Axel987
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Posts posted by Axel987
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13 minutes ago, Crysta said:
Yeah that was definitely a "hey wait maybe we should actually talk to them first" moment and Rhea and crew was having none of it lol
If you give the Church even the slightest justification to bring down the axe, I get the feeling they'd jump on it. But they still seem to need the justification.
Honestly i imagined it as a combination of Rhea being quick to put the axe down and her just being sick of their shit, since this is far from the first time the western church has made power plays or tried to kill her.
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Just now, omegaxis1 said:
That's debatable. Cause he's being supported by the Agarthans, so there's some level of Agarthan influence on him. Or simply put that the reanimation of him was him clinging to the memory he last recalled, with Seiros stabbing him repeatedly to death reminding him of the Red Canyon, so he acts on that.
Except that's not what you were saying back then. Least not to that wording. You were overall speaking in regards to how the Sword was not as important to his plans, which tends to ignore what Claude himself admitted.
Perhaps you should be more clear to what you're trying to say, rather than saying one thing, expecting that we're to get that it means the other way.
Just saying.
Did Byleth not tell Dimitri in AM that even bandits have stories?
Just cause Agarthans and Rhea call Nemesis a bandit doesn't mean that he lacks a story or a perspective. As I said, if he was someone that only desired power for the sake of power, he'd have conquered Fodlan in an instant. Yet he does nothing despite all that power until Wilhelm starts a war.
Nemesis's eyes are glowing red, his voice is echoed, etc. How is that NOT an indication that there's been Agarthan tampering exactly?
The Agarthan supporting him is also quite far away and nothing changes if he gets killed outside of no more Demonic Beast reinforcements appearing. He even awakens without an Agarthan actually needing to do it, outside of Thales kamikazing his own stronghold. Now him acting on the last thing he remembers; Seiros killing him? That's PROBABLY what actually is going on.
Still doesn't change my point that this is more indicative of his character and corroborates what we're told about the actual him from not only Rhea but Thales too.
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13 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
Being revived by the Agarthans only gives indication that the Agarthans simply programmed him to kill Rhea. I mean, everything in the war from Edelgard baring the Creat of Flames to the kamikaze of Shambhala was an effort to kill Rhea. So NEmesis seems like yet another plan to kill RHea.
There's actually reason to believe otherwise with regards to the Agarthans;
When someone is under their influence or acting as one of them, there is almost always the initial few notes of Area 17 - Shambhala that plays at the start. The game plays with this several times, with Cornelia for example having it playing before you fight her in AM even if you do not have any indication of her relation to them yet.
There is no such thing for Nemesis, implying this is Nemesis acting, fully of his own volition.
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4 minutes ago, Crysta said:
He's essentially Boar!Dimitri but with Seiros instead of Edelgard. I don't think I need a full route to know what primarily motivates him (spoiler: emotions - not empathy or logic).
Traits not conductive to a wise, morally sound leader in any case.
I was being cheeky because I recall arguing, at length, about how the Sword of the Creator isn't an almighty delete button in another thread about Claude wanting it and you and your friend happily dismissed my arguments as just being mechanical inconveniences. Now it's not so OP, I guess?
I actually agree that Nemesis needed help and there was a reason for the army, I just find your reasoning very shaky, and there's more in-game evidence for Nemesis being an asshole than there is him being justified.
Honestly what he does after he gets revived, presumably working fully on his own is more indicative of his character than anything.
He makes a beeline for Rhea, pillaging and destroying any settlement between him and his target. We have no clue of what he actually did with his powers once he got them beyond the folklore but his actions really do not indicate him as being much more than a bandit whispered sweet nothings by TWSITD, committing countless atrocities for his power
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Just now, Crysta said:
Isn't he the first wielder of the Sword of the Creator, which I have been assured can cleave through mountains and singlehandedly defeat entire armies regardless of the talent of its wielder?
He also wields the full force of the Crest of Flames which is stated to be beyond the power of all other crests and considering one of those other crests is the Crest of Blaiddyd that grants super strength to the point where a super diluted version of it still allows Dimitri to be effectively a one man army...yeah.
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29 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
Nothing suggests that the Emperor had been killed, though. We know that Loog won against the Empire, but nothing that Loog had killed the Emperor. Even what Edelgard said doesn't really remark that Loog killed the emperor.
However, it's clear that if there's a mediation, there's obviously a case that the battle could have continued on had nothing been done. Loog didn't become independent by merely winning over the Empire. It took the Church backing him that he got the independence. Meaning that if there needed to be an exchange, it's clear that Loog wouldn't have gotten his independence had the exchange not happened.
It was an extrapolation given that Edelgard uses the same wording of "defeated" for Seiros beating Nemesis and we know that Nemesis was killed there. I wonder if the Japanese localisation has any different kind of wording for that?
The same dialogue also implies by "recreating that scene" that it would be the sign of a victor overall. It's also stated that winning the war is what gave the Kingdom it's independence, as per Edelgard's statement again which corroborates the Knight's statement that again, it was winning the battle that got them their independence.
..man now I wish the DLC was on the War of Eagle & Lion or the War of Heroes or the Crescent Moon War again..... Would've been so cool and I wouldn't feel like I'm looking at singular lines of dialogue for this stuff haha. I appreciate that you humour my arguments since I'm trying to get better at debating stuff which these threads tend to help.
23 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:It really has. But people thinks that Rhea having suffered genocide and such made people too willing to forgive and just criticize Edelgard for acting on "false" info.
I feel it's weird to criticise her for acting on half the facts when that's, kind of the point? Characters rarely ever know everything and she felt it was her duty to act given what she knew. At this point my stance on her is that I really like her as a character but prefer the other lords and wish that the game wasn't kind of half-baked in certain places (see Edelgard and Dimitri being done kinda dirty in VW and Claude not even appearing in Silver Snow...)
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Just now, omegaxis1 said:
Yet people don't get that, or people defend that. People try to think that Loog won the battle against the Empire, so that means that they got their independence, but despite that one guy saying that the Church was forced to accept, that's contradicted by the fact that they bargained with Loog to give the Church proselytizing rights.
Everything about Faerghus is used to push Edelgard's beliefs, really.
A major problem with that.
The Church is meant to mediate between the Empire and Loog. In other words, it's meant to be a "neutral" party in here. Yet we learn that the Church only backed up Loog's independence in exchange for making the Kingdom follow the Church's religion, and give the Church proselytizing rights. But by doing this, the church violated what it means to be neutral. Being neutral means they bargain and gain NOTHING. But what happened is that they ultimately did. They took advantage of it and gave Loog independence in exchange for helping spread the Church's own influence over the new nation.
With that, it's incredibly hypocritical of Rhea to get mad at Edelgard, a member of House Hresvelg, to "betray" the Church, when Rhea betrayed the Empire here.
..yes that's why I said it's worth criticising them for the asking of prosyletising rights. My point was that saying "The Kingdom wouldn't exist at all" is blatantly wrong when the game itself outright states that they won the war for independence and Loog had killed the Emperor of the time at the Tailtean Plains as per Edelgard's own admission.
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Just now, Darkmoon6789 said:
Well, basically the entire kingdom of Faerghus only exist because of church meddling in politics, it is known as the holy kingdom of Faerghus for a reason, and this is because the church has massive influence over this state, religious policies, governs it and they pretty much have free reign. The church was also instrumental in its creation to the point that this nation wouldn't exist at all without them. Really looking at it, Edelgard is actually right that Faerghus is essentially Empire territory that was stolen from them in order to create a region where the church has more influence. Also, I really don't think that it should be the job for a group like the Knights of Seiros to put down a local rebellion such as that of Lord Lonato, that should be the job of the kingdom army. I do find it rather disturbing that a religious organisation has a private army they use to put dissenters in their place at all. Just imagine if the Catholic Church still had a private army they still used to intervene in political matters. This is a huge red flag for me.
While I don't agree with the church interferring with politics;
In terms of the Kingdom being created they had just went to war with the Empire for their independence and won. Their sovereignty was theirs and the church stepping into negotiate between them isn't inherently wrong, especially when the Kingdom was at that point able to conquer just about the entire Empire. By the time the game takes place there has been like 400 odd years insce then so saying it is 'Empire territory' at this point is like saying that America is British territory.
It is however quite fair to criticise them for asking for prosyletisation rights, even if according to the DLC it would appear Rhea had actually understandable motives for wanting to do this beyond wanting more power. That was absolutely a power play into politics that shouldn't be tolerated.
The standing army thing is definitely eyebrow raising-worthy. At the same time the Kingdom is also in clear chaos after Lambert's death even now and Lord Lonato was directly marching on the Monastery to try and kill what is effectively the Pope. Generally otherwise the Church tends to be -requested- for help in the game as seen by Margrave Gautier requesting them to retrieve the Lance of Ruin from Miklan.
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Just now, Eurydice said:
The Final Boss of GD was just pure clownery.
GD's final boss was probably the only one I actually enjoyed tbh.
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58 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:
Small Corrections: Edelgard didn't have Jeritza kidnap Flayn though; after the attack on Seiros' Tomb, The Flame Emperor loaned the Death Knight to TWSITD as part of a deal. TWSITD then had Jeritza abduct Flayn. It's the same reason that the Death Knight is at Remire Village two months later even though the Flame Emperor had no idea that Solon was going to do his experiment.
Also, I would say that Edelgard's speech was less of a CEO-during-restructuring speech and more of a tough-love speech; it's the sort of speech one can imagine she gives herself to cope with the loss of her siblings.
I agree that the Holy Tomb mission is a mess. I don't think it requires that drastic a change to fix, but yeah; it could've been handled a lot better so the decision moment wasn't nearly so jarring.
I'm pretty sure Thales didn't replace Arundal until well after the Insurrection of the Seven.
As far as I recall, the Insurrection of the Seven is the event that forced Arundal to take Edelgard and her mother to Fearghus; correct? Then one day, Arundal abruptly brought Edelgard back to Adrestia and the experiments commenced. I think Arundal was replaced by Thales at some point while they were in Fearghus, and so the experiments were TWSITD's doing, but the Insurrection of the Seven was entirely the seven nobles' doing.
The timeline around these events is a bit messy, so, if I'm wrong, could someone please explain?
The Insurrection of the Seven was an event that occured entirely outside of TWSITD's scope of action, they simply benefitted off of it. Edelgard's father was rather power hungry and tried to consolidate all power unto the Emperor's position, heavily punishing houses that acted against him; House Ordelia and Hrym for example, Ordelia had much of it's higher ranking members replaced by Empire officials(some which included TWSITD agents)
Thales simply took Arundel's body at some point after the Insurrection occured, by the time Edelgard was taken back to the empire it was almost certainly Thales acting as him.
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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
Everything changes when Byleth chooses to reject his destiny and protect Edelgard.
...? Not quite sure how this relates to my comment which had nothing at all to do with what Byleth chooses to do lol.
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3 minutes ago, Sid Starkiller said:
I've seen fanart of the two, and I will never understand why. How can someone ship two people when the relationship would be, via both canon and differing goals and personalities, doomed to failure? I just don't understand.
As for Edelgard accepting the offer of mercy, consider why she did suicide-by-cop on Dimitri in the first place. In her C+ support, she says she wants a world without "meaningless sacrifice". The "meaningless" part is very important. She considers her siblings' deaths meaningless sacrifice because it was ultimately for Slither's petty revenge plot. By contrast, she considers the casualties of this war meaningful sacrifices because the world their deaths created is supposed to be better for those who live through it, and their descendants. So their sacrifices have meaning...if she wins the war. If she loses, then all those deaths were effectively for nothing, and she can't bear the weight of that. That's why, in the 3 routes where she dies, she begs for death.
There's something intriguing about something that is inherently doomed to fail despite what either party wants, I suppose.
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7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
I don't think so. The case is that unlike Napoleon, who was forced to abdicate, Edelgard abdicates of her own volition, and by choosing a successor. Also, her war is not simply a case of her conquering nations, but how she also has people of other nations willingly join her through some forms of diplomacy. For example, her manifestos helped bring about many nobles from the Alliance and Kingdom to her side. The western portion of Faerghus had already joined her. Though she defeated Claude, it only made the other Alliance nobles join her without needing to be fought.
Edelgard's methods in CF is not like Napoleon's.
In fact, because she manages to win over nobles without needing to fight them, it just maintains a stronger unity in her efforts. The system was reformed, and ultimately resulted in her abdicating of her own will and leaving behind a successor, someone that she mentioned in tea time to be not of blood relation, but one that is both capable and kind. Ultimately, I think Edelgard's unified Fodlan definitely stands a good chance of working out, especially with how she brings about free education for commoners and allowing them to actually rise up in status. This ultimately allows many commoners to side with her.
Even Petra noted that many oppressed commoners side with Edelgard.
Isn't "The western portion of Faerghus had already joined her" only accurate in non-CF routes, given that it occured through Cornelia's coup, who she then allied with. In CF notable west-Faerghus houses like House Rowe who's territory is on the Empire-Kingdom border still seem to be on the Kingdom's side so I'm not particularly sure on that one.
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43 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:
This actually makes a lot of sense, looking at it closely, there was actually given more parallels between Edelgard and the Napoleon than I first thought. They have similar ideals and a similar reason to conquer. Edelgard is even quite short which is a myth often asscribed to Napoleon (not actually true, but it is so often believed that this could easily be a reference). I think the most impressive thing about Napoleon for me is that after returning from the island he was exiled to, just walked right into france and claimed the throne again without even needing an army, the people of work that level of loyal to him. Other French armies were sent to stop him, but most ended up joining him as he didn't want to fight their former Emperor. This of course ended with the battle for Waterloo. I should look into Napoleon more, he is a very interesting historical figure. It is also worth pointing out that the ideals of the French Revolution is probably a big reason why we have democracy in Europe today, I think this is because it served as a point of inspiration and proved that the monarchy and aristocracy could be overthrown and that people didn't have to accept the status quo. I wonder if Edelgard inspired the same loyalty in Empire territories as Napoleon did in France.
You also have a point that rebellions from Faerghus is probably inevitable, but hopefully these wars will be minor in comparison to the continental war of conquest. The hope is that after some time, the people would realise their lives are actually pretty good under the Empire and lose motivation to rebel. Edelgard's rule is going to benefit most of the commoners, it is really the former nobility who has cause to rebel and they need the commoners to support them to have any real numbers, if Edelgard's system benefits the commoners more then the numbers of rebels will be quite significantly smaller. I think some backlash is definitely to be expected when you conquer a territory, but it usually dies down with time, especially if the citizens of that territory are treated well by the new government reforming a society isn't easy, it takes a blood sweat and tears, but sometimes it can be for the best.
Edit. If Edelgard retires soon after the end of the game, it is very likely her successor would be one of the members of the Black Eagle strikeforce. Who do you think is the most likely to get nominated as Edelgard's successor? For some reason I am thinking Ferdinand or Lysithea (who is part of the Golden Deer, I know, but if recruited, the she is basically like Edelgard's little sister and one of the most loyal people to her cause. She is very capable and motivated to end both the crest and nobility system. I think Emperor Lysithea might actually work)
Honestly I always imagined that her successor would be someone raised under her system and that until a proper one could be found, Hubert and Ferdinand would act in her stead. IMO it would feel like the most apt ending for her.
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1 minute ago, Darkmoon6789 said:
Sometimes I wonder if their trauma could be used as a way for Edelgard and Dimitri to bond if they took their turns explaining their experiences. They should be able to relate to eachother to some degree
Possibly! Unfortunately there's not really enough fan-content of the two bc the fanbase is constantly at odds about them haha. The fact that it doesn't happen is also the inherent tragedy, since in either path it ends in one sibling killing the other because of their dickhead uncle.
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3 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:
Edelgard does show alot of signs of it, she has constant nightmares about her ordeals and I do believe her being emotionally closed off and having trust issues is also because of what happened to her. Not to mention her fear of rats being a direct result of this personal trauma as well (I swear, the game plague's tale would be Edelgard's worst nightmare, almost enough to give me a phobia for rats).
But given just how horrible her ordeal was, she is remarkably stable most of the time. Even if her PTSD does sometimes influence her actions. However bad what Dimitri went through was, things were worse for Edelgard. I don't understand how anyone can function at all after that.
I don't think "things were worse for her" is a particularly good thing to say since they went through very different things and their issues manifest in different ways. Trauma olympics isn't a good thing.
That being said I found a funny post on twitter saying that going into Abyss must be like lowkey a trigger for her given what she went through lol.
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12 minutes ago, Eurydice said:
That's mental illness for you. I'm getting really personal here, but we know that the voices are not real, but the big problem is that they can feel and seem very real. It sucks, and you can feel trapped by them.
I've heard that Dimitri's PTSD was done very realistically ? Not saying that they all resort to actions like murder, just that well, it's not pretty. They can feel emotionally numb, detached and distant from other people, and have angry outbursts and aggressive behaviour. That sounds like what Dimitri goes through.
Just standing up for the whole "voices in the head", thing and his mental illness.
I've heard very conflicting opinions on his depictions of mental illness from people with actual forays into psychology and metal health. Personally I've found the arguments for it being handled rather well more compelling but that might be a more inherent bias speaking. I find that the game handles mental health surprisingly best among the themes it tries to deal with tbh.
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11 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
I honestly think that Rhea only acts like she only just learned about the Agarthans now, but if she's always known, then she's really been horrible at dealing with the problems they've caused.
Also, unlikely that they are actually like Aymr and Indra's Arrow. It goes along with how Balthus indicates that his Relic is not a true Relic, as it was "created" by his house in the past, but this is cause he doesn't know how the other Relics are also the same, in that they are not gifts of the goddess.
I mean Aymr very much so seems like it was made from the same material; read Dragon Bones, as the other relics, which is what I assumed they meant by "like Hero's Relics" It's just that by the time they made Aymr, they were much more experienced with the material and were able to make it function with other crest stones.
Personally I think she only knew there was some force acting from the shadows and couldn't track or figure them out, so was largely left trying to deal with the collateral of their actions. Of course she doesn't do a great job of this because, y'know, the game's events occur.
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20 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
Possibly. But Aillel being blown up after the War only makes me have issues with Rhea.
Based on what we uncovered in the Abyss records and Aillel being blown up after the war, how does Rhea NOT know about the Agarthans?
Hm.
I just reread the dialogue in Chapter 15 of Blue Lions/Golden Deer. It's directly stated that there was once a forest in Aillel and that "a pillar of light descended from the heavens and burnt it to ash."
Which seems to indicate this happened AFTER the War of Heroes indeed, given that it wasn't healed by Sothis. This also seems to be corraborated by Rhea's dialogue in CH21 of GD; where she states that a pillar of light fell onto the MONASTERY, which is only built well after the war of heroes mind you, and was deflected and landed in Aillel.
There's also a report in the Abyss records that implies that there's someone working behind the scenes behind all these strange occurences(TWSITD is only added in the ENG localisation) and said book has been getting updated until very recently, it mentions Claude's uncle's death for one; implying that someone VERY old is behind it, or that it's been getting added to over the years by a group. So, does she know they exist but can't track them?
Hm. The same report also states that Loog's army had weapons that very much so resembled the Hero's Relics, similar to weaponry like the Arrow of Indra or even an actual artificial relic like Edelgard's Aymr? If so it possibly gives Rhea another motive for wanting to prosyletize in new Faerghus territory.Really the only reason I can think of for her not knowing was that they're basically impossible to track without being intimately familiar with how they do things and it's stated that Rhea was quite young when the massacre at Zanado happened.
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Just now, omegaxis1 said:
Well, Aillel was a forest, not like buildings and such. Also, based on the new info, it seems like Aillel was only destroyed AFTER the War of Heroes, based on how the text indicates that it was written within the Aillel forest, so definitely impossible for Sothis to heal that, given that she's been dead.
However, I would say that those pillars of light are NOT the same as the javelins of light, but are actually stronger than the javelins, as they were meant to help destroy Sothis herself, but failed miserably.
But yeah, back then, Agartha was at its prime. Now, the Agarthans are just a shell of their former self.
I mean yeah but also, there's fucking lava everywhere lmao.
Hm. Is it ever stated that there's a forest near current Aillel at any point or can we fully believe that Aillel was blown up after? I didn't say that Sothis healed Aillel mind you, I just said she healed the world from the similar state that Aillel is in now.
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4 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:
Things like this makes me wonder if Sothis really was a goddess or just a very powerful dragon
I'm -somewhat- more willing to put her in the former category if only because she healed the land from the Ailel-like state it was in after the Agarthans went ham with their Pillars of Light and given her powers over time.
However I'm hesitant to say that because the Pillars of Light are also hillariously inconsistent in terms of power. Apparently they caused Aillel yet they -merely- destroy part of Arianrhod and Merceus. Rhea in Dragon Mode was able to tank several of them. Is it just a matter of numbers or are the ones nowadays weaker?
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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:
It's questionable on how much knowledge the Nabateans really gave. Regardless of the case, the point remains is that the Agarthans feared Sothis and simply felt the need to protect themselves against her. Given how they seem to have the forbidden Zahras spell that only Sothis apparently could escape from, and how the ruins that Chapter 11 happened had the Crest of Flames imprinted on it, it seems like there's been some effort in trying to defeat Sothis.
But yeah, they literally destroyed four lands and still that did not do anything against Sothis. But apparently this is the type of devastation that was wrought that forced Sothis to expend all her power to heal.
The questionable aspect is fair, given that both sides we know are quite biased, just that there IS basis in Rhea's statement that we can actually see; note how the Holy Tomb in Chapter 11 is stated to have tech that the rest of the cast were surprised to see.
The Zahras thing is so???? Like, it never gets brought up again despite literally being an insta-kill spell. Like, what the fuck game lmao. However I find it hard to believe that they used that against Solon, given that Sothis breaks Byleth out of it. If they used it before and Sothis was brought back, wouldn't they know it wouldn't work?
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9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
If you take out what Dimitri joined with Rhea for in Crimson Flower, then it seems like a case where a king was just defending his nation from the invading Empire. That logic can be applied to the Agarthans in this case.
Why should the Agarthans leave their land and homes because the Nabateans moved in?
In the end, the concept of pride in oneself and ones home is something that will make someone be unwilling to ask for help from others, let alone try and just up and leave.
Also, given how the Almyrans are in present Fodlan, it's unlikely that they would have the advanced tech that Agarthans have, so they are primitive. Unlikely that they could match against Nabateans.
Honestly I find it hard to really feel for the Agarthans when their response to fearing Sothis will smite them for their hubris and violence upon the land was to apparently nuke their own country to try and kill her alongside the Nabateans.
And yeah the advanced tech came from the Nabateans who shared it with the Agarthans, who then advanced it even further; see how Rhea's Golems are rather antiquated vs the Futuristic look of the Titanus the Agarthans use, definitely not something available to the proto-Almyrans or whatever.
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4 minutes ago, Hardric62 said:
Euh her father did go to the Academy, she says so in her scenes around the Goddess' Tower. I think the lack of Hresvelg of last years at Garreg Mach would have more to do with the shortage of Imperial Princes and Princesses caused by the Mole Men.
It's directly stated by an NPC that no member of House Hresvelg has attended the academy for -several- generations before Edelgard. Is that a mistranslation perchance? Bc it doesn't line up with what Edelgard says about her father at all.
My Thoughts on Crimson Flower (1st Playthrough)
in Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Posted
Honestly my biggest issue with Jeritza is that he doesn't have any supports with Edelgard and she uh, never really explains his whole...deal. It's more than a bit disturbing that she picked up someone who slaughtered his entire family outside of Mercedes, gave him a new identity, made him the heir of another house, a stable job at Garreg Mach and hunting grounds where he could kill people where she saw fit.
This is basically never adressed to my knowledge and it's quite disturbing tbh. A shame because Jeritza as a character had a LOT of potential IMO but he's kind of relegated to this weird mix of a gag and recurring antagonist.