Aegius_NaTL
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Posts posted by Aegius_NaTL
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On 3/31/2021 at 9:52 PM, yikole said:
Hey, I made an account to ask this, hopefully the creator still checks.
On Chapter 12, I have literally every enemy killed and every chest looted, and when I go to the arrive point, I'm told that I'm forgetting something. I have absolutely nooooooo clue what this is. I figure I'm missing something obvious, but I've combed over the entire map a ton now and haven't seen anything.
Apologies for the delay, I mainly check FEU.
I believe you killed Calis instead of recruiting him (Dark Mage toward bottom left of map). Recruiting him is a requirement to finish the level. I think I was going to implement a function to force a Game Over if you kill him, but I decided that was a bit mean and should instead try to figure out another way to force you to recruit him. Then I guess I forgot about it! Thanks for bringing this up, I'll review how it's set-up and add additional functionality to make it less unfair.
On 4/23/2021 at 2:30 PM, Hasechi said:@Aegius_NaTL How the h the game has Sailor Uranus portrait ? xD
I'm not sure what this is referring to. The Privateer (Pirate) class has a generic class card. Or did you mean something else?
EDIT: Oh I think I see what you mean. There's a character portrait that kinda looks like Sailor Uranus (as I've discovered upon Googling "Sailor Uranus") - one of the judges from the beginning of the game. That portrait was taken right out of the large art repository on Google Drive. I had no idea who it was supposed to be lol.
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I was a bit concerned with this in Valhalla after seeing the initial trailers/interviews. AC is no stranger to revisionism, but Valhalla is probably the most excessive it its perpetration among the series. From weaponry to armor to culture to architecture, the game misses the mark quite a bit.
One of my big problems is the complete lack of mention or representation of slaves (tbf, I'm not even half way through this very long game yet, so maybe this will happen?). Slaves were a huge part of society in this era, and to exclude the aspect entirely is pretty poor.
The game does get right the fact that the relationship between Saxons and Vikings was complicated, with each side having internal factions that would ally with like-minded folks on the other side.
I am enjoying the game overall and just trying to appreciate it for what it is: a theme park in 9th century England in which I can (sort of) roleplay a member of the Assassin's Brotherhood.
Also, those of you shunning Ubisoft games on principle, I hope you do the same for other companies with anti-consumer and/or offensive policies. That would include Nintendo, Sony, Riot, and others. I'd also add that the team that built Valhalla is comprised of hundreds (or more) of individuals of varying professional levels and varying personal demographics and views - seems a bit unfair to discount their work because some executives were backwards morons.
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Oh man, there are some good ones, that's for sure. That VS XIII one is great.
The very best:
SpoilerRunner up:
SpoilerThird place:
SpoilerHonorable mention to literally every other AC trailer because they're all varying degrees of great.
EDIT: Oh right... 'why they're good.' Well, the first one is a reference to a monumental narrative moment for Geralt from the books. It sort of emblemizes his conflicting journey toward being a helper of the people rather than an emotionless bounty hunter. The ending of him saying "killing monsters" makes it doubly more powerful. It's actually a "quieter" trailer and not as over-the-top as something like VS XIII or AC3, but I think it doesn't necessarily need to be that involved visually.
The AC trailers are always nuts. 3's and Brotherhood's are great at telling a contained story and referencing the overarching narrative at the same time, while maintaining maximum badassery. There are a number of AC trailers I could have posted instead of those two, like Revelations', Unity's, and 4's.
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I'm about one hour into AC Valhalla. Liking it a lot so far. My biggest problem with Odyssey was the weightless combat and "bullet sponge" enemies. It's slightly improved in ACV (though, still not where I'd like it to be tbh). Can't comment much on the open world yet. I've heard it's more concentrated and less copy/pasted than Odyssey... fingers crossed. I am kind of disappointed with the combat animations. It looks like you use the same animations for both single wielding and dual wielding. Maybe as you get more abilities, it will be become varied. We'll see. Still pretty early, but overall I'm optimistic and liking it.
EDIT: Had some more time with the game. My new biggest gripe by far: the audio quality. It's horrendous. It's almost inexplicable how a AAA company shipped something with this level of audio degradation. I'm staggered and a quite a bit annoyed. It's very jarring. It's hard to explain without hearing it - but the environmental/ambient audio is the worst quality audio I've ever heard in a AAA game. Heck it's worse than most indie games and movies I've played/watched. Hoping for a HQ audio pack that isn't as poorly compressed (FWIW, the voice audio is mostly passable).
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7 hours ago, SSbardock84 said:
Collectively I'd say AC Origins and AC Odyssey. I pre-ordered AC Origins, because, you know, Ancient Egypt. How could I not? I figured it wasn't going to be good since they said they were going to start releasing their games every other year and focus on updating each game throughout the year. I didn't get super hooked into that whole aspect, I only played like the whole story and did like half the trophies. It was still really good and it was my favorite AC game up to that point, most of the ones prior to that being a bust. Then Odyssey was announced and I didn't preorder it, despite being a major geek for Ancient Greece. I waited for it to come back and see some ratings/reviews. I honestly didn't think they'd come out with another decent game in a row after failing so many times lol. But I heard immediately it was great and so I got it and I fell in love. Again, I didn't buy any DLC but I did get back into the game recently. Got 100% trophy completion in it and have about 80 hours total, I've only put in a few since I started playing again. I plan on buying the DLC some day when it's cheaper.
But because of the success of these two games I pre-ordered AC Valhalla with the season pass. So that'll be my first AC DLCs I've ever played, which feels weird since I've been playing these games since they first came out. The full dive trailer had me sold hard though. The fact that you can go to Asgard is amazing and that Excalibur is in the game. That has me excited for more Arthurian Legend stuff. So excited for this game.
Coincidentally, I'm currently finishing the Odyssey DLC in prep for Valhalla. I also decided to finally play Syndicate, since I had skipped it in the aftermath of the Unity debacle. Origins' "live service" component was wholly ignorable and added very little to the game (not counting the paid DLCs). Odyssey improved a bit in that area, with The Lost Tales of Greece - but both are just attempts to extract MTX from you. Odyssey's grind and XP curve were particularly built for that.
I would recommend buying The Fate of Atlantis DLC for Odyssey. It has a decent amount of interesting content, and it will very likely relate to Valhalla's story. You can definitely skip Odyssey's first DLC (Legacy of the First Blade, or something like that) - it's horrible. It's a totally self-contained story with some of the worst writing I've ever seen in gaming.
I was a bit disappointed that Odyssey didn't go more in-depth with the Peloponnesian War. Very few pieces of popular media portray this era in history, and I was excited to be a fly on the wall for all of the major beats from ~430 - 405. But the game really only covers the first 1/3 of the war and not that comprehensively.
I have an AMD reward code for Valhalla, but I haven't gotten the Season Pass yet. Probably will though.
On the direct topic of the thread though, I am surprised to be enjoying Syndicate as much as I am. I do find myself in the camp of people who feel the newer AC games should be their own spin-off franchise, and the older formula should remain as Assassin's Creed. I wouldn't mind if they are still in the same universe and have related lore, but Origins and Odyssey are barely Assassin's Creed games (both in content and gameplay). You don't really play as an Assassin in either game (you do "assassinate" people, but you're not a member of the Assassin's Brotherhood, which was the initial basis for the entire franchise). Also, the modern day story has been wrecked by carelessness and needs a reboot to the point right after Desmond... ya know.
Anyway, Syndicate is a breath of fresh air to me. It's much simpler than Unity - it's almost like the essence of what an AC game is (or used to be). It has a fairly simple gameplay loop, but it's fun and rewarding. Whereas I haven't been able to finish Unity, I think I will finish Syndicate.
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20 hours ago, vanguard333 said:
and the Chinese Government didn't like certain aspects of the original game's lore (namely that Noctis' powers originally came from being chosen by a goddess of death).
Huh.
Why was the Chinese government even intimately enough involved in this random FF game's development to know the premise?
Is there something in Chinese folklore/culture that makes receiving power/energy from darkness/death a taboo? What was their problem with this story?
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48 minutes ago, JimmyBeans said:
This.
On the note of Star Wars I also was really looking forward to Star Wars Battlefront 3.
Great call. Back in the mid/late 2000's, I remember them talking about integrating land and space combat in the same map. Fast forward to 2020, and Battlefront II (2017) has not even implemented that, as far as I'm aware.
I think it's perhaps more feasible with the new console hardware. So we'll see.
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Star Wars 1313 is the first that comes to mind (usually gets mentioned in this discussion). The vertical slice looked really cool, and having a non-Jedi game is always fun.
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8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:
Ghost of Tsushima is one I definitely loved this year. I’m personally not too big on western developed games because I’m a weeb and I just generally don’t like the obsession western triple A develpers have with realism and multiplayer shooters but this game oh boy. This game was basically the scratch for an itch I never knew I had. A sort of realistic samurai game in a historical fiction setting. I love just about everything about this game from the stealth, the combat, the story, everything just had my inner Japanese history nerd screaming with delight.
This is the one PS exclusive I'm actually angry that I can't play. I'm considering buying a PS4 just to play GoT and then to sell it right after. Kind of hoping they upgrade it for PS5 and do a PC release along with it... but that's unlikely (well, the second part is unlikely).
The very fun, although quite dated, Way of the Samurai 4 is the closest I'm getting. 😕
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Not sure if this thread has been done before, but I thought it may be interesting to have something a bit opposite of the "games that disappointed you" thread.
To start:
Way of the Samurai 4. It's hilarious, the combat is pretty satisfying, and it has insane replayability and MANY character/skill builds. I didn't expect much from it - I had barely remembered playing the first or maybe second one on PS.. 2? 1? can't remember, and I saw it on the Steam store. Was very happy with my purchase. Put about 35 hours on it and there is definitely more content I didn't get to. Would recommend if you're into the samurai thing.
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I'm sure we've all heard this track a million times, but I hadn't seen this orchestral rendition:
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23 hours ago, peerless said:
I feel like an early axe user is what's really missing, instead of in chapter 5. This is especially considering there are many soldiers early on. The chapters aren't so hard that you need it, but it definitely felt weird having 3 sword users, a lance user (cavalier), and then no axe users, especially since usually in the early game you heavily rely on the weapon triangle. Of course Tethes uses axes, but he 1 rounds anyone anyways, and you tend to use unpromoted units early on to give them EXP.
The EXP gain is generous enough that I think you can baby any unit even if you stop using them, so I might give Bastila a go. Unmounted units tend to be cooler than mounted units (even if they are less useful) so I might drop the cavalier.
The difficulty of the chapter when getting the boots makes a lot of sense, you basically need Ry to tank everything so being on two fronts makes that a lot harder - noted, thanks!
I don't remember exactly which chapters were fair/unfair in the economy system, but I think the easiest way to remedy this is just to release the requirements for each chapter. There are definitely a lot of easter eggs in each chapter (visiting villages for promoted units in chapter 10, for example), but knowing turn counts ahead of time will help you plan for those. Then the player can make more tactical decisions, gauging whether they want the Fili shield/chests in exchange for a 5000g loss, for example. I'm sure that in your planning of each chapter, you take easter eggs versus turn count into account, but from a player perspective, since you don't know what the rules are, it doesn't make sense to leave anything on the map. The result feels more like luck than anything else, which never feels good in a strategy RPG. If you've played Sun God's Wrath, which is another hack on this website, they also have fast/slow clear bonuses, but it's stated at the beginning of each chapter exactly what it is, which lets you ease into this new system and plan for it. Also, I did get the note - this long payoff is the kind of thing that people love!
I think I'm fine goldwise, but I wonder if I send you my save file if it's possible to add Kaz and Marsil as recruited units? Only if it's not too much effort - if not I can just retry the chapter now that I know the requirements, but it'd be nice to not have to repeat the chapter.
Thanks! I'll keep updating with any new tidbits as I keep playing the game.
On normal mode I was able to get every chest/village and still not lose gold. I think I just need to adjust the thresholds by +3/4 turns for hard mode. I have your save file, so I'll check what your turn counts have been up through Ch 11. Once I gather more data and amend the values for hard mode, I'll post it in the top post (along with growths and promotions in a few hours, in a new "Data" section or something like that).
For now, here are the turn thresholds in which you start losing money, for the rest of your game:
Chapter 20: 21 turns or higher
Chapter 21: 21 turns or higher
5 hours ago, peerless said:Just hit chapter 15! More things I've noticed:
- Some walls that should be breakable either can't be targeted, or can't move. For example, the first wall on the right in chapter 12 and some of the walls in chapter 14.
- The promotion paths for Eve and Sythe are a bit strange. I think adding a disclaimer that they repromote after reaching level 10 again in their advanced classes would be pretty useful
- Eve feels pretty weak as a unit. Getting locked into a T2 class with only Anima makes it not really worth it to use her - it just makes more sense to use other magic units that get staves
- EXP gain definitely feels too high right now. I think there should be more punishment if you're overleveled. For example, my T2 healer unit is easily level 11 by end of chapter 14, without purposely trying to use them more. The increased stat caps also make it so that you can really funnel one character and dominate maps.
- Super weird bug after looking into my chapter 15 prep menu, I found 3 generic units that weren't there before: I've attached some screenshots. I can solve this by just killing them off but it was a bit weird. If it helps, they all came with a longsword in the inventory
Aaron can promote using Hero Crests earlier - not sure how that might introduce bugs/influence the game, but he shouldn't be able to promote using Hero Crests if he has a forced promo later. Also Tethes nooo
The wall thing is weird... sometimes breakable walls just don't work, and I don't have any idea as to why - this didn't start happening until my most recent playthrough a week or so ago. I'm not at the limit for objects, and usually they work if you just restart the chapter. Generally, it's probably not worth it to restart the chapter just for a wall or two, but the fact that a restart resolves it, points to something being odd for sure. It's on the list to debug.
I initially had notes on Eve's and Sythe's promotions in General Notes, but I cut that part out in an effort to shorten this (already quite long) post. I'll bring this info back.
Eve should grow to be pretty strong. She also has access to a special set of swords - the Energy Swords, you may have seen them. Tbh, the sword thing did not end up being as useful as I imagined/hoped, and during testing I ended up mainly using her as a battle-focused sage-type. Her growths (and Sythe's too) should justify leveling them. But, Anni or the sage you get around Ch 15 can probably be just as good. Really, I just wanted an excuse to use those Celica animations. EDIT: Just uploaded the growths sheet... Eve's growths are a bit lower than I thought they were. I will be increasing them for the next version, and I'll update the sheet when it releases.
XP gain is complicated. It's a bit of trial/error to get it right too. From a philosophy standpoint, I also like the idea of leveling up a lot. Killing an enemy in the vanilla games and getting 15 experience or 3 or 4 (if you're promoted) always annoyed me a bit; like it's not enough XP to even warrant the kill. So I attempted to have fairly generous XP gains and have fairly buffed enemies compared to regular FE8 to compensate for the player party's growth. As you get into the game's third act, enemies should get tougher. See if you think this balances out the XP gain. I imagine you'll have 3 or 4ish player units at the level cap right around the last few chapters. Another factor in all of this is hard mode - I think there's additional XP stuff that goes on in hard, so it may be that I need to tone down hard mode bonuses (if those exist? I can't remember).
If you choose to favor a unit or two who become unstoppable and relegate the other 8/10 slots to just supporting them, I'm okay with that. But if all of your units are naturally becoming behemoths without you doing it on purpose - yeah that's not what I intended. Enemies should start getting tougher where you are currently though, so see if that justifies the player party progression.
Those extra units are a very simple "bug" actually. They're the helpers from when Aaron promoted. I thought I deleted them, but it seems not. I've changed it now for the next version. You can just ignore them - you won't get close to reaching the party limit anyway.
Hero Crest thing is another simple bug, fixed for the next version. Thanks for reporting it.
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45 minutes ago, peerless said:
Hey, thanks for the hack! Always super surprising to get a full completed hack out of nowhere. I've been enjoying it quite a bit and am currently on chapter 10. Some general feedback:
- Getting 3 sword users at the beginning feels a bit wasteful, so I had to bench Bastila since my lord is required... Reed was also benched since he feels like worse Aaron and there's enough other cool classes that Hero takes a backseat (Dragoon!)
- No healers for a long time - I actually enjoyed this since it made me use vulneraries more, and I tend to just always sell those and default my playstyle around healers
- Lots of dialogue - mixed feelings on this one since I do enjoy the backstory but it definitely feels like there's a bit too much talking in between chapters
- Some of the portraits can use touchups/look a bit funky
- I think it would be nice if you could include growths/promotion paths in a txt file or a README if that's not too much work. This would also help since I didn't use Tethes for a long time due to Jagen stereotype, but he actually has really good growths.
- Chapter (4)?, the FoW map with dark mages, is way too hard. That might just be because I ran to the village for the boots, but if I didn't abuse emulator save states there's no way I could've beaten that chapter. FoW + waves of 5 dark mages into a mostly res-less team is not really playable/fun. I think either FoW or swarms of dark mages alone is fine, but together it's too much
- Would also be nice if there was some kind of indication about the turn clear bonuses/penalties. I've had chapters where I thought I cleared relatively fast, and then got a -5000, and vice versa. It's nice to have a target for turn clear instead of fumbling around blindly. I ended up arena abusing not to level characters, but to stock up on gold since I'm on the most challenging difficulty and had about 3000g left, didn't want items to start getting taken.
Sorry if this feels nitpicky - these are just the things that stood out to me! Otherwise, I really like the hack so far and look forward to beating everything.
Also, a quick questions about the chapter I'm on - I'll put it in a spoiler to avoid spoiling anything.
I'm on chapter 11, just beat chapter 10. I couldn't recruit Kaz (the mercenary?) with Aaron, I assume he's only recruitable by Bastila/Reed? I've already benched them so I'm not sure. Also, what about the bard in the slave cage?
Thanks again for the great work!
Thank you for the notes.
What would you recommend for Bastila and/or Reed in terms of classing? Or, what did you feel was noticeably missing (aside from a healer)? I've found that Bastila is consistently pretty useful - Reed has been hit or miss on my playthroughs.
Vulneraries are meant to be the main method of healing until you get a T2 promoted magic unit. There should be plenty of Vulneraries, but let me know if you feel there hasn't been enough.
The script measures about the same as FE8 - around 40,000 words (not counting Supports). That dialogue sequence at the end of Ch 9 is one of two long ones - I'm guessing that one is what prompted this note (mostly). There's only one more exchange that is similarly long. I can look at pacing again though as I continue to polish and take feedback.
Portraits are all splices done by me (well, a few exceptions - you can probably tell which are mine and which are from the mug respository). Some are passable, some definitely need touching up. I learned splicing for this project as I went about building the game. I may re-splice some of the poorer ones.
If you try to get the Boots, the chapter is supposed to get almost unreasonably hard. I think that's a fair trade-off for giving you Boots so early - someone tested the game on hard mode, and they were able to get the boots. Personally, I recommended just doing the chapter without going for the Boots (and this is how I play it every time - except for one test run). I sort of took inspiration from TLP on this - which also has early game Boots available, but are very difficult (or maybe impossible?) to get.
If you can, let me know which chapters you felt were unfairly punitive in the economy system. I tried to lean generous, but I guess this is the kind of thing that needs more than 1 or 2 people testing it to make sure it's fair. Be careful about arena abusing - you may end up losing the gold you think you're earning. As a bit of a failsafe, there is also a way to get 50K gold by simply visiting two villages in two different chapters (did you get the Note in Ch 8)? If you feel it's continuously unfair and you're struggling to buy basic weapons/items, send me your save and I'll raid the imperial treasury myself for funds.
I can draft growths and promotion paths tonight or tomorrow; will do. I sort of jokingly consider Tethes more of a Siegfried than a Jeigan. And Tethes not only has good growths, but he should also get XP gain similar to the unpromoted units. He's not meant to be Marcus or Seth soloing the game, but he's definitely worth investing in if you like the character/animations or have a use for what he offers in your party.
SpoilerKaz is recruitable by Jack - I should probably make this apparent somehow or give him an Aaron option too. Kaz is basically for if you didn't use Reed, and then decide you want a merc. He and his main recruiter (Jack) are also a bit of an Easter Egg.
Aaron or Kaz recruits Marsil.
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12 hours ago, Zak19 said:
Thank you for your reply
I will try another emulator
It looks like the mercenary up there may be the cause of this problem; others are now reporting it too.
This new version should fix it - I've just removed that mercenary, for the moment. I have to go out for a bit now, but I'll look at it more in-depth when I return. If you don't want to restart the chapter, send me your save, and I can get you setup at that point so it isn't freezing. Also, it seems some people are able to circumvent this issue by just not moving the cursor near that mercenary; may or may not work for you.
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4 hours ago, Zak19 said:
Ch. 5
If i kill this soldier before jack arrives
Jack kills himself
Yeah that's a potential problem that I thought, "eh, no one will kill the soldier that quickly anyway." Guess I was wrong. A fix for it isn't too difficult, I will implement it for the next version. Looks like you got passed it.
59 minutes ago, Zak19 said:And ch6
Game frezzes when i end my turn after i visit the Village
In this case, if you could send me your battery state or save file, I can look into it. This freezing hasn't been reported before. As I said to Bilal too, please try another emulator if you have a save nearby. Otherwise, I can debug and look into it today/tonight.
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4 hours ago, Bilal said:
Not sure if its just me. After turn 1 in Prologue, the game freezes whenever i select any character. Is there a way to overcome that?
Huh, I have not seen this issue reported before.
If you could send me your save, I will look into it today. I'd also recommend trying on another emulator - testers said Chapter 11 didn't work on mgba, maybe there are other similar issues.
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Good afternoon everyone,
I've been working on this FE8 hack for about 10 months. I plan to continue polishing it, especially as more people play, but it is definitely feature and content complete. There’s a lot to read here, but none of it is truly necessary to play and (hopefully) enjoy the hack. If you do play the hack, I’d recommend at least reading through ‘General Notes,’ ‘Major Changes from FE8,’ ‘Chapter-specific Notes,’ and ‘Spoils of War.’ And maybe ‘Known Issues’ too.
Please be mindful of spoilers and use tags to hide comments where appropriate.
In addition to the 'main hack,' I built a short prequel which details relevant world history. It is two chapters long, and more information about it can be found in the prequel archives below.
Main hack, version: 10422-1
Prequel, version: 10422 (note: Ch1 is a forced loss - Kenner's death triggers the ending, or allowing the enemy general to arrive at the throne room does too. The former should take about 15 minutes, with the latter taking a bit longer)
General Notes
Spoiler- Story, Challenge, and Very Challenge are the three modes. Challenge is aimed to be tougher than FE8N, probably comparable to FE7N
- Weapon values, XP gains, growths (especially enemy), are all amended. Enemies are tougher,
especially late game. But… due to the XP curve, you will also be much tougher. Keen to hear feedback if this makes the endgame too easy
- Vulnerary restores 15 HP
- Some houses do give items, not just villages
- Tent houses cannot be visited, but the regular looking houses can be (except in the prologue, Ch 15, and Ch 16)
- Light infantry can cross most rivers
- Weather does not affect movement, and the movement penalty on desert tiles is mostly gone/significantly mitigated
- Any class should be able to find hidden desert items
- There are two desert locations in which you can find items on the ground. I will not reveal the locations of items, however, if you get a certain item and bring it with you to a desert, you can Reveal the locations of the items (note: 13x is not one of the maps with hidden items, despite being a desert map)
- Bosses that are not guarding a throne/specific area may move to initiate combat if you’re in range, and bosses that are guarding a throne may move if you have killed all of their guards
- If you’re playing and thinking to yourself, “but wait, there’s no way to cross that area or get over there! wtf!!” - just wait, everything should be complete-able
- Some enemies will attempt to retreat when wounded (even if they can’t heal), while some will continue fighting
- You probably don’t want to let Bastila die, but her death will not trigger a Game Over, so it’s not a requirement
- Ven can promote from Fighter into either Hero or Brigand (“What?! Brigand, why?!” You’ll see… if you dare pick that option)
- There are a few enemies with Sleep and Silence staves; no Berserk
- Sure Shot, Great Guard, Slayer, and Pierce are gone. Lethality stays, though the activation % is 33 for grunts and 20 for bosses
- Assassins get Pick
- If you see a floor tile that has obviously wrong shading for where it’s placed, 99% of the time that means there’s something gameplay-related there (Secret Shop, range event, etc.). 1% of the time it may just be a mistake, so if you feel like you find one that has nothing else going on, let me know.Major Changes from FE8
SpoilerThe level cap has been raised to 25 (promotion at 10+ remains). Stat caps for T2 classes have been increased as well, generally within the 30-40 region for offensive stats and the mid-20s for defensive stats.
Support points are acquired when units are 3 tiles or closer, and Support bonuses activate only when units are 1 tile away (this is opposite the vanilla setup). There is no limit on how many Support points a unit can acquire in one chapter. And I’d very much like there to be no limit on how many A supports a unit can have, but there isn’t a patch for this currently. I do plan to start learning some ASM now that the bulk of this project is done though, so I will perhaps implement this in the future.
T1 melee classes have an HP cap of 45, T1 magic HP caps at 40. , T2 melee classes have an HP cap of 60, T2 magic HP caps at 50.
Most melee weapon names are changed. If everyone hates it, I’ll change them back. The idea was to make weapons more of a “use the right tool for the job” than “put the Silver/Killer on auto-pilot,” but if it’s too annoying, I’m fine with reverting it.
Some classes are renamed to better fit the world’s lore:
Mage - Elemental Mage
Monk - Light Mage
Shaman - Dark MageDruid - Warlock
Druid (f) - SorceressMyrmidon - Swordsman (and Swordswoman for f)
Nomad - Scout
Nomadic Trooper - PathfinderPirate - Privateer
Sniper (f) (which is actually the custom Marksman class) - Markswoman
There are a number of new spells/weapons; most of them being mid to high tier. You probably won’t be able to get all of them on a single playthrough.
Bows do not have any special effectiveness against flyers.
Reflex Bow (renamed Short Bow) is 1-2 range but less crit
Markswoman get Lethality and Crit Boost (the graphic for Lethality does not display, but the auto-kill still works) (this is for a player unit only, you won’t fight enemy Markswomen because Lethality and Crit Boost on an enemy isn’t fun)
Longbows have Bolting/Purge range (but heavy weight and low might - a late game poison version is a bit better)Data (growths, recruitment, etc.)
SpoilerRecruitment Information:
Aaron should be able to recruit most units.
There are a few exceptions.
Ch 6: Alex recruits Kain
Ch 6: Davit or Tethes recruit Brit
Ch 7: Anní recruits Eve/Cynthia
Ch 10: Jack recruits KazIf you don't see a potential unit on this list, that means Aaron can recruit them, in addition to whoever the direct connection is (where applicable).
Spoils of War turn thresholds that result in loss of gold:
Ch 3: 12 turns or more
Ch 6: 13 turns or more
Ch 7: 17 turns or more
Ch 9: 16 turns or more
Ch 10: 21 turns or more
Ch 14: 19 turns or more
Ch 20: 21 turns or more
Ch 21: 21 turns or moreSecret Shops:
Ch 17
Ch 22Relevant Lore (including world map)
Spoiler
To reiterate and emphasize: this lengthy lore overview is not 100% necessary, and you should organically learn most of it from just playing the game. This is less of a resource to memorize prior to playing the game, and more of a library for you to return to if you want clarity or depth on lore aspects as you get comfortable with the world.
The continent* of Ivos is a binary landmass, with a moderately-sized strait cutting it right down the middle. The western and eastern halves have had varying degrees of relations over the course of the world’s history. At the moment, a fairly stringent empire rules over Ivos, with the exception of the independent nation of Qorlin.
The Ivosian Empire - founded roughly 120 years prior to the hack’s story, the empire undesignedly evolved from a multi-national treaty that aimed to promote continental security in the aftermath of a catastrophic war. The treaty’s drafting and deliberations were led by Eldros, and initially the Eldrosian monarch was promoted to High King of Ivos - this was an attempt to establish a continental power with supreme oversight over Ivosian security matters. However, after the death of the first high king, the successor declared himself ‘Emperor of Ivos’ and total governing ruler. The rest of Ivos affirmed this transition, as it was merely nominal at the time. And with the scars of war still present in people’s minds, there was no desire for armed disagreement.
Over decades, the imperial family and ruling class tightened its grip and introduced new taxes and laws that strengthened the emperor’s power and diminished the efficacy of national governments. Standing militaries were abolished**, and only the empire was allowed to maintain a professional army. The countries were each permitted to retain a small defense force (a reserve-type unit) to deal with banditry/crime and potential unforeseen threats. Shortly after the new military laws were enacted, the emperor declared that the countries of Ivos were now provinces, in an attempt to promote Ivosian nationalism over peoples’ respective home countries. Despite the increasingly authoritarian nature of the empire, the status quo has been fairly peaceful throughout the empire’s existence.
The imperial military takes both conscripts and volunteers into its ranks. Enlisted soldiers are trained at one of the many training camps spread throughout the continent. For officers, each province has a small, imperial-managed training school for nobles that qualifies graduates for officer posts in the imperial military (it is not required to join upon completing the school, but you are subject to conscription).
It’s important to note that although the emperor resides in Eldros’ capital, Eldros is a province. There is no master state, and all governing power stems directly from the emperor. A special district within Eldros’ capital contains the imperial keep, where the emperor and his government reside.
**An exception to this rule is the existence of Eldros’ Sentinel Order. Previously a regiment-sized component of the Eldrosian Army, they acted as an elite van of shock troops during wartime and magistrates during peace, the Sentinels are now relegated to the size of a company. Their present mission: to guard the Eldrosian monarch and to aid other provinces’ defense forces. Although the imperial line has renounced its Eldrosian heritage, Eldros has received infrequent benefits from being the progenitor of the empire. The Sentinels share training facilities with the imperial officer school located just outside of Eldros’ capital.
Eldros – historically the “first among equals” of the nations of Ivos, and previously the wealthiest and most technologically advanced of the Ivosian monarchies. But, imperial rule has inadvertently acted as an equalizer across the continent, and Eldros no longer boasts a significant edge over Jurgari and Crodolia. A cadet branch of the Eldrosian royal family was elevated to the monarchy following the ‘heir apparent to the high king’ declaring himself emperor and renouncing his Eldrosian heritage.
The capital of Eldros, Akhen, was considered an architectural marvel compared to contemporary continental cities for some time. However, the empire has not been interested in cultivating arts or visual aesthetic, and certain landmarks and parts of the city have not been well-maintained or innovated. While greatly diminished compared to pre-imperial times, Eldros’ artistic scene remains the premier location for artists across Ivos.
Irkinya – a tropical, purely agrarian-based land, Irkinya is the smallest of the Ivosian provinces. The climate is warm-to-hot all year round, and a variety of crops are grown here and sold across the continent (though, all deals must be approved by the empire’s economic planners). Irkinyans are not nomadic, but they do have exceptional appreciations of the outdoors, tribalism, and simplicity. Irkinya is Eldros’ closest friend; the two countries are separated by a large forest and some rocky terrain, but they enjoy frequent exchanges of goods, knowledge, and people.
Terra Servus - previously the nation of Corvo, first occupied and enslaved by Jurgari in the aftermath of the continental war which preceded the empire’s formation. A Corvan insurgency operated within Jurgari during the war, and additional events that occurred shortly after the war’s conclusion incensed the Jurgari people to the point of occupying Corvo and enslaving its citizens.
When the empire formed, roughly a decade after the war’s conclusion, governance of the enslaved Corvans was transferred to the emperor, who renamed the country ‘Terra Servus.’ An imperial-appointed arbiter now governs Terra Servus directly, with the slaves’ labor being leveraged at the arbiter’s and the emperor’s discretion. While some Ivosians are not fond of the idea of slavery, Corvo is generally accepted to deserve their fate for their responsibility in causing the ‘War of Corvan Aggression’.
Jurgari – previously nicknamed the “Eldros of the West,” Jurgari’s vast woodlands and plains are ripe with natural resources and wildlife. However, an unknown catastrophe resulted in the destruction of much of Jurgari’s lush northwestern forest. Despite this, the nation remains a significant producer and seller of materials and artisan goods. Weaponry is one of the few commodities that is not primarily developed in Terra Servus, as Jurgari’s highly-skilled artisans are preferred by the empire for outfitting the imperial military.
Crodolia – a nation with a rather crude reputation. Crodolians are said to be impatient, brusque, and even unhygienic. Their northern climate is not as harsh as Qorlin’s, given their general region of residence to be south of the Narv Range of mountains, rather than being nestled inside of it like Qorlin. Though they arguably lack sophistication, they are shrewd traders and craftspeople. Rumors of governmental corruption are rampant. The same catastrophe that affected Jurgari also destroyed the western half of Crodolia. However, there was not much of value in that part of the country, and only a few interspersed villages across the previously encompassing plains were lost.
Qorlin – the only democracy on the continent. There are no viscounts, barons, or peerage of any sort.
The chief minister and members of the legislature are elected twice per decade. All voting is purely popular, and a plurality of 60% or higher wins. Qorlinians pride themselves on having an adept understanding of justice and governance. Their military is formidable, given extensive training in the harsh northern reaches of the continent. Wyverns are natural to Qorlin’s environment, and you’re unlikely to see one elsewhere in Ivos. Although Qorlin is physically located on Ivos, the country is siloed both by choice and regional geography, and they have had little contact with the empire and it’s provinces; they conventionally keep to themselves… at least, publicly that is.*It’s a bit murky, whether Ivos is an actual continent by definition. It’s more accurate to say the two landmasses that comprise Ivos share the same continental crust. But throughout the hack and any mentions here, I think it’s just easier to call it a continent.
Chapter-specific Notes and Recruitment
SpoilerRegarding recruitment, it should be apparent in most cases who you need to use to recruit someone. Generally, Aaron can recruit everyone-ish, in addition to whoever the “actual” directly connected party member is. One exception to this is Ch 7: Anní recruits the children at the top of the map, not Aaron. Another exception is Ch 6: Tethes or Davit recruit Brit, not Aaron. Otherwise, if you can’t figure out how to recruit someone, Aaron should be a reliable fallback option.
- The house in Ch 4 has a VERY good item and is worth it if you can get there. However, I don’t expect most players to be able to and I don’t recommend trying unless you’re uber confident (or just want to try for fun and won’t get upset when things get tough).
- If you kill any slaves in Chs 10 or 13x, you will probably regret it.
- You should probably kill the boss in Ch 13, but you don’t have to.
- In Ch 23, you will need to manually end your turn for the first few turns.
- Ch 15’s win condition is Defend-Rout-Talk.
The action that directly yields the win is to talk to the enemy boss (you’ll probably want him to be the last unit on the field when doing so). However, some of your party must defend your camp. If enemies reach either of the two forts, game over. And if you kill the boss, game over.
Regarding enemy AI in this chapter - some enemies will go straight for the forts and ignore your units, some will go for the forts but attack any players on the way, and some will purely be going for your units.
Spoils of War
SpoilerAround half of the chapters will yield a reward in gold for completion. This is meant to both give the player their main source of income and reward decisive play. While you get a reward for finishing a chapter reasonably, you will incur a debt for taking too long.
There are five possibilities for the outcome:
+15,000 gold
+7,500 gold
+2,500 gold
-5,000 gold (becomes -10,000 on two late-game chapter)
-some of your weapons/items (if you don’t have the 5K/10K gold to cover the debt)Average players should be falling into the +7,500 category most often and shouldn’t ever see the penalty. The system leans toward being generous, so you would have to really take a while to lose gold/items (arena abuse will almost certainly result in you reaching the penalty thresholds).
Without giving away too much, let’s just say you’ll probably want to be responsible with your gold for some time. It will be very clear when the game wants you to spend a lot.
Screenshots and Trailer
SpoilerKnown Issues
Spoiler- Switching the window color currently causes a freeze/crash. I am looking into fixing this.
- Only the melee weapons are displayed in the weapon rank screen, even for magic units. Kind of annoying, I know. I’m working on resolving this. -- In Ch 13, if you use ‘the thing,’ some border tiles on the western and eastern sides of the map get bugged (as in, they display as solid black instead of their correct tiles). You likely wouldn’t step on these tiles anyway, so just ignore them for the time being.
- One breakable wall in Ch 21 and one in Ch 24 sometimes don’t work for some reason - it shouldn’t be too annoying, as there are other alternatives nearby. I am working on fixing this.
- A certain character that you recruit at the end of Ch 15 might show up as level 0 in Ch 16 instead of their assigned level. If this happens, the unit is still playable as normal, just enjoy the extra potential levels.
- A particular unit’s portrait changes after promotion. The patch that does this does not cover every instance though (Support convos and ending slides are the two places I’ve noticed); not a huge deal, but if you see this, it’s not a bug - just the way it is.Atrocity of Love - prequel archive
SpoilerThe following download is a two-chapter prequel, Atrocity of Love.
Why? Well, a lot of fiction media has backstory to the main content that only exists in text (an info-dump in the beginning like the FEGBA games, a mentor-type character recounting the events, etc.) - I thought it may be fun to play through some of this backstory yourself. So, this prequel hack brings you through some of the major historical events that lead to the happenings of the main hack.
It is not required to play this to understand the main hack’s story. However, you’ll definitely get an added angle on what’s going on.
Since this is not the full hack, this prequel retains quite a bit of FE-ness, meaning: most music is from vanilla, many classes are from vanilla, there aren’t fancy new battle frames or menus or item icons, etc. However, the characters are all original splices, and there are a few imported classes in the second chapter.
This prequel takes place roughly 150 years prior to the main hack. You will follow two separate (but related) stories, with a different cast of characters per chapter.
(note: Ch 1 is a forced loss, Kenner's death yields the chapter ending - as does letting the enemy arrive at the throne room, but the former takes roughly 15 minutes and the latter will take longer)
Prequel lore overview archive
Spoiler
You will organically learn about the countries of Ivos (more so in the full hack), but for those of you who enjoy this type of information ahead of time, here are short summaries:
Qorlin – the only democracy on the continent. There are no viscounts, barons, or peerage of any sort. The chief minister and members of the legislature are elected twice per decade. All voting is purely popular, and a plurality of 60% or higher wins. Qorlinians pride themselves on having an adept understanding of justice and governance. Their military is formidable, given extensive training in the harsh northern reaches of the continent. Wyverns are natural to Qorlin’s environment, and you’re unlikely to see one elsewhere in Ivos. Although Qorlin is physically located on Ivos, the country is siloed both by choice and regional geography, and they conventionally keep to themselves… at least, publicly that is.
Eldros – the “first among equals” of the nations of Ivos. Eldros is the wealthiest and most technologically advanced of the Ivosian monarchies. The capital of Eldros, Akhen, is an architectural marvel compared to contemporary continental cities. Eldros’ military may be as strong as Qorlin’s, but the two nations have not tangled in a very long time. Eldrosians value wealth, power, and artistry. Their artistic scene is a beacon to artists across the continent.
Irkinya – a tropical, purely agrarian-based nation, Irkinya is the smallest of the Ivosian monarchies. The climate is warm-to-hot all year ‘round, and a variety of crops are grown here and sold across the continent. Irkinyans are not nomadic, but they do have exceptional appreciations of the outdoors, tribalism, and simplicity. Irkinya is Eldros’ closest friend; the two countries are separated by a large forest and some rocky terrain, but they enjoy frequent exchanges of goods, knowledge, and people.
Corvo – although Irkinya is the smallest of the monarchies, Corvo is the weakest. Their lands boast little in terms of resources or viable farmland. They rely on their northern-most neighbor, Jurgari, for much of their daily and routine goods. Despite being an obvious candidate for invasion, Ivos’ countries treat Corvo with respect and provide assistance when possible (and of course, when politically expedient). In classic FE trope fashion, the relatively resource-lacking Corvans have sought work in the industries of mercenarism and physical labor. It’s not that Corvans are particularly better fighters than the other nations’; they simply have an abundance of people willing to do the work.
Jurgari – the “Eldros of the West,” Jurgari’s vast woodlands and plains are ripe with natural resources and wildlife. Jurgari is known to produce and sell incredibly high quality clothing and weapons. The rest of Ivos purchases significant amounts of materials and goods from Jurgari’s comprehensive inventory. Of all of the Ivosian countries, Jurgari provides the most aid to Corvo, given their close proximity and shared heritage (they were one country in the past). This strain inhibits the Jurgari economy from rivaling Eldros’, but Jurgari is by no means in a difficult fiscal position.
Crodolia – a nation with a rather crude reputation. Crodolians are said to be impatient, brusque, and even unhygienic. Their northern climate is not as harsh as Qorlin’s, given their general region of residence to be south of the Narv Range of mountains, rather than being nestled inside of it like Qorlin. Though they arguably lack sophistication, they are shrewd traders and craftspeople. Rumors of governmental corruption are rampant.
Credits
SpoilerGeneral/guides:
Operator0G playtested the hack on hard mode and reported many issues, providing invaluable
feedback and notes
IS/Nintendo, for developing and funding the game
7743, for FEBuilderGBA, the FF ‘agas’, and providing unlimited free tech support
TLP, Requiem, R2R, OCA
FEU site and Discord, for troubleshooting help, ideas, and information
ZoramineFae, for entertaining my annoying idea and providing a few tileset edits
Shin/Klokinator, for managing the Google Drive & animations website
TheFlyingMinotaur, Character Creator
VonIthipathachai, for their guide on splicing via CC
Sme’s Eventing Guide
Sme’s Music Insertion Guide
DerTheVaporeon’s Tile Insertion GuideAssets:
Russel Clark (Mercenary F)
Jubby, fuzz94 (Myrmidon, short hair)
Cybaster (Trueblade)
Pikmin1211, Maiser6, Skitty, GabrielKnight (Cath + Knife)
Keks_Krebs, Peerless, SD9K, The_Big_Dededester (Assassin with bow M)
Keks_Krebs, Beccarte, SD9K (Assassin with bow F)
Temp, Black Mage, Wan (Rogue F)
Waleed (Recruit M)
Alusq (Improved Soldier 2.0 M, Deserter)
Alusq, Maiser6 (Improved Soldier 2.0 F)
TBA, Spud (Halberdier 2.0 M)
Mercenary Lord, NYZGamer, Pikmin1211, Maiser6 (Dragoon v2)
MK404 (Fighter)
Jeorge_Reds (Archer, Lyn-style)
Nuramon (Villager M and F, Dread Fighter M, Marshall map sprite, Soldier Red mug, Marksman F, Armored Wyvern Lord)
eCut (Non-Sacaen Nomad M)
Pikmin1211, Maiser6 (Non-Sacaen Nomadic Trooper)
Salvaged (Knight)
IS, Hairyblob, Maiser6 (Zephiel)
TBA, DerTheVaporeon, Nuramon (Shield v2 + cape)
Kenpuhu, Aruka, Nuramon (Grand Palain)
Flasuban, eCut (Helmet-less Wyvern Rider M)
Red Bean, Jeorge_Reds (Priestess Celica, Princess Celica)
Cipher Lee, DerTheVaporeon, Nuramon (Greil Hero)
IS, Black Mage, Temp, Wan, Eldritch Abomination, Orihara_Saki (Bard Elffin)
JonoTheRed (Supplier)
Pikmin1211 (Pupil F)
Solum (Mage Long-Hair F)
Greentea, Nuramon (Limstella)
MrNight, DerTheVaporeon (Patriarch)
Temp, Shin19 (Hoodless Shaman)
Aruka, Kenpuhu (Sword Lyon)
Eldritch Abomination, Shin19 (Generic Necromancer)
Pikmin1211, GabrielKnight, Maiser6, Lisandra_Brave, TBA (Troubadour M)
IS, Teraspark, Aruka, Kenpuhu, Seal (Mage Knight M)
Leo_link (Dark Dragon)
BwdYeti (Arcthunder)
Melia (Nomadic-looking red haired guy with feather and bandana guy with scar)
Thunder_Mage (Black Lightning)
Golden Sun, Mikey_Seregon (Glacies, Tempest)
Mikey_Seregon (Hail, Thunder DS, Tornado, Tempest)
Seal (Hellfire)
Arch (Thoron, Tornado)
SquareEnix (Holy) – it’s listed as SE in the repo, was this also 7743?
SHYUTERz (Dark Breath)
St jack, FF5 (Flare)
RobertFYP (Assassin F map sprite)
Sephie (short hair Myrmidon map sprite)
Agro (Merecnary F map sprite)
Falsuban (Soldier F map sprite)
N426 (Supplier map sprite)
HyperGammaSpaces (Grand Paladin map sprite)
Pikmin1211, L95, DertheVaporeon (Great Knight alt map sprite)
Ash3wl, L95, Dominus_Vobiscum (Mage F FE4 style Thunder)
L95 (Swordmaster F class card)
Lenh (Evil Tactician mug)
Obsidian (Sailor lady mug)
NICKT (Salvage 1 mug)
LaurentLacroix (Soldier F mug)
FEier (Staff guy mug)
AmBrosiac (#5 mug)
DertheVaporeon (#9 mug)
BatimatheBat (FE6 evil mug)
Zmr (#1 mug)
GenericPretsel (Skeleton mug)
P33RL355 (Human Kishuna mug)
Flasuban (Mugshot 1)
GabrielKnight (Weapon/item icons)
Ereshkigal (Weapon/item icons)Patches:
16 tracks/12 sounds, Agro/Brendor
All Instrument, Blazer
Disable Prep Store for a Particular Map, 7743
Change Battle BGM By Chapter, 7743
Continue Battle BGM Between Map and Combat, 7743
Drumfix, circleseverywhere
Instantaneously move unit at specific place to another coord, 7743
Force Rescue, circleseverywhere
Show BrokenWall Effect, 7743
Silent Give Item, 7743
UNCM, Tequila
01command_hack, Hextator
48command_hack, Hextator
Switch Portrait by class/flag/chapter, 7743
Set Victory BGM by Chapter, 7743
Anti-Huffman, Hextator
Range Display Fix, icecube
Skip world map fix, stan
Have multiple units seize, 7743
Skip the event using the opening world map, 7743
NIMAP, circleseverywhere
NIMAP2, Alusq
CSA_Creator_For_FE8U version 1 and 2, circleseverywhere
Prohibit Support Conversation under specific conditions, 7743
Muli Class Pick Skill, 7743
Add Event(s): Bulk Selling, Support Check, Get HP, Get Level, Get/Set Unit Status, Item Check, Lose Item, Force Drop to Event, GetKillerUnitID, Get/Set/ClearSupportLevel, Send unit’s all items to transporter – 7743
ExModularSave, Stan
Fix Dodge to Front Glitch, Snakey1
Change Weapon Range Text, 7743
Deny Deployment from Preparations, aera and 7743
Less Annoying Fog, Leonarth
Skip World Map Fix, Stan
Display All 8 Wranks, Kirb
MultiTileMarker Display multiple exit markers, 7743
Define multiple classes that can discover desert treasure, 7743
NarrowFont, Scraiza
PassiveBoosts (no-stack), Venno
Simple setting of Sacred Weapons 2, 7743
UnitActionRework, Stan
Change Effectiveness damage coefficient of the weapon, 7743Music:
Govzlegacy
The Hungarian Coverist
Bev Wooff
Tsu Ryu and Sailor Raika
Unknown
Guest -
17 hours ago, XRay said:
You might not think cars can be addicting, but people do spend exorbitant sums of money on cars. $1,000 a year on a gacha game is nothing compared to aftermarket upgrades on cars that can go into multiples of thousands of dollars. There is also a boom in auto sales right now due to low interest rates and better financing deals, and people have been going for more expensive cars over cheaper cars.
Just because the nature of the product is certain does not mean it cannot be addictive, and I do not think product certainty has any correlation to addictiveness. When you buy drugs from a drug dealer, you are pretty certain of what you will get, and drugs can be addictive.
"There are problems in X area" does not mitigate the fact that "there are problem in Y area." And if you really want to keep up this comparison: the nature of the auto market is inherently more expensive. Cars are more expensive than video games; it doesn't take a mathematician or economist to surmise that car "addiction" (or whatever you're referring to) is a more costly endeavor (on average) than participating in gacha. That said, you've spent more on gacha than I did on my last car, so your example is not totally accurate. I guess I had one of those "plebeian brands" that you noted before. Maybe I'll upgrade to "low end luxury" one of these days.
We can go back and forth with anecdotes about what people spend money on, but quoting random industries' marketing practices doesn't negate the nefariousness of gacha.
And 'uncertainty' is a component of the addiction for gacha, not the entire definition.
17 hours ago, XRay said:I agree that gacha machines do not encourage addictive behavior on the same scale as gacha games, but the fact that gacha machines are also uncertain means that uncertainty is less correlated to addiction than people think.
Physical loot boxes, Kinder Joy, LEGO's collectible minifigures, etc. all have uncertainty in their products, and that uncertainty is what makes those products appealing since you get a surprise each time. I would not call any these addictive either.
The fact that gacha machines are uncertain and don't have the same addictive potential as digital games does not affirm a lack of correlating relationship. Uncertainty alone doesn't constitute addiction, but it is undeniably one of various tools that are used to facilitate addiction the case of gacha gaming.
17 hours ago, XRay said:Again, TCGs might not be addictive to you, but it is still has a massive following. Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokémon has had immense success in translating their physical card game into a digital one. Besides ban lists and card release schedules, the only primary difference between the physical and digital formats is that you cannot obtain cards from a secondary market.
In my opinion, the success of gacha games has less to do with "nefariousness" and more to do with ease of access and lower barrier of entry.
And I definitely do not agree with regulating physical TCGs at all.
The lack of barrier of entry for sure is a big reason for gacha's market size. No doubt there.
The point of a TCG is not to facilitate addictive behavior; at least, that's not how it started and was treated over the last few decades. Yes, TCG and all businesses also want you to spend your money on their product/service. We can reiterate this point in every post, but it is not the same thing as purposefully designing a service that produces and cultivates addictive behavior on the scale that gacha does.
The point of gacha is to encourage recurring purchases and addictive behavior. That is not the fundamental purpose of TCG. TCG (namely, digital) and gacha have blurred in the last 5 years or so, and I don't know enough about the individual IPs or games to say which are genuinely trying to be a TCG vs. which are gacha in disguise.
My suggestion for regulation would be for these digital TCGs that lean into gacha mechanics.
17 hours ago, XRay said:Yes. Games designed by teachers and learning experts are not exactly fun nor engaging. Games made by actual game developers can grab children's attention in ways teachers and educators never can. I learned more about history on my own than school ever taught me, and that is due in part to video games driving that interest and curiosity.
The entire point of all businesses is to goad customers into spending money. Gacha game developers are no different than regular companies in this regard. Apple has a cult following, and I do not see anyone complaining about that. Apple products are not definitely not better than their competitors, and I would argue that it is generally worse for the average user due to restrictions from having a really closed system.
First point, is your conjecture. And you're probably mostly wrong anyway. The point of making a game as a learning tool for a child is to make learning fun and engaging for the child. Not sure why these games aren't made by "actual developers" according to you, but purely recreational games are not substitutes for learning tools. You can still learn from purely recreational games, certainly. And btw, many "actual game developers" have also worked on non-gaming projects - that includes learning games. Software devs often have various experiences throughout their career - Larian for example, has made several children's/learning games in addition to their Divinity series.
Yes, I know: businesses want to earn money and marketing exists. You're saying, "it's all business, anything goes." But the government disagrees regarding behavior that is addictive and destructive. It's a false equivalence to suggest marketing an iPhone is exactly the same as the meticulously abusive mechanics that constitute gacha.
Apple products are a fad though, I agree there. I do complain about that, but most people don't want to hear it. Apple's stringent management of their environment is off-putting, and more problematically, it presents problems for the customer/user (like having to go through a stupidly workaroundy process to install apps on my iPod). I tolerate my iPod Touch, but for something like a phone or computer, I'd never bind myself to Apple's chains.
17 hours ago, XRay said:I have personally spent probably close to $10,000 over the last several years on Fire Emblem Heroes, although the bulk of my spending was in the first year. That may seem excessive to you, but I am fine with it.
I can just as easily say any hobby is addictive by pointing to hard core fans spending thousands of dollars on something. A two thousand point army in Warhammer 40,000 can easily cost around $1,000, and for hard core collectors who have been building their armies over the years, that could easily go up tens of thousands.
And going back to the car example, I can just as easily say that people spending $70,000 or $80,000 are being duped by car companies when a $20,000 or $30,000 model will easily do for regular every day driving. Hell, I can even argue car companies convincing people to buy new cars are completely immoral and killing the planet, and people should go buy used cars instead for an even cheaper price.
No, you can't just as easily say any hobby is addictive to the same degree. Again, you are suggesting this is all equivalent. Gacha is not ubiquitous to selling a car or guitar or washing machine or whatever. It is equivalent to gambling. Any hobby could be addictive, depending on the person. But saying unregulated/unrestricted gambling is OK because collecting socks could be addictive too, isn't really a tenable defense.
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2 hours ago, XRay said:
Car companies absolutely and undeniably target children too. Hot Wheels are some of the most popular toys for kids, and there are plenty of racing games featuring super cars as well as lesser cars from more plebeian brands. Car companies groom their customers from a young age. Cannot afford a Ford GT straight out of college? How about settling for a crappier Mustang?
Yep, that is marketing. Many companies engage in marketing that includes children as a target demographic. But selling kids miniature Lambos does not produce a meaningful potential for addiction. Gacha genuinely does target children by using knowingly deceptive and addictive practices.
And car companies offer a product with certainty - you know you are getting a car, and you know roughly what specs/history it has. If you want to believe your Mustang is a mini GT, go for it. If you grow up playing Need for Speed and want to outfit your Toyota with a body kit to look like an Aston, sure, do it. There's nothing terribly deceptive or wrong about any of that. But the nature of gacha is to encourage you to continuously spend money because the company withholds details about what you are receiving and applies practices to encourage continuous spending. It is purposefully made to be ambiguous and sometimes even misleading. Car marketing (and marketing in general) can be misleading, ambiguous, and deceptive as well. But the nature of the product is generally certain, and the potential for addiction is not present.
2 hours ago, XRay said:Car companies absolutely and undeniably target children too. Hot Wheels are some of the most popular toys for kids, and there are plenty of racing games featuring super cars as well as lesser cars from more plebeian brands. Car companies groom their customers from a young age. Cannot afford a Ford GT straight out of college? How about settling for a crappier Mustang?
TCGs probably should be regulated to some degree, if there is a problem. But I have a few ideas regarding why it is not immediately pressing/dangerous. Since the TCG market is pretty small compared to gacha, the conversation revolves around the far more sizable and growing market. And the act of playing a TCG is not really addictive on a general scale - the games are made to be played with a skill-level in mind. The way gacha operates is far more nefarious and large-scale. The fundamental design of a gacha game is to push the user to keep spending money. While you can spend a decent bit of cash on TCGs, their inherent goal is to facilitate a skill-based game.
$0.25 arcade machines don't encourage addictive behavior on the same scale that gacha does. Physical machines are generally limited by how much you can spend: 25 cents at a time while the venue is open. Sure, you could rack up a bill of a few hundred dollars probably, if you literally spent all day doing it. But is that realistic? How big of a problem is that in society? This question goes for the TCG example as well. Yes, the potential for addiction is there, and there is uncertainty to your purchase. But in practice, do we see the same frequency of addictive behavior and potential destructiveness in TCGs that we do in gacha?
2 hours ago, XRay said:That is literally every toy and video game company. Parents are the ones holding the purses and wallets, so it is not like children can gamble with real money anyways. And if children want to participate more in gacha games, they still have to go through parents regardless. At least free to start gachas can be played for free and can encourage kids to learn about resource management and gain patience.
Yes, every toy and game company markets to children. But when you see an ad for the new Elder Scrolls game, you know exactly what your $60 is getting you. When you see an ad for the new dinosaur figure, you know what you're getting. There is no uncertainty and no real impetus for addiction in these scenarios.
Even if parents give a child $20 a week to spend, I don't think it should be permissible to allow someone under 21 to spend it on gambling; whether that's physical or digital. You wouldn't tell your middle-schooler to go spend their allowance at the casino, right?
And aren't almost all of these gacha games free-to-start? That's one of their prime marketing directives:
"Hey! It's free to play! No, you don't have to spend any money on it!" <4 hours of gameplay later>
"To continue you need to pay" or "If you want a chance at being competitive, you have to pay"Learn about resource management and gain patience? There are games designed by teachers and learning experts that do that - this is not that. Are you really suggesting the use of gacha games to teach kids about resource management and patience? The entire point of these games is to goad the player into acquiring more digital resources via real money purchasing, because the games wear down your patience in all the ways that their market research and clinical psychologists tell them will be effective.
Even if you forget about children, these games are made to be addictive. A few posts up, someone shares that they've spent "at least $500" on gacha in the last month, that they know it's sort of wrong, but they can't stop doing it. This is a singular case, but it is representative of behavior for a significant amount of people. In this case, it sounds like everything is mostly OK and the person is not overextending themselves financially (and I don't mean to levy genuine addiction accusations on them - but this highlights the genre's designedly addictive nature).
Casino gambling is regulated because of its addictive nature. Why is digital gambling getting a pass? Online gambling is not even legal for US companies to operate (though US citizens technically can gamble online via websites registered elsewhere). But overall, the government has a pretty clear message about participating in gambling (due to its purposefully addictive nature, much like gacha): only in licensed jurisdictions/venues, and only for people of a certain age.
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49 minutes ago, OdysseyNeptune said:
So I'm playing this hack, and I gotta say, it's pretty good. However, Wakka's Shoot's description is "Piercing."
What does it pierce? It's not ignoring the enemy's Defense, nor is it piercing through an enemy.
EDIT: Just found out it deals effective damage against Behemoths. Still, the description isn't very helpful.Just as an FYI, OP has switched gears and is now working on a Pokemon in FE8 hack. I much prefer the FFX project myself, but I don't think he'll be updating this or doing much work on it any time soon. The Pokemon thread is on FEU.
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19 hours ago, XRay said:
I am fine with gachas and gambling in games. I do not like it when people tell me how I should spend my money or impose unnecessary regulations on how businesses operate. No one is forcing anyone to drink alcohol or smoke hookah, and no one is forcing anyone to play gacha games either. If people do not like the business model, then they can just avoid games that use that model.
I can just as easily argue that car companies are much more financially harmful by selling low end "luxury" cars like Lexus, Mercedes, Lincolns, etc. to people who have no business owning one and should save that money instead. Those cars are impressing no one and they are worth shit after a few years, and all they do is give people a slight adrenaline rush at the time of purchase just like gambling. Compared to the financial damage that the car industry is inflicting on the entire human population, the gacha game industry is nothing.
People tell others how to spend their money all of the time, both overtly and covertly. We are constantly being bombarded with marketing, conventional cultural wisdom, and basic financial instruction - all of which attempt to manipulate us into doing something with our money; whether that is buying one product over another, not over-consuming alcohol, advocating for using a savings account and/or investing, etc.
"There are problems in other areas," is not a tenable rebuttal for investigating the question of "to what degree of wrongness exists in this topic?" Sure, some people buy cars or houses or boats or whatever, that they can't really afford. Additionally, there is a difference here: gacha genuinely does target children - car companies, banks, etc. do not. Would Mercedes sell one of their cars to a 12 year old?
And just for fun: it looks like car companies generated $280b revenue last year - mobile gaming generated $50b (which was 60% of total gaming) and is projected to steadily increase for the next 5-10 years. The various projections range kind of wildly, from $60b to $130b in the next 5 years, but either way, it's not an inconsequential market.
18 hours ago, XRay said:Educating teens about gambling is up to the parents' responsibility. Government should not force companies to babysit kids for parents. Kids also should not have their own credit cards in the first place, and the fault lies squarely with the parents if kids manages to obtain that credit card information to play gachas or gamble. If parents decide to give their kids debit cards, the onus of financial responsibility is on the parents, and it is up to them to monitor and control the flow of money, not companies.
I agree that some level of regulation is necessary, but I do not support implementing harsh regulation to punish something just because people do not like it on arbitrary moral grounds. In my eyes, the backlash against gachas and gambling in videogames is a witch hunt. Dragging children into the subject is a poor argument since children should not even have the financial resource to play gachas or gamble in the first place, so I think the children argument is just a load of bull. Calls to ban gachas and gambling in videogames is an extreme overreaction and onerous regulatory overreach. If people are really thinking about protecting children from gachas and gambling, the proper way to regulate that is to make two factor authentication mandatory for digital purchases, and not wholesale blanket banning an entire legitimate revenue model.
Then, why is gambling illegal in most states and for those (generally) under 21? The government stepped in and made it illegal. But it should just be up to the parents? The government feels otherwise. Are gambling laws instituted because of "arbitrary moral grounds"? Why is gambling in games different than gambling in a casino?
Agreed about the debit/CCs though - giving your kid a blank cheque and thinking they won't spend it all is pretty irresponsible. That said, the addictive nature of gambling can be difficult to navigate, especially for a child. Society and government tend to view addictive behavior with some responsibility on the individual, and some shared responsibility on the entity that facilitated the addiction. Generally, both are regulated by law. And the facilitator is often the party that gets the harsher punishment.
We are not the ones who brought children into this. The game designers and marketers who are literally sitting in meeting rooms trying to figure out how to make the most money from their targeted demographic are the ones who brought children into this. Fortnite's latest marketing campaign aggressively targets children and paints Apple as some draconian, overly-greedy corporation that is unfairly treating Epic, and Epic is pretending that they're some noble crusader for acquiring financial autonomy on iOS. #FreeFortnite is sickeningly targeting children, all because Epic wants more money than they are getting now.
I agree that an outright ban is not warranted. I like the 2FA requirement, but there's a reason companies are averse to mandating this (same goes for online games with cheating problems) - it's another barrier to purchase/play. Companies don't care about your safety or security (unless they are legally bound to) if it cuts into their bottom line. Perhaps requiring age verification of 18 or (ideally) 21, would be prudent, for games/apps that contain real-money gambling mechanics. That's what we do for casino gambling. Why is digital gambling different?
6 hours ago, XRay said:That is the fault of the rating boards, not gaming companies. Calls for banning gachas and gambling in games is an unjustified and unwarranted overreaction.
The ESRB and ESA were created by and are still largely overseen by the big game publishers. Talk about conflict of interest, eh?
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I'm probably in the minority, but I use FE units based on if I: A) like their class/animations, and then B) if I like their character. I don't really pay attention to which classes/units are "A tier" or the most usable by strategy standards, because honestly most of the FE games can be played basically however you want with decent success. Optimizing a party is sort of optional.
When I am allowed to post in Fan Projects, I'll be posting my completed FE8 hack - the main character is a myrmidon lord.
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10 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:
Really liked the return to the medieval-esque setting. Also crystals being back is nice thing. I have high hopes for this game as I think Yoshi P is the one in charge and he did a great job with 14. I simply hope there are party members, and if there are, I want a cast with variety. After 10 the quality of the party did fall a bit for me. But, I don't have a good PC and I don't intend to buy a PS5 so I guess no 16 for me.
He is a producer. Apparently the guy who led Stormblood (I think that's the 14 expansion? I haven't played much of 14) is the director of 16.
Necrosis Among the Living (FE8, complete)
in Fan Projects
Posted
The links should be working now. Let me know if there are any issues.