Deva Ashera
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Posts posted by Deva Ashera
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On 6/30/2017 at 2:14 PM, Folt said:
I think there's a benefit to it in at least three ways:
- Easier to fit into the narrative.
- Easier to write relationships between both major and minor characters, not only because characters coming from the same game can have pre-established relationships with one another, but also because more restricted cross-game relationships can also make for easier writing of those.
- Class and weapon balance. Awakening and Fates's classes are extremely varied and fill multiple roles and are at times rather different from the equivalent class of older Fire Emblems.
Yeah, and a 4th one as well, we're they to include other games, they'd likely have to include the main lord or lords from each title..or at least feel like they'd have to..giving us more sword users and fill the roster with mostly main lords while having only three games as the focus allows them a larger pool of characters to pull from, ironically enough. They'd have more freedom with DLC character choices though, most likely...even if I'm expecting mostly lords (Ike, Lyn, Roy, and Hector, for example)
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On 6/28/2017 at 10:55 AM, Captain Karnage said:
I'm still salty with their decision to only use characters from those 3 games
I'm pretty exicted to see how they can make a healer fight
I honestly kinda expected it to only be those three games..if only because Hyrule Warriors initially only used characters featured in Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword..along with OCs and OC renditions of reoccurring characters Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, and Impa.
I fully expect to see more Fire Emblem games get their characters included as DLC, perhaps even with DLC storylines since they naturally won't have a Legends style port this time.
It's probably just easier to focus on three games to build a nice roster rather then trying to pull from every game in the series and try to fit them into the narrative.
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I figured male Robin would be there to work with female Corrin. Now to see if alt gender costumes will be implemented by default or DLC..I still feel it will happen regardless, either from devs themselves or fan demand. If not, no big deal..I got my fCorrin.
Glad to see Lucina, was kind of expecting to, wasn't expecting Lissa though.
I wonder if the devs are counting Fates as one or two/three games..I mean in regards to roster consideration since the rosters for Birthright and Conquest each kind of matched Shadow Dragon and Awakening..if I recall correctly.
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On 6/25/2017 at 10:58 PM, Mox said:
Male Robin seems to be the more canon option to me so I feel that he's more likely to get in than female Robin. I think this is especially true as female Corrin got picked, it would make sense to put male Robin in to balance this.
To be fair, male Corrin seemed to be the more 'canon' one too, based on Fates' cutscenes using male as the default model (most clear in the transformation scene) just like Awakening did with Robin.
I was actually looking through my Art of Fire Emblem Awakening book and noticed male avatar was ranked 5th best male while female avatar was ranked 3rd best female by (Japanese) fans.
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10 hours ago, MediocreLee said:
Lol I love that art just for the implication that she went to sleep a child and awoke an adult.
Though if the child costume was resized to accurately fit adult Tiki it would also look really cute.
Speaking of Tiki..I hope we have any Awakening characters comment on meeting Tiki as a child.
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7 hours ago, Folt said:
But Jeanne and Rosa aren't alt costumes: They're their own separate characters with their own differences from Bayonetta. You also forget that while Warriors games aren't competitive fighting games, they're still combo-heavy and with aspects that can determine how good they are in comparison to the other if an alt. makes the character I'm playing as worse, you can bet that I won't use that alt. very much.
Besides, if costumes are going to be disabled during a mode, there'd best be a better reason for it than the one you've given me here. I don't see why they should disable it considering Hyrule Warriors didn't.
Yes, they are, but they both mesh over Bayonetta's skeleton during cutscenes 1:1 and use the exact same movesets with only certain effects disabled or enabled. They are essentially glorified costumes and serve my point just the same that you can have a different shape to the model, particularly it's face, but still work 1:1 in regards to animations and movements, including in complicated cutscenes, as long as they model itself has very few differences, which the alt genders fit.
The point I'm getting at is that there would be absolutely NO differences in animations, movements, etc. It would be exactly like with Smash Bros. and Bayonetta if alt costumes were implemented. They would cause absolutely no issues from a gameplay or animations standpoint. The only question would be if they would be allowed to appear in cutscenes for a humorous 'lol wrong voice' spin on a scene or if they would just default back to costume slot 1 in those instances.
I honestly feel it would be incredibly stupid of Tecmo Koei and Intelligent Systems to choose to leave out the alt genders of Corrin and Robin when every other, non-amiibo, appearance has had them both appear from the initial games to Smash to Cipher to Heroes. Leaving them out now when it's such an easy thing to do would just seem wrong. Note that I also do not feel they are different enough to warrant their own slots. Any differences to how they would fight is subjective purely off their personalities (what little differences their are) when in-game their abilities have always been the same.
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On 6/18/2017 at 8:53 PM, Luankachu said:
A few ideas I had for the characters who were already confirmed. I kinda expect most them to either show up as DLC or not at all, though.
Chrom:
Spring!Chrom;
Great Lord armor;
Risen King (Cipher);
Exalt (Cipher);
Mirage version(TMS♯FE);
A few palette swaps, probably based on Frederick, past Lords, Lissa, Emmeryn and/or his potential wives.
Maybe have Lucina as a model swap since they are supposed to have the same fighting style?
Marth:
Palette swaps from Smash Bros;
No Pants Marth;
Pallete swaps based on Caeda, Alm, Kris, and his descendants (Chrom, Lissa, Emmeryn, Owain/Odin, Ophelia);
Phantom Marth from using his Amiibo in SoV;
Super Saiyan
ItsukiMarth from TMS♯FECorrin:
Much like Cia has variants based on whether she is masked or not, I think we'll get variants for her as M!Corrin;
Hoshido Noble and Nohr Noble armors;
Palette swaps based on Mikoto, Anankos, Lilith, Ryoma, Azura, Xander, and Robin;
Palette
Kana as a model swap? I mean... It's extremely unlikely and probably won't happen, but I'm kinda having way too much fun thinking of new costumes that likely won't ever happen.
Ryoma:
Sumeragi armor;
Samurai armor from Cipher.
Hoshidan King armor from Cipher;
Wyvern Lord armor from Cipher;
Palette swaps based on his siblings, his retainers, other Samurai in Hoshido, and Xander;
Palette swaps based on the default player unit (blue), enemy unit (red), and allied unit (green) armors from Fates.
Xander:
Spring!Xander;
Cavalier armor from Cipher;
Nohrian King armor from Cipher;
Onmyoji clothes from Cipher;
Pirate!Xander from the Fates DLC;
Xander in Leo's Dark Knight armor;
Palette swaps based on his siblings, his retainers, other Cavaliers in Nohr, other Camuses in the series, Garon, and Ryoma;
Palette swaps based on the default player unit (blue), enemy unit (red), and allied unit (green) armors from Fates;
Rowan:
Palette swap based on Alfonse?
Lianna:
Palette swap based on Sharena?
Anna (Not confirmed as playable yet, but she likes those profit margins!):
Heroes!Anna;
Fates!Anna;
Awakening!Playable!Anna;
Awakening!Merchant!Anna;
Summer Scramble!Anna;
Hotspring Scramble!Anna
Five Anna Firefight!Anna;
Apotheosis!Anna;
Jack Frost!Shio (Otherwise known as TMS♯FE!Anna);
Black Frost!Shio;
Tiki (She has an Amiibo, so she has a pretty good chance):
Palette swaps based on other Manaketes in the series, including her adult self;
Tiki's costumes from TMS♯FE;
Palette swap based on Mar-Mar, Say'ri, and Robin;
I think child Tiki dressed in adult Tiki's costume could be cute.
There's also the possibility of her getting Nowi's outfit..similar to what her Spotpass character got in Awakening and Zelda got with Ilia's clothes in Hyrule Warriors.
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19 hours ago, Folt said:
1. Smash and Tekken don't have that issue because the voicework needed is not as extensive compared to a more cutscene-heavy game. They also don't have to do much with the models other than make sure they play as intended for the fights (and the victory animations).
2-3. Indeed. They're basically the same character or reincarnations of the same character after all. And as for Smash and Tekken, See point 1. This game however however features much more extensive animating and voicework which worked for the HW alts since they kept the 1:1 animations and moveset, which also allows them to appear in cutscenes which I actually thought was a pretty neat touch (though not all of them transitioned as nicely). The way alts worked for Smash Bros. and Tekken won't necessarily be the best or the most practical option for this game.
4. Dark Link, when things come down to it, is pretty much an all-black mute Link. And that is not very difficult to implement at all for anything.
Essentially the same thing that they need here, honestly. They can, as I've said many times now, code in a flag to make the character model default to the default costume if an incompatible costume is used for it.
As for any other animation issues you believe could happen due to different facial models, Bayonetta 1 & 2 already shown that isn't much of an issue by allowing you to play and appear as Jeanne or Rosa in place of Bayonetta in both gameplay and cutscenes..and I'm pretty sure Bayonetta 1 & 2 have more complicated cutscenes (and arguably gameplay) then the Warriors series has. The face would really be the only big difference since Smash shown that Robin and Corrin's different genders can have the same skeletal proportions with no issues. That's actually a bigger issue for competitive fighter games like Smash then one like Warriors where fighters HAVE to be 1:1 while Warriors can flub it a little since there's no competitive aspect where every single frame counts and one miniscule difference could effect a ton.
Also, you are literally only looking at the Story side of things, which they could just disable costumes on if it was actually a big deal, leaving them for the Free Play Mode and the larger, more time-consuming Coliseum Mode.
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7 hours ago, Arthur97 said:
I think we're wasting our time. She seems dead set on alts whether it makes sense or not.
There isn't any 'sense' to make or not make. You are only focusing on how it would affect the Story Mode, ostensibly one of the smallest modes in a Warriors game, and I've already given very easy ways to fix that tiny issue. I'll list them again since you seem to willfully ignore or disregard them.
1) Flag said Alt so that it will not show up in cutscenes, only in gameplay.
2) Only allow default costumes to be used in Story Mode (but allow them in Free Play Mode).
3) Keep as is for a 'humorous' effect of the wrong voice coming out. This would be similar to using Jeanne or Rosa in the Story Mode of Bayonetta 2 (or just Jeanne in Bayonetta 1) where they appear in Bayonetta's place in cutscenes but with Bayonetta's voice (and also end up with some scenes having two Jeannes or Rosas). It's not something most people make a big deal out of because they KNOW how it's supposed to be.
8 hours ago, Folt said:You could do those, but 1. Hyrule Warriors uses grunts. That's a considerably easier hurdle to cross if alternate costumes are in play, and as far as I know, all of the alternate costumes in Hyrule Warriors is essentially the character dressing up as another (whether it's a previous incarnation or a different character) or in a state of lacking certain pieces of headwear (when they aren't simply being palette swaps). 2. All of Link's costumes are based on his adult form, model-wise. 3. HW!Link's facial features remain on each of those costumes which is particularly jarring for the OoT, TP, and SS costumes. 4. Dark Link (as separate from Link) is treated as an entity that shares the moves of the original, but has Officer level (Lizalfos, Darknut, Hylian Captain, etc.) health to justify having more of them on the battlefield at the same time.
1) It still wouldn't cause much issue, I feel. I mean, Smash & Tekken haven't had any issues with character/gender alts. It's also due to there not being any characters that can appear as different genders.
2) That's due to having to keep the moveset 1:1 with no animation hick ups. Smash did the same for all gender/character alts. This is why both Robins, the Koopalings/Bowser Jr, both Wii Fit Trainers, both Corrins, and others like Lucina & Marth all have the same proportions as the other(s).
3) They re-used the face models to aid in keeping animations consistent since the faces between Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Sheik, and Impa are all similar enough to past iterations not to matter much. Smash and Tekken both shown this isn't a hard issue to overcome.
4) I don't know where you are going with this, honestly. I'm simply saying that, technically, Link & Dark Link are different characters but you can use Dark Link, as a costume, in Story Mode.
I also think it'd be odd to have this be the only game where you can't play as either gender of Robin or Corrin (disregarding any amiibo appearances of Male Robin..since there is no female Robin amiibo).
4 hours ago, EricaofRenais said:Even though I always play as female Robin so I can marry Priam, I have always liked male Robin better in terms of character he just comes across better to me. So I think male Robin will be in and he is the Robin I want as well.
I kinda want female Robin default if only for the possibility of a female Robin amiibo being made for this game.
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I feel more fans would be disappointed by the lack of a gender alt then would be by a lack of cohesion in the story caused by playing the map using the opposite gender character since doing only that would have absolutely no effect on the story at all, it would only be like playing Free Play Mode or Co-Op in Hyrule Warriors with a character that wasn't there story-wise..which wasn't really all that concerning..more humorous then anything.
Heck, for all we know, Robin could end up like Ruto, Agitha, Zant, or Ghirahim and not be playable in the story even if they take part in it, or be like Toon Link in Hyrule Warriors Legends and not even be part of the story, making this all a moot point either way.
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17 hours ago, Arthur97 said:
Ah, but they are different.
Also, it's just weird and inconsistent to have mismatching characters. I know you seem to disregard story mode, but it needs to have cohesion. Actually, having the wrong portrait would be even worse.
I'm not against female Robin's inclusion, but I just think that it should not be via alternate characters since it messes with the story and I just don't like the idea of them swapping out (unless they actually add a DKC style animation for when they do it). It makes no sense from a narrative point, and if they do go that route, then they need to be locked to default and costumes only during story mode.
Not in regards for this.
Again, not really. It's not really any different then Link appearing as Dark Link during gameplay. The mismatched picture would only appear at the bottom of the screen and affect nothing else. The vast majority of people would have no issue with this at all, they would know it's just a costume.
There is no way they would have both Robins or Corrins as anything but alternate costumes. They are too similar in abilities to earn their own slots and having both as their own slots would likely only cause annoyance from fans. I play games for the story, but costumes tend to be absent from that. It's not like it made 'narrative sense' for Link to be dressed in his OoT, TP, SS, LoZ, Dark Link, or Fierce Diety looks or dressed as a post man or for Zelda to be dressed as Ilia in cutscenes or gameplay and yet you could do those.
Most people are smart enough not to be confused or bothered by a costume swap since they, of course, know what the default is.
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Male & Female Robin aren't really THAT different..they only show any real differences in their support conversations, not really the story of Awakening.
As has been said though, the story and supports do not matter in this as the simple work around, if there is an issue, is to simply default all story & support related elements to use the default Robin model, this works regardless of which gender is chosen as default and allows both forms to be playable for the majority of the game, which will undoubtedly be Coliseum Mode, not story mode/supports, which is honestly only a very tiny part of what the game will be, especially once the possibility of DLC is brought up. This would also allow Tecmo Koei to use either gender Robin or Corrin as foes for Coliseum Mode missions for a bit more variety.
Beyond that, it also wouldn't be that jarring during story missions since the default Robin's/Corrin's picture would show for talking parts of story missions..and most players are smart enough to know that the default one is x gender.
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It's a simple fix. In the support conversations and cutscenes they could use the default character model/costume if a particular costume is 'flagged' in the code as incompatible with the scene/support. It's really not that hard to do, honestly.
Also, supports will likely be done Fire Emblem style with mostly still shots of the characters and a dialogue box (fully voiced or not) and the alt likely won't be shown in those scenes even if it's something that still works (such as Great Lord Chrom or Nohr Noble Corrin).
All in all the costume won't likely affect much of anything, similarly to how such costumes didn't affect Hyrule Warriors (such as the Dark Link costume). If they actually let such a mundane obstacle keep alt gender costumes out even when it's something easily fixed, like stated above, then that's just disapointing.
Additionally, if it IS somehow a big issue in story, then they could make it so gender/character alts only work in Coliseum Mode.
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16 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:
I think we'll get the FE Amiibo characters in the vanilla game for sure, both so they can do a second super-limited-quantity rerun of said Amiibo and because those characters are so popular. The only Amiibo characters outside of the three games they're supposedly focusing on would be Roy and Ike, so it's not like they'd be stretching things that much.
Honestly, some may get new amiibo..like they may use PoR Ike for Warriors and give us a new Ike amiibo with that design. I wouldn't be surprised if they make new amiibo for some of them in general. Probably not f Corrin though since they used the same pose as the Smash amiibo (aka her Fates pose) albeit with the chainsaw Yato and covered thighs for the Smash one.
4 hours ago, Lord-Zero said:I can see Spring Chrom or Mirage Chrom (controlling Itsuki while Mirage Chrom would be more of a JoJo Stand with plenty of lightning attacks and music) being locked behind the Chrom amiibo. Same with UTA-loid Tiki locked behind the Tiki amiibo with a moveset based on music kinda like Marin in HW Legends. Chances are they'll just drop weapons for those specific characters while others would give random stuff. As for other FE characters that have an amiibo like Alm and Celica...probably stuff like Alm always giving you a random weapon (like the Emperor's Lance or the Valentian Falchion) or a new alt palette for a possible Walhart while Celica would always give gold in random amounts and/or Celica's palette to Walhart.
Honestly, I think that the Mirage forms of Chrom and Tiki would just be costumes. None of the weapons in Hyrule Warriors changed characters' costumes and that would keep that costume from being usable with said weapon.
Outside of maybe costumes, I don't think we'll see anything really referencing Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE. I am hoping the design rights belong to Intelligent Systems though, it could even be funny to see costume swaps, like Tharja wearing Kiria's default outfit.
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4 hours ago, Anomalocaris said:
They could just restrict them to their default sexes during the story for narrative purposes, and only allow for the opposite-sex alts in Free Play, Coliseum mode, ect. where it doesn't matter who the hell you're playing as.
Pretty much what I was thinking, honestly.
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5 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:
But those are costumes, we're talking alternate characters here. It doesn't make sense to have one character in a bond conversation and then another in another conversation. The Robins may be the same character, but they aren't the same "person." It just makes no sense to have two different entities sharing scenes or randomly switching out after cutscenes. It bears no consistency.
They can, again, default to the normal look during those conversations.
We also don't know how those are going to work in this title yet.
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On 6/14/2017 at 2:57 PM, Tsak said:
Warriors games have skipped localization steps in the past. where only the dialogue was translated in subtitles and no voice acting. I wouldn't be surprised, though treehouse is doing the localization of it i assume. So who knows, some of it is already translated currently as we could see in the demo, so it might be farther along than you might assume.
They made a big deal out of Fire Emblem Warriors being fully voiced during the E3 livestream though, so that won't likely happen.
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3 hours ago, Arthur97 said:
What about Lucina for Chrom like someone suggested? It just would not work. Especially if you have one character in the cutscenes and another in the actual battle. Unless they lock out alts for story altogether, I imagine that costumes are all we're getting.
Like I said, they could just default to the normal character model during cutscenes and even have that character appear in dialogue boxes during story missions if a character/gender alt is used.
It's not that jarring, it happens in Hyrule Warriors as well. After doing any story you can go into Free Play and use any character you'd like. Beyond that, it wouldn't be too jarring even in normal story mode because you know what character you chose to play as and the one chosen to play as usually doesn't have a role during the story mission. For example, if you chose to play as Zelda during the last story mission in Hyrule Warriors, Ruto will take Zelda's role even in the dialogue boxes changing all mention of Zelda to Ruto.
They could also disable costumes in story mode if they see it as an issue.
The story mode honestly won't be as much of a problem as it seems.
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Considering how many important and popular characters in Fire Emblem use Swords, I'm expecting to see more sword wielders than any other weapon type. I'm going to believe IS and TK at the moment and believe they won't totally dominate the roster, but I suspect they'll take up more of it.
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1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:
The main problem I see with alt characters is the story mode. For that, these characters will need to be, well, that character.
Only for the cutscenes, really. They could always put in a Flag for any gender/character alts to have it return to default if used or even keep it as is and call it 'comical' for the 'wrong' voice to come out lol
Granted, they could also write dialogue in such a way that attention is never called to Corrin or Robin's gender by other characters so that only their storyline voices need swapping.
Regardless, considering how the story is actually only a small part of any Warriors game, having something like that keep out something kind of defining like that would be a bit sad.
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I think Male Robin will be default, but I love Female Robin, so I hope she'll be a Smash style alt at least.
On 6/13/2017 at 8:39 PM, Anacybele said:I think it's more unfair that both genders of Corrin get Amiibo, but only the male Robin gets one. There ARE people that like female Robin and would buy her, Nintendo.
Honestly, I think that Nintendo isn't done with Smash amiibo. I wouldn't be surprised if we get other alts like FemRobin, Alph, Male Wii Fit Trainer, Shorts Samus, Underwear Shulk, etc. The Koopalings may not if only because they could just give them Mario Series amiibo figures.
There's also the possibility of FemRobin getting a FE Warriors amiibo if she does end up default.
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Corrin. FemCorrin is one of my favs, so of course I had to pick her. Marth is a close second though, followed by Chrom. I'm eager to see who we get next.
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13 hours ago, Cerberus87 said:
My post was a bit relaxed, but it frustrates me to see Koei restricted to 30 characters with so many people here asking for all kinds of characters. Everything you said is absolutely true, I kinda wanted to vent about the possibility of many people not getting what they wish for, though.
Understandable but that will happen with any Crossover game. Some people get everything they want, some get a bit, some get none. Usually you just have to hope some characters you like from whatever games are included are put in and be optimistic even if your total favs aren't. Most of the time these games will have at least one character someone will like.
I'm also amending my last guess, I think Lil Tiki will be the next reveal due to her getting an amiibo figure already revealed.
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11 hours ago, Anacybele said:
I've said my stance on that before, and my answer is NO. If IS thinks that Chrom in Ike's clothes would satisfy the MANY Ike fans out there, they're idiots. We like Ike because he's Ike, not for what he wears. I'm pretty sure a lot of us would much rather have Ike himself, not simply his outfit on someone else. And not all of us like Chrom either. I dislike him a lot, in fact. Ike being reduced to a costume for Chrom or anyone for that matter would just feel like IS is giving the middle finger to a LOT of people.
Also, Ike did get a Chrom alt in Smash. He has a palette swap that matches Chrom's colors.
That's not how I meant it. I didn't mean Chrom in Ike's clothes, I meant a character-alt more akin to how the Koopalings were alts for Bowser Jr. and Alph was an alt for Olimar in Smash Bros. The way I meant it Ike would have his own name, qoutes, voice, etc but just use the same Moveset as Chrom. I meant that for Smash as well with half of Ike's alts being Chrom. I'd actually accept Lucina as a character-alt swap for Marth in FE Warriors akin to how she was originally in Smash.
Granted, like I said, I'd prefer Ike get his own slot, but I'd also rather he be playable in some form then not at all. Though I doubt we won't get Ike as at least DLC.
Kotaku/Nintendo Dream info (Class Change/Promotion teased, uneven character distribution, and ...Donnel... ?)
in Fire Emblem Warriors
Posted · Edited by Deva Ashera
That likely doesn't include DLC into the equation in regards to non-SD/Awakening/Fates characters since they said similar about non-OoT/TP/SS characters for Hyrule Warriors..so not much change in my expectations.