SonPancham
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My take on Characters as well. Gonna try go through all characters except kids. Beware.
Marx - 25
Ryouma -25
Camilla - 23
Hinoka - 21-22 (looks younger than Camilla)
Aqua - 18 (similar to Kamui)
Kamui - 18 (guessing that because its the age to be considered an adult an make some big CHOICES (I'm Aus and that's our adult age)
Leon/Takumi- 17
Sakura - 14
Elise -14
Silas - 18 (Age as Kamui and helps them being besties)
Kaze/Saizou - 27(old enough to to remember Kamui's kidnapping. Guessing Kamui taken when he was 5 meaning that kaze/saizou were 14)
Kagerou - 27 (similar age to other ninjas)
Gunther - 45 (old enough to have a reputation and respect with Garon)
Felicia/Flora - 19
Jakob - 23 (older than the maid twins)
Asyura - 30 (looks older than the ninjas)
Izana - 30
Mozume - 18
Mikoto - 44 and looking good
Rinkah - 21
Hana -16
Tsubaki -18
Orochi - 27 (best friends with Kagerou. Also is 10 years older than Takumi)
Asama - 22
Setsuna - 22
Tsukuyomi - 15 (looks real young and going through the earlier stages of puberty)
Oboro - 18
Hinata - 19
Yuuguri - 43 (Besties with Mikoto)
Nishiki - 22
Crimson - 25 (Same age as Ryouma)
Yukimura - 43( been with the Royals for a while)
Sumeragi - 31 (time of death. Mikoto(44) - Kamui (18) = 26 + 5( time of kidnapping) = 31
Garon- 46
Arthur - 29
Effie - 17
Odin - 20
ZeRo - 26 (old enough to know who he is and has searched himself i guess)
Nyx - 35 but looks 18
Luna - 20 (Same as Odin)
Belka - 21
Lazward 19
Pieri -22
Benoit - 30
Charlotte - 25
Flannel -22
Fuuga - 45 (besties with Sumeragi)
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I know right? The remakes would get 7.8: Too little incest. In all seriousness though I'm glad FE4 and FE5 aren't getting remade. Can you imagine what it would be like playing the remakes with an avatar character like Kris, Kamui, or Robin?
And then it turned out, that you the playable character had Lopto/Naga blood. Or some other random blood with a sword because they need to make thirteen crusaders just for you.
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The implementation is what I have a problem with more than the actual themes itself. In FE4, the main incest was between two half-siblings who were tricked into procreating so that they'd produce a compatible vessel for an evil god. The marriage system was present because in FE4 the majority of your first generation dies and their children take up the helm some 17 years later. The incest and the marriage system both have a plot point in FE4, which is why it was implemented well. I think that marriage was all right in Awakening because the story was about time-traveling kids from the future who came back to stop a great disaster from happening. Whether the story itself was great or not, there was a reason for the kids and the marriage system coming back.
Fates doesn't have a story reason for the kids to be there, and even less of a reason for them to grow up so fast after they are born. The main storyline (and by storyline I mean the main chapters, no supports or paralogues or DLC) always pushes the Nohr and Hoshido siblings as Kamui's family, and it's especially egregious that you never find out that the Hoshido siblings aren't related to you in the Hoshido route. Honestly, they were pushing a theme of family and sibling love and then they decided to make siblings marriageable and it basically contradicted its own theme.
That's basically what I have a problem with. To my knowledge, no other FE game has contradicted its own damn theme as hard as Fates did.
The second paragraph pretty much. I haven't played the game but I wish the Hoshidan's were full siblings and marrying them I think is silly.
Finally we have axe ladies who and pegasus men!! I don't mind shipping and S-Supports as long as the supports develop character.
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Looks great Arch! Love the trailer. It features Cain my favourite character. If possible, could you have cameos of his brothers at some point. That moustache is majestic btw. Hope to hear more from you. Also, willing to do supports if you want. I did a Cain x Jagen if you're interested.
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Neither of them have incredible bases or other special attributes, but their bases/growths seem good enough to get by. Heroes suffer a little from 1-2 range axes not being as good, but they're still a solid choice. Would go for Hero over Bow Knight for both of them due to better bases overall and Sol>Rally Skill.
Hmm, so no stand out stats but good to go though. I didn't use 1-2 axes as much but its good to know what to be aware of. Gonna make Lazward into Chrom Jr now he can get aether and charm (DLC classes I think).
Silas can be a better Hero than both.
Luna is going to deal few damages in later chapters with a sword. Bows have higher Mt to fix her Str, and there are many Falcon/Golden-kite Warriors in Nohr route.
Luna has good Spd&Def for Kunaibreaker. Somebody may say "Nohr 25 is only a single chapter" though...
One more reason to use Bow Knight Luna is the unique outfit.
Silas will probably stay as a mounted unit. Will uses Luna for her Bow Knight outfit. Diversity is cool, and the tip is noted (thanks very much).
Also, would Odin rather be a magic or physical unit.
Also, does HInata's personal skill also inflict half damage. What build could he use to be viable.
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What about Lazward and Luna? Which one is better (or is a lot worse than the other). Are they salvageable? Are heroes good in this game?
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This is just theory, but couldn't Tsubaki be good at chipping? With skills like Perfectionist + Flowing Strike (Avoid and hit is high) as well as line of death (+10 damage when entering battle I believe) and astra (high skill and means multiple hit with range weapons) couldn't Tsubaki be used well on the player phase? Could he be used as a spear thrower who deals damage efficiently? (BTW i do realise he is a bit outclassed by Ryouma and his sweg sword). Do you think this build is viable?
Tsubaki - Falcon Warrior
Perfectionist (Personal)
Astra
Line of Death
Flowing Strike
Filler Skill
Filler Skill
I also haven't played the game and haven't taken in marriage/buddying into consideration.
But Sol could be used to keep him on high hp.
Also, any thoughts on Lazward and his strengths and weaknesses? He's my favourite of the three.
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Bandit twins are William and Hormone. Interestingly, their growths fit Bord and Cord
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Yes but... I don't feel like that would count as an archtype or trend? That feels waaaay too wide ranging imo. Like...
"First mage who joins" "First healer who joins"
It just doesn't seem like it's really... a thing...? Because like what's next? "First person with blue hair who joins?"
Yeah I understand where you're coming from. But in my forum article which I linked, I kind of decided not to link archetypes to character names that weren't consensual. For example I had a little stump saying that Ricken was a Merric which I believe but another guy didn't so I changed it to early male wind mage. Otherwise, this game probably doesn't use traditional archetypes. What we could do is find similar traits that characters from this game share with characters from previous. We should be looking at 4 or more characters (including the one from fates) to maybe cement an archetype.
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Keep in mind that with that logic, you could also argue that Luna/Lazward are in the Bord/Cord archetype. Sure they're not fighters, but Kaze/Saizou aren't cavaliers and they're Cain/Abel.
Anyway Gunther is a Jeigan but only in the IK route whereas on the Nohr route, he's more like Zealot. Camilla seems to be Nohr's Jeigan instead.
3/4 of the cast are Ests on IK lol.
I don't think a lot of the archetypes fit though. Fates doesn't use a lot of the traditional archetypes unless you count "first armor knight who joins" as an archetype.
I agree with that Fates doesn't use the traditional archetypes. But I do believe that trends from previous games are in Fates. With 'first armour knight who joins' I believe it goes something like Draug -> Bors -> Oswin-> Gilliam -> Gatrie .... Elfie. This is just an example.
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http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=54765&hl=
This was my previous forum about archetypes. Most of it was pre release data and hopefully it helps. Most of it was speculation.
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Hisame has a unique weapon master palette. He's blue not the brown.
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“I like shorts! They’re comfy and easy to wear!” -Youngster
Honestly, fanservice. That's probably why.
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Ahahah. Yes the head is a very nice place. It helps me keep safe.
For your first point, I agree he was probably born in Ylisse. Im not sure which timeline Lazward comes from. It is implied but not confirmed that the other kids were born in Ylisse, but him being Ylissean implies he has a Ylissean father.
For you second, Lon'qu is a good candidate yes I will agree. But Chrom and Inigo I feel are a bit more similar. For Frederick, I see his main weapon as his lance, due to having a higher rank and silver lance. Gregor wasn't included because I feel Lazward's father is Ylissean.
For the third, yes a bug landing on your face is weird. But I was trying to link the support convo of Lucina and Inigo to Flannel and Lazward's convo because of its similarities. It shows evidence of his personality.
The rest of the arguments are subjective but I feel as if it has some merit. It is my headcanon and I actually appreciate you took time to read it and argue back. Thank you Taka-Kun!!
Also, thank you Neko knight. The conclusions I guess are a bit far fetched but at least you thought about it.
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Chrom's son. Undeniably it is head canon with support from fates. Some arguments (some Awakening evidence) is taken from Meteor's post. Credit to him. Without ado, lets find out why Lazward is Chrom's son. Some spoilers with supports.
1.Support with Marx
- Lazward: Master Marx, you don't have a Mark in your eye.
- Marx: Huh？A mark？
- Lazward: Yeah. Like, the crest of Nohr's royal family. I was wondering if you had that kind of mark.
- Marx: What in the world are you saying？ It would be painful if there was that sort of thing in your eye.
- Lazward: Ahhaha, you could say that, huh. But, the ruler of my country had it. So, I thought maybe Master Marx too...
- Marx: Huh… it's rare that you talk of your home.
Lazward says MY country. This means he is from Ylisse. Eligible Ylissean males for Olivia are Chrom, Frederick, Vaike, Stahl, Gaius, Libra, Kellam, Donnel and Ricken.2.Class
Lazward users swords primarily. This leaves Chrom, Stahl and Gaius as possible daddies for our sword using unit.
3. Support with Soleil
- LAZWARD: Yeah. But, after I became your dad, I came to understand how my own mom and dad felt too. They wanted to protect their kid, even if it cost them their own life.
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- SOLEIL: I... I don't want that!
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- LAZWARD: I know. I won't die, I promise.
This talks about how Inigo doesn't wanna die and he wants to protect his daughter and how he will stay alive. This is parallel to Stahl's and Chrom's support from Future past. Both promise they will be alive.- Inigo: All right, Father. But promise me you'll be okay. I couldn't stand to watch you die.
- Stahl: Neither one of us is going to die. I promise. We're going to be okay
- Inigo: ...... ...Yes. Thank you, Father.
- Chrom: No thanks needed. I wouldn't have it any other way.
- Inigo: Just promise you'll stay alive.
- Chrom: All right, I promise!
Gaius however, talks about Candy.We've narrowed it down to Stahl and Chrom.3.Support with Flannel- Lazwald: I know what you're up to. I bet you came to show off some weird treasure?
- Flannel: As expected of Lazwald! Bingo!
- Lazwald: Ok, stop stop. Don't get too close to me.
- Flannel: What?! You can't see it if I don't come closer, right?
- Lazwald: Don't you remember? What happened the other day. You tried to show me this huuuuge weird bug... It flew right at my face and wouldn't get off.
- Flannel: Hahahahaha! That was hilarious!
- Lazwald: It was a disaster for me... it was so creepy. Anyways, I don't want to see something like that for a second time.
Where have we seen this before? The support between Inigo and Lucina as siblings. Inigo is afraid bugs in that support and is afraid in this one as well.
- Inigo: This place is a mess. I really should straighten up more...often... Is that a... AAAAAAAAAUGH!
- Lucina: Gods, I've never seen Inigo run so fast! Are we under attack?! Inigo! What happened back there? ...Are you all right?!
- Inigo: L-Lucinaaa!
- Lucina: Breathe, Inigo. Calm down and tell me what happened. You have nothing to fear now that I'm here.
- Inigo: B-b-bug! A bug!
- Lucina: ...A bug? ...As in...an insect?
- Inigo: As in a huge, horrid nightmare, with repulsive, hairy legs... It's TERRIBLE!
- Lucina: You're telling me all of your screaming and flailing was over an INSECT? *sigh* I thought the Risen had come. You could have sent the camp into a panic.
- Inigo: AAAAAH! It's back! And it can fly?! S-stay back! Don't come close, fiend!
Inigo being Chrom's son makes this support possible.
Awakening arguments
Meteor's: Olivia does not need to have any support conversations with Chrom to marry him. Thanks IS for forcing this pairing down my throat! Lucina, being a daddy's girl, knew knew all too well that Chrom would fall for her instantly, which is why she needed them to meet.
* Olivia and Inigo both wield swords. Chrom and Lucina also conveniently wield swords. incredible coincidence or family trait???
* Inigo looks fabulous in blue hair, just like in his official artwork.
* Lucina's support conversation with her mother is on the topic of dresses. Only Olivia wears dresses, so it's pretty safe to say this was written with her intended as the mother.Expanding on some and my own
1.Expanding on the sword trait, look at the hero class. Now look at the Great Lord class. Both use swords and shields. Furthermore, the skill Sol, is half of the skill Aether which Chrom and Lucina have. This is representative of Inigo's inability to be like his dad. The hero class is also representative of him being similar to a great lord but not one. Also, the Falchion means more to Inigo then Lucina's other possible siblings. It is mentioned in his Lucina Sibling support and Chrom Future Past. Swords mean alot to this family.
You and she are...very alike.
Inigo is talking about how he's different, and how he can't be like Chrom and how Lucina is more like Chrom then he is.
2.Another reason why he is the son of Chrom is because they look alike.
Inigo: ...We LOOK alike
IS is acknowledging that they look alike. Blue motiff for sword users (barring Owain) of the Royal family.
3.He has the brand. No other child that Chrom has(barring Lucina) has the brand. He is explicitly stated to have it. In his right eye to compliment Lucina's left. Inigo is the parallel to Lucina. They have similar traits but at the same time, he is the flamboyant, lucky go round compared to Lucina's seriousness.
Feel free to disagree and all. But the evidence is pretty overwhelming. Ahahah. The power of HEADCANON is staggering.
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Golden Kite Warrior. Flying archers. Nuff said.
Weapon master = weapon triangle control.
Holy Lancer = foot units with lancers is awesome.
Great Merchant. Merchants are cool and can't wait to see it in action.
Revenant knight . Camilla is the only reason.
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Can we have Parents Only or Kids Only metas?
I would like that.
If Lethality can be stopped by Miracle, then I don't think Lethality should be banned. Unless Miracle has no way of being included in a skillset which can boost its activation rate.
This would mean a lot of work unless we stick to those two. I do like the idea though. We could also run other metas such as Males only and females only.
Lethality is powerful and should probably be limited to one member of the team. 1/5 members doesn't seem like to much of a threat for now. We need to test its effectiveness first in battle.
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we could make the skills like yugioh. I know the banlist is constantly changing and all. For example we could limit copycat to one unit and possibly sol/luna to two units. But it would need to take a lot of research because certain skill combos could be broken.
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Takumi - Holy Bowman (power)/Golden kite fighter (range and movement)
Breaking sky - Basara (Proc skill)
Defence Seal - Lancer
Speed Seal - Holy Lancer
Sun God (Support if surrounded by allies)/Bowfaire (power)
Raven Strike (more likely to HIT the enemy and to get debuffs on enemies on the player phase).
Takumi here is to just kind of chip damage to the enemy with his bow. Also the debuffs he gets on the enemy if he hits others can kind of finish it off.
Lazward - Class is Brave hero
Copycat puppet - If it copies the personal skill then 2 azure dances.
Sol - To survive longer
Stubborness - Again to survive longer so he can dance around. The puppet should be pretty sturdy as well.
Snake venom - to chip EXTRA damage WHEN attacking
Kunai Breaker - to survive longer as well
Lazward here is to survive and dance around.
Marriage seals were not taken into account.
These sets are based on the player phase
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Is Kanna's gender dependent on what gender Kamui is?
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I don't really know Meg and Gatrie enough so I'm gonna trust you on that one :)
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True it's possible Charlotte and Harold are related. At the moment we just know them as "Elize's subordinate with da chin" and "gold-digger mercenary" though and I'm trying to avoid speculation as much as possible here :P
But They could fit Bord & Cord if they actually are closely related.
I blame auto-correct on that Samus thing. (And having to add Samus into the dictionary in the first place)
You mean Reyson? Or Rafiel? Maybe, I don't remember if their gender was ever questioned (yes that's my main trait for a "Lucius"). Also, Midayle from FE4 could fit too. And Tsubaki Definitely.
for meta reasons if nothing elseI wouldn't consider Lon'qu a Nabarl myself, since he's not a recruitable enemy, but his personality fits.
Kind of related to that, the reason I don't like "first of class X" archetypes is because most are so loosely defined and all-inclusive. I just can't see Kellam, Gatrie, Meg and Oswin as same archetype as Draug, for example.
Reyson (not included for now) is the one I think. Possibly Tsubaki and Midayle as the Lucius. This means we have at least 4 characters (Lucius, Midayle, Libra, Tsubaki) in the archetype so possibly it is one now. I agree with "first class of x" being very vague as well, though I think Kellam and Oswin are still Draugs. I think the Draug should have probably be defined as "Early armour knight with loyalty/close affliation with x lord. Kellam is connected with Chrom (kind of iffy) and Oswin is definitely connected to Hector. Maybe its because they don't have green on them you can't see them as Draugs?
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That's sort of what I'm pointing out though, unless there's a thread for the explicit purpose of labelling units to those archetypes, they aren't used particularly often (pretty rarely, in fact). Also, Merric (I'll just go by FE11 since it has higher difficulties) can wreck things on H5 with his 13 Mt Excalibur, whereas Ricken is pretty weak on Lunatic with his 4 Mt Elwind. Plus, he doesn't have a Prf wind magic. If we stop counting his starting tome, since it's equally usable by Miriel or Robin, all that makes Merric and Ricken comparable are their class and gender. They don't perform similarly, though, which makes the statement of Ricken being a "Merric" a misleading one. The ones I picked for gameplay are because they stick out as particularly good (or bad) and one could say they have a major impact on gameplay, since a Jeigan is who makes the early stages more doable (and, depending on game, drops eventually), Christmas Cavs are typically used in every playthrough with good stats all around and high movement, Ests are way behind the stat curve and likely to give you tedium when getting trained, Gotohs are supposed to be awesome statistically, but come very late in the game, and Avatar is a very strong unit modifiable by the player. It's a bit a matter of preference, since all archetypes are pretty arbitrary, but given the gameplay differences between the various Fighters, Knights and Mages, I don't think it's worth arbitrarily comparing them to an FE1 (or FE11, since they have similar units). Outside of this thread or similar ones, I have never seen such units being attributed to class-based archetypes, and I think one could drop those archetypes without anything valuable being lost.
Hmm, you make valid points. However, I think the idea of archetypes mainly link similar characteristics. This thread is about mainly trying to match up characters from Fates with other characters in past games with similar personalities/traits/trends. Through using names(though it may not be common) its easier to link characters from this game with certain recurring traits with those from previous games. We could drop archetypes like these, but its fun to match them up.
I don't like "the first unit of Class X" archetypes like Ogma or Julian, so I'm skipping those.
Saizou & Kaze seem to definitely be the Cain&Abel archetype with their personalities and color schemes.
With Kagerou in the mix, those three could also form a "Ninja Trio" too. We did have a knight trio once after all.
Gunter seems to fit Jegan or Oifey one. Felicia or Jakob might too, it's a bit hard to tell at this point at which points these three join.
Mozume or children will probably fit the Est archetype, but hard to say now. It's almost certain an Est will appear though.
Same with Camus, Gharnef, Gotoh and such, we'll most likely see them. Xander and Ryoma might fit the Gotoh archetype.
On some suggested above:
- Charlotte and Harold don't seem like Bord and Cord to me, since there seems to be no personal relation between them. I value that brotherly relationship in that archetype (For the record I count Wade and Lot but not Boyd and Nolan in this)
- the personality of neither Hinata or Hana fits Nabarl. EDIT: also the recruitable enemy part seems to miss.
- Saizou and Kaze being Arran and Samus in Nohr doesn't work for me since you automatically get Kaze. Ironically enough the nations (and your siblings in them) might fit that archetype though.
Also, what makes an archetype an archetype?
For example, if Catria and Cordelia are enough to become one (though I don't agree), could we talk about a "Lucius" archetype?
I too value the brother/camaraderie thing as well. However, we don't know if Harold and Charlotte are related yet or not (they are both blond, hopefully brother and sister). I do like how the siblings can be Arran and Samson (not Samus lol too much metroid for you). Lucius as an archetype could be since we consider Catria as one. It has Lucius, Libra and that heron guy (name escapes me) from Radian Dawn I suppose. Question: Would we consider Lon'qu a Nabarl?
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I'm not good at recognising most archetypes outsides basics like Cain/Able or Jaigen.
However I have a complaint on how you started with fates first but quickly flipped to the archetype first and I request you fix it so they're all in the same order.
Fixed :) thanks for noticing
I disagree on all archetypes except for plot Camus, Michalis and Gharnef, and for gameplay Jagen, Christmas Cavs, Est, Gotoh and Avatar. The others are roughly never used when referring to units, since you can just say "Ward and Lot are Fighters" instead of "Ward and Lot are Bord and Cord's". There's no need to constantly throw around comparisons of a non-FE11 unit with an FE11 unit just because they have the same class, and that's the reason why class-based archetypes are so unfrequently used in discussions (at least from what I've read, maybe I overlooked a place where they're used massively, although I doubt so?).
Mainly referencing units from FE1 because a lot of trends started there. Bord and Cord are really the first axe duo (Barst is excluded for some reason). I do agree that some could probably be used as early mage or the mercenary group leader. But at the same time, some push towards these "archetypes" . An example is Ricken. Even though he is the second mage received (third if you count Avatar) he uses wind magic and is more similar to Merric than Miriel is thus he is the "Merric" of the game. I just find it easier to reference the archetypes since they kind of have names and labels.
Character's Ages
in Fire Emblem Fates
Posted
Yeah this is true. Sorry. Will edit. But could they both be 20 at the same time?