Mitsuki

@Rein: I'm amazed at the fact that you're making this something about my case being dumb and not about you being town. I'm here to play mafia, not to play "let's see whose ego is bigger". [9/3/15, 9:51:01 PM] Reinfleche: then she was like that's why blitz died N1??? ^ what, no. I never said that. I think Blitz died because he's a good player. Also Blitz's points were Blitz's, not mine, as I said in my post. I brought them up because if I died and had a suspicion, I would like the people who I talked with to bring up my reads. Anyways Rein's response looks townie to me for the same reason Darrman's response to Elie looked townie. I doubt scum would be this confrontational, and his defense looks genuine. Specially how butthurt he seems to be at the fact that he's been cased. Still, @Rein: Why didn't you prioritize explaining your reads to anyone, and just talked about them when asked about it?

And yeah, before anyone asks, not voting was a terrible idea and I do think Rein is scum, so

Let's look at the facts: The cop is dead, and if this is 10/4/1 as Refa thought, we only have one mislynch left due to NLing D1. Usually you'd think we're pretty screwed. Let's face it, we don't know how to play OC. At least not most of us. So let's use the thread as if it were NOC. That doesn't mean stopping using OC means, of course. Use them as much as you want, they're there for a reason. But your cases and your thoughts on other people's cases, as long as they don't rely in private info, should go in the thread. OC is for roles, NOC is for tells. Let's make the best use we can of both. So let's get started, ##Vote: Reinfleche Disregard the last part of my post, which we already talked about, and Blitz's thoughts on (not) lynching the ITP. BBM also brought a relevant point in Skype that goes in line with my first point: BBM asked Rein about his thoughts on the game after the D1 NL, and Rein told him about he NL and Refa, but didn't tell him about his Faerie scumread. As far as I can tell, Rein only told people about his scumread when he was directly asked about it, which is further proof about him not caring about pushing his scumreads. BBM, if you can post the chat in the thread it'd be appreaciated. Also, I don't like how Paperblade jumped to defend Rein when I asked him about my case, but around a day before that he told Marth that Rein could be scum. If Rein was town and Paperblade had something to suspect him on I would have expected him to contact me and tell me he thought Rein was scum as well, even if he told me that he didn't agree with my case anyways.

Why do you think he's scum? Do you agree with my case? Which points, and why?

Because I'm not sure of my case anymore, in spite of still thinking that Rein is the scummiest person in the game and him not giving a fuck about my case. I want to rethink all my reads.

Actually, fuck it. I'm requesting to be the town leader, and for the current backup leader to remain hidden as backup town leader. Backup town leader can decide on going along this or not, but either way, please contact me before making a decision. If someone doesn't trust me and would rather not let me be town leader, please go ahead and say so in the thread. I want to be town leader, but I hate how I have had no word on deciding who the backup town leaders were so I'm not going to be an ass and do the same.

We don't need a candidate by the way, just as clarification. Gaius chose someone who should have all the info already, from what he told me.

SERIOUSLY, DON'T EVER DO THAT AGAIN

WHO HAD THE GREAT IDEA OF MAKING THE COP THE BACKUP TOWN LEADER BECAUSE IT WAS SO DUMB Anyways backup town leader should step up and contact me before doing anything else because I have shit to tell them

In thread? but sure

##unvote ##Vote: Paperblade CRIMINAL JUSTICE

Darrman get on IRC, I've been wanting to talk to you for a while

##Vote: Rein The backup leader should step up and say if there's a guilty, but this is my scumread.

@Faerie: He contacted me inmediately after that message but we only talked for a few minutes, and only about the last point. He hasn't contacted me since then.

Are you town in Kirsche's game? If so, how do you feel about it right now? How do you feel the game is going? Who are you scumreading? Who are you townreading? Explain. Feel free not to talk about any of those if you're not ok with it, though. What do you think of my case on Rein?

Fight me in NOC, Rein. My first thoughts on Rein were that he was null-ok, but after a couple of times of contacting him and seeing him reply in a steady pace I began to grow suspicious. Granted, he’s been busy, but it seemed to me that he was coasting on that fact to avoid engaging in OC contact. And then the NL happened. Rein complained about it, and not without a reason. But his thoughts on the whole thing weren’t clear. So I went ahead and talked to him, and asked about his reads. He claimed to be scumreading Faerie Knight. This is part of our log: [spoiler=Not reading the terms of service implies agreeing with them][31/08/2015 19:52:16] Mitsuki: also, what exactly are you scumreading Faerie on? [31/08/2015 19:55:07] Reinfleche: his defense post [31/08/2015 19:55:32] Reinfleche: didn't even try and suggest an alternate lynch that'd be better [31/08/2015 19:57:04] Reinfleche: just lists a bunch of town reads and is like LAME [31/08/2015 19:57:13] Mitsuki: that was around 40 min before deadline [31/08/2015 19:57:35] Mitsuki: 40 min before deadline I wouldn't think my lynch would change [31/08/2015 19:58:21] Mitsuki: also I see how not suggesting another lynch would make sense if he actually has no scumreads, so that's a null point [31/08/2015 19:58:26] Mitsuki: well, that's how I see it [31/08/2015 19:58:29] Mitsuki: thoughts? [31/08/2015 19:58:59] Reinfleche: it came off as really halfassed to me [31/08/2015 19:59:13] Reinfleche: i don't get why we didn't lynch him [31/08/2015 19:59:47] Mitsuki: (me neither but now I wouldn't lynch him) [31/08/2015 19:59:52] Mitsuki: also in which sense? [31/08/2015 20:00:39] Reinfleche: what do you mean in which sense [31/08/2015 20:00:55] Reinfleche: also why not [31/08/2015 20:00:55] Mitsuki: halfassed in which sense? [31/08/2015 20:01:19] Mitsuki: because I read his defense post again [31/08/2015 20:01:31] Mitsuki: and the first bit seems more like town rage [31/08/2015 20:01:35] Mitsuki: by a fair margin [31/08/2015 20:01:41] Reinfleche: really? [31/08/2015 20:02:24] Mitsuki: yes [31/08/2015 20:02:28] Mitsuki: let me find it again [31/08/2015 20:02:35] Reinfleche: it didn't come off that way to me [31/08/2015 20:03:06] Mitsuki: "Also, ok, I'm cagey for not wanting to claim right away and asking you to prove what you could first. I'm sorry I don't trust people that​ easily in this game. It seems I'm alone in that, with how many of you are just following Refa's lead." specially this bit [31/08/2015 20:03:44] Reinfleche: that didn't look that townie to me [31/08/2015 20:03:58] Mitsuki: I can see how a townie with the mindest of "this people are dumb and lynching me for dumb reasons" could make that post [31/08/2015 20:04:14] Reinfleche: "god i'm scum for not claiming? fuckin sheeple" is how it looks on my end [31/08/2015 20:04:28] Mitsuki: and I don't think scum in the same situation would use the wording he's using [31/08/2015 20:05:01] Reinfleche: shrug I don’t know what to make out of the contents of the scumread itself. The thing is, during the whole time I had to be pushing Rein so that he explained his logic better. To me it seemed like he wasn’t really putting an effort on getting me to understand his read, or on convincing me. Which I see as scummy, because town will want to argue their cases and convince others of them so that their actual scumreads are more likely to be lynched. I’m interpreting the lack of interest on that field as scum who don’t care about who’s lynched as long as it’s not them. Coincidentally, some time before I had asked Rein about what he would do if he had a scumread in OC to ask for advice, and he said that he’d try to talk about it with other people and see their thoughts. So I went ahead and did that, contacting the most trustworthy and townie person in this game. Someone who, incidentally, is now dead. [spoiler=Who could it be?][31/08/2015 20:17:18] Mitsuki: also that's not all, I'm scumreading Rein [31/08/2015 20:17:33] Mitsuki: [explaining] [31/08/2015 20:17:35] Tinker Blitz: I am too Oh. Let’s see the rest of the log: [spoiler=Disregard most of what I say, I changed my opinion on most of this][31/08/2015 20:17:42] Mitsuki: oh [31/08/2015 20:17:43] Mitsuki: YAY [31/08/2015 20:17:51] Tinker Blitz: I think he is scum based on the post in thread [31/08/2015 20:18:00] Tinker Blitz: he is complaining about the NL [31/08/2015 20:18:06] Mitsuki: also his instance on Faerie seems sort of unreasonable (on Skype) [31/08/2015 20:18:11] Tinker Blitz: when he knows NL is a good option in OC [31/08/2015 20:18:18] Tinker Blitz: I have no idea on that [31/08/2015 20:18:23] Tinker Blitz: can you share logs? [31/08/2015 20:18:49] Mitsuki: [log I pasted at the beginning of the post] [31/08/2015 20:19:46] Mitsuki: doesn't seem like he cares about my thoughts on his scumread as well, I expect town would be more eager to prove it right AND to convince people [31/08/2015 20:20:50] Tinker Blitz: umm, I actually agree with Rein's thoughts on Faerie [31/08/2015 20:20:56] Tinker Blitz: his post indeed was half baked [31/08/2015 20:21:16] Tinker Blitz: I mean, I didn't think he dropped anything that cannot easily be faked [31/08/2015 20:21:26] Tinker Blitz: and he is still kind of a scumread for me [31/08/2015 20:21:50] Mitsuki: I don't think that part was unreasonable [31/08/2015 20:22:30] Mitsuki: but how he "argues" for his case seems unreasonable to me [31/08/2015 20:22:57] Tinker Blitz: let me reread [31/08/2015 20:23:38] Mitsuki: he doesn't really try to explain, just justify holding the suspicion [31/08/2015 20:24:52] Tinker Blitz: oh, well, umm, if you ask me, I would say Faerie was using AtE at that point [31/08/2015 20:25:05] Tinker Blitz: which he used to get away from getting lynched [31/08/2015 20:25:20] Tinker Blitz: if I were in Refa's shoes, I would have gone for the lynch [31/08/2015 20:25:37] Mitsuki: same (at that moment) [31/08/2015 20:25:49] Mitsuki: anyways I'll just disregard that point [31/08/2015 20:25:53] Tinker Blitz: I would agree to lynch him D2 as well [31/08/2015 20:26:02] Mitsuki: what do you think of the rest? [31/08/2015 20:26:18] Tinker Blitz: I think Rein's talk is basically scum trying to look townie [31/08/2015 20:26:26] Tinker Blitz: by bussing his buddy [31/08/2015 20:26:33] Tinker Blitz: after all is said and done [31/08/2015 20:26:47] Tinker Blitz: so, he essentially bussed his buddy [31/08/2015 20:26:53] Tinker Blitz: one the buddy cannot be lynched [31/08/2015 20:27:35] Tinker Blitz: I still find him to be scummy for this post [31/08/2015 20:27:37] Tinker Blitz: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57106&page=7#entry3987460 [31/08/2015 20:27:57] Tinker Blitz: see, he says we should have lynched the ITP, but, in OC, that is not a must [31/08/2015 20:28:05] Tinker Blitz: the lynch I mean and he should have known that [31/08/2015 20:28:13] Tinker Blitz: yet he is arguing that NL was really bad Tl;dr Blitz was scumreading Rein on how he complained about the NL (since he argues that Rein should know that letting the ITP live is a reasonable thing to do in OC) and he also thought Rein was scum bussing Faerie Knight to gain towncred when the D1 deadline had already passed. These aren’t my thoughts, but I felt like I had to at least share them. A day later deadline happened, and my waifu died. But ~1 hour before deadline I asked to some people who they thought would die. I’m leaving all of those here for reference, but you only need to read Rein’s one (no day timestamps because I copypasted all of those into my Thoughts QT the same day). General opinion: Everybody said that Refa could die, and almost everyone said that he'd die if scum had a strongman. Some others said that maybe I’d die, and others that Blitz may die. Rein’s opinion is quite different from the general opinion in 2 points: Not citing that there could be a strongman. Which is weird because it’s Rein and I expect Rein to have that kind of stuff into account, when a lot of other players who have the same or less experience than him have taken it into account. But I wouldn’t see it as that telling if it weren’t for: Citing the doctor. It’s not an unreasonable assumption to think there’s a doctor, but I find scummy that the focus of attention is put in the roles that town could have instead of the roles that scum could have. Rein was indeed assuming that scum wouldn’t have a strongman kill and that doc would be a problem for scum. And then Blitz died, probably indicating that scum have no strongman kill after all. I think that Rein is scum who didn’t think of the strongman kill in the first place because he knew that he didn’t have one. ##FoS: Rein because that's the next best thing you can do when you can't vote Overall I think this is way too much evidence for him not to be scum. But hey, any thoughts, whether in the thread or on Skype are appreciated. We need to get to discussing scumreads already.

##Vote: SB I kind of wanted to delay doing this until I finished some dumb paperwork. Also hammering SB as a sign of my appreciation to him.

I was just thinking that 48h days suck and that nights would be too long and people would remain mostly inactive during them, so yes please

ok I've talked to Refa, I'm dumb. ##unvote ##vote: NL

and atm i'm basically a townie [22:24:34] SB: and if i do anything out of line i'm kinda fucked [22:25:21] Mitsuki: the thing is, I'm pretty sure you can't win with town, so at some moment we'll have to lynch you [22:25:40] SB: even if that's true, not today [22:25:54] Mitsuki: but it means wasting one lynch [22:25:57] Mitsuki: hence my decision I'm keeping my vote.

##unvote ##vote: SB well look, fuck it. I'd rather lynch SB than Faerie at this point, because even if I do believe SB is 3rd party Faerie doesn't look like scum to me right now, and I cannot know if SB can win along with town. cut, I prefer lynching the 3rd party than NL

##unvote ##vote: Faerie Knight it makes no difference whether I vote or not but whatever. I'm inclined to believe SB and while I'm not 100% convinced about this I prefer it over lynching SB. I explained my reasoning to Blitz and I'm too lazy to explain again, but basically I agree his attitude towards Refa was weird and I think he tried to avoid talking with me about the game by talking about other stuff.

Well there's definitely a tailor or similar (which is why rule 4 is there) but SB's also definitely scum so

fuck ##unvote ##vote: SB oh I think that's L-3 and that's enough votes at this point of the game. I want to use the time left in the phase to scumhunt, since I haven't had any real scumread for the whole game, unless you count SB. Don't hammer him early.

##Vote: SB Logic here, I wanted to wait to see if SB tried to actually defend himself in-thread, which he hasn't. Basically I think he's scum who's just assumed that he's getting lynched and he's passively waiting for that or for someone to save his ass. Yes I'm back to ignoring role stuff.