CappnRob

All of this tbh. Bartre has good supports, is a fun and funny character, and honestly has really good growths (if somewhat undermined by his poor bases). 50% str, 40% speed and 30% def (especially that defense in FE7!) are fairly good growths. Now yes he can get easily RNG boned, but he can also become extremely well rounded and versatile as well. Also you need him to recruit Karla who while functionally useless is a total babe :V

I personally really don't like the idea of seeing your exact amount of love points. It makes the love system feel artificial (which I guess it is anyway but this moreso) because its giving a quantitative value to the character's emotions. Idk, it just feels weird? Now what I WOULD like to enhance the love point system is being able to see your feelings for characters BESIDES the one you like the most. It's perfectly possible for people irl to love more than one person or be in love with more than one person at a time or to have unrequited love with someone and the same holds true in FE4 - heck my last playthrough I thought I had a Claude/Sylvia pairing in the bag because the fortune teller told me Claude loved Sylvia, but I neglected to realize Alec also loved Sylvia and had a minor lead over Claude! Perhaps creating a new status screen where you can track character's general affections for one another would work. Maybe colored bars or something, IDK (yes I realize this flies in the face of what I just said but EH). That way you can tell not only who likes who the most currently, but who they like second best and third and so on and so forth. Would probably be good for avoiding accidental Finn pairings with Bridget too lol.

big_lebowski_opinion.gif Heaven forbid people like a thing you don't like! P E R S O N A L L Y I felt it added an extra layer of strategy for me because indoor maps couldn't just be bum rushed with cavalry, thus making things more challenging regarding stopping thieves and the like. Moreover it allows your mounted units to avoid horsekiller lances if you can anticipate them, and in the context of FE3 itself where every class can only use one weapon, it allowed your otherwise lance-locked cavalry units to use swords - which are lighter than lances and have more specialization among them (Lady Sword, Master Sword, Armorkiller, Killing Edge (no killer lances in Book 1 iirc), etc).

ooooh well pft not that I ever considered killing them after the fact but yeah

I find it interesting that post-Radiant Dawn character growths are now SEPARATE from class growths and the two are added together to get the final growth rates, and thus promotions can alter growth rates to a degree (Wrys loses 5% magic defense for example but gains slightly more magic in FE11).

wow really all this time i was told killing sheema's followers will prevent you from recruiting her in FE3

Maaan there's a lot in this thread I disagree with lol. Not gonna list every single instance as that'd take forever and a half, but personally? Echoes did a GREAT job at preserving the original mechanics of Gaiden while dusting off and smoothing the janky bits, and I LOVED that about it. A Genealogy remake HAS to do the same for me to approve of it. No giant maps, no lover system, no insane holy blood, etc? Then no sell for me. This also extends to the pawn shop, and other such unique takes FE4 has on standardized mechanics. They are FINE in FE4 because FE4 is BUILT around them - you're mean to plan your actions ahead of time, loadout characters accordingly, then commit to it. If you could trade all nilly willy then the strategy of the game is lost. That's how FE4 is. It isn't SUPPOSED to be like other FEs, just like Gaiden wasn't either. Anyway, I made a thread myself some months ago listing the tweaks I would like to see, you can read that right here! I also remarked in another thread how to reconcile Geneaology's lover point system with modern supports, you can read that right here. Stuff not mentioned: EXPANDED STORY. This kind of ties in with wanting Supports, but holy balls I absolutely adored how Echoes embellished on Gaiden's story and even refitted some of its battles with named enemies to expand on the narrative greatly, and not just limiting it to the main character and some NPCs. Cliff/Tobin/Gray all get really involved with stuff, Clive and Lukas are also super involved too. Celica has Saber ascending to importance alongside Mae and Boey - plus all the villages you visit and shrines have tons of just random chances to talk to your party members and learn more about them, to say nothing of all the little details like characters remarking on each other's performances in a battle, their quips during crits or after a battle, memory prisms and the prequel DLC material. All of this has set a STANDARD imo for future remakes and Genealogy is a MUCH more narrative heavy story than Gaiden was, and a lot of it was locked behind developer notes, obscure or dummied out conversations, or just outright not written in until Thracia 776. The Judgral story is a great one, but its very piecemeal and "assembly required", and a remake MUST remedy that and provide the cohesive narrative we've all been wanting.

Personally I think the Lover System should stay as is. Yes, all you have to go off of are vague statements, but those statements are enough. "On your mind" is low rank, "Fond" is mid rank, "Love" is high rank, and "married" is the done deal. H O W E V E R I still want supports. But supports should either have no effect on love points at all, or SUPPLEMENT them. For example, if Ayra and Lex get a C support, that can provide a little boost to their love points. Heck, even let them get an A support - but that support does not guarantee a match up. It can surely help, but that's it. Writing supports more platonically can help here as to avoid stacking high supports and only getting one lover in the end. Also I think a good addition could be when love points reach 500, the characters in love should have to trigger a conversation with each other, maybe a special dialogue called a "Confession", where they admit their love for one another. This can give players more control over who pairs with what without undermining the original mechanics. Special love point conversations should also stay (or at least integrated into support convos. Alec and Sylvia's goofy meeting does feel like a C support...). As for same sex pairings, I'm not so hot on them JUST to be having them to "be more progressive". That's a bad mindset to go about writing something, and in the case of Leon in Echoes, he was essentially a blank slate to add a character too - most FE4 characters are much more developed than FE2 ones were (though not significantly so). If homosexuality is added to certain characters, I'd want it to be something that can bring more TO that character. Leon's love for Valbar is one of my favorite things in Echoes, because it feels natural and adds depth to both characters (as its unrequited on Valbar's end). Most characters, G1 and G2 alike, have heterosexual leanings and its best to avoid the tripe "everyone is bi" writing.

So I was reading on FE Wiki about Gaiden characters (because I've finally gotten my first contemporary FE in Echoes and was reading up on differences), and I noticed it said Jesse had higher than average growths for Gaiden: 190% vs the 150% of almost everyone else. This got me wondering, has anyone catalogued the average growth rates per game somewhere?

tfw you've been out of the game loop for so long all these features seem "wait this old FE now?" lol Dismounting INCLUDING forcing it for Indoor sections/chapters. Spice up those mounted units yo. Healer Falcon Knights (aka Judgral flavor/Elincia) Four space dancers The nature-light-dark triangle. I'd be ok with the anima triangle exisitng within the nature sphere mind, but bring back GBA Light and Dark reeeee BIG ASS JUDGRAL MAPS Canto after attacking Rescue and CAPTURING

Isn't there a FE3 map like this? The one you recruit Sheema - all of her soldiers are level 1 scrubs mixed in with higher level enemies and you can't recruit Sheema if you kill any of them. And yeah, FE9 used bonus experience for similar ideas: the low level vigilantes, the laguz bandits (although trying to not kill them AND get the treasure is basically impossible). Either way, war crimes are distinctly a 20th century notion. I know this thread is joking, but its only fairly recently we've created rules for who we can and can not kill legally in a battle and how or how not it can be done.

Midir was probably low on the old list because he really isn't THAT good statistically, but I think this go around his utilitarian purposes were more closely examined (as a dad namely). Lex is vice versa, dude's got great growths but isn't that useful until he gets his brave axe and can't pass things down to any of his kids. Stuff like that. This was a fun thread though, almost four months in action. It was a joy to be a part of! Maybe I'll whip out some closing thoughts myself later on.

Soooo..... someone gonna average up the leftover scores and see how kids and subs fared? :V

So did Armored Trooper VOTOMS!

Kinda sad that science fiction game never happened. FIRE EMBLEM. IN. SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE.

Lene is a dancer with inheritance and that's grand. She comes earlier than her mother did, and is generally more useful (though no more duable) than Sylvia was. Parentage means little to her unless you like fucking around with a dancer that can fight (but why would you do that?), she's essentially your only choice for the Knight Ring and a top contender for the leg ring. She has a nice characterization too, which is always a plus. Really what makes Lene shine is just that G2 allows for far more crazy tactics than G1 (see: taking out Edda without fighting anyone), and her off-the-boat inheritance means she doesn't have investment problems like Sylvia did. I found myself using her a lot more than her mother, 8/10 because she's still made of tissue paper and really can't dodge that well despite it all. Corpul is.... ehhhhhh. Unless his father is Claude he's going to be benchwarming. Braggi blood means he can always use the best staves and with Claude he can inherit the Reserve and Valkyrie staff for ez level ups, but.... ehhhh. He turns out statistically good but getting him there blows. The rescueable children in Chapter 10 help a lot at least, and no matter who his dad is he can help with the Wall of Edda. You also need him to recruit Hannibal but some people might consider that a detriment ayyyy. 5/10, statistically good with a frustrating use curve. Laeyla is a dancer and that's useful but unlike Lene she can't inherit things which puts her at a bit of a disadvantage financially, (and possibly knight ring less if you don't drop it onto Celice or whatever). Her str growth is stupidly high for reasons I do not know, but the barrier sword is super nice. 7/10 for bad money problems but still being a dancer in G2. Sharlow.... exists? Yeah he has elite, but he's still held back but all of Corpul's flaws and can't inherit things. He gets berserk which basically exists for him to sell to actually afford things, and you can also give him the Chapter 10 children for free levels too. His magic defense lacks Braggi blood to help with that, so he may not be soo good on the wall of Edda. Also needed to recruit Hannibal, hue. 4/10, he's not that much worse than Corpul though he can outshine him in some ways depending on parentage.

Don't resurrect Sylvia until Levin is paired with Tiltyu. Once Levin has a lover, Sylvia will lose all her love points with him. Had to do a similar thing my last run, only Sylvia fell in love with Alec so I had to bump him off for the early part of Door to Destiny until she fell in love with Claude (I think Alec had at most a 50 point advantage over Claude, it was really close :T) then resurrect Alec.

You know, I suddenly realize this, but aside from like.... the two encounters with the Beigeritter in G1 and G2, there's almost never any enemy archers encountered in FE4. Verdane has some in the prologue, I think you see like 3 per castle in Augustria, there's Liza's army in chapter 7 which has like 4 maybe and Muhammed's armor unit has like 4 as well. Huh.

Faval is good but inflexible which I think is what hurts him so much. Lacking a mount and coming late with the most lackluster holy weapon (though still a very good weapon in general) and being unable to counterattack most foes on enemy phase severely limits his usefulness. He's a single shot missile launcher that obliterates anything he hits and not much else.

If everyone had equally viable movement then why even have different movement values for characters at all? I play FE4 casually as hell and Arden is literally the only foot unit who can't keep up, and its a lot more than just being foot locked causing that (even then, he at least facetanks axedudes well for 2 chapters).

To note FE4 is perfectly playable with footies, I do it all the time. You have to slow your cavalry down some (except in cases where they need to rush to reach something in time), but there's other ways to use their high mobility besides "running ahead of everyone". i tend to favor bringing them close slowly and using their extra movement to hit and run with their remove ability tbh.

There's plenty of other ways to remedy Horse Emblem without taking away what is considered by many a defining trait of FE4. Rebalance stat caps and weapon access, improve skills for them, bring rescue into the mix so mounted characters can carry them around, etc.

Made a thread for this myself about a month or so ago, just gonna link it here to list all the stuff I'd like lol.

shhh Karel doesn't count he has 1 level up reeee has anyone ever seen Karel's 10% proc for a +3 HP up?

Patty is extremely father-dependent and none of her dads are perfectly ideal for her. Holyn can't pass down pursuit but does give Moonlight Sword (though its usefulness on Patty is debatable) and gives B rank swords which allows her to use the hero sword. Dew is a solid choice but she'll be pursuitless until promotion and G2 is less merciful to thieves than G1 was. Jamuka makes her strong I guess? But no inheritence. In general Patty is going to be slow, too, which is a pain for a thief (Dew, Midir and Levin are the only dads who get her seed higher than 35%). Still, being a thief is useful, and she pairs quick with Shanan and he's an arena king so the wealth is easy to spread. Still though, she's hard to keep up with and can easily fall behind, so she gets a 6/10 for me. Faval though is pretty great. He's footloked which is a bit lame and comes at a kinda low level, but he has the Ichival. Yes, its not as good as the other divine weapons, but a 30+10+str damage ranged weapon is still A LOT OF DAMAGE. Faval obliterates anything he attacks, and that combat reliability counts for something. Given he derives his growths from his mom instead of his dad and his class ensures he has pursuit at least, parentage is mostly a matter of flavor for Faval. Holyn helps overcome his skill deficit (and give him the single largest HP growth in the franchise), Jamuka lets him fire more of those goddamn arrows than he really needs (Continue and Duel are overkill with the Ichival tbh), Dew lets him repair it for cheap, you really can't go wrong with his dads. And the Ichival? Look, +10 speed/Str only is lame compared to the obscenity of say Tyrfing or Mystletainn, especially with the 13 weight, but an effectively 3 weight bow that does 40 damage at base is still a goddamn good bow. He tears Thracia's dragon knights apart, and while Travant and Orion might have awareness to save them from the crits, the huge damage output still helps a lot. 7/10, he's only got one job but he does it very well. Daisy is.... okish. She's faster than Patty will ever be short of having Levin as her dad, but her starting HP is abyssmal and her strength will basically never improve. She lacks Dew's bargain, but prayer is nice for cheesing the arena with at least. Like Patty she pairs fast with Shanan so he can be her sugar daddy for spreading the wealth around, and other than that.... not much else to say. Thief Fighter has great promo gains but good luck ever getting Daisy near 20 to use it :Y 5/10 because her utility is still valuable and Patty isn't THAT much better in a straight fight until she promotes (though Patty can probably realistically reach that). Asaello though.... is pretty bad. Solid bases save for his AWFUL luck (though he has a great growth in it), his growths are pretty garbage (10% skill, 20% speed?? no Holy Blood to compensate either!) and Sniper promo gains aren't the best (Str +5 is the best but Str is Asaello's one good growth besides HP). He does have pursuit due to his class so he can double at least and with the brave bow that's quadruple, so he isn't useless... but really, Dimna is better. He comes earlier, has a horse, betterish growths where it matters, and also has pursuit. Asaello is redundant at best. 1/10, his silver bow is nice.