Calculations for Fates?

[Aggro Incarnate]

I've been searching for some details about calculations of all sorts in Fates; how we get the numbers that we do in this game. So far I found a comprehensive account outside of Serenes Forest at http://www2.pegasusknight.com/wiki/fe14/index.php?%E8%A8%88%E7%AE%97%E5%BC%8F, but the formulas for combat forecasts and class bonuses seemed to be somewhat incomplete.

In light of the compilations of definitive formulas as we had for Awakening (http://serenesforest.net/awakening/miscellaneous/calculations/), I thought it might be worth having something analogous for Fates as well. I've listed below some information I could find so far, and tested some of it for myself with the game that I have, but I feel like this is too much of an undertaking to do it by myself. So I decided to post a thread to see if we can get more input from others in the forum who are interested.

In brief, the suggestion is to

- confirm that the formulas that we have are correct

- find out what other things we might wish to calculate and work on discovering/confirming those

(Posted in red are personal questions of mine)

Combat Stats*

• Physical Attack = (Strength) + (Weapon Might) + (Weapon Rank Bonus)
• Magical Attack = (Magic) + (Weapon Might) + (Weapon Rank Bonus)
• Hit Rate = (Skill) x 3/2 + (Luck) x 1/2 + (Weapon Hit Bonus) + (Weapon Rank Bonus) + (Class Bonus)
• Avoid Rate = (Speed) x 3/2 + (Luck) x 1/2 + (Weapon Avoid Bonus) + (Class Bonus)
• Staff/Rod Hit Rate = (Magic) + (Skill) + (Staff/Rod Hit Rate) + (Weapon Rank Bonus) + (Class Bonus?)***
• Staff/Rod Avoid Rate = (Enemy Resistance) x 3/2 - (Enemy Luck) x 1/2
• Critical Rate = (Skill - 4) x 1/2 + (Weapon Critical Bonus) + (Class Bonus)
• Dodge Rate**= (Luck) x 1/2 + (Weapon Dodge Bonus) + (Class Bonus)
• Rating = (Strength) + (Magic) + (Skill) + (Speed) + (Luck) + (Defense) + (Resistance)

* Fractional values are rounded down to the nearest integer

** Undisplayed

*** Does Iago in Conquest Ch. 26 get Hit +5 in Staves for being a Sorcerer as well?

Combat Forecast*

• Physical Damage = [(Strength) + {(Weapon Might) - (Ineffective Weapon Might Drop)} x (Effective Damage Coefficient) + (Weapon Rank Bonus) - (Enemy Defense) - (Enemy Terrain Bonus) + (Weapon Triangle Effects) + (My Castle Effects*) + (Effects from Skills)] x (Stance Coefficient)
• Magical Damage = [(Magic) + {(Weapon Might) - (Ineffective Weapon Might Drop)} x (Effective Damage Coefficient) + (Weapon Rank Bonus) - (Enemy Resistance) - (Enemy Terrain Bonus) + (Weapon Triangle Effects) + (My Castle Effects) + (Effects from Skills)] x (Stance Coefficient)
• Hit Rate for Weapons = (Unit Raw Hit Rate**) - (Ineffective Weapon Hit Drop) + (Ally Support Hit Bonus) + (Enemy Raw Avoid Rate) - (Enemy Support Avoid Bonus) - (Enemy Terrain Effect) + (Weapon Triangle Effects) + (My Castle Effects)
• Hit Rate for Offensive Staves/Rods = (Unit Raw Staff/Rod Hit Rate) - (Enemy Raw Staff/Rod Avoid Rate) - (Enemy Support Bonus) - (Enemy Terrain Bonus) + (My Castle Effects)?
• Critical Rate = (Raw Critical Rate) + (Support) - (Enemy Raw Dodge Rate) - (Support) - (Terrain Bonus) + (My Castle Effects)

* Fractional values are rounded down to the nearest integer

** Raw Rates refer to those indicated in the Combat Stats

*** My Castle Effects refer to buffs induced by buildings, accessories, and certain My Castle-related skills.

Note: In case of a critical attack, the actual damage dealt is one indicated on the Combat Forecast multiplied by 3. For Killer weapons (i.e. weapons that 'deal extra damage on critical hits'), the damage is instead multiplied by 4.

Note: Certain effects of skills that changes damage dealt/received are also taken into account, but at various stages

• Skills that increase the main stats (Strength to Resistance) are reflected in the Combat Stats and Combat Forecast.
• Skills that increase/decrease the combat stats (Attack, Hit rate, etc.) are reflected in the Combat Stats and Combat Forecast.
• Skills that alter damage dealt or received (Rose's Thorns, Swordfaire, etc.) are reflected not in Combat Stats but are in Combat Forecast.*
• Offensive Skills with activation rates (e.g. Luna, Astra) modify the damage from the one shown in the Combat Forecast and are calculated before critical hits.
• Defensive Skills with activation rates (e.g. Pavise, Miracle) modify the damage from the one shown in the Combat Forecast and are calculated after critical hits.

Weapon Rank Bonus

Effect depends on the weapon rank and type of the equipped weapon.

(1) Sword/Katana, Dagger/Shuriken

(2) Lance/Naginata, Bow/Yumi, Tome/Scroll, Dragonstone, Beaststone, Fist, Breath, Puppet, Stone

(3) Axe/Club

(4) Staff/Rod

• E/D Rank: (1) None / (2) None / (3) None / (4) None
• C Rank: (1) Attack +1 / (2) Attack +1 / (3) Hit Rate +5 / (4) Recovery +1
• B Rank: (1) Attack +2 / (2) Attack +1, Hit Rate +5 / (3) Hit Rate +10 / (4) Recovery +1, Hit Rate +5
• A Rank: (1) Attack +3 / (2) Attack +2, Hit Rate +5 / (3) Attack +1, Hit Rate +10 / (4) Recovery +2, Hit Rate +5
• S Rank: (1) Attack +4, Hit Rate +5 / (2) Attack +3, Hit Rate +10 / (3) Attack +2, Hit Rate +15 / (4) Recovery +3, Hit Rate +10

* Note: Weapon Rank Bonus does not apply to units at disadvantage in the weapon triangle

Weapon Triangle Effects

Effect depends on the weapon rank of the unit in advantage (Advantaged Unit / Disadvantaged Unit)

• E/D Rank: Hit Rate +5 / Hit Rate -5
• C Rank: Hit Rate +10 / Hit Rate -10
• B Rank: Attack +1, Hit Rate +10 / Attack -1, Hit Rate -10
• A Rank: Attack +1, Hit Rate +15 / Attack -1, Hit Rate -15
• S Rank: Attack +2, Hit Rate +20 / Attack -2, Hit Rate -20

Effective Damage Coefficient

Effective Weapon: 3

Beastbane Skill: 2

Golembane Skill: 2

Other: 1

Effective Weapons

These weapons are listed as being 'effective against ~ units')

• Against Armored Units: Armorslayer
• Against Fliers: All Bows / Yumi (unless the unit has Wing Shield), Excalibur
• Against Wyverns / Dragons: Wyrmslayer
• Against Beasts / Horse/Bird-Mounted Units: Beast Killer, Hunter's Bow, Hunter's Knife
• Against Monsters: Blessed Lance, Blessed Bow
• Against Weapon Triangle Advantaged Weapons: Swordcatcher, Axe Splitter, Pike-Ruin Club

* Do effective damage stack?

Ex.) Hunter's Bow against Sky Knights (Fliers from Bows, Mounts from Hunter's Bow)

Ex 2.) Blessed weapons against Stoneborn while Equipping Golembane

Ineffective Weapon Drops: Reduces might by 4, hit rate by 10

In Fates, weapons effective against certain units are usually weak against other units

(ex. Beast Killers are 'effective against beasts and mounted units' but 'weak against nonbeast units')

In this case, the ineffective weapon drops apply.

Class Bonus

Note: Hit, Avoid, Critical and Dodge refers to Hit Rate, Avoid Rate, Critcial Rate and Dodge Rate, respectively.

Also, generic enemy class bonuses are halved.

• Swordmaster: Avoid +10, Critical +10
• Spear Master: Critical +10, Dodge +10
• Sniper: Hit +10, Critical +10
• Master Ninja: Hit +5, Avoid +5, Critical +5, Dodge +5
• Berserker: Critical +20, Dodge -5
• Sorcerer: Hit +5, Critical +10, Dodge +5
• Monk / Shrine Maiden / Troubadour: Dodge +10
• Nine-Tails: Avoid +10, Critical +5, Dodge +10
• Wolfssegner: Hit +10, Critical +5, Dodge +10
• Lodestar: Hit +10, Avoid +10, Critical +5
• Witch: Avoid +10, Critical +10
• Pegasus Knight (DLC Cipher): Avoid +10, Critical +5, Dodge +10
• Other: None

Stance Coefficient

Lead Unit: 1.0

Supporting Unit in Tag Team: 0.5

Weapon EXP

Units receive 1 Weapon EXP (per battle? per number of attempted hit?)

E->D: 20

D->C: 30

C->B: 45

B->A: 65

A->S: 90

Further points of inquiry?

1. EXP

Does anyone know how the EXP formula work in depth? I recall seeing accounts here and there on Serenes but it might be worth searching for a definitive account of how it depends on

- level of your unit and the enemy

- difficulty mode

- damage dealt / kill

- specific bonuses for enemy unit type (ex. outlaw / healers / bosses)

- some kind of internal level (if there are any: does EXP gain differ for the same promoted level if the promoted occured before Lv. 20? I did notice that 2nd gen units at the same level tend to earn EXP slightly quicker than 1st gen ones, but I can't be too sure)

- tag team / pair ups

- singing, staff/rod uses, etc.

2. Proc-Priority

Back in Awakening it was Lethality > Astra > Sol > Luna > Ignis > Vengeance, but now there are more procs around. (Dragon Fang, Rend Heaven, etc.), and establishing priority may be worth it since people are interested in optimising skills, for whether it be the main story, My Castle Battles, Multiplayer or whatnot.

3. Abuse prevention in higher difficulties? (EXP, WEXP, etc.)

Back in Awakening we had EXP decay in Lunatic mode and higher, and I remember something similar going on with Weapon EXP (Up to 5 battles gave WEXP or something like that?). Is there one in place in Fates as well, and how does it run?

4. How are support points built up and calculated? Are there ceilings for how many support points can be earned on how many units per chapter?

Any corrections, responses, criticisms or further contributions would be very much appreciated :)

[EDIT] 21/03/2016 Thanks for all the responses :)

[EDIT 2] 05/05/2016

Edited May 5, 2016 by Aggro Incarnate

[GoXDS]

1. enemy class bonuses are halved. eg. enemy Berserker +10 Crit -2 Dodge rather than +20 Crit -5 Dodge

2. iirc, for Tier 2, it remembers what lvl you promoted at + that Lvl/10. so a 20/10 would be Lvl 10+20+20/10 = 32 in the exp formula. a 10/10 would instead be 10+10+10/10 = 21. don't quote me on this though

3. generally the lower the proc, the higher the priority. I remember people doing testing way back and can't remember the exact placement anymore. Rend Heaven may have been before Vengeance and Dragon Fang after Astra but don't quote me on that. it's probably in the forum somewhere

4. oh, reminder that Beastbane only works in beast form so it will never have an opportunity to stack. Golembane though probably can but that's more limited in applicability

[elkygravy]

Is that a typo in the weapon rank bonus for A? There are two hit bonuses listed for Axe/Club.

Edited March 13, 2016 by elkygravy

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'm nearly certain that's a typo and that it should be Attack+1, Hit+10.

[ShermTank7272]

* Do effective damage stack?

Ex.) Hunter's Bow against Sky Knights (Fliers from Bows, Mounts from Hunter's Bow)

The Hunter's Bow is only effective against Beast units; it isn't effective against Fliers as well (so it will still be effective against Sky Knights [Flying + Beast], but not Wyvern Riders [Flying + Dragon]). The only weapon effective against multiple enemy types is the Blessed Bow (Monsters & Fliers). I'm willing to bet that this was intentional so effective weapon damage wouldn't stack. As for stacking Blessed weapons with Golembane, I don't know; I'll lab it out and report back.

[ShermTank7272]

* Do effective damage stack?

Ex 2.) Blessed weapons against Stoneborn while Equipping Golembane

Just labbed it with Yukimura and a Spirit Katana in an Invasion battle

27 STR

+ [(5 Mt - 0 Eff. Mt drop) * x ]

+ 4 (S Rank)

+ 0 (no WTA)

+ 2 (from Avatar's personal skill)

+ 7 (Lv 3 Quarters)

- 26 DEF

= 29 Damage on forecast

Solve for x and it's 3.

For sake of comparison, with a Venge Katana:

27 STR

+ [(9 Mt - 0 Eff. Mt drop) * x ]

+ 4 (S Rank)

+ 0 (no WTA)

+ 2 (from Avatar's personal skill)

+ 7 (Lv 3 Quarters)

- 26 DEF

= 32 Damage on forecast

Solve for x in this case, and it's 2.

So it seems that effective weapon coefficients take precedent over effective skill coefficients. In both cases, the number was green, indicating effective damage.

[ShermTank7272]

*** Does Iago in Conquest Ch. 26 get Hit +5 in Staves for being a Sorcerer as well?

Yes he does. Just tested it.

Iago, with 35 Mag and 24 Skill, would have a 144 hit chance with his Freeze staff if he didn't get any class bonuses.

My Effie at this point, counting all pair up/debuff/rally/etc. bonuses, has 22 Res and 29 Lck, making for a 47.5 staff avoid rate.

When Iago attempted to cast Freeze on Effie, he had a 100% hit chance. 144-47.5=96.5, so if he didn't get any class bonus, he would not have had a 100% hit rate, so I believe he does get a Hit bonus in Staves as well.

[Ceniza]

Are those numbers for WEXP cumulative, or for one rank to the next?

[Dark Holy Elf]

One rank to the next. If it were cumulative, then it C->B would take less weapon exp than E->D and I can certainly confirm from personal experience that this is not the case. So the cumulative totals should be:

D: 20
C: 50
B: 95
A: 160
S: 250