samurai also works to an extent.

How's Benoit in Revelation btw? He looks like a decent attack stance partner, but Silas has much more workable stats with essentially the same availability.

Pretty sure Benoit gets 2rko'd or close to by the enemy merc in his join and even worse by the Paladins. No reason to put up with him when Silas and Xander are just better and are all similar in join time frame

[Ebony]

Well if you are concerned about her and Laz's well being as units you'll want to have Kamui take Cavalier as their secondary(which is one of the classes for him/her anyways). Samurai also works to an extent.

Oya? Well I was thinking on Samurai, then couldn't Laz get Cavalier by A+ing Marxander?

[Ownagepuffs]

How's Benoit in Revelation btw? He looks like a decent attack stance partner, but Silas has much more workable stats with essentially the same availability.

He's every bit as good as he is in Nohr.

As in he isn't.

[Shephen]

Oya? Well I was thinking on Samurai, then couldn't Laz get Cavalier by A+ing Marxander?

Yeah that also works, though it will hold Xander back a bit since he and Laz don't have a fast support for whatever reason and Xander wants to start working on his Charlotte support as soon as possible.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Shephen

[Ebony]

Yeah that also works, though it will hold Xander back a bit since he and Laz don't have a fast support for whatever reason and Xander wants to start working on his Charlotte support as soon as possible.

I'm not too stingy about taking my time. I did plan on Xander x Charlotte but I'm not opposed to support grinding in My Castle if needed.

[Espinosa]

The best I've done for Ch4 is a 7 Turn on Lunatic. The strat was to get to the center DV point asap then force the boss to get stuck on the terrain so he'd suicide on Ryoma when Kamui stepped out of its range. A rigged Kamui with a crit could probably 5-6 turn the map if you can 1RKO everything in the middle as they carry Stat seal skills that cripple Kamui if they don't 1RKO.

If Kaze manages to gain 3(?) Str levels and dodge several ~60% hits he can barely get the 5 turn clear for Ch5. It's annoying to reset for, but given he only needs to 1RKO the mages on Turn 5 he has around 4-5 chances to land those 3 necessary str procs.

Overall I don't think LTC'ing Lunatic is as bad as it originally seems unless you get super unlucky or go for those crazy .01% CoS strategies. There's some crap in the earlygame, but once you have access to Tonics and things like Paladin Jakob things get much easier.

Some sort of "brisk pace" type (of any level of... hardcoreness) can definitely be enjoyed and employ a variety of nifty strategies, but lowest possible turns includes a bunch of unlikely requirements. The latter is best not started until (unless?) we figure out the trick to creating MU / starting the chapter for the perfect / optimal levelups for a couple or so key units. I can see myself doing a bunch of challenge-type runs because the games and their replay value are so good.

The best I've got so far is an 8-turn of chapter 4, but I did have MU travel all the way to where Sakura is. The last two turns are always no action at all other than Ryoma slowly getting to the nosferatu that targets Sakura on the last turn. Does the 7-turn involve MU retreating for good and not going after the Dragon Vein near Sakura? I need to try that one to see how it works out. No idea how Kaze gets to level up with this strat (he never gets the bosskill in the C4 strats I'm aware of though), but I guess there are some stragglers to bait / kill while Ryoma heads northwest.

Checking if a 5-turn is at all feasible with a rigged +spd asset MU getting perfect levelups is probably a good idea on Hard, just to know what we could be aiming for here.

My MU is +def (you need +def/+hp to shave off 1 turn off Xander's "map" on both Hard and Lunatic, which are hardly optimal builds for maximising MU's offence to say the least, and leave you prone to RNG screwage on Lunatic) so there's no chance of 1RKOing anything without Yato crits. Jakob kinda steals most of MU's exp in chapter 2/3 since he can counter 1-2 range myrms in C2 and can kill a myrm on the same turn MU DVs in C3 (needs a str proc to OHKO him with a Gunther attack stance, but C2 is so trivial to restart for that proc); granted, it's exp invested well considering what Jakob does after getting a PS, but MU wants his raw stats maximised for C4 and, to a much lesser extent, C6.

[Pokechu]

For Hoshido it would be something like (Assuming Jakob is first otherwise Deere is last)

Matoi > Sophie > Shigure > Deere > Grey > Shinonome > Kinu > Hisame > Kanna > Midoriko > Mitame > Kisagre > Shara

For Nohr it would be something like (Assuming Jakob is first otherwise Deere is last)

Lutz > Velour > Shigure > Foleo > Deere > Sophie > Eponine > Siegbert > Midoriko > Ophelia > Kanna > Soliel (I feel like I'm missing someone here...)

For IK it would be something like

Father that isn't bad > Bad Father

You do 1x for the exp. It is good exp and weapon rank training for everyone. Also Mozu's vulnerary is nice.

They only need to spend a little bit of time next each other 4 chapters since they can get the C support from 5 and 6. It is incredibly easy for them to get it in the time frame, and still maximizing both unit's usefulness.

whoah whoah whoaha

aren't those lists out of wack? I thought it was a universal consensus that Matoi, Deere, and Hisame were not-so-stellar kids, and Mitama and Shinonome are the top? And Shigure can't be better than Mitama, Kinu, etc., because he'll have bad bases due to Azura being a dancer.

And for Nohr, since you'll probably do Elise!Ophelia, that should put her higher than 3rd to last; Elise!Ophelia is the 2nd best Ophelia.

Unless I'm missing things here, since I've kind of been inactive lol to be fair tho Mitama's only really good if she gets a STR modifier mom and a STR class.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Pokechu

[Thor Odinson]

whoah whoah whoaha

aren't those lists out of wack? I thought it was a universal consensus that Matoi, Deere, and Hisame were not-so-stellar kids, and Mitama and Shinonome are the top? And Shigure can't be better than Mitama, Kinu, etc., because he'll have bad bases due to Azura being a dancer.

And for Nohr, since you'll probably do Elise!Ophelia, that should put her higher than 3rd to last; Elise!Ophelia is the 2nd best Ophelia.

Unless I'm missing things here, since I've kind of been inactive lol to be fair tho Mitama's only really good if she gets a STR modifier mom and a STR class.

This is for ingame not postgame

[Azz]

I think you should add Jakob to the Hoshido list. It is especially prevalent if you play as a female, but Jakob is the best tank you will have in Hoshido. If you reclass him to GK, not only will he be able to get Luna fairly early, but, as already said, he will be a much needed tank.

While he is useful in all three routes, Hoshido is his best as he does not have Gunter or Effie over shadowing his tanky-ness.

[Gwimpage]

For the 7 Turn I retreated southwest from the DV point and switched to Kaze lead so he could continue gaining EXP for his level up. Ryoma kept moving forward each turn and killed the majority of enemies in the center of the map. Hinoka and Ryoma killed the enemies at the top of the map and Ryoma chased down the last Faceless on Turn 7 Other Phase, which barely resulted in getting the 7 turn.

I finished a silly Lunatic Nohr LTC last month, but I used several Visitor Items. Mostly just the statboosters and a few of the low ranked weapons + Vanished Disaster Staff. There's several improvements to be made, but for a first run it wasn't a bad attempt. https://docs.google.com/document/d/11u3mOesj2jaHdgvD-lTwAkGFLlNRILeeCO1UWl80iic/edit

Paladin!Jakob, Paladin/Trueblade!Kamui, Luna, Xander, Camilla were all important units in the run. I was playing last night and Zero's Pass skill in the endgame is largely superfluous as you can simply use a Draw staff charge to remove a general out of the way for a 1 turn. You'd still need to set up a double dance for a mounted staff user to use Vanished Disaster on a bosskiller. The only way Pass helps is by offering a 100% chance of reaching the boss as the Draw staff can miss and screw you over to starting Ch27 again.