ATNAK
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It sound like your entire reasoning hinge on Arion having no idea about Loptyr, but honestly I couldn't see how that would be possible. The empire is basically called Loptyr empire now, the sect is in so much power their dark bishops hold official positions all over the continent, there's even one in Thracia! Dark bishop Judah is a boss in Thracia map, we fought him. Everybody and their grandma are calling the stolen children as sacrifice for the Dark God, like the empire couldn't be more obvious about being evil if they tried. Arion had to be beyond stupid to miss this fact.
So following that, saying that Arion is continuing the fight for the people by fighting for the empire doesn't work. Even the villages on this chapter are happy when the liberation army took out the Empire reinforcement and they are uneasy about the whole dark mage ruling Grutia business too. The people don't want to fight this war, and considering how blatantly evil and how the empire hold Thracia in zero regard, hoping that the empire would give a silver of care toward Thracia is beyond logic, reason and emotional instinct. The empire just don't care and all Thracian know that.
So if you want to say Arion is running purely on emotions? The empire is never the answer. In fact after reading the script again, there's more support from the game on the "Arion is just being a stubborn man with warrior pride that rather die a warrior's death" than anything you have mentioned.
SpoilerConquering Grutia
Celice:
“Levin, does Areone still intend to fight?”Levin:
“We’ve sent several messengers calling for a truce already, but he won’t listen. I guess the pride of being a Dragon Knight leaves no allowances for conceding in battle. I truly believed Areone of Thracia would have been a more reasonable man… Celice, you know we can’t turn around now. We MUST engage this final battle.”Celice:
“Grr… Why!? Why must Areone be so stubborn about this?”SpoilerHannibal with Altenna
Hannibal:
“Princess Altenna, they briefed me on all you’ve been through. Accept my deepest sympathy.”Altenna:
“General Hannibal… so you’ve sided with the liberation army as well, have you… Well, I’m relieved. I couldn’t stand opposing you as well.”Hannibal:
“And what has become of Prince Areone?”Altenna:
“My bro… er… Areone won’t listen to me. Perhaps he’ll listen to you, General.”Hannibal:
“If you had no luck with him, I can’t imagine he’d listen to anyone. I’d gather Prince Areone intends to face death as a warrior. It’s out of our hands now.”Altenna:
“But General…”Hannibal:
“I know how you feel, but some men will yield to nothing when confronted with adversity. The prince probably didn’t want to appear weak in your presence. You must respect his wish, Your Highness.”We could say it's just the liberation army's guess of course, but it's noteworthy that this is the only explanation for Arion's motivation the game gave us. With the fact that Trabant got to talk for himself in mind, it make more sense to say that if the game want us to think differently it would make a point to show us differently.
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1 hour ago, stevenpaul256 said:
I'd argue that it is, in fact, shown in the game, just its implied rather than being explicit, and is quite vague, which is not necessarily a bad thing. The game doesn't specifically tell you Arion's thought process or reason for his decision, instead shows things such as Grutia being held by the Dark Bishop Judah, and how both Judah and Musar of the Empire are not fond of Thracia and quick to call it useless, how all of Travant's actions, while confusing, were often done out of concern and desire to improve the lives of the people of Thracia, and showing Arion's love and concern for Altena, and their relationships with Travant. After all, Arion is not a main character, so it is not really necessary to spell everything out so clearly and provide set-in-stone answers regarding things such as Arion's decision. I agree that it is likely that dialogue got cut that may have made this more clear, but it being a little vague, ambiguous, or up to interpretation is not a bad thing. Even more dense dialogue explaining every little nuance in the game like this would be overkill and would honestly probably do the story bad rather than add to it, not to mention the hardware limitations of the time.
But Trabant's actions have never been confusing and even at the end when he decide to basically commit suicide his motivation is what's up for debate not his actions. Precisely because despite not being the main character (or even the main villain!) he does spell out his motivation for us. We saw him discussing it with Arion on screen, it's not a designer's notes or left out on the cutting room floor stuff, it's right there in the game itself.
The only ambiguity is exactly what Trabant thought and feel as he fly off to his death when he was super gung-ho on fighting the liberation army before. Still by his actions, saying Arion is complying with Trabant's wish by refusing to even entertain the thought of a truce feel off. If Trabant is really all for siding with the empire (which he explicitly said before that he's not) and want to fight the liberation army to the best of his ability there's no reason why he should gave up his holy weapon. That make it seem like 1) Trabant literally don't care anymore and just want to die or 2) He's getting himself out of the equation so Thracia could reasonably call for a truce.
Either way, Trabant clearly left the decision up to Arion and well you brought up how lowly Thracia is regarded in the empire's eyes... that just make the case for Arion's decision is all logic look weaker here. Arion knows what the empire is like by now, there's no way he doesn't because we already see Trabant already talk to him about this. Sure Julius teleport in to save him for a bit, but there's no illusion here. Thracia has already lost.
52 minutes ago, Jotari said:Also Arione very likely does know about the Child Hunts, as they're the whole reason Tara rebelled and Tara came under the control of Thraica. I can't recall if there's any suggestion Thracia suffered the child hunts themselves just yet though.
Well we does see Corple as a victim in the child hunt in FE5, so that's where my assumption came from. Even with only FE4 info though, I thought it's only reasonable for Thracia to get no special treatment or else there would be a mad scramble to seek refuge in Thracia from parents with kids/the plot would have make a big deal about it because everywhere else within the empire reach all suffer the child hunts.
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14 hours ago, stevenpaul256 said:
To me, Arion's decision as well as how his father's final words impacted it seemed rather clear. Nevertheless, I do see where the confusion has arisen from. Allow me to explain what I believe on this matter.
Arion, in the moments from when the Liberation Army first began advancing on Thracia to when King Travant fell in battle, was met a multitude of decisions to make. Most important of these was the decision of what to do regarding the future of Thracia.
Arion's options were:╭─━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━─╮
1) Join or ally with the Liberation Army, and effectively call a truce with Manster District
- Siding with the Liberation Army (and Altena, who he loved) would result in Thracia becoming an enemy to the Grannvalian Empire, and if the Liberation Army were to win against the Empire, Seliph would almost certainly take up most of the burden of restoring order. Leif would return to Leonster and conflict may continue between Manster and Thracia, despite the truce, with Seliph again almost certainly choosing to side with Leif and Manster. If the truce were upheld and conflict between Manster and Thracia subsided, then Thracia again would not be well off, and stuck barely surviving in the arid mountains of the southern end of the peninsula, unless they received a lot of foreign aid from Seliph and the Liberation Army's reconstruction and peace efforts, but relying on that would not be ideal.
Trabant:
“Everything rests on the unification of the peninsula. The fertile lands to the north hold the key to eliminating poverty within our kingdom. Areone, our ways have often been likened to that of hyenas… Yet our mercenary work for foreign lands has meant the kingdom’s survival. However… I’ve had enough. It’s time we move up in this world. Areone, the rivalry before us will determine the fate of Thracia.”
If the Liberation Army were to fail, Thracia would be severely punished by the Empire for choosing to support the Liberators. So, whether the Liberation Army succeeds or fails, Thracia will be worse off.
2) Abandon Thracia independently and join the Liberation Army
- Thracia is left without a king, at least until (if) Arion returns, which will obviously not be good for Thracia. No doubt it will not be long before the Empire discovers what Arion has done, at which point the Empire could, and likely would destroy or exercise total and cruel control over the already weak, leaderless Thracia to teach a lesson of what it means to support the Liberators. If the Liberators were to succeed, Arion would be left with a broken kingdom to rebuild, likely with help from the Liberators and Seliph. Afterwards, things would continue as in the first option. If the Liberators were to fall to the Empire, Arion would be killed and Thracia would be thrown into dissaray, likely becoming subject to much abuse from the Empire.
3) Do nothing and let the Liberation Army pass, calling a truce with both the Liberators and Manster District (so that the Liberation Army can be sure that Thracia will not attack them from behind as they advance into Miletos)
- This would be the same as the first option, except Thracia would have less favour with Liberation Army, putting them even worse off if the Liberators succeed, and Thracia would not be punished quite as severely by the Empire. Against, not a smart option in regards to Thracia and its people's prosperity or even survival.
4) Continue war with the Liberation Army
- If Thracia defeats the Liberation Army, then Thracia will undoubtedly be better off with the great bounty on the Liberators they'd receive and the increased support Thracia would receive from the Grannvalian Empire, and controlling the entire peninsula and taking over Manster would become an easy feat.
- If they fail to defeat the Liberation Army, but the Army is later defeated by the Empire, then Thracia will still be rewarded and in the Empire's favour because they still tried, at least. This is even shown in the game by Julius personally saving Arion from being killed by the Liberators, clearly a sign of Thracia in favour with the Empire, which is not something that would have happened had Thracia not resisted the Liberation Army.
- If Thracia fails to defeat the Liberation Army, and the Army later defeats the Empire, then Thracia will have had the Empire's support until the Empire was toppled. After which, while Thracia certainly will be punished for supporting the Empire, it would not be too severe a punishment as the goals of Seliph and the Liberation Army after defeating the Empire would be to return peace and order, not repeat the same creutly that met the world with Arvis' reign. Thracia would likely only have to pledge a pact of non-violence (or just less violence) and pay in work or money to help with reconstruction. Definitely not an ideal outcome for Thracia, yet still not the worst.╰─━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━─╯
I believe that looking at it this way makes Arion's decision much more understandable. Initially, he was considering calling for a truce, as seen in his conversation with Altena.Areone:
“Prince Leaf is waiting for you. Go to him.”Altenna:
“But what’s to become of us?”Areone:
“Altenna… this is our fate. And the sooner we resign ourselves to it the better.”Altenna:
“Areone, we can call for a truce! With King Trabant gone, there’s nothing stopping us! Besides, I’m not about to fight you!”Areone:
“If it weren’t for father’s parting words, I would… Just go, Altenna… now! Next time we meet shall be on the battlefield. But be ready… I won’t go easy on you!”Altenna:
“Areone…”A truce with Manster would been appealing, especially seeing as he had only just learned of Altena'a ties to Manster. He would not want to war with his sister and love, and he holds little against Manster and the Liberation Army anyway, so to fight rather than form a truce seemed foolish at first, when he was thinking more only of himself and Altena.
However, his father's final words incited him to think of his duty as a king, made him think of how his decisions would affect Thracia as a whole, rather than just himself and Altena.
Trabant:
“Here, I’m leaving this lance with you. Thracia is in your hands now.”Areone:
“Isn’t this the Gunguneel? Father, what’s the meaning of this? Don’t tell me you’re going into battle without it.”Trabant:
“Areone, I’ve grown tired. It’s me they’re after anyway. Do as you see fit after I’m gone, okay?”Areone:
“So you’re suggesting I call for a truce!? I will never, ever give in to them, father!”Trabant:
“Like I said, do as you see fit. I only ask that you see an end to the people’s suffering. Farewell, Areone!”Areone:
“Father…”He realised that calling for a truce would ultimately be detrimental to Thracia, and the best way for him to better his kingdom would be to continue to war with the Liberation Army.
┬┴┬┴┤┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈├┬┴┬┴
Going back to the options I mentioned earlier, the first would result in becoming dependent on other countries as Thracia's condition only worsens, or at best remains poor, if the Liberators succeed. Else, Thracia would be greatly punished by the Empire. Supporting the Liberation Army and/or calling for a truce with Manster hardly seems a fine choice for the fate of Thracia.
The second option would result in a similar but worse fate than the first option if the Liberation Army succeeds, but otherwise would result in the likely destruction of or cruel dominion over Thracia by the Empire. Against, not a smart option.
The third choice would result in the same as the first option, except Thracia would have less favour with Liberation Army, putting them even worse off if they succeed, and Thracia would not be punished quite as severely by the Empire. Again, terrible choice.
Finally, the fourth option would result in Thracia gaining support and money from the Empire and extending control over the verdant, fertile plains on Manster if they defeat the Liberation Army, or still be better off and in the Empire's favour should the Grannvale Empire defeat the Liberation Army later. If the Liberators succeed, then Thracia will not be well off, though their punishment would not be too severe. Overall, this option definitely seems the most appealing and practical in doing what will benefit the people of Thracia most. Despite this option distancing himself the most from Altena, Arion chooses to do so as it is the most beneficial for the people, as Travant's words make him realise.
· · ─────── ·?· ─────── · ·
So, to recap, Arion initially considered a truce, as it would allow him and Altena to remain close, and avoid conflict between them. However, a truce would benefit few others than themselves, and as Travant's final words reveal to Arion, he must choose what is best for the people of Thracia rather than himself. Following his father's advice, Arion chooses to do what he think will be best for Thracia, and continues to war with the Liberation Army, despite the distance it draws between himself and Altena.
While Arion's actions seem foolish, or even antagonistic, to Seliph, Altena, and the rest of the Liberation Army, as well as the player, Arion was actually being quite selfless and doing what is both expected and dutiful of a king, and given the position he was in, I believe that Arion made the more difficult choice. Whether or not it was the "right" choice is all up to personal interpretation and opinion.
There's one problem with this interpretation though, Thracia is never better off under the Empire's rule. Thracia is not exempted from the child hunts and the only reason why Manster isn't already under Thracia control in Gen 2 is because the Empire just move in and took over (when Trabant already succeed in offing Cuan and everything!).
If the empire won, there would still be child hunts in Thracia and I am sure Thracia still wouldn't get their hands on Manster anyway (we are talking about an evil empire run by a human hating dragon after all). So with that in mind, even an uneasy truce with Manster would still be an improvement for Thracian people and it's not like the new emperor couldn't force a fair trade agreement that would solve Thracia's starvation problem (even if the solution is hardly permanent and Manster could still force outrageous tariffs on Thracia later down the line just like what started off the civil war to begin with)
Thracia always have it bad, but siding with the evil empire isn't going to change that.
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But considering how FE5 really doesn't give a damn about being canon compliant with FE4 wouldn't that render anything you would consider as evidence from FE5 moot?
Combined with Kaga's words that just mean everything from FE5 isn't canon and are all just a dream possibility.
Then there's how Beo sword isn't explicitly a linage item either, so saying that any circumstantial evidences that could be glean from it is canon is definitely not true. It mean the theory doesn't pop out of thin air yeah, but that's still isn't the same as canon.
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My whole spiel about just because you like a theory doesn't make it true is honestly more about Lachesis than Nanna's parentage. Like my reply to SatsumaFSoysoy, I don't consider the idea of Delmud and Nanna having different fathers automatically slut shaming.
With Fin it's not about disrespect, there's a difference between a noble and the lord he is serving considering him a father because in the latter case Fin would find himself in a position where he might "usurp" Cuan's rightful place.
I must reiterate again that I have no problem with the idea of Fin being Nanna's biological father in FE5, but your argument for it have some holes. An absence of evidence is not an evidence of absence. Considering that the game writers definitely doesn't want to upset the fans by ruling out a popular fan preferred pairing like Fin x Lachesis, of course they wouldn't make it clear that Nanna is Fin's adoptive daughter. The best way to handle this is to let the player decided the pairing for themselves, and maybe even add some support for the popular vote while they are at it to please the fans.
And here's the biggest kicker, FE4 was released before FE5! And in FE4 the Fin as father convo only happen to reward his daughter with extra stats! He literally couldn't have a convo with Nanna if she isn't his daughter so no I don't see why she should have a convo to give her extra stats if she isn't already his daughter. Considering how Fin couldn't have a talk with his own son, I don't see why the writers would deem Fin and Nanna relationship important enough to write for when he isn't her dad.
Plus no, FE5 doesn't make Fury and Levin canon, FE4 already made that pairing canon! If we are going down that route, you basically undermine your own argument for Fin as Nanna's dad here since the family tree chart doesn't support that. Honestly, it's because Levin and Fury are already so canon to begin with that they had no problem straight up admitting that Sety is a prince in FE5 instead of leaving any wiggle room.
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Liking a theory is not the same as saying something is canon though. I have a lot of headcanons and theory I continue to enjoy even after canon totally kill all the possibility of them being true, but my love doesn't make any of them canon.
It's not about OTP forever either since all Gen 1 pairings are doomed in canon no matter what, and whether the pairing is Beo x Lachesis or Fin x Lachesis neither ships end well. As you said these characters are honestly not that developed and most of them end up not really doing anything other than play the part the plot put them through, which mean the whole affair thing only exist because scandal appeal and does not really happened. You could enjoy the theory as much as you please, but that doesn't make the theory canon.
I just think it's really important to respect source material even if we don't like it or feel it should be fix one way or another. After all, canon is about facts, about the stuff that the fandom has experienced and like that and that's what everyone had in common. It's not like we couldn't play around with any ideas we like regardless anyway.
As for the whole Fin as Nanna's biological dad thing, I am not personally opposed to the idea but comparing Nanna's situation to Leif honestly weaken that argument. Because it's not about how Fin is just a knight while Leif and Nanna are both nobles. Fin wouldn't give a single damn if Nanna replace her dad with him in her heart and let the whole world know it (after all she's not his liege), but that sure as hell would never be the case with Leif.
Fin has repeatedly shown and reiterate that his entire identity is about being a good, proper knight that serve Cuan. There's zero chance Fin would ever let Leif forget (or at least shown) he forget that he is Cuan's son first and foremost. In FE5 Fin frequently act subservience to Leif and make it extremely clear that their relationship is of a knight serving his liege. Fin most likely does treat Nanna like his daughter but Leif? NO WAY. If Leif ever call Fin "father" instead of like a father, Fin would have been filled with despair and a huge sense of failure. No we aren't supposed to even think for a fraction of a second that Fin is supposed to be seen as Leif's father instead of his servant.
Edit - That just sound like the ending suggest Fergus is Beo's son not the sword directly. The staff has explicit in story statement that said it's linage locked, while FE5 have lots of personal weapons that was user locked for gameplay reasons rather than have in-story justification that said only xyz linage could use them. For example - Leif's light sword, Nanna's earth sword and Fin's hero lance. All weapons that anybody could use in FE4 but was restricted to certain characters in FE5
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Wow you are right, my theory couldn't fly if Leif is dead and he could actually die! The fact that if you recruit Altenna and Leif died, the peninsula goes to her is what make my theory deader than dead. Well there goes my attempt at making Arion look better.
Since FE5 exist, I would say even Kaga agree with you that Leif's blood feud with the Thracians is a big missed opportunity. I'm not sure about the idea of a remake though, it's extremely likely they would mess things up instead of fixing anything.
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But the game never paint the situation as regrettable circumstances though. Arion is the only one saying that while everyone else keep consoling Altenna that Arion will come around eventually.
This is more into conjecture territory but I wouldn't say it's 100% a warrior's pride thing with Arion. Yes, his established motivation before he got stubborn is his love for his father and Altenna, but throughout all that Arion also share in Trabant's vision of a unified Thracia peninsula with Thracia as its head. Joining the liberation army does mean letting go of that vision (since as cousins Celice would naturally favor Leif). Of course as Altenna and Hannibal pointed out stopping the empire is more important so this reason isn't that reasonable.
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I mentioned slut shaming because there's a lot of posts on this topic that said Lachesis have an affair in canon and call her names...except it isn't canon and it isn't even an in game possibility.
Yes, the idea of Lachesis having Delmud with Beo and then having Nanna with Fin later on doesn't have anything to do with slut shaming inherently. But a lot of people who support this idea doesn't see it as "moving on after Beo died", but that surely Lachesis must have an affair/cheat on Beo/have serious case of wandering eyes.
It doesn't have to be about slut shaming, but from the tone of the posts I have seen? Slut shaming is the general appeal.
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So I really want to reply to this post
But I do realize that would be necroposting, so I make an awkward new topic here.
I don't have any revolutionary idea to add, but I am really surprised nobody brought up the simplest possibility. He just wasn't listening to Trabant.
I am being serious! Trabant was pretty clear on telling Arion to do whatever he want but please take care of Thracia before basically going to die and Arion's instant response is "I will never surrender/call for a truce!". For all Arion said about understanding his dad to Altenna, Arion's instant response is to keep repeating how he would never surrender over and over it become his motivation when his dad basically engineer an ideal situation for said truce.
At this point I would say it's clear that it's not about fate or his dad or whatever Arion told himself is his motivation, in reality it's just his pride. Arion really doesn't want to surrender despite all the pros and cons or for whose sake. From how Arion talk of Trabant's last words, you will be forgiven for thinking Trabant told him to die fighting, but since we know what Trabant actually said we also know Arion had no good reason to fight.
Really from how Arion himself instantly pick up Trabant's last words as a suggestion for a truce and how he also instantly deny that course of action, it's clear to me that Arion isn't fighting for Trabant or Thracia or safety from the empire. Altenna is right, he's only fighting because he has a pride issue where surrender is unacceptable and literally rather die (which is straight up stupid when the liberation army is busy fighting Anti-Christ for the future of the continent meanwhile Arion is being a petulant brat who insist he doesn't lose because he never give up -_-)
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I actually played both FE4 and FE5 first before stumbling across the whole fandom controversy on Nanna's canon dad later... and this really get me wondering - how many people actually read the Beo & Lachesis chapter 5 talk and all the times Nanna called Fin father before hearing this rumor?
I know not many people played FE4 and FE5 so most of the opinions on this topic is purely from hearsay or that they just really love the scandal of an affair and slut shaming, so this rumor will never die even if we have official English canon support and statement disproving this theory/headcanon.
(Kinda like how Dragon Quest V has a rumor that one love interest would become an abused barmaid and her dad will die if she's not chosen, but no such thing actually ever happen. Still that rumor is like the only thing people who barely heard of the game know about it)
Before hearing about the rumor (and honestly after), I don't see anything that suggest Lachesis have any feelings for Fin at all. Sure Beo brought Fin up, but it's always strike me more as a "well we know a guy in Lenster, so you could go there to look for Ares" than anything else. And yes I am sure Beo is actually talking about Eldigan/Eltshan instead of Fin. Like in Heroes, the one trait that Lachesis was allowed to have to defined her is having a crush on her brother. Why wouldn't this talk be about her brother??? Why shouldn't Lachesis go to Lenster when her brother's son with his major holy blood is there?
Then in FE5, sure the game make Fin and Lachesis a couple, but even then I always thought Nanna is Beo's daughter and Fin is like her stepdad. And the debate on Beo sword is just weird. Fergus and Delmud are both Freeknights, so what if they got a special class locked sword named after a Gen 1 Freeknight? Why is a non holy weapon being used to gauge parentage anyway???
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I brought this up in the complete narrative topic. If Fates ever tried to muddy the waters of the war between the two kingdoms, then it didn't really do a good job.
To give contrast, in the Judgral games it was noted that Manster had tariffs on crops sent to Thracia. It was also noted that Manster nobles were abusing the tariff system. It was also noted that Quan was a pain to his allies, ordered border raids, and ultimately continued the bloodshed.
Hoshido VS Nohr? Fates didn't really do a good job (if at all) presenting Hoshido with the issues pre-Meiji Japan had that could have served to muddy the waters. One possible example of this is having Hoshidan oppression of a minority like the Christians. Another one is having Hoshido be expansionist and its troops maiming civilians like the Japanese in Korea.
Instead, you have Mikoto coming out of the story shining bright (or at least brighter than Garon). Aqua sings the praises of Hoshido to the point she and Corrin talk like fighting that kingdom in particular is this great sin. Meanwhile Nohrian troops do what are apparently war crimes and Iago, Ganz, with Fake Garon for last are puppy kickers while the actual Garon is underexplored. Counting playable units Nohr has more characters who, if not evil, are still shown as questionable at best (like Zero or Charlotte).
Good Lord, I thought I was the only one who considered this black/white morality business an issue! Thank you so much for posting this.
This game's story problems are so bad, it made Awakening look good in comparison. Seriously, Awakening story is also problematic, but ultimately salvageable compared to what we got with Fates. I always considered Fire Emblem to be a tactical RPG with war stories which every games except Fates managed to deliver to varying degrees.
You're right, in this game the world was not even built on cardboards, there were barely any substances to anything at all. At most Nohr is considered a gray area while Hoshido is perfect and totally an innocent victim, the writing show such obvious bias to the point of fetish. It's not even a Japan vs Europe thing, since real Japan and its history is hardly shining and perfect. Hoshido does not even qualify as a fantasy of feudal Japan... There is nothing peacefully loving about infighting among various warlords.
Basically, Hoshido is supposed to be bountiful in natural resources with 'nothing but good natured' people. A sterilized mockery of peace loving nation whose goodness stemmed from word of God and lack of sins rather than the presence of its virtues. And definitely not Japan expy. Hoshido the nation is so far apart from realism its unrelatable to me.
PS. Japanese culture is fascinating to me. It's unique brand of life is something I really like and value, so while I don't think I qualify as a Japanophile...the notion that Hoshido is comparable to Japan still feel insulting. Japan has its faults, but the virtues it does possess more than make up for it.
Saying they failed at muddying the war is assuming they attempted to. Aside from showing you the Nohrian siblings who Kamui's grown attached to, I don't think their heygoal was to humanize the Nohrian army. Even the goal of the Nohr route is to fix Nohr, not fight Hoshido. I think making the countries as black and white morality as they are serves the theme of the games better than dirtying Hoshido would have.
Personally I think making things black and white actually weaken the theme of choice. Plus, I feel that the Nohr army is human enough. Not to say that Hoshido should be dirty to make things even, but white vs grey is still uneven compared to different shades of grey. Really NOT going all Hoshido is picture perfect should be good enough.
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Please, could someone translate Ronku x Olivia? Pegasus Knight already has the full script and everything. I tried google translate, but the only thing I could understand is that they talk about Basilio. A lot.
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I thought Sumia is considered the 'canon' wife because she slap Krom and there're times when other characters tease them or something
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Sorry for the late reply. The reason I need to use valkyrie staff is that if I want the stats up for Lachesis without pairing her with Beowulf, I need to kill him off. Of course in a normal run I wouldn't care, but nobody can die in a ranked run. As for the whole holsety on a horse thing, I believe having Arthur kill Ishtor is going to save me a lot of turns as opposed to waiting for Shanan to get through the desert.
So let's recap Midir x Aideen and Holyn x Brigid are okay. Ira should be paired with Noish (wouldn't that be hard?). Sylvia should go with Lex for those kids really need elite. Beowulf x Lachesis is really good, but valkyrie staff aside it's possible to pair her with other people (personal bias: I don't really like Beowulf), and I have no idea who should have Levin's babies.
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From what I understand, easy to acquire pairings are optimal for ranked run, but one should not neglect performance as well. I just can't decide which set of pairings would be better for this purpose.
Set A
Midir x Aideen, Lex x Ira, Beowulf x Lachesis, Claude x Sylvia, Levin x Fury, Azel x Tiltyu, Holyn x Brigid
Pro: Easy to pair, don't need to use the valkyrie staff
Con: No holsety on a horse, have to pair Lachesis with Beowulf
Set B
Aideen, Ira and Brigid pairings are the same, but with Azel x Lachesis, Alec x Sylvia, Claude x Fury, and Levin x Tiltyu
Pro: Holsety on a horse, great Nanna, don't have to pair Beowulf
Con: Harder to pair, need to use valkyrie staff
Any suggestions?
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If it's not too much trouble, Lachesis should be the one to get the Elite ring. After all, she's a lot more useful as a Master Knight and being mounted made talking to Eltshan a breeze.
Or you could give the ring to Fin, since he's going to leave soon and would reappear in Second Gen. Seriously, Fin hardly seem to get any exp in second gen, so it's best to promote him before he leave. Do be very careful and made sure you made Fin sold the ring when he's done with it. I made the mistake of allowing Fin to leave with the ring once and have to replay the whole chapter for that oversight. Not fun.
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I have nothing against Lex/Tiltyu really, but a lot of people said that the bad magic stat outweigh the ambush and wrath. The RNG Goddess is not very fond of me so I'm not sure Lex/Tiltyu would work out. So Azel has nothing important that Claude couldn't offer? It's decided, I will just stick to the good old bread and butter, Levin/Tiltyu and Claude/Fury.
It would be nicer if Amid has Pursuit instead of Continue. Then when he promotes you realize his class skill is Continue, which pretty much gives you a finger.
Oh there's other options. Others brought up Lex and Arden for Wrath + Ambush, but you might want to try Fin as well for Pursuit + Wrath + Prayer. You won't go first on enemy phase, but at least you're protected at low HP.
I didn't know you tried it, so that's why I suggested it.
It's not so bad if you wait at the end of the chapter until turn 50 with those two stuck together. There's other options too. You may want to try Alec or Beowulf.
Oh my, Amid's skill set sound terrible. I'm sorry Linda that I have to ditch you, but I don't think I should try my luck with your brother.
Waiting that long for the bargain skill that I never need before sound like too much trouble for me. Alec sound pretty good through, I'll definitely put it on my next to do list.
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Never used or uncommon?
Aideen x Claude (Passes down Fortify and Rescue in Chapter 6 and can let Rana promote in 7 if you spam enough)
Never used. I won't mind doing some pairings again though. Better try to be on the safe side.
Rana seem just fine with a physical weapon user for a dad to me.
Does having Claude as her dad made her so awesome, that it wouldn't matter that we has to benched Lester?
Tiltyu : Probably Levin. I'd rather have Holsety!Arthur and a possible Tornado!Tinny than Linda and Amid, the latter which I find a bit problematic if you don't pair Tiltyu.
Brigid : Not a bad option, but you might want to try Holyn. He can give a Hero Sword to Patty along with Moonlight. Faval is pretty hard to screw up, so in this case you really want to choose the better dad for Patty. Dew's not a bad option for Icheval at half price.
Thank you very for your comment! But really, is Amid that's much of a dead weight? I'm sure he's nothing compared to Levin!Arthur but Linda look so good...
If I'm going to pair Levin with Fury, I need to know how bad the replacement kids are going to be.
I'm glad to know that Lex wouldn't be too bad. Thanks for the Holyn suggestion, but I already tried that. Hero sword for Patty is excellent but Moonlight is not as useful as I hoped it would be. It's still a pretty good though. As for Dew, isn't their love growth rate made this the hardest pairing to make?
Oh god, another one of these... Well, here's my handy advice once again. Note that most of these pairings are idiot-proof
I realize that hence the topic title.
I'm just glad that people are still willing to reply.Lachesis: Fin and Beowulf are generally good choices. As much as I despise Beowulf, Charge really helps out. Alec's another option, similar to Fin. Lex works nicely if you've got the pursuit ring free.
Thank you for your suggestion, and this is really off topic but I don't like Beowulf either. Am I the only one who hire him for those stats up before killing him off?
I realize now that I should be more through at the beginning. Oh well.
So far it looks like Noish is better than Holyn for Arya, no problem with Midir and Aideen, Fin might be better than Beowulf, Laylea and Sharlow could still beat Leen and Corple with Holyn/Azel as their dads, and Lex and Brigid wouldn't screw me over.
I'm still undecided about Fury and Tiltyu. Levin made both Sety and Fee awesome, and I'm really interested in Linda. Too bad, I might have to ditch that plan if Amid suck too much. And I never seen anyone talk about this before, but really is Claude better for Fury than Azel?
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So recently I'm getting back to FE4 and for this replay I want to try some pairings I never used.
Still, I don't want to put myself through torture when I'm playing a game. How do my chosen combinations look?
Arya: Noish or Holyn
Aideen: Midir (I paired her with both Midir and Jamka before, still pursuit made the game easier)
Lachesis: Fin (Tried both Azel and Beowulf)
Sylvia: Holyn or Azel or Death
Fury: Levin or Claude or Azel
Tiltyu: Levin or Death (I already paired her with Azel and Levin. Linda look pretty good, have any tried using her before?)
Brigid: Lex
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If you really need to pair Dew up with someone... As previouly stated you could pair Dew with Arya whose children will actually make good use of Sol. Sure, Astra and Sol can't activate at the same time, but that's not nescessary a bad thing.
Or you could also pair him with Briggid. Sure, Sol do absolutely nothing for Patty, but Faval sure could use bargain skill since holy weapons are so expensive to repair. Plus, Dew could pass down swords.
The Life Span of a Loptyr Victim
in NES and SNES Era
Posted
Maybe it's those cases where the evil spirit give the host absolute powers and immunity against everything else, but because human body isn't good enough to withstand so much power so the host were basically dying from the inside out the whole time anyway?
I know Kaga basically said "this is magic, it's all random okay?!" but the whole "incest mean a lot of major blood carriers running around" is a solid mechanic and common knowledge... I feel like it's very likely the old Loptyr imperial family had a lot of babies and incest arranged marriages.