Prims

As for Weapons I'm not really feeling it as much now that it looks like he's trying to direct game state more based on his own opinions even though they feel sort of contrary to thread atmosphere. He's still a weird slot but I think I'd sooner lynch Elie over him even.

This referring to Refa's questioning of Cam, not the read placement itself.

@Refa tbh some of your reads strike me as padding or disconnected: - Putting Cam down as an actual scumread comes off purely as a mafia 101 "he is not voting" thing which is like, yeah I want Cam to vote too, but when you've never had anything bad to say about his content itself it feels superficial given personally I've been under the impression Cam hasn't been voting in part due to irl circumstances (drunk and forgot first time, then still behind on thread the next). It's like the easiest prod you could make in the current gamestate and in fact I had already questioned Cam so it's almost redundant or something. (Though Cam is purely a ? read for me.) - The reads list doesn't include every player so I have to conclude putting a player in null must be for a specific reason, in which case why is Elie there? I have the impression Elie isn't a common suspect so much as people didn't really like his one post and are waiting for more. But you doesn't really have anything unique to add about him either. This remark feels weird? Like it's some kind of obligatory read made out of a perception of game state that doesn't seem accurate to me. - This is lesser but I'm curious how you basically following Shinori on the Rapier read relates to your opinion of Shinori, if at all. Gamestate is weird right now because Makaze feels like a near-guaranteed consolidation lynch because way more people consider him their secondary read over Bluedoom or Weapons. At the same time, two of the other people voting him are slots I haven't felt great about recently. I don't oppose an Elie wagon, it's just like, who actually wants to lynch the single post lurker right now? I don't know. I was heavily considering returning for the sake of switching to Refa before going to bed but then realized I misinterpreted something in their Cam read which made me feel less confident about my case, so I'm going to sleep on it.

If there's a specific weird thing from SB I can pinpoint it's that I can't follow the progression of their Shinori read, if it changed from their back-and-forth with him, then why they removed him from their list and moved to Rapier. I think there is the possibility of scum not wanting to look like their content ran dry, but there is also the indication their read on Shinori just changed and they never explained it? (to my knowledge) Also odd that I never saw them dropping Shinori addressed when Rapier's thoughts on Shinori are the crux of their Rapier vote. Been thinking about mafia too much so I'll try to cut it here for the night.

Though I worded this poorly because it generally happens in the opposite order.

A way to put it is that when he's dialoguing with people in his PoE who are going after him he responds as if their intentions are pure and he needs to appease them. I would expect town to be more guarded in that situation?

I hate using quotes now, but what stuck out to me to solidify this impression was that he is ambivalent about me in a way where he doesn't want a repeat of arguments from past games, because from my point of view my interactions with him in this game haven't been the same as in previous games? For one I wasn't really suspicious of him until he said that me not starting conflict with him was tilting, which was oddly self-conscious on his part. Like, there is this weird push-and-pull where he acts conflict avoidant with people then is pinged when they don't start conflict with him (I've pointed out him doing this with BBM and Snike in my past posts). Also even though I'm in his PoE, his responses to me seem more focused on shaking me off. My read on this leans toward self-conscious scum, but I'm not sure if something happened to change his personality in the last however many years. I do admit it is difficult to tell where "Makaze the human being" and "Makaze the player with an alignment" begins and ends wrt responding to attacks on his play.

@BBM Makaze's PBPA is... mixed, I guess? The characterization of you as waffling and not stating actual reads is inaccurate IMO, I'm not sure if it's the result of playstyle clash causing us to interpret posts differently. I can understand the point of view about you treating Makaze's alignment as a foregone conclusion while voting me but I don't actually agree with it, I don't think Makaze's alignment would have been crucial to your read on me there, hence it not being brought up. I guess the back-and-forth with Makaze made me feel a bit better about him, but there is still a submissiveness to his posts that I can't shake off as feeling unnatural. Marth cut me explaining a similar issue, I think. @Bluedoom I don't think the obtrusiveness is out of range for town!Makaze but I think town!Makaze handles things more pro-actively in terms of figuring out what he thinks town is supposed to do. I'm increasingly worried about Refa as I realize their vote has been parked all game on somebody I think is town and I can't remember much of anything else they've done, despite my initial read on them being town. Not sure if this is the result of them being busy or what. I'm feeling tired and haven't really made a comprehensive case in my head but I would be willing to vote them. @Snike j00 has read tonally town to me, mostly in her handling of Makaze seeming like a genuine evolving response to a weird player. If there's a case to be made on her I'll consider it but looking in her direction isn't a conclusion I'd come to naturally. I need another post from Cam to figure out where I land on him, I think. I can't tell if the lack of vote is stalling or lack of confidence or just being inebriated/behind while posting or what. Weapons keeps mischaracterizing my vote on Snike which is weird. The crux of it wasn't just "Snike voted Bluedoom" but "I thought that Snike's suspicions on you and me looked stronger and he was going for the easier target for reasons I don't understand". Comparing Snike to other people who made catch-up posts around the same time doesn't make sense to me because... I didn't vote Snike for making a catch-up post? Feels like I'm waiting on a bunch of people (Percy, Refa, Elie, maybe more from Rapier, votes from Cam and Marth). I don't really want to lynch Snike anymore but if he turns out to be scum later I will still take credit for catching him D1 for the sake of my ego. I read Rapier's ISO and nothing stuck out to me as scummy. At worst his tone can be read as stilted and potentially over-explaining when voting Makaze early on, but I do think this is believable as coming from an enthusiastic townie with a specific personality. I do want to hear updated thoughts from him though. I have been really lazy about reading SB for whatever reason.

I guess that makes sense. I still think you are unengaged though. Putting it in terms of playing the game like a spectator does make it easier for me to see where you're coming from at least but in general my read is that you're not invested in who gets lynched; I guess you prefer Marth right now on PoE? You don't really defend your townreads (when Boron has been one of the main wagons today) or the wagons you "want to avoid eliminating" - what places Refa and Snike in that bucket for you?

Reading Weapons' post it seems OK, kind of stream-of-conscious rambly which is what I'd expect his approach to be as either alignment here. To be honest I haven't been scumreading Rapier but I've been wary of townreading him for the exact reasons Weapons says. Like, yeah, his posts are solidly written mafia posts but I haven't seen anything uniquely townie in them yet. I am uncertain about one thing though; @WeaponsofMassConstruction is your vote on Rapier a prod or are you legitimately interested in lynching him? Tonally it seems like you're asking how interested people are in that angle more than anything else. I can't fully tell how you feel about it yourself.

man I use a wider monitor than I did when I used to post in mafia years back so when I write my posts in Notepad++ they look smaller to me than they actually are. Gonna start reducing Notepad++'s width to the size of SF's post column while writing I'm feeling a bit better about Snike after this post which does explain why his priorities are the way they were - there is still a bit of weirdness to me though in that I thought his reply to me made him sound more tonally adamant about me than Marth (in a way where I wondered if it was forced bluster, since Marth was still his vote) and personally I think people have been iffy enough on me and Weapons that suspecting us wasn't really going against the grain of the thread like he says. His posting since his entrance has felt more engaged though so I think I'm OK moving him down the suspect list for now. ##Unvote ##Vote: @Makaze I want to push this more. Tbh I've continuously found Makaze's posting useless and it bugs me because this is what I'd expect from an unorthodox player who randed maf - posts that give up the appearance of unorthodox play but don't really move us forward at all. I don't see town's desire to find scum and work with other people to lynch them in his posts, his pushes on Bluedoom and BBM have started out vague and he requires pushing before he tries to convince other people on them. He's usually interacting with BBM, who is his main scumread, but not in a way that seems to evolve his read or produce a convincing argument why BBM is scum. Damn it there's more "it's so weird he doesn't find a slot like me scummy" komaeda danganronpa (not refa) style posting too and here it's really inconclusive. ! Okay you are being Proto then. What are they teaching people on mafiauniverse. If you're Weird Town and not scum then I still need you to actually engage with the game more beyond "these are my thoughts I can't make convincing arguments out of" and defending yourself, because you are still posting within the framework of a game where you have a win condition. I can't really tell how you feel about existing wagons and other people's cases, which flips you think would help gamestate for you even if you have no reads, etc. Basically you come off as oddly unengaged with the actual "lynch scum" part of the game for somebody posting as much as you are. @Makaze when you do the post-by-post-analysis of BBM here you open up by saying his first post is "innocent enough" but it was what got you to first call him scummy. Was your initial read on him a bluff or did you really gutread him over his RVS entrance? Weapons' slot has been looking worse to me now for similar reasons to BBM's post here. Feels like Weapons is throwing stuff out there but not meaningfully and not developing on it. In general he looks like somebody who is struggling to get a feel for the game but I don't see any effective attempts to get a feel for it either, so I'm starting to lean scum there. He cut me with a content post so I need to read that. Echoing that Elie's entrance isn't great, confused by him citing a gut read on BBM but not really trying to make heads or tails with how his main scum read is doing the same thing. @Elieson I'd like to hear how you feel about BBM's more recent posts. In general the early BBM gut reads in this game have always looked unnatural to me because BBM's earliest posts were still very RVS. @CT075 you've ducked out without voting twice now, is there a specific reason you seem uncomfortable committing to a vote yet even though both times you've had a general idea of who you suspect the most? @Shinori why Weapons over SB? I was confused when you wrote a massive kind of snarky rebuttal to SB then SB wasn't your top priority. @Refa you feel scattershot right now and I can't tell if you have scumreads you're interested in pushing other than Boron, who you waffled on a bit. can you tl;dr me on where you're at right now with your reads? You had Makaze as a side suspicion but how interested are you in actually lynching him? I feel like we're entering this weird state where nearly everybody (myself included) has Makaze as at least a secondary suspicion but hasn't been pushing him very hard. I don't think Makaze is too-wack-to-be-scum, I think his posts are more unproductive for town than for scum. Part of me also just wants to lynch Makaze to not have to deal with him though. I feel good about all of BBM/Marth/Boron right now. Marth and Boron's back-and-forth feels like townies butting heads in a way that evolves naturally rather than like fake content. I guess I would be more likely to go back on the Boron read than the others but I don't really want to lynch her today. BBM I've just found his approach to be solid and agreeable in general. Earlier townread on Refa has been withering unfortunately. SB kinda off on gut but haven't fully looked into it yet. Post is unfortunately still huge and there are still a few things I want to chew on more (I need to look into SB and Weapons, and I want to re-read Snike's Marth push in the context of Marth's posts); going to start with this for now though.

I'm not a background presence the game has literally been going on for less than 24 hours. Rather the people posting too much are insane.

Man there's a lot of posts. Mods can you order the votals so that wagons are in order of who voted first to who voted last? The voting order seems generally inconsistent and it's misleading to people who are used to the former method.

Okay apparently I forgot how to write reasonably sized posts on Day 1. sorry

Gonna Get This Post Out Here before bed, re: BBM Post 1 (and @Shinori by consequence): At the time I found Shinori more suspicious than Makaze, so naturally I would want to keep voting Shinori. I was also curious how Shinori would handle my vote since even though it wasn't super strong it was a serious vote, and I got the vibe he was trying to wait it out without responding directly which I didn't feel great about. I would say though that now that there's more to read him on, nothing of his more recent content really bugs me enough for me to consider him a priority (at worst I feel like he's not really doing that much), but it was what I felt the strongest about at the time I left the thread. I also didn't really feel much of a need to press Makaze early on because he somebody who is automatically talking nonstop by default and I didn't actually feel that badly about him. re: BBM Post 2: Scum still doesn't want the townie who gets shot to draw attention to them while alive! I think this makes sense. THAT SAID I have not liked Makaze's more recent posts. "automatically talking nonstop by default" is starting to bubble over into active lurking territory for me. bravado around BBM off an ED1 gut read and "X and Y are unaligned" is nonsensical this early to the point it comes off as trying to establish himself as a Guy Who Is Looking Into Stuff without actually approaching the game in a productive or inquisitive manner. Like, okay, you claim to be trying to get your thoughts out and solve the game out loud, but why is it presented with a high manner of confidence for reads that you don't even treat as warranting of explanation? Combined with general lack of pursuit of anything it starts to look like a replacement for scumhunting instead of something you're doing alongside it. I disagree with BBM here that scum!Makaze would be boxing himself in with the one-liners - general scum play is to just go "guess I was wrong lol" if your old reads don't benefit you anymore (because townies also change their mind, this is actually extremely easy to get away with later in the game as the townies who are more likely to needle you over it get killed off). One thing I find really weird and tbh is what initially changed my read on him is that what pings Makaze the most about people (me, BBM) is... when they're not scumreading him?? This is such an unintuive way for town, who knows they are town, to scumhunt, especially when both BBM and I had made posts indicating we WERE trying to read your alignment and were still trying to make heads or tails of you but weren't suspicious yet. It's not the same as if BBM and I had forced-looking townreads or something. I can't help but read some bizarre self-consciousness here because I think town's natural takeaway is "well obviously people aren't scumreading me, I'm town posting like a townie" whereas scum is more naturally concerned about how people perceive them. ##Unvote ##Vote: @Snike This is more immediately pressing, though. The way Snike handles his suspicions on the return post he just made doesn't settle right with me: - Of his three targets, he's going for the guy who seems like the target least likely to result in backlash given Weapons and I are known to be capricious at times. - Of his three targets, he's going for the guy who is the one where I can least tell why he thinks the posts are coming from a scum PoV. Snike, is there a conclusion I'm just not reading between the lines to see regarding the Bluedoom case? Like yeah you don't like the Refa vote, but why do you think Bluedoom is scummy as opposed to just not seeing eye-to-eye with you? There was also another vote on Refa (from Boron, who also made a reads post) and a vote switch from Bluedoom moving to Boron, which you didn't mention even though I would think these are contextually relevant to your vote, especially with Boron as the most recent wagon at the time. You contrast Boron with me later but her overall positions in this game have been closer to the guy you're voting, I think. Your post also makes it a little ambiguous whether you were fully caught up or not; had you read the most recent pages as of your post? While IMO there is a chance Makaze is just continuing to be Weird because he is a Weird player, Snike's post pings me as a very safe thread entrance with a vote that doesn't read as fully explained, so I want to pursue this right now. I was kind of like... huh on this Boron post from a Mafia 101 perspective because it doesn't actually go into specifics about any of her scumreads' actions or why she feels how she feels, and is generally indecisive. But then I think her posts since then have been OK though and basically give the explanation I would expect from a townie who wrote that post. Basically, an understandable wagon but I don't feel passionate about it myself at all. ftr @ Boron the obvious explanation for scum!Makaze posting things that don't necessarily benefit scum is that he wants to be around and fake content to look townie and those things come out while he's posting. Personally I myself don't really have any issues with Refa or Bluedoom at this point. Refa has generally come off as townie motivated since my question to them, and idk Marth's thread entrance was to say he was having trouble getting a feel for the game and then he wrote a post that seemed consistent with that, which makes sense? I haven't really had any issues with his lines of inquiry in his following posts even though I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions. I really wanted to immediately vote eclipse for being a member of the moderating class but then she didn't join the game. She could have told the admins to stop this probably

Not posting content yet, but I should point out my vote isn't appearing on Makaze's votecounts for some reason?

tbh my gut feeling is still that Shinori is scum buddying up to me before he kills me N1 and I have no better vote than this rn sorry bro how do other people feel about shinori for that matter gonna return to tactical lurking until more people post

Boron is Sunwoo, Bluedoom is Marth, Percivalé is Via, charlie underscore is SB, Cam is THE Camtech075. I don't find Weapons' vote weird personally (it is technically accurate that I entered the game passively compared to my meta but my meta is inconsistent and the conclusion about my alignment following it is wrong, so.). I had the same thought as Refa that Makaze reads like somebody who learned to play on another site more than anything else. @Refa Most of your posts so far are asking Makaze questions but you don't seem to scumread him, are you drawing specific conclusions from this line of questioning?

@WeaponsofMassConstruction Things are already happening and further things will happen as more of the playerlist checks into the thread so I don't feel the need to do anything special. Other than that I'm just posting thoughts to bounce them off people and get a feel for the game I have literally not played this game in like 4 years

I think Makaze's reads right now are Weird but I don't know if I think he's scummy for it. I don't really have a feel for how he plays so could be either town trying to force out content or scum trying to imitate how he thinks he'd do that as town. That said I'm fairly certain Boron's entrance into the game reads like standard RVS protocol which she would post regardless of her role PM. If there's anything that strikes me as off about Makaze, it's the potential that hunting for a SK comes from scum who just saw a suspiciously low amount of buddies in their PM so SK is fresh on their mind. SK isn't really the first thing I'm thinking about as town in ED1 because I am not Percy. But different people have different mindsets early on so I'm not placing too much stock in it yet. It might be interesting if Makaze flips scum later, though. For now I am content leaving my vote on Shinori for the continued refuge in audacity.

this is not true as I am in fact a goated zoomer "with the sauce" who, as I, a trendy zoomer, would say, "has rizz" "in ohio" My thought is that Rapier just reads as motivated to post and be silly because the game just started. NAI on its face though I don't remember if Rapier is more motivated to post earlygame as one alignment than the other. Hi Rapier also. Boron reads like Boron, the person, and not any alignment yet, imo. In general Shinori's joke is the only RVS thing that pings me as potentially like 1% alignment indicative as opposed to nothing.

How do you figure? SK isn't really something people usually hunt for, let alone this early.

I am literally like the third youngest player in the game

I will do it anyway for the sake of indicating I was previously voting somebody else; smoothens thread reading imo.

I have not been thinking about who I would nightkill N1 enough to make a joke about it, because I am town.