Vhaltz

I should be reading because I doubt everybody is going to instantly change their minds and sheep me on scorri, but instead I'm writing up an extremely facetious post about how I'm scum and how my theoretical scumteam is supposed to win a role dependant game by bussing me full speed ahead D1. I'm not going to actually post it though because some dude is probably going to just quote it and say I claimed scum or claim that I'm abusing refuge in audacity and should die. But it's still really fun to let myself live the illusion for a little bit that none of the wagon on me is my fault and that everything else is what's dumb. I apologize. Seriously though, I really don't want to vote Eury or SB. Some of my other townreads or justifications for potentially scummy things I've made probably blow but I'm pretty sure I'm right about these two. I guess I'll look into Randa if that's the only other alternative, I haven't paid attention to his posts in the last few hours.

Btw Psych, can you quote the parts where Randa contradicted himself and switched opinions 180º?

...I guess you might not have been angry? idk why I perceived it like that. I still don't like everything else though. Scorri's followup is purely defensive when town should've been pushing their case. Everything she pulled up on me was weak and outdated aside from maybe the Kay thing in the case that she really meant it the way she says she does, which I have my doubts about. You haven't really answered why it constitutes scum intent if I just had no other better scumreads either. You called my other content "padding" and never refer to it once when actually reading through it should clearly demonstrate that I was looking for alternate suspects (Poly, Psych, Randa) yet always found Kay to be worthier of my vote.

I'm a vanilla town with a couple of powers. I only managed to crumb one of them due to being super busy answering everything and trying to get scumreads and not having time to come up with ways to make series of words spell out shit with the first letter of each. I have a Hacker card that causes my target to target themselves with whatever action they use. This was the only way I could think of crumbing it without being obvious. Psych pointing out that Prims could be crumbing vig makes this funnier but I think he was just calling a vig on my slot. Which actually makes me think Prims is probably town because I don't think he'd have doubts about being able to pull off a lynch on me today if he were scum. I have Boyscout's Handbook card that's just a tracker shot. And I have a third power that's really dumb, with usefulness that's extremely situational at best and I'm not planning on using it ever so idk if it's worth claiming.

Did I say you guys should lynch scorri? because you should. She was essentially wrong about her "original case" on me so she effectively retconned it and changed it to something different, threw in some reasons that were brought up in the wagon spike nearly 48 hours ago to cover up for it and put down her vote in fake anger to evade answering to why she wasn't already voting me with what she had brought up. claiming now

Wait I just remembered some of SB and kirsche's points were due to her priorities and whatnot. I still don't think she'd be so overzealous with her defense on me as scum though? All of this was early enough in the game that it was completely warranted in its context and you are blowing it out of proportion. 1) The vote on Shinori was weak when it was the first serious vote in the game? big fucking surprise. I'll tell you what's weak, painting precisely THIS as scummy within my gazillion posts is what is weak. 2) I voted you when there was nothing else that was scummy because the only other thing that people thought worth mentioning was me? big fucking surprise 3) I considered the wagon on Prims to be significant wagon for few hours into the game. Your perception isn't the universal standard for when something is significant or not. Do continue, your reasons to vote me are not only extremely outdated but are completely cherry-picked out of things that others have pointed out as opposed to building an original thought process who pretty much everybody else voting me has been able to do. Your outlook on the latter part of my play amounts to zero outside "Kay is generally inactive you're wrong", painting it as scummy just because I have few scumreads and have to stick with what I consider to be scum. I could've easily voted Poly or Psych when I brought out legitimate points on them but didn't because I actually give a damn that my scumreads are somewhat reliable. I don't buy your turnaround on the "precisely because you followed up on Kay", it completely contradicts what you were saying earlier. "his vote on Kay, at least I think, isn't especially great either since it essentially boils down to "your reasons for voting me are bad, must be scum" and then later adds something about voteparking when he'd been parked on her for almost as long with no real update to his case." ##Unvote ##Vote: scorri On the subject of Psych, his lasts posts aren't exactly good but my gut is telling me not to lynch him atm.

Voting for Eury is extremely dumb unless you want to think we're scum together. If I'm town and she's scum white-knighting my wagon* there's absolutely no reason for her to follow through with her defense on me so hard. She started gathering suspicion rather fast and all it would take for scum!Eury to avoid having the wagon build any further would be going back to some part of my posts she didn't defend and say "oh hey guys this is scummy you were right, idk anymore" and switch to null focusing on other things instead of digging herself a grave the way she is doing atm. * which I just noticed is a weird case to make when you haven't at any time said that you actually think I'm town, more like you've tried to imply that your suspicions of me still stand, Mr Prims. What is your actual read on me?

Too many posts suddenly Coasting on the wagon meaning I'm attracting all the attention and votes and you're just coasting by watching it happen.

Wow. You guys are never happy. You are constantly asking me a gazillion questions about every single read, call me scummy whenever I'm not answering some question and when I answer them then I'm padding content because my explanations outweigh my scumhunting content which is NATURAL considering that almost all of the game has something to complain about or to ask wrt me. I'm also scum apparently for being active as a consequence of having so many things to answer. Everything is a scumtell, fucking yay. There's no way I can fix anything if people are absolutely consumed by confirmation bias. I called Kay out for parking because: 1) I like D1 wagon-building analysis as a result of wanting to be able to catch scum D1, and coasting through this part of the phase is common for scum. Hell if I know what her post frequency meta is out of one game where I only saw her play D1 with a protection role. 2) I didn't find anybody else to be more likely to be scum at that point, nor now, and I wanted to push the case further with the little I had. I found most active posters to be some degree of town, and those that I didn't find town I lined up the scummy things they did in my head and found possible townie motivation behind them. Psych and Kay are the only two I've found doing things that are pro-scum and I don't see town doing. See: Poly and Randa. I'm amazed that scorri feels the need to point out my lack of a followup on Kay when there have been no posts by Kay since I made it and I actually DID follow it up with the votepark callout, whether it is invalidated by meta or not doesn't change the fact that I DID follow up on it. Suddenly coming up with "his votehop on me was bad for several reasons" as one of her only reasons to suspect me is terrible because: 1) she clearly understood my case back when it happened and admitted to being at fault. 2) she is actively avoiding giving reasons why it is bad. One should explain why things are scummy and not bad, but scorri is avoiding giving reasons for anything altogether. Not to mention that there was no excuse for that last post to not include a vote on me unless she doesn't want to be associated with my flip. I want to vote scorri but I realize that this is probably frustration speaking so I'm holding it until I cool my head a little.

I still say we lynch Kay. Her only contribution to the thread is putting down a policy lynch vote over talking about self-meta and lurking out the rest of the day until maybe deadline. Her only comments on other players are newbie chastising (which makes up over 50% of her only content post) and throwing criticism on scorri which took no effort since I had already worded that same thing myself, hell, she uses the same "noncommittal" term which I don't think has been significantly prevalent in the last few mafia games. It is literally a no effort post. I'm also fine with lynching Psych, he demonstrated having read the thread by saying I'm trying to avoid being misunderstood (which is a character trait and I do this all the time regardless of alignment), yet came up with an entirely fake reason to vote Randa. I've seen him lurking around at least twice since his last post and there's nothing else to be seen from him. Feels like he's just trying to take advantage of the wagon on loud me to coast past D1 on minimal content. Cuts, putting this out

@Shinori by --the only thing he adds onto the SB case is "waffling"-- I meant --the only thing he adds onto the SB case is "SB is waffling"-- I'm writing up another post but might have to go catch the train home before I finish it.

It's probably more correct to say "although" than "which" in that context as well. I'm so good at half-native speaking.

--Might not want to read this post unless you want to know why Randa is null for me in detail-- I liked Randa's post where he voted SB early in the game but that was pretty much it, he's been pretty null since. The only thoughts I have surrounding him are that I think Prims is being either lazy or biased when accusing Randa of being jumpy in reply to Poly when it's totally possible for a newer player like him to be town and react strongly against Poly's rage-filled attitude and personal-looking attacks. Veteran players may be used to Poly doing that kind of stuff but he probably isn't. And yeah saying that pretty much meant taking shots at the case for no reason when I don't disagree with the part of the case wrt Randa seemingly posting in reaction to things instead of having initiative (which could I also see as just being a new player going "how do i mafia" and being unsure about what to do when people aren't addressing him). There's scummy things Randa has done that don't stop being scummy in and of themselves, but as long as I can think of plausible town rationale/mindset they could be coming from I don't think it's worth voting, hence why it's not a town read anymore but not a scumread either.

Prims what do you think about the Psych thing? Off to class

Randa what's your read on Eury and kirsche? You mentioned liking what Prims brought up on them a while ago but you seem to have forgotten about them since then.

I had a snippet in that post where I noted that 3-13, bearclaw and NNR are being completely nonexistant and unreadable but I left it out because it didn't really add anything to discussion. I can understand suspecting Bearclaw above the other two, he was around for a while in ED1 unlike the other two and didn't really do jack. I'd lynch him over townreads but it would be a crapshoot and it wouldn't really give any post-flip information through interactions with other players. I'm obviously not a fan that Poet is voting me and not really looking at other people, but I'm not reading his posts as hiding scum intent, they feel more like he's struggling to contribute something into the game. Idk.

I haven't commented on the Eury thing so far because I can understand the points given against her but disagree that they necessarily make her scum. Pretty much agree with Shinori here. Although wrt Shinori it irks me that the only thing he adds onto the SB case is "waffling" when he clearly states it as such himself and only spends one sentence on each nullread (one of which was the player he was currently voting and it makes sense that he'd explain why he's switching). It certainly doesn't give me the feeling that he's abusing waffles to pad his posts if that's what you were trying to imply, so why does the waffling make him scum? Also missed this yesterday ##FoS: Psych His Randa vote is based entirely on the false claim that he jump-switched his opinion wrt SB's suggestion, painting it as a completely unexplained 180º. There's like no logical explanation for town to do this (unless they're not really playing the game, but his side-comment on me makes me feel like he was reading alright). Is there some Psych meta thing I'm missing? There's also been like half the activity rate while I was sleeping than there was the other night, which leads me to think that somebody is likely to be voteparking scum coasting past midD1 and directly into deadline. Kay fits the voteparking profile and there's scum intent to be had by sitting there (reinforcing her case on me would mean exposing herself to criticism at an important D1 juncture before consolidation) so I'm currently feeling pretty good about my Kay case/vote. Speaking of deadline, it happens at like 6-7 AM my time and it's impossible for me to be around then, I'll stick around until 1:00-1:30 AM but not much longer than that. Kay > Psych >> Poly (would lynch over null/townreads but don't think he's very likely to be scum atm, so uninterested otherwise) > rest > Eury/SB >> kirsche.

Eh I don't think he's scum atm. I've been trying to word out why for a while and scrapped the post every time it got longer than a paragraph because it started to sound really dumb. His behavior here and in Unnamed just don't look anything alike so far.

I can't find either of those games for some reason? Just link me over to whatever NOC game Poly was scum in

So I know that Poly is prone to being mislynched as town and I've cased him as scum before based on not reading and paying close attention to the people whom he was making cases on (which is something he does here as well, in the first paragraph of the post it doesn't look like he remembers I mentioned several scumspects across my last two big posts until he goes back to check on my vote), but this is different. The intent here is clearly to discredit cases on Kay, but the bolded part is directed at Kay and he questions her in a way that implies that he thinks she's scummy in the same line as he is trying to defend her. @SB Is it plausible for town!Poly to brain fart hard enough to post something like this? What does Poly!scum look like compared to Poly!town? Asking SB cause he's around but if anybody else has an answer to this I'll take it.

Poly, stop saying something is "fucking stupid" instead of explaining why it's likely to come from scum. Rage doesn't make you sound cooler and it clouds my read on you because for all I know you could be using it as an excuse to not have to actually do shit for scumhunting as scum. Insulting everything does not a case make.

wrt SB we literally posted at the same time. He just flipped town in the MotK game I mentioned I was being frustrated at because they were trying to lynch him when he was obvtown, so idk. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself in giving him a townread just because I was so confident that I was right about his alignment in this other game. I don't see anything I actively disagree with in your case but I still think Kay's blatant wagon hopping over a policy-lynch reason without addressing anything else is significantly scummier than being unmemorable. I think I also covered the Prims thing in that last big post and I have to rush to lunch and class now

Should be obvious but I forgot to mention that the annoyance stemmed from me thinking that it was your way of asking the question that was wholely responsible for the problem and that there was nothing wrong with the way that I understood it. Then I stopped thinking about who was right and who was wrong and saw that even if I thought that the way I understood it was The Correct Way given the circumstances, it would still lead to frustration to a townie who really intended to ask a different question.

Because when you wrote your reply to me and it was really ragey I started replying while annoyed about it and shortly noticed that it could just be townie frustration over replying to a different question than the one you were intending to ask. See conclusion in the guide I linked in the last post: "1. Universal tells can be strong evidence of guilt. However, it is vitally important to examine the context to see if a reasonable, pro-town rationale exists." Logically speaking you'd be null, but you're kind of leaning town because my gut tells it's more likely that it was coming from spontaneous townie frustration than calculated scum emotion tailoring (more difficult to fake). The confusion wrt different understandings of pro-scum and anti-town also reads genuine and would be kind of a shitty case to build if scum because :semantics:

I was replying to BBM atm but I don't see going point-by-point quote wars changing anybody's minds. I will answer a few things while I review a bunch of players but I don't think focusing on replying cases on me is going to do any good. If a lot of people want me to answer a few specific points of my play then I'll do it. Pedited after writing half the post because I actually did spend a significant amount of time clarifying things. Fuck me. Reads so far: SB -> probably town. Mostly due to writing style and the way he's going about asking questioning his suspects. As scum they'd sound more aggressive and here they have a hint of indecisiveness. I don't really know how to word it beyond this. I'll attempt to explain Shinori from the beginning since people are having a lot of issue with my Shinori read and the way I went about it when I dropped it. As of right know I dislike how he stretched my ED1 offhand comment on Kay as something scummy. Here's the context: Prims: "why is Shinori a better target than Kay or Randa just because he made a remark about the pagecount" Vhaltz: "Voting for Kay or Randa atm would be voting for lack of content. There's nothing to even grasp at unless you want to say Kay's Shinori vote is grasping" Shinori is either misunderstanding or misrepping what I said here by assuming I was commenting on this as something suspicious instead of something I was considering not suspicious and not worth voting over Shinori (which should be understandable in context?). I think I lean more towards it being a misunderstanding atm but the timing of the vote during the sudden wagon building stage makes me wary of scum intent being hidden in a derpy post. I'm keeping my eye on him. I've reread BBM with a cool head now and I think he's just being dumb and going for the easiest case. I still dislike that he calls my suspicion reactionary because I was clearly treating people on my wagon differently and he was the only one on my wagon I suspected, I had legit reasons to think he was BSing a case from my PoV last night until more wagon building happened while I was sleeping and it convinced me that it's likely enough that I'm just sucking this game and he doesn't necessarily have to be scum because of the case he made. @BBM, worth reading for kirsche too due to the whole anti-town/pro-scum thing. I've read scorri's recent posts and the way she immediately understood where I was coming from and admitted her mistake doesn't really sound like something scum would do? The way she's going around her suspicion on me is also very similar to the way she went around the Prims suspicion and reads genuine, I highly doubt somebody would keep doing noncommittal wagon pushes after being correctly called out on it as scum. Leaning slightly town. Eury feels town, some of the reasons she came up with to clear me were not obvious at all and pretty unlikely to come from scum white-knighting a wagon instead of an actual town perspective. You could argue that she's my scumbuddy defending me and etc but if I do end up getting lynched and flip town then you can not lynch her. Kay's vote over self-meta is scummy, she is ignoring literally all of everything else I have done in the game. There's a lot to of questionable content from me to poke at but she just decided to roll with the policy lynch-ish reasons of lynching over self-meta use. I come from a different forum where this is highly common (see: anything by Conqueror) and the lack of any attempt to explain why self-meta holds scum intent or scum mindset leads me to suspect that this is just a gratuitous wagon hop coming from scum who's seeing a talkative town get all of the heat and doesn't really have to worry about doing much to get a mislynch. Her "self meta is bad" literally just amounts to throwing out the "self-meta" term in surrounding context tailored to make it look like The Worst Offense And Scummiest Scumtell. tl;dr the way she's going about her vote is not explaining why anything I did is scummy and she's coasting on everybody else's reasons to wagon at an opportunistic juncture. ##Unvote ##Vote: Kay Mentioning Prims as still null for the sake of mentioning my read on him, although I haven't really paid that much attention to his latest posts yet. Everybody else I didn't mention is either also null or I haven't really looked into them yet. Posting this for now